Value in Cattle

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

I need to build myself a shed so I can get my hands on some slurry. I can't see how it would be anyway economical to put out 100 units N 10P and 25K from chemical fert.

I am lucky farm is squareish and spreading slurry is not a huge issue. I be slow to spread in present weather for another few weeks. I am lucky in that I have good storage. Slurry is not an answer reseeding is the key.

Fertlizer is away cheaper than ration. It is all relative to stocking level. Is it better to make 200/head at 2.2LU or 300/head at 0.7LU/HA. It is all relative to land and system.

Robson99

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Slurry is not an answer reseeding is the key.

Would agree totally with this statement. The quantity of grass produced by reseeded fields compared to old grasses is unreal. Also the response to fertiliser is far greater in reseeded ground.
Reseeding and soil testing are two of the most important yearly requirements in any farming system

Milked out

Robson99 wrote: »

Would agree totally with this statement. The quantity of grass produced by reseeded fields compared to old grasses is unreal. Also the response to fertiliser is far greater in reseeded ground.
Reseeding and soil testing are two of the most important yearly requirements in any farming system

Soil testing Defo is the most important. On the reseeding if paddocks aren't performing then it is one part of getting them right however I was at a farm last week where they have been measuring grass for the last 20+ years and I said the same as you to him and his response was that reseeding isn't always what's required, he has a field reseeded 25 years ago that has matched paddocks reseeded in the last number of years for grass grown. He doesn't know why that paddock is performing so well but his farm is predominantly index 3 and 4 for p and k which is the big thing really

Bullocks

AP2014 wrote: »

I need to build myself a shed so I can get my hands on some slurry. I can't see how it would be anyway economical to put out 100 units N 10P and 25K from chemical fert.

Ask around for slurry , if you're like me and in the west there are a few lads that never have anywhere dry enough to travel with their own stuff and will be glad to get a few loads out of the tank to keep the pressure off now for another month or two .
Dont fall into the trap of spending more on the farm than its worth .

Robson99

Some of the grass seed variety 25 years ago were excellent however a lot were poor. But your right. Keeping the indexes at 3 and 4 is vital

darragh_haven

I was at the "profiting frim soil fertility" talk in the Horse&jockey yesterday afternoon and all spearkers said that soil PH is the most important element of soil fertility. No point doing anything else in reseeded or old ground until you PH is sorted to 6.2 or 6.3. Grass groth and palability is improved and also response to any fertilisers is greatly increased

farawaygrass

Robson99 wrote: »

Would agree totally with this statement. The quantity of grass produced by reseeded fields compared to old grasses is unreal. Also the response to fertiliser is far greater in reseeded ground.
Reseeding and soil testing are two of the most important yearly requirements in any farming system

If you were planning on reseeding a field, say in march/April, but your soil tests are saying it's low in p, would you put off reseeding for a year and try and correct soil fertility first, or reseed regardless and stay working on fertility?

onyerbikepat

darragh_haven wrote: »

I was at the "profiting frim soil fertility" talk in the Horse&jockey yesterday afternoon and all spearkers said that soil PH is the most important element of soil fertility. No point doing anything else in reseeded or old ground until you PH is sorted to 6.2 or 6.3. Grass groth and palability is improved and also response to any fertilisers is greatly increased

I put out lime last autumn and I can really see the results already. I got the land tested and it was as I expected. If you handed me the soil test results, I could tell you which field each result was for. The ground gets very mossy and deadlooking when severly lacking in lime. P K indices were circa 3 on all fields, so that wasn't the issue.

Robson99

farawaygrass wrote: »

If you were planning on reseeding a field, say in march/April, but your soil tests are saying it's low in p, would you put off reseeding for a year and try and correct soil fertility first, or reseed regardless and stay working on fertility?

I would reseed regardless. Put out 3 bags of 10, 10, 20 at reseeding, and lime also.
Fertilise with 10, 10, 20 or 18, 6, 12 until p&k rectified

keep going

So did I pick the right year to keep a few extra cattle around

darragh_haven

keep going wrote: »

So did I pick the right year to keep a few extra cattle around

You did. I still can see what is driving the madness tho. Sell them now and we'll go on the beer for a week. ;-)

welton john

sold two friesan twin bullocks today, 15 months old, bought for e45 each as sucks, weighed 388 made 760, might have done better keeping them but theyr'e now goin to pay for a drainage job this week

keep going

darragh_haven wrote: »

You did. I still can see what is driving the madness tho. Sell them now and we'll go on the beer for a week. ;-)

I dont know abou getting aweek out of them but we d have a few night out of them

AP2014

keep going wrote: »

So did I pick the right year to keep a few extra cattle around

You won't know until you sell them.

