Acceptable punishment in crèche?

2rkehij30qtza5

I'm in a bit of a tizz here and hoping I can bounce this off other parents to see what you all think?

I went to collect my two year old son (he's only 26 months old) this evening from crèche. I arrived at 4.45pm so it was quite dusky. I went into the crèche and noticed that the light in my son's room was turned off and it was quite dusky. I could see straight through to the yard outside and the children were all outside playing with a crèche worker.

I proceeded to walk into the room so that I could walk to the back door, which was closed, and go outside to the yard to collect my son. Mid way through the room I heard crying IN the room and I looked over to my left and there was my son, sitting on a chair in the dusky light and wearing his coat and hat.

I Immediately picked him up and cuddled him, wiping his tears away. There was nobody else in the room with him. The room has a side hallway that leads into a nappy changing area and about 30 seconds later a crèche worker came out with a mop...as though she had been in there mopping that area. I asked her why my son was by himself in a room with no light on and bawling crying. She said he had hit another child outside and was put inside on time out but that it wasn't long before I'd walked in.

Then the girl who was outside spotted me and opened the outside door, stuck her head in and said the had put him on time out as he had pushed another child...and that the door had been left open but another child must have closed it.

I didn't really say anything...I was upset myself having arrived after a days work to fund my little fella like this. I know my son us no angel and I do use time out myself the odd time at home but he is always in the same room as me and I explain why he has to take a few mins out from playing etc. I do agree with the crèche disciplining him but I'm upset he was by himself in a room in the dusky light. Now maybe the girl mopping the floor was meant to be looking after him but she was in mopping floors in other rooms.


I don't know what to think but it's not sitting right with me.

byhookorbycrook

Moved from Primary and Pre-school

ene

having worked in quite a few creches i am quite shocked by this. In any i have ever worked in there is a no time out rule, no child is to be left in a room on their own-even if just for a second and if by chance the child has really done something wrong you take them away from the situation and sit with them until they are ready to join their friends.

I would be asking the manager for their policy handbook after this incident.

rainemac

Alot of this situation is wrong. child left sitting inside in dark by himself. unless he continuously hit other child in a short space of time, so hit other kids like say 5-7 times in 5 minutes and wasnt listening at all i wouldnt do "time out". If time out was necessary, He should have been sat outside with a staff member that could supervise him at all times.

I work in a creche, our method of discipline is getting down to their level and telling them in simple language that what they did wasnt nice and it hurt other child. we would repeat this as much as needed, at his age we wouldnt really do time out unless he bit or hit a child hard with an object more than once but we would always address the incident each time. certainly child would not be sat inside on their own, and under no circumstances without supervison.

I think u need to speak to the manager, they might not necessarily realise what is going on as they may not be there that late and not realise what is happening. get a copy of their policies and procedures. they should have a behaviour management policy.
HTH

lazygal

I have a child of a similar age and IMO that age is too young for 'punishments' as they really don't know what a punishment is for. I make sure she knows hitting her brother is not ok, and she would never be put out on her own or anything like that. I would ask to speak to the manager about the age ranges of their behavior management policies and whether this incident was recorded in writing.
I don't think pushing another child deserves a punishment being imposed on a two year old. Was the other child pushed over? If our child is pushed over by a cousin we make sure she's ok, the other child says sorry and that's the end of it. I think only from age 3+ can they really understand about punishments and consequences for their actions in a constructive way.

eviltwin

I think that is a horrific way to treat a 2 yr old. Kids that young don't need punishments at all and certainly not time outs in dark rooms on their own. Its just cruel imo to leave a child who is still a baby sitting in the dark. And the fact he was alone...young children should never be left unsupervised. I would be furious to think that this was considered an acceptable punishment by anyone working with small children.

ene

also the fact that your paying for them to treat your child like this.... i would be worried whether if you had shown up 10-20 minutes later would your son still be there or if not would the staff member tell you what occurred.

indigo twist

I would be horrified by this. For me, it would be enough to withdraw my child, demand my deposit back (bringing it to small claims court if necessary), and find an alternative.

You are trusting these people with your precious child. A child that young should never be left unsupervised like that. It's at best neglectful; even cruel.

If they're happy to have you (or indeed any other mothers/fathers/whoever) walk in to find him alone like that, at the end of the day, when they're actually expecting you - who knows what goes on during the day when no parents are around?

Complete breach of trust, to me.

lazygal

I've just thought about this more and to be honest I wouldn't be happy leaving my child there and would never trust them again. I might sound dramatic but after the Prime Time expose on crèches I don't think you can be too careful. As another poster said if this happened earlier in the day would you have been informed? Is this standard practice? How do the staff deal with more serious incidents with older children?

