Rally for general election Dublin Nov 27th

smash · 05-11-2014 4:35pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

The electorate voted for a coalition

No, they didn't. The electorate voted for the parties they wanted to run the country. The majority parties then formed a coalition so there'd be a government.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:36pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Tell us what points exactly would have made it worse, and how ?

Well it would have been hard to make the situation much worse than what happened, FF and FG policies have always been very similar but in this instance FG promises would have blown up the property bubble to higher levels which would have made the crash even uglier.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:36pm

Scannal wrote: »

Their program for government was in their program for government. The policies they were going to implement, it would have blew up the property bubble even further.

We'll never know. You are criticising them for a hypothetical situation, one that never happened. Get real, please?

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:38pm

smash wrote: »

No, they didn't. The electorate voted for the parties they wanted to run the country. The majority parties then formed a coalition so there'd be a government.

Yes they did. The results of their votes ensured we had a Coalition. That's how the electoral system works.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:38pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

So, you're criticising them for something they didn't do? Do you not see how ridiculous your argument is?

Are you talking about a manifesto or a Programme for Govt?

No, I'm criticising them for something they said they would do. The truth is that we would have been in the same mess whether FF or FG were in power and we would have had the same policies from either after the mess was made.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:40pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

We'll never know. You are criticising them for a hypothetical situation, one that never happened. Get real, please?

You're saying they were lying then? I suppose that's very beleivable alright.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:40pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Yes they did. The results of their votes ensured we had a Coalition. That's how the electoral system works.

So they didn't vote for a coalition.

smash · 05-11-2014 4:42pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Yes they did. The results of their votes ensured we had a Coalition. That's how the electoral system works.

It's how it works, but it's not what the voters wanted or what the voted for. It's basically saying "Here's a choice" and then saying "screw your choice".

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:42pm

Scannal wrote: »

No, I'm criticising them for something they said they would do. The truth is that we would have been in the same mess whether FF or FG were in power and we would have had the same policies from either after the mess was made.

You cannot say that, you're speculating.

Face the facts. Look at Ireland's economic indicators, they are excellent. The Country has been well managed by this Govt and is on the road to recovery. The protests about water are from those who are spongers, who do not want to pay for something that costs money. What about the 250,000 or so homes that are not on Public Water? These people have to pay for their water and they are not out on the streets.

Can you imagine the Shinners in Govt? The same people making little of a rape victim? These people have no economic policies. They pay their water rates in the North, for some reason.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:43pm

Scannal wrote: »

You're saying they were lying then? I suppose that's very beleivable alright.

You are twisting what I posted, a bad sign in a debate. You are speculating, I'm dealing with facts.

Infini · 05-11-2014 4:46pm

To be honest people just need to vote in so many independants that the old parties simply cant get a majority without working together. Would also give AMPLE room for a new party to be formed at that stage as if somoene could setup a new party after all these indos got elected and they got enough of them to work together on a broad amount of issues it would finally break the 2 and a half party system entirely.

While in economic terms they havent done that badly realistically they reek of arrogance and are out of touch with the public they were elected by. Phil Hogan getting his fancy retirement after pretty much insulting the entire populace with the Irish Water quango ("paddy knows the charge now" remember that anyone?) probably was one of the factors that finally made people snap. Once they get like that no matter what they try theyre basically dead to rights. Irish these days have no qualms about turfing them all out.

Alternatively we could take a page out of our Ukranian friends book.....................

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%AF-%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%BD%D1%8B-1568385.jpeg

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:47pm

smash wrote: »

It's how it works, but it's not what the voters wanted or what the voted for. It's basically saying "Here's a choice" and then saying "screw your choice".

Of course it's what the voters wanted.

Labour were never going to get a majority, it's obvious they could only ever serve in a Coalition.

FF were dead, Thank God, they were never going to figure in the Govt.

Shinners were only rabble rousers with no subbstance. Their voters were just supporting populist nonsense.

FG hoped to get a majority but, realistically, expected to be the largest party in Govt.

Knowing all of that, and it's not rocket science, one can say the electorate voted for the Coalition we ended up getting. The choice, when it came down to it,. was between the individuals who would go to make up the Dáil.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:48pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You cannot say that, you're speculating.

Face the facts. Look at Ireland's economic indicators, they are excellent. The Country has been well managed by this Govt and is on the road to recovery. The protests about water are from those who are spongers, who do not want to pay for something that costs money. What about the 250,000 or so homes that are not on Public Water? These people have to pay for their water and they are not out on the streets.

Can you imagine the Shinners in Govt? The same people making little of a rape victim? These people have no economic policies. They pay their water rates in the North, for some reason.

I can say that and I just did.
FG supporters can fool themselves all they like but they are a twin of the FF party. Almost indentical policies pre wrecking the state and almost indentical policies post wrecking the state.
The usual FG attitude from you also calling protesters spongers.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:49pm

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest people just need to vote in so many independants that the old parties simply cant get a majority without working together. Would also give AMPLE room for a new party to be formed .........

What would this new Party stand for?
Socialist? Centre? Left? Right? Populist?

