McGregor vs Siver on BT Sports 19th Jan. Prelims: Midnight. Main Card: 3am

yourdeadwright

Also i seen himself and that Cm punk chap haven words on twitter,
Could that be a first fight for Cm punk ? a guy on a 3 fight win streak that Cm Punk has a chance aginst ?

MartyMcFly84

I don't think people realise the level a UFC fighter is at.

Cathal was the Cage Warriors Welterweight champ. Essentially the best professional welterweight in Europe out side of the UFC. He has beaten every pro in Europe put in front of him, including good strikers like Che Mills.

Cathals hands are bad, particularly for the level he is at, but lets put in context. He would mangle most amateur fighters in his division. Let alone a guy who has not even fought once and is a blue belt? CM does not have a striking background either and thinks grappling is his strong point.

This is where Cathal is strongest. I would not give CM a round to be honest.

Beaner1

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

What exactly is a failed rugby player?

Somebody that wanted to be pro but never got there.

rolexeagle1

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

What exactly is a failed rugby player?

Didnt make any of the academy teams even though his class mates Cian Healy and Ian Keatley did, this is when he turned to MMA. he has said this before in numerous interviews.

mailburner

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I don't think people realise the level a UFC fighter is at.

Cathal was the Cage Warriors Welterweight champ. Essentially the best professional welterweight in Europe out side of the UFC. He was beaten every pro in Europe put in front of him, including good strikers like Che Mills.

che mills had zero take down defence though
it was embarrassing to watch

DeVore

I *do* think they might feed Cathal to CM... and I think it might be a horrible mistake for them! If Cathal beats him (and say what you like, he's not been beaten in what, 11 fights?) that's a HUGE feather in his cap. Its also a disaster for CM and the UFC.

Actually, I would totally buy that card.

MartyMcFly84

che mills had zero take down defence though
it was embarrassing to watch

You could also say Cathal has very effective take downs. But seems like you are a glass is half empty kind of guy.

My point in mentioning Che Mills is that some people are saying as soon as he faces a decent striker yada yada yada.

mailburner

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

You could also say Cathal has very effective take downs. But seems like you are a glass is half empty kind of guy.

My point in mentioning Che Mills is that some people are saying as soon as he faces a decent striker yada yada yada.

effective take downs against a guy with zero take down defence, fair enough

I think spencer is a better striker than mills yada yada yada

MartyMcFly84

effective take downs against a guy with zero take down defence, fair enough

Can you tell me how in many of Cathal's fights he has not taken his opponent down? Surely they cannot all have zero take down defence....

mailburner

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Can you tell me how in many of Cathal's fights he has not taken his opponent down? Surely that cannot all have zero take down defence....

I am referring to mills and mills only


he definitely over achieved in beating spencer imo but fair play to him for
winning three on the bounce
id have said a year back that cathal winning 3 ufc bouts would have been next
to impossible

MartyMcFly84

I am referring to mills and mills only

Ok well my point was to clarify his take downs are effective against people with take down defence also. So it makes your point kind of moot.

mailburner

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Ok well my point was to clarify his take downs are effective against people with take down defence also. So it makes your point kind of moot.

yeah
fighters with average tdd


so it makes your point kind of moot yada yada yada

yourdeadwright

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I don't think people realise the level a UFC fighter is at.

Cathal was the Cage Warriors Welterweight champ. Essentially the best professional welterweight in Europe out side of the UFC. He has beaten every pro in Europe put in front of him, including good strikers like Che Mills.

Cathals hands are bad, particularly for the level he is at, but lets put in context. He would mangle most amateur fighters in his division. Let alone a guy who has not even fought once and is a blue belt? CM does not have a striking background either and thinks grappling is his strong point.

This is where Cathal is strongest. I would not give CM a round to be honest.

Id be inclined to say the other way ,that striking in the UFC is not nearly as good or at the level it's made out to be, People like JDS are made out to be world class strikers when they just simply are not ,

MartyMcFly84

yeah
fighters with average tdd

You have a good functional knowledge of take down defence do you? Glad you could rate all of his previous opponents defensive abilities like that. I can see basically you don't want to acknowledge his strengths. Its a bit sad really.

MartyMcFly84

Id be inclined to say the other way ,that striking in the UFC is not nearly as good or at the level it's made out to be, People like JDS are made out to be world class strikers when they just simply are not

I never made the point that striking in the UFC is particularly high level. I was simply stating for the level he is at his hands are not good. That is not to say he is in there with Ramon Dekker.