Willfarman

keep going wrote: »

So did I pick the right year to keep a few extra cattle around

I would say yes. Easy on the Cuban cigars now now tiger!

blue5000

AP2014 wrote: »

I need to build myself a shed so I can get my hands on some slurry. I can't see how it would be anyway economical to put out 100 units N 10P and 25K from chemical fert.

Has to be 'POST OF THE DAY':pac:

Reggie.

Sold two AA bullocks today. See below

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Sold two AA bullocks today. See below

Great prices Reggie, poor weights for their ages. Were they just on silage? You have them from calves?

Trade seems to be flying everywhere. How were light bullocks 250kg to 300kg?

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Great prices Reggie, poor weights for their ages. Were they just on silage? You have them from calves?

Trade seems to be flying everywhere. How were light bullocks 250kg to 300kg?

No light bullocks around today.

Ah id be happy at hitting 550kg with bucket fed bullocks at 21 months tbh

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

No light bullocks around today.

Ah id be happy at hitting 550kg with bucket fed bullocks at 21 months tbh

Were they bucket fed aax? The 495kg seems poor but decent price if aax.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Were they bucket fed aax? The 495kg seems poor but decent price if aax.

Yep

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

Were they bucket fed aax? The 495kg seems poor but decent price if aax.

I would not consider it a poor weight for an AA. Have seen them gain as low as 300 grams/day. They were May born calves so are only 20 months. If you subtract there birth weight he has gained 0.75kgs/day since birth and have gone through two winters. Late spring calves often struggle as lad often do not do them as well and withdraw milk too soon.

They left a few bob.

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would not consider it a poor weight for an AA. Have seen them gain as low as 300 grams/day. They were May born calves so are only 20 months. If you subtract there birth weight he has gained 0.75kgs/day since birth and have gone through two winters. Late spring calves often struggle as lad often do not do them as well and withdraw milk too soon.

They left a few bob.

Question is would two continentals have left as much? 2 winters is expensive, be interesting to see if he had two continentals bought at the same time and compare costs.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Question is would two continentals have left as much? 2 winters is expensive, be interesting to see if he had two continentals bought at the same time and compare costs.

Cont calves would have easily cost an extra 200 or even 300 euro. Be hard to make that up again at the end

darragh_haven

My dad said he wouldn't even bother going to the mart tomorrow in skibbereen as prices are just mental. We dont need to buy for a month or 2 but would pick up a few each week if there was any value.
We agitated slurry this evening in anticipation of him slurry spreading tomorrow.

AP2014

darragh_haven wrote: »

My dad said he wouldn't even bother going to the mart tomorrow in skibbereen as prices are just mental. We dont need to buy for a month or 2 but would pick up a few each week if there was any value.
We agitated slurry this evening in anticipation of him slurry spreading tomorrow.

Holding off myself for a month or two as well, jesus lads seem to think cattle will disappear in the next few weeks.

J DEERE

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would not consider it a poor weight for an AA. Have seen them gain as low as 300 grams/day. They were May born calves so are only 20 months. If you subtract there birth weight he has gained 0.75kgs/day since birth and have gone through two winters. Late spring calves often struggle as lad often do not do them as well and withdraw milk too soon.

They left a few bob.

+1
I'd be a happy with those weights and prices for late spring bucket fed angus calves.

keep going

AP2014 wrote: »

Holding off myself for a month or two as well, jesus lads seem to think cattle will disappear in the next few weeks.

What about all these lads with a heap of bales saying they are not going to get caught like this again paying for plastic and contractor at least cattle dont burn diesel.i thought this was going to happen since the autumn

J DEERE

AP2014 wrote: »

Question is would two continentals have left as much? 2 winters is expensive, be interesting to see if he had two continentals bought at the same time and compare costs.

Believe it or not it doesn't break the bank to keep weanlings over the winter. I'm figuring that the May calves would have been 180-200kg going in at housing.

With 1kg meal they would have ate about half a bale of silage each per month assuming 30% DM. It costs anywhere up to 17/18 bale to make. 30kg ration @ 240 ton works out at roughly €8 per month which they get up to six weeks before turn out Including dosing etc cost would be around €20/month to keep. These animals benefit from early turn out as they are light and minimal damage to ground so would be out early March weather permitting so say 4 months housed would work out at €72 to feed for 1st winter

Assuming 350-400kg housing for second winter they would eat a bale a month along with 2kg of ration. Using same prices it would be 140-150 to keep for 2nd winter up to his point of sale. Granted they may have got extra meal before sale, add say an extra €30 brings the cost to €250 total winter cost over two years. Subtracted from his sale price it was worth his while keeping them

J DEERE

darragh_haven wrote: »

My dad said he wouldn't even bother going to the mart tomorrow in skibbereen as prices are just mental. We dont need to buy for a month or 2 but would pick up a few each week if there was any value.
We agitated slurry this evening in anticipation of him slurry spreading tomorrow.