One only has to look at the calibre of Independents in the current Dáil to see it would not work.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:49pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You are twisting what I posted, a bad sign in a debate. You are speculating, I'm dealing with facts.

I'm basing my comments on what they promised they would do, you're doubting their promises, calling them liars in other words.

ThisRegard · 05-11-2014 4:50pm

Scannal wrote: »

Well it would have been hard to make the situation much worse than what happened, FF and FG policies have always been very similar but in this instance FG promises would have blown up the property bubble to higher levels which would have made the crash even uglier.

So you've nothing to add credence to your claim ?

smash · 05-11-2014 4:50pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Of course it's what the voters wanted.

No it's not. I didn't want it, did you? I actually don't know anyone who wanted a FG/Lab coalition.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:51pm

Scannal wrote: »

I can say that and I just did.
FG supporters can fool themselves all they like but they are a twin of the FF party. Almost indentical policies pre wrecking the state and almost indentical policies post wrecking the state.
The usual FG attitude from you also calling protesters spongers.

Thanks, you are so kind.

Whatever their faults, FG are a million miles away from FF. It's an easy barb for you to throw but you have yet to back up your assertions.

Anyone who wants something and wants everyone else to pay for it, IS a sponger. Let them pay for what they use, pay their fair share and not be expecting me to subsidise their Dutch Gold, Sky TV and whatever other luxuries they buy with the money they should be spending on water supply?

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:52pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

So you've nothing to add credence to your claim ?

Ah yes, their promises pre election like I said.

ThisRegard · 05-11-2014 4:53pm

Scannal wrote: »

FG supporters can fool themselves all they like...............
The usual FG attitude from you also calling protesters spongers

Why do most people eventually resorts to this nonsense? If someone wants to debate or agrue a point with you in this area, you're either FG/Lab/Irish Water/Denis O'Brien.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:54pm

smash wrote: »

No it's not. I didn't want it, did you? I actually don't know anyone who wanted a FG/Lab coalition.

I said "the voters", that is the electorate, as a collective.
Of course it's what the people voted for, it's borne out by the results. You don't seem to understand how elections work?

By your logic, a person voting for Mick Wallace is voting for Mick Wallace to be the Government of the Country.

ThisRegard · 05-11-2014 4:55pm

Scannal wrote: »

calling them liars in other words.

Ha ha, how can you call someone a liar for something they never had the opportunity to do, on an entirely hypothetical situation.

ReefBreak · 05-11-2014 4:56pm

renegademaster wrote: »

so, there's a rally called for Nov 27th in Dublin to convince our corrupt government to throw in the towel.

Yesterday saw some of the best economic data in quite a while, showing that we are currently the fastest growing economy in Europe. Water charges aside, they've done a good a job at pulling the country out of an economic swamp. I can't imagine what swamp your favoured parties would throw us in if we voted them in.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:57pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Thanks, you are so kind.

Whatever their faults, FG are a million miles away from FF. It's an easy barb for you to throw but you have yet to back up your assertions.

Anyone who wants something and wants everyone else to pay for it, IS a sponger. Let them pay for what they use, pay their fair share and not be expecting me to subsidise their Dutch Gold, Sky TV and whatever other luxuries they buy with the money they should be spending on water supply?

You're welcome.

FF and FG are almost identical. They just battle it out to see who's turn it is to get their nose in the trough. Just look at their list of policies past and present, what they stand for, the favours they do for their mates etc etc.

The last paragraph shows the blueshirt spirit is alive and well.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 4:57pm

Scannal wrote: »

Ah yes, their promises pre election like I said.

You, again, either deliberately, or not, misunderstand what a manifesto is.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 4:59pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Why do most people eventually resorts to this nonsense? If someone wants to debate or agrue a point with you in this area, you're either FG/Lab/Irish Water/Denis O'Brien.

What I said is true. FG supporters like you mighten't like it, maybe the truth hurts.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:00pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Ha ha, how can you call someone a liar for something they never had the opportunity to do, on an entirely hypothetical situation.

Well he didn't beleive what they were saying, that means he thought they were lying.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:01pm

Scannal wrote: »

....

blueshirt .......

This old chestnut? You, and your kind, look so pathetic when resorting to such insults (or what you think is an insult?). Was this something your Granddad taught you when he was bouncing you on his knee?

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:02pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You, again, either deliberately, or not, misunderstand what a manifesto is.

It's a big pack of lies or will they try to implement something similar to what they say?

ThisRegard · 05-11-2014 5:02pm

Scannal wrote: »

What I said is true. FG supporters like you mighten't like it, maybe the truth hurts.

Sigh. You make lots of claims, asked for where these claims were made and explain, get called out on it, resort to name calling. Brilliant display of debating skills by you.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:03pm

Scannal wrote: »

What I said is true. FG supporters like you mighten't like it, maybe the truth hurts.

What you said was NOT true. It was you hypothesizing about something that never came to be.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:04pm

Scannal wrote: »

It's a big pack of lies or will they try to implement something similar to what they say?

I've already explained it to you (and I will not repeat it).
How many times do you need it explained?