Generally in MMA none of the aspects are as high as world level in individual martial arts. Most high level MMA fighters would not last long in K1 or vice versa in Olympic wrestling, Judo or high level BJJ.

yourdeadwright

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I never made the point that striking in the UFC is particularly high level. I was simply stating for the level he is at his hands are not good. That is not to say he is in there with Ramon Dekker.

Generally in MMA none of the aspects are as high as world level in individual martial arts. Most high level MMA fighters would not last long in K1 or vice versa in Olympic wrestling, Judo or high level BJJ.

Sorry i thought that's what you ment when you said people don;t realise the high level a UFC fighter is at my bad,

Do people think Cathal would have got another chance after tuff if it wasn't for McGregor ? I know he's won 3 in row but they haven''t up his competion at all and he looks worse each time,

mailburner

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

You have a good functional knowledge of take down defence do you? Glad you could rate all of his previous opponents defensive abilities like that. I can see basically you don't want to acknowledge his strengths. Its a bit sad really.

I watch fights and a lot of his
Its right in front of you if you open your eyes


his strengths, well I thought it was obvious what his strengths are but theres no point arguing with a fanboy

He is tough
can take down opponents with average tdd
beat good strikers like che mills lol
that's where it ends...just my opinion of course

Lenin Skynard

I think this Pendred rabble is a bit over the top. We all know going into his fights that he has a sloppy style and he's slow so he's not the easiest on the eye. But there seems to be massive outrage about it like as if it was a complete robbery.

I just watched it back there this afternoon and he most certainly won the first, second was close and you could have given it to Pendred, third I'd have given to Spencer but it wasn't one-sided at all.

On every other forum I looked at, people were absolutely foaming at the mouth about it and whoever is editing his wikipedia page practically wrote a paragraph about how much of a robbery it was.

It was the same in his last fight which I thought he clearly won, media outlets and fan forums were calling it a daylight robbery. I really think that Rogan's commentary sways a lot of people and I think that Pendred's style makes spectators root against him. I find all this criticism a bit harsh on the guy.

MartyMcFly84

Do people think Cathal would have got another chance after tuff if it wasn't for McGregor?

Generally most fighters in TUF get another pop to prove themselves as long as they don't do anything stupid in the show. Cathal made it to the semi finals so was going to get another shot regardless of Conor's sucess.

Of course Conor being successful has helped shine a light on SBG and maybe the UFC would give fighters from SBG a chance a head of a less well know gym.

MartyMcFly84

I watch fights and a lot of his
Its right in front of you if you open your eyes


his strengths, well I thought it was obvious what his strengths are but theres no point arguing with a fanboy

Well I have fought MMA professionally and I have trained with Cathal numerous times. I am well aware where his strengths and weakness lie. I believe I am being fair and objective.

I don't think I would be the best "fanboy" if I was saying his hands are not good. It is an honest assessment, however so is saying his take downs are very effective, and as a professional fighter competing in the UFC he would more than likely mangle someone like CM punk who has not competed in any martial art at any decent level, or has ever competed in amateur MMA.

yourdeadwright

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Well I have fought MMA professionally and I have trained with Cathal numerous times. I am well aware where his strengths and weakness lie. I believe I am being fair and objective.

I don't think I would be the best "fanboy" if I was saying his hands are not good. It is an honest assessment, however so is saying his take downs are very effective, and as a professional fighter competing in the UFC he would more than likely mangle someone like CM punk who has not competed in any martial art at any decent level, or has ever competed in amateur MMA.

Im not disagreeing with anything you said, but if they don't give CMsomeone like Cathal who do they give him ?





I think Cathal's perfect, he's on a 3 streak win so has creditability,but at the same time isn't preforming very well so CM has much chance ofwinning as he does against anyone else in the division ,





So if CM punks win's he beats a guy on a win streak but if he loses helost against a guy on a 3 fight UFC win streak so that doesn't sound to badeither,seem's better business than putting him in against someone who’s neverfought in the UFC or against some one who's legit top fighter,

Fromvert

CM Punk will fight a guy you've never heard of with a 0-0, 1-0, 0-1, 1-1 etc record

Pendred would fold him up and beat the piss out of him and no commission would allow it anyway.

Oregano_State

I'll admit I know feck all about boxing except for being able to identify when someone is doing it well and when someone isn't. Obviously Pendred is in the second category at the moment. Is there anyone here who knows if it's possible (or have seen someone do this) to get to a decent level of fluid striking and head movement if you only start working on it in your twenties, i.e., do we have any hope of seeing Pendred shore up this massive hole in his game in the short to medium term?