Smart thing would be to wait and see what the fate of this years dairy bred calves born this year will be. If they are shipped then buy but if they are being bought by irish farmers in speculation of good prices two years down the line there will be a repeat of last autumn

nhg

Reggie. wrote: »

Sold two AA bullocks today. See below

When you brought them so far would you not have considered finishing them for factory

Reggie.

nhg wrote: »

When you brought them so far would you not have considered finishing them for factory

My lack of land doesn't allow me to bring them any further than around 20-24 months

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

Question is would two continentals have left as much? 2 winters is expensive, be interesting to see if he had two continentals bought at the same time and compare costs.

Hard to see at most they be 50kgs heavier and BB would be the same. Reggie cattle are may born so lad could keep them until mid November. They be slow to go over fat on grass and could be killing up near the 400kg mark a strong price would leave a margin

J DEERE wrote: »

Believe it or not it doesn't break the bank to keep weanlings over the winter. I'm figuring that the May calves would have been 180-200kg going in at housing.

With 1kg meal they would have ate about half a bale of silage each per month assuming 30% DM. It costs anywhere up to 17/18 bale to make. 30kg ration @ 240 ton works out at roughly €8 per month which they get up to six weeks before turn out Including dosing etc cost would be around €20/month to keep. These animals benefit from early turn out as they are light and minimal damage to ground so would be out early March weather permitting so say 4 months housed would work out at €72 to feed for 1st winter

Assuming 350-400kg housing for second winter they would eat a bale a month along with 2kg of ration. Using same prices it would be 140-150 to keep for 2nd winter up to his point of sale. Granted they may have got extra meal before sale, add say an extra €30 brings the cost to €250 total winter cost over two years. Subtracted from his sale price it was worth his while keeping them

I have priced weanlongs at 1 euro/ day on silage, 2kgs of ration and mins and vits taking away ration 6 weeks pre turn out costs 110 euro for 120 day winter. Stores I keep on silage alone cost about a euro a day as well. If I fed them ration I be hitting 1.4/day. if you were selling now winter costs would be as JD said 250 euro. Not sure what Reggie paid for them but he is a sharpshooter when he buys. 100 last year for grass, 120 the year before for grass, ration and milk powder, 70 euro for vet, losses, etc. Make it a round 500 euro plus calf cost.

simx

J DEERE wrote: »

Smart thing would be to wait and see what the fate of this years dairy bred calves born this year will be. If they are shipped then buy but if they are being bought by irish farmers in speculation of good prices two years down the line there will be a repeat of last autumn

Have a feeling it'll be the later part of that statement, father says to me once-when cattle are dear all farmers want them, when they're for nothing nobody wants them and if selling they'll throw them away, If too many bought this spring, like you said a repeat of what happened with the Bull scenario spring '13 and nobody will want cattle then

Reggie.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Hard to see at most they be 50kgs heavier and BB would be the same. Reggie cattle are may born so lad could keep them until mid November. They be slow to go over fat on grass and could be killing up near the 400kg mark a strong price would leave a margin



I have priced weanlongs at 1 euro/ day on silage, 2kgs of ration and mins and vits taking away ration 6 weeks pre turn out costs 110 euro for 120 day winter. Stores I keep on silage alone cost about a euro a day as well. If I fed them ration I be hitting 1.4/day. if you were selling now winter costs would be as JD said 250 euro. Not sure what Reggie paid for them but he is a sharpshooter when he buys. 100 last year for grass, 120 the year before for grass, ration and milk powder, 70 euro for vet, losses, etc. Make it a round 500 euro plus calf cost.

Nice dig Pudsey

Paid 250 for them as calves and they were out wintered this year and so far them two plus 6 yearlings ate around 6 bales of silage

TITANIUM.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Hard to see at most they be 50kgs heavier and BB would be the same.

Normally never disagree with you puds but you must have bee burnt sometime by some badly bred continentals.
Continental Weanlings I sell at 12 months would be hitting them weights. Let alone nearly 2 years old.