Rubberchikken

I think its unacceptable correction for any age.

Speak to the manager. State your opinion calmly.

Leaving a child in a darken room alone is not a proper correction.
If he did something wrong, he should have been told it was unacceptable, kept beside an adult maybe while the others were playing, and asked to apologise to the kid he hit.

He'a 2 years old for goodness sakes. What were they thinking:(

eviltwin

I wouldn't be happy having him stay there either. I'm looking at my son who is 4 and I know he would be terrified left alone in the dark on his own, for a child of 2, I can't even begin to get my head around someone doing that. I would be looking for another option.

monflat

The staff even were not clear as to what your child done. Hit or pushed??
As to the confusion that no one was minding him.
The girl mopping or the girl outside.
Even still it's what that age group do.
And to arrive to your child crying and in a darkening room is just terrible at that age they begin to fear dark etc


Also what happened if he choked on something etc...


I'd get your ammunition ready tomorrow and let fire.
It's totally irresponsible.
What happens at other times one would wonder.

jjpep

Just to echo whats been kinda said already - pull your kid out of there. What they've done is in no way acceptable.

indigo twist

Also, I'd be curious as to whether 4.45 is your usual collection time, or is it usually later than that? And if the creche worker in question would be aware of his usual collection times?

2rkehij30qtza5

indigo twist wrote: »

Also, I'd be curious as to whether 4.45 is your usual collection time, or is it usually later than that? And if the creche worker in question would be aware of his usual collection times?

I usually collect around 5.30pm.
I left work early today because I had this weird feeling that my son needed me...how strange is that?

ene

op is the creche a chain or a small one- i wonder what kind of staff turnover may be or how skilled the staff are... i would be flagging this immediately i would not be taking any excuses. If there is cctv cameras in the room i would be asking to view them for your peace of mind that this is an isolated occurrence.

I know when i worked in what would be considered one of the top creches in south dublin i complained to the manager having seen a occurrence similar to this happen in the room i worked in. The manager said she would speak to the staff member involved but nothing was done about it. I had to go higher up after seeing the same staff member repeat this with another child. It took most of my will power to get this person disciplined and they were eventually let go.... just be prepared for a fight to get the result you want.

I would write down exactly what happened today, what staff members are involved and what you want to gain by talking to the manager- as in immediate removal from creche or disciplinary action for staff members- i wouldn't leave the premises until i had the result i wanted.

2rkehij30qtza5

I don't know who the manager is!! Previous manager finished up last week and we haven't been told who the new manager is!!

ETA: I am just so not happy about this whole thing..I'm so upset since picking him up this eve

lazygal

Waylon Fierce Animal wrote: »

I've spoken to my husband and he thinks we should just speak with the girls themselves (the minders who were there this evening). He is afraid if we start reporting them to the manager that we will come across as neurotic. Incidentally I don't know who the manager is!! Previous manager finished up last week and we haven't been told who the new manager is!!

ETA: I am just so not happy about this whole thing..I'm so upset since picking him up this eve

If you are not happy your child will pick up on this. I couldn't give a toss if someone thinks I'm neurotic. My children are my top priority and I often think in years gone by parents were too lax about the things done to their children because they thought this was just how things were.
Think about this carefully. Will you be worried something else will happen? Will you rest easy in work tomorrow knowing he'll be in good hands? I'm not 100% happy with my minder, and no one I know it because no one will do things like you will. But I trust her, I know my children are in good, safe hands and the minor things I'm not mad about aren't enough to put me off sending my child in everyday.

ene

honestly nothing will be done if you just say it to the people in the room... if anything (speaking from experience) the people in the room will end up acting funny with you and any communication will be definitely be more forced.

I really think this needs to be addressed to the manager- if anything if this happened to another child you would want the manager to be informed- also this may not be the first incidence

2rkehij30qtza5

ene wrote: »

honestly nothing will be done if you just say it to the people in the room... if anything (speaking from experience) the people in the room will end up acting funny with you and any communication will be definitely be more forced.

I really think this needs to be addressed to the manager- if anything if this happened to another child you would want the manager to be informed- also this may not be the first incidence

It's true. I need to stand up for my son who has no voice for himself. I can't believe they did this to him, poor little mite.

monflat

Just go in ask for manager or person in charge there has to be someone more senior there.
Address your concerns pronto.

Cienciano

I have 2 kids in creche, I'd definitely be annoyed with that. Maybe not to the extent of taking the child out. But if it's a chain creche they probably have all their rules written out, I'd definitely be asking for them and looking for explanations on why a carer did it.