I'm not talking CMcG levels of striking, but say, getting to the level Spencer showed the last night?

MartyMcFly84

Im not disagreeing with anything you said, but if they don't give CMsomeone like Cathal who do they give him ?

Why not stick him in the TUF house? They did that with Kimbo and it was found out pretty quick that he is not UFC level. Let him prove himself that way.

DeVore

Like any martial art or indeed any motor-neuron-based-skill boxing can be learned at any age. Its just going to be easier to do at a younger age. Think Piano!

I'm 45, I took up Muay Thai 4 years ago and I sucked hard at it. Ok, I've been in a few fights in my earlier life and discovered that I have a hellova right cross, but learning boxing is a lot lot more than learning how to throw a hard punch. You can learn the technical stuff relatively easily, but then you have to train the reflexes so that they become ... well, reflexive. It took easily 6 months for me to reflexively move my hand to guard a hook without thinking about it or freaking out. Then you have to marry all of that with the technical stuff and the movement and the reading the opponent and the strategic awareness etc.

So the answer to your question is absolutely. Cathal could learn to box in 6 months of hard training at it. He's young, he's free to train all day and he's got the people to teach him (presumeably). If I can learn to box at 45 he can learn at 25

Besides, we've seen people with horrible hands come back and show real serious improvement

yourdeadwright

Its mad because Cathal has lost just once in his last 16 fights and that was at middle weight,
He's certainly a big strong tuff dude,
Does anyone know who his striking coach is ?
Im sure in training he looks way better striking and just forget's it and brawls when he's in there,
Guess you can coach all you want but when the fight start's anythinn can happen because the pressure off a real fight is different,

yourdeadwright

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Why not stick him in the TUF house? They did that with Kimbo and it was found out pretty quick that he is not UFC level. Let him prove himself that way.

They probably think they can make more money from sticking him on a paper per veiw,

DeVore

Yeah as a "big name" he might consider it demeaning to be put in with the New Kids.

MartyMcFly84

Is there anyone here who knows if it's possible (or have seen someone do this) to get to a decent level of fluid striking and head movement if you only start working on it in your twenties, i.e., do we have any hope of seeing Pendred shore up this massive hole in his game in the short to medium term?

I'm not talking CMcG levels of striking, but say, getting to the level Spencer showed the last night?

Yes of course it is possible. Age is not the be all and end all. Its about time spent practising that certain aspect. I believe Cathal has only been training in MMA for about 5 years maybe 6. That is not very long considering the range of disciplines in MMA and not coming from a combat sport back ground like Conor did with boxing/kickboxing.

Randy Couture made big improvements in his boxing in his 40s. Ronda Rousey is working big time on her boxing also. Daniel Cormier only started striking when he finished wrestling. The difference there is all of them had a very strong base in combat sports, so could afford to spend a lot of time on one aspect to improve i.e boxing

Cathal is a smart guy is always looking to improve. I am sure he will spend more time addressing the holes in his game.

Beaner1

This is my issue with ufc. Can you imagine a somebody picking up boxing after school and getting pro fights on TV within a few years.

Pudsy33

Beaner1 wrote: »

This is my issue with ufc. Can you imagine a somebody picking up boxing after school and getting pro fights on TV within a few years.

It's mixed martial arts though, he's good at other things.

yourdeadwright

I think the issue with UFC is it get's a lot of its athlete's from guys who failed at other sports.
As up untill this point MMA is not generally a sport kids grown up wanting to be champion's off ( i know there are a few who do) , But this may change over time as it become more main stream,

Mr. CooL ICE

Beaner1 wrote: »

This is my issue with ufc. Can you imagine a somebody picking up boxing after school and getting pro fights on TV within a few years.

Don't really see why it is an issue. There are fighters in the UFC with backgrounds in american football and basketball. These guys don't have the depth of skills to be champion, but they can still compete at a very high level.

As MMA evolved over the years, the important skillsets required to compete at a high level changed. First it was submission offence/defense. At certain stages, it was wrestling, effective striking, toughness, cardio, etc, but over the last few years, sheer athleticism regardless of discipline has proven to be as equally effective.

If somebody is a gifted and talented athlete that can pick up the skills required to compete at a high level faster than most, then fair dues to them.

Oregano_State

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think the issue with UFC is it get's a lot of its athlete's from guys who failed at other sports.
As up untill this point MMA is not generally a sport kids grown up wanting to be champion's off ( i know there are a few who do) , But this may change over time as it become more main stream,

Right so, list all these UFC guys that failed at other sports.