Reggie.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Normally never disagree with you puds but you must have bee burnt sometime by some badly bred continentals.
Continental Weanlings I sell at 12 months would be hitting them weights. Let alone nearly 2 years old.

I think he means if they were bucket fed and not on a cow. There does be a big difference on size with the two

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Nice dig Pudsey

Paid 250 for them as calves and they were out wintered this year and so far them two plus 6 yearlings ate around 6 bales of silage

To be fair I don't think Pudsey was having a DIG at anyone. He was giving some very interesting prices. So gross for your 2 bullocks was €2340 less the costs going with Pudseys if you are happy with them and your buying value leaves €840 profit.

I consider that decent. But lads here will say the risk and work involved getting a calf to this stage; dehorning, castration, bucket feeding, dosing a few times, day in mart for 2 animals etc. Alot of labour and holding for 2 winters in this system.

I made 300 a head for 7 months last year buying continentals no wintering or major labour. You made €420 a head for 2 winterings and a lot of labour. That's why I was just asking about the continentals v AAX. Now saying this I never bought as cheap last year or sold as well. Won't happen this year.

As Pudsey says there is no flies on you when it comes to buying. I know you will clean up with the 6 yearlings you have as well compared to lads like me trying to go out and buy this year.

Look if I was at home and had time I think I would be at your system or maybe something similar of buying very light weanlings in October and seeing them over the winter on grass or a bit of hay.

Nice job though.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

To be fair I don't think Pudsey was having a DIG at anyone. .

Don't read into that too deeply AP. Unknown to you there was an inside joke in that post.

Kovu

Reggie. wrote: »

Don't read into that too deeply AP. Unknown to you there was an inside joke in that post.

Pudsey's a sharp one isn't he

Reggie.

Kovu wrote: »

Pudsey's a sharp one isn't he

Damn you puds....:D
You've brought them all out of hiding now

Farmer Pudsey

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Normally never disagree with you puds but you must have bee burnt sometime by some badly bred continentals.
Continental Weanlings I sell at 12 months would be hitting them weights. Let alone nearly 2 years old.

I was talking about bucket fed Cont in general I expect them no more than 50kgs ahead of good AA if treated the same. BB would only be same weight and as AP said about some SIX I was putting him on to they tend to sell no better than AA and some not as good. I bought a SIX was heaviest of a bunch i bought same day in mart last May. Was a good bullock but all the rest are as good if not better thyan him now.

A suckler bred is a totally different animal.

Sami23

Kovu wrote: »

Pudsey's a sharp one isn't he

'Sharp' as a good chopper balers knife :pac:

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Don't read into that too deeply AP. Unknown to you there was an inside joke in that post.

Ah ok missed that, this bucket fed calf thing sounds like work, whether it's aax or continental.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Ah ok missed that, this bucket fed calf thing sounds like work, whether it's aax or continental.

For about 10 weeks you spent about a half hour a day feeding and the likes. Throw an eye the odd time in between to for illness. Great feeling rearing calves tho and I love it tbh

After that I spend about 15 mins looking/feeding animals a day. Do be in the FIL farm after that. Spend most hours just guntering around the yard and machinery in the summer but the animals take up very little time with me. Just if you do any jobs like fencing or anything take your time and do it right and then it's done for a long time

Farmer Pudsey

Did calves myself and used to carry to slaughter. If you can look after them and have a good eye there is always money out of them. There is a bit of work if you are buying numbers. My loss rate was about 3% (one calf in 30) and one a bit stunted maybe. However I have not got enough sheds around the house to manage them and farm is too far away to get there morning and evening.

Last year would have been a great year to buy Friesians say at 80 yoyo's each if they were 350kgs you get 650 and maybe a bit with it for them now. Not a lot of cost with them bag of milk powder and a couple bags of calf ration and they be strong enough to go on a good quality ration for the summer. Even allowing a bale of straw/calf comes to 75 euro/calf and 5 euro for losses. Another10o euro for the rest of the summer and you have a flaking Calf in November to house

onyerbikepat

I know a guy that bought around 150 Friesian bull calves last spring. He hadn't a Friesian in the place for the last 20 years, I'd say.

larrymiller

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I know a guy that bought around 150 Friesian bull calves last spring. He hadn't a Friesian in the place for the last 20 years, I'd say.

What will he do with them? Squeeze em or bulls?

onyerbikepat

larrymiller wrote: »

What will he do with them? Squeeze em or bulls?

Don't know.

Bullocks

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Don't know.

I'd say if he got rid now he would be as happy as he will be with the prices that are going . That's a fair few calves to feed , did he rear them in batches ?