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:04pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

This old chestnut? You, and your kind, look so pathetic when resorting to such insults (or what you think is an insult?). Was this something your Granddad taught you when he was bouncing you on his knee?

Did your Granddad tell you everyone else are a bunch of spongers apart from him and his blueshirt mates.

ben.schlomo · 05-11-2014 5:05pm

Love how the OP starts these threads and then expertly evades every single issue raised in opposition to his viewpoint, you'd think he was a politician, and a corrupt one at that! I expect to see a new thread tomorrow entitled the protest against Israel Water Irish Fracking Flouride Tax Government.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:06pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Sigh. You make lots of claims, asked for where these claims were made and explain, get called out on it, resort to name calling. Brilliant display of debating skills by you.

I told you where you can find their policies that would have left us in a similar mess. I'm not going to hold you by the hand, go find them if you want.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:06pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What you said was NOT true. It was you hypothesizing about something that never came to be.

So their promises were all lies then?

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:07pm

Scannal wrote: »

Did your Granddad tell you everyone else are a bunch of spongers apart from him and his blueshirt mates.

Is that honestly an attempt at humour?

You are failing miserably at this debate. You have failed, time and again, to back up any argument and, instead, resorted to childish, pathetic name calling. And to think you have a vote?

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:07pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

I've already explained it to you (and I will not repeat it).
How many times do you need it explained?

I've explained to you time after time, why can't you understand?
How many times do you need it explained?

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:09pm

Scannal wrote: »

So their promises were all lies then?

No they weren't. Will you just go away and read what a manifesto is before you make a fool of yourself, yet again?

ThunbergsAreGo · 05-11-2014 5:10pm

Why protest when alot of people would be in work....

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:10pm

Scannal wrote: »

I've explained to you time after time, why can't you understand?
How many times do you need it explained?

And that is where you have failed miserably. You have explained nothing!

If you could do it, rationally, once, that would be enough. (It seems to be beyond your capabilities)

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:11pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Is that honestly an attempt at humour?

You are failing miserably at this debate. You have failed, time and again, to back up any argument and, instead, resorted to childish, pathetic name calling. And to think you have a vote?

You claim that FG were lying when they made promises pre elections in the last decade, we know they lie a lot but was every policy a lie?
You do realise you called a couple of hundred thousand people spongers? And you're talking about name calling.

What's wrong with calling a blueshirt a blueshirt?

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:13pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

No they weren't. Will you just go away and read what a manifesto is before you make a fool of yourself, yet again?

I know what a manifesto is, if FG got into power instead of FF they would have got a chance to put the manifesto to the testo but luckily they didn't or we'd be in a worse mess now.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 5:14pm

Scannal wrote: »

You claim that FG were lying when they made promises pre elections in the last decade, we know they lie a lot but was every policy a lie?
You do realise you called a couple of hundred thousand people spongers? And you're talking about name calling. What's wrong with calling a blueshirt a blueshirt?

More pathetic debating skills. You have lost this debate comprehensively.

Any man, woman, Party, organisation deserves to be called out on what they have done but not on something that never happened.

ReefBreak · 05-11-2014 5:14pm

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yeah, listen at 13.30

http://www.newstalk.com/player/listen_back/8/14013/04th_November_2014_-_Moncrieff_Part_1

she also has interesting views on FDI at 10.15, in that she doesn't foresee a scenario where they can stay.
back to the stone age then.

That interview with Ruth Coppinger is one of the most unintentionally hilarious interviews I've ever heard.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:16pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

And that is where you have failed miserably. You have explained nothing!

If you could do it, rationally, once, that would be enough. (It seems to be beyond your capabilities)

I have explained everything. FF and FG are twins, almost identical. The only difference for decades was which side you supported in the civil war. This is a fact. I can't make it much easier for you to understand.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-11-2014 5:19pm

I love this idea of "throw in FF and/or SF" and everything will be dandy and they'll be no corruption and we won;t have to pay extra taxes for anything and...

.... ye-ahhhhh......

Some people are seriously deluded when it comes to elctoral politics.

Scannal · 05-11-2014 5:20pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

More pathetic debating skills. You have lost this debate comprehensively.

Any man, woman, Party, organisation deserves to be called out on what they have done but not on something that never happened.

Well since they weren't elected into power we can only go on what they said they'd do if they were in power and what they criticised FF on post budget time. Going on this we can only reach one conclusion, if FG were in power we would have been in an equal or slightly worse mess than FF left us in.
Game, set and match to me.

smash · 05-11-2014 5:28pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

I said "the voters", that is the electorate, as a collective.
Of course it's what the people voted for, it's borne out by the results. You don't seem to understand how elections work?

By your logic, a person voting for Mick Wallace is voting for Mick Wallace to be the Government of the Country.

No, I understand perfectly how elections work. The point still stands that it's not what people voted for, it's what people were given as a result of the voting.

ThisRegard · 05-11-2014 5:45pm

Scannal wrote: »

I know what a manifesto is, if FG got into power instead of FF they would have got a chance to put the manifesto to the testo but luckily they didn't or we'd be in a worse mess now.

You keep saying this, but have yet to explain how.

Rally for general election Dublin Nov 27th

Comments