I don't know if it's fair to label Pendred a failed rugby player. He played it in school on a very good team for that level but how can we know whether he ever wanted to do it as a pro? He started training MMA when he went to university afaik and ran with it. I think you could argue that he was a successful rugby player if anything!

A lot of the top UFC guys that I'm aware of have been successful in other combat sports. Examples: Cormier, Chad Mendez, & Johnny Hendricks in wrestling, Conor in amature boxing, GSP & Lyoto Machida in karate. There are loads more.

ASOT

Just seen the payouts Conors contract has gone up by 10k, $85k Show / $85k Win .... $220k disclosed isn't bad atall for a round and a half's work!

chopperbyrne

Did he get the performance of the night bonus?

EITS

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Did he get the performance of the night bonus?

$170 for winning and $50k on top for performance

ASOT

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Did he get the performance of the night bonus?

Yep himself & Larkin got it, With Van Burren v O'Connel FOTN

ASOT

Show averaged 2.75m viewers, nearly a million more than the previous best of 1.8m set by Sonnen/Shogun which actually also had conor on the card and was in Boston.... It truly is the McGregor show unreal!

Lucas Hood

Peaked at 3.1m people watching.

Mmmm_Lemony

CM Punk was signed to draw WWE fans into the UFC. Aside from the weight difference, Pendred would never be matched against CM as he doesn't exactly light up the screen and the match up would be counter-productive to the goal of drawing WWE fans in.

WWE fans are renowned for big PPV payouts. Hence the move to sign CM. Whoever he does fight, will be hand picked for the drama and excitement. Not something Pendred could bring to the table.

Having watched the Spencer fight again, I didn't give enough credit to Pendred. However he didn't deserve 3 rounds and it was horrible to watch.

Hazys

ASOT wrote: »

Show averaged 2.75m viewers, nearly a million more than the previous best of 1.8m set by Sonnen/Shogun which actually also had conor on the card and was in Boston.... It truly is the McGregor show unreal!

Wow, maybe putting it on after the NFL was the right strategy all along...it was a personal inconvience to me but i stand corrected.

darced

This post has been deleted.

ASOT

Spencer is being paid his Show & Win money for his loss to Pendred.

Tigger

ASOT wrote: »

Spencer is being paid his Show & Win money for his loss to Pendred.

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/01/sean-spencer-says-hes-getting-paid-show-win-money-following-controversial-decision-loss

Swashbuckler

ASOT wrote: »

Spencer is being paid his Show & Win money for his loss to Pendred.

Hmmm. This annoys me. It's not a case of diego v pearson. I thought Prendred won.

ASOT

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Hmmm. This annoys me. It's not a case of diego v pearson. I thought Prendred won.

Id say it goes on an awful lot more than its reported anyway. I scored it for Spencer 29-28 so I'm not complaining.

Chase3

Pendred clearly lost the striking battle. However he was in control of the wrestling and definitely in control of the majority of the last two rounds. He didn't do a lot, but he did more than Spencer. He even controlled more of the first round than Spencer, although he was dropped and that makes me score the round for Spencer. The next two rounds were too close, it could have been 29-28 either way, so I had no problem with him getting the nod. 30-27 was a little odd but doesn't change the fact that Pendred probably deserved the win, at least as much as Spencer did.

Pendred has a very unique style of pressure and clinch/top control. His opponents can out strike him, but they need to do more to win. Calling it a robbery is ridiculous, the level of outrage is so much higher than it normally would be because the fight took place in Boston.

MartyMcFly84

This is my issue with ufc. Can you imagine a somebody picking up boxing after school and getting pro fights on TV within a few years.

The sport is MMA not UFC. Its about hours trained and athletic ability. Cathal has been training twice a day for the last 5/6 years or so. In that short time he has probably squeezed in more hours than most people with school or jobs could fit in 10+ years, and with very high level coaching and training partners.

Its not something he has been doing couple hours after school, and having a kick about. MMA is a relatively new sport especially for youngsters. But the level is getting much higher all the time, generally the champions now would destroy the champs of 5 years ago. Even on a lower level most amateur fighters these days are better than the new of pros of 5 years go.

In Ireland It used to be you could turn pro whenever you wanted. Now kids are having 10-15 fights before their first pro fight. I think as time goes on we will see less and less cases or people with no long term combat sport back ground entering the UFC.

MagicIRL

Chase3 wrote: »

the level of outrage is so much higher than it normally would be because the fight took place in Boston.

Add in Joe Rogan, who at times seems to be watching his own fights, and you'll have half the world convinced of whatever comes out of his mouth.

I think he had one too many of his special smokes that night.