Molzer2

This is a serious breach of trust, I hate the regime, I hate the way they staff turf the kids out in the dark in November so the people who were minding the kids can clean place up. Clean up should happen when child minding finishes. The poor child didn't deserve punishment, far too young altogether! If the childminders concentrated on childminding rather than cleaning the incident, whatever it was may not have been so "serious". I feel sorry for you, it's something you could do well without. The staff will be able to tick the box in the form re the clean-up, why was your fella inside in a coat and cap, this is probably to facilitate their tidy up rather than his comfort, he'd probably have been left in the coat and cap until you came for him at you usual time?,:mad:

froggie76

Unacceptable punishment, actually not appropriate punishment for such a young child(or any child), if the outcome of a punishment is to instill in a child that the behavior is unacceptable or wrong, then all this punishment did was frighten and upset him...
I have to ask though, how did you get into the room???

2rkehij30qtza5

froggie76 wrote: »

Unacceptable punishment, actually not appropriate punishment for such a young child(or any child), if the outcome of a punishment is to instill in a child that the behavior is unacceptable or wrong, then all this punishment did was frighten and upset him...
I have to ask though, how did you get into the room???

The door was wide open between the hallway and the room is at the end of this hallway. He could have wandered off through the crèche with nobody watching him :mad:

abff

Totally unacceptable. If it was my child, I wouldn't leave him there another day. And I would seriously consider reporting the creche to the appropriate authority.

froggie76

The door was wide open between the hallway and the room is at the end of this hallway. He could have wandered off through the crèche with nobody watching him

Is it that way normally?

the_syco

Waylon Fierce Animal wrote: »

Mid way through the room I heard crying IN the room and I looked over to my left and there was my son, sitting on a chair in the dusky light and wearing his coat and hat.

Sounds like a "time out" room for a disruptive puppy, tbh!

Also, unsupervised kid in a badly lit room? Their insurance must be astronomical!

Oh, and how many people did you come across between entering the place, and encountering your son?

monflat wrote: »

And to arrive to your child crying and in a darkening room is just terrible at that age they begin to fear dark etc

This. If he associates being left in the dark alone, and punishment, ye may find it hard to leave him go asleep at night

abff

Do you have anyone you could leave your son with on a temporary basis for a couple of days while you find a new creche? Unless you can speak to someone tomorrow and get total reassurance that this was an isolated incident that couldn't possibly recur, I don't see how you could feel comfortable leaving your son there.

Murray007

I want to give an example of how children can be effected by this kind of thing.

My son was eight, very outgoing and slept out in one of three friends houses at his request at least once a week. He vomited one night at a friend house and wanted to go home. The mother was out in the car collecting teenagers from a disco so the Dad made him go to bed. He vomited again late in the night and asked to go home again, the dad in the house drove him to our house, obviously he was annoyed cause he pulled up at the house, in a very rural area, let him out and drove off. The house lights were all off and it left him in the complete dark. We heard the car pull up and started to get dressed, our son panicked started banging on the front door then the back door and because we were getting dressed headed off in panic to run down the road to make it to the neighbours which is over a mile away. We didn't know who had been at the door and despite being unsettled headed back to bed. The neighbour arrived up a few minutes later with our son.

People do stupid things with others children that they would never do with their own, there is no emotional attachment. My son didn't go out anywhere for three years after that without us. He was socially crippled by it for that period of time. Thank goodness he is now back to his normal self.

It is no small thing what has happened to your son in professional childcare. Treat it in that way. Tell the child care provider and say you will be making a report to the health authority then look for another provider.

Barely There

Murray007 wrote: »

I want to give an example of how children can be effected by this kind of thing.

My son was eight, very outgoing and slept out in one of three friends houses at his request at least once a week. He vomited one night at a friend house and wanted to go home. The mother was out in the car collecting teenagers from a disco so the Dad made him go to bed. He vomited again late in the night and asked to go home again, the dad in the house drove him to our house, obviously he was annoyed cause he pulled up at the house, in a very rural area, let him out and drove off. The house lights were all off and it left him in the complete dark. We heard the car pull up and started to get dressed, our son panicked started banging on the front door then the back door and because we were getting dressed headed off in panic to run down the road to make it to the neighbours which is over a mile away. We didn't know who had been at the door and despite being unsettled headed back to bed. The neighbour arrived up a few minutes later with our son.

People do stupid things with others children that they would never do with their own, there is no emotional attachment. My son didn't go out anywhere for three years after that without us. He was socially crippled by it for that period of time. Thank goodness he is now back to his normal self.

It is no small thing what has happened to your son in professional childcare. Treat it in that way. Tell the child care provider and say you will be making a report to the health authority then look for another provider.

He left an 8 year old in the dark and drove off?

Honestly, I don't believe in violence, but I would have kicked the **** out of that arsehole.