getting a newborn to sleep

73trix

Help with sleep routine desperately needed. My baby is 5wks old. The temporary sleeping from 8pm- 11pm has gone aswell. Monkey didn't sleep from 3 pm yest til1am. Despite a walk in buggy and a bath. I thought baths were to help with sleep! I was driven demented!I have unfortunately succumbed to co sleeping with babs in bed with me. He will NOT settle in basket. I tried for over 2 hours last nite. Even after a bottle of formula. Not a hope. So wrecked I let him sleep with me but I'm worried I won't be able to break this habit and my OH will never be able to come back know to bed :-( I never wanted to continue with co sleeping. After m y section I fed him in bed for a few hours as easier for me but not all night. He has now been in my bed for last 3 nites!

lazygal

You poor thing. Unfortunately there's not a set way to get a very young baby to sleep. There's also a growth spurt at about six weeks so if you're BF just be prepared for it. I had sections both times and second time I took to the bed and fed lying down, so I got a bit of rest and did cosleeping for a short time, which I phased out after about six/eight weeks.
At this age baby has a very small tummy and is still getting used to the world so getting them to sleep independently wouldn't be my top priority. I tried to force a routine to avoid 'bad habits' first time and I stressed myself out so second time I led baby dictate for a couple of months and then eased into a routine. I never found formula great for getting them to sleep or extending the sleep.
This really doesn't last forever, I promise. By six/seven months both of mine were sleeping for 10-12 hours and in their own rooms. It feels endless at this stage but it is quite normal.

Stone Deaf 4evr

5 weeks?

you're only just getting started!

my advice would be to just do whatever works for you, if it means co sleeping, putting them in the car seat and going for a drive to put them off, whatever - just do it. Dont listen to the headwreckers who tell you that their little angels slept through the night from the moment they were born. Routines will come with time, and bad habits can be broken with a little effort. A new baby is a shock to the system, so just go with the flow until you feel like you have your wits about you again.

best of luck!

cyning

5 weeks is really much much to small for routines: they just don't exist at this age. Don't worry about creating bad habits at 5 weeks old: If that's how you get sleep just go with it for another little while. It's a a bit of a myth that formula will get them to sleep better: it all depends on the baby. It does get easier after 6 weeks growth spurt then 3 months.

Maybe try cot instead of basket? I could never get either of mine to settle in the basket.

mapaca

It is still very early days, I wouldn't worry about baby forming bad habits yet. The 6 week growth spurt is coming up, so be prepared for feeding non stop for a couple of days. A routine will gradually fall into place as baby gets bigger and stronger. Don't be stressing out too much. I co slept with both of mine and found it the easiest way for everyone to get some rest. They both sleep soundly all night now!

pwurple

+1 to what the others said, 5 weeks is so young for a routine, or bad habits.

Babies are all different as well, so what works for others may not work for you. Baths completely wind my two up for example. I do baths as early in the day as I can manage, they are wired after it.

That's a long time awake for a smallie though as well. Mine would barely manage being away more than 90 minutes between naps at that age. I wonder is he getting overtired? I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but they say "sleep begets sleep". The more naps they get during the day, the better they tend to settle in the evening / nights.

Maybe take note of the time he wakes, and around 1.5 hrs later, watch for sleep cues. Yawns, rubbing eyes, staring glassy-eyed with a long time between blinks. If you see that, straight into the cot or buggy for a nap. At 5 weeks, mine would take between 4 and 5 naps a day.

greenman09

Ours won't lie anywhere but on out chests. 5weeks old. Will
Be out for the count until you put her in Moses basket or cot then she starts. Have the sleep positioner but that helps nothing.

monflat

Just to add do you put baby on his side when he goes to sleep.

My friends baby is bf and if she is put on her back she screams n screams THE MINUTE she turns her on her side supported by a rolled out blanket at her back she's out like a light!

emer_b

I feel your pain. I have a 10 week old and she keeps changing her mind about where/how she wants to sleep. We have no routine yet and I don't intend trying to even start one until she's at least 3months.
Anyway I've been reading this website called troublesometots.com and some of the advice/tips are really helpful. Give it a glance if you find the time. I'm finding the White noise and swaddling is working reasonably well.
Btw, I was also very reluctant to cosleep, but it works and we both get rest so don't worry too much about bad habits. I was so stressed with my first that everything was causing bad habits but it doesn't! I did sleep training with her at 6months and has been plain sailing with her ever since. Good luck!

Sweet Rose

At 5 weeks, I'd be trying to introduce the idea of night and day. During the day, I used to try to wear my baby out as much as possible playing with her, reading to her, having her around lots of people and bringing her out for a walk. I think I choose a time so say 8 o'clock and I used to dim the lights in the house, have a really quiet atmosphere, not much background noise on etc. I kept this up for about 2-3 weeks. I was very strict with her bedtime, I used this routine down to a millisecond every night. Luckily my daughter started to sleep through the night around 2 months.

It will take a while to establish a routine with your newborn but keep at it and be strict.

The best advice I got was from my PHN. She said once I knew my daughter was well fed, was burped, had a clean nappy and clothes, then let her cry a bit to send her off to sleep. Babies need to learn to self soothe a bit too.

pwurple

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Babies need to learn to self soothe a bit too.

I think *need* is a bit strong there. It works for some families, and that's fine, but it might not be right for every baby.

How Strange

We've all been there and pretty much asked the sane questions as you. I found it all fell into place between 11-16 weeks. Both of mine would only sleep on the chest for 12-14 weeks and both went into their cost no problem after that. If cosleeping works then go with it. In fact I'd say do anything you can do if it gets your little one to sleep. Please don't believe that a newborn needs to be left crying or has to learn to self soothe. They've got very limited needs at this age; they can't manipulate or devise ways for you to spoil them so just keep responding to him and try find what works for all of you.

Also newborns (up to 3 months) typically have a fussy period in the evening. Fussy time in our home always coincided with us sitting down for dinner

monflat

How Strange wrote: »

We've all been there and pretty much asked the sane questions as you. I found it all fell into place between 11-16 weeks. Both of mine would only sleep on the chest for 12-14 weeks and both went into their cost no problem after that. If cosleeping works then go with it. In fact I'd say do anything you can do if it gets your little one to sleep. Please don't believe that a newborn needs to be left crying or has to learn to self soothe. They've got very limited needs at this age; they can't manipulate or devise ways for you to spoil them so just keep responding to him and try find what works for all of you.

Also newborns (up to 3 months) typically have a fussy period in the evening. Fussy time in our home always coincided with us sitting down for dinner

This has made me think of when I was in hospital after having my son.

There was a woman across from Me.
I could hear from conversations she was bf her baby only 2 days old.
Curtains pulled on my section and hers too
She had an afternoon of an army of visitors baby was passed around from just overhearing them.
At around 4 o clock My husband headed home and I overhead her baby crying.
I heard her say your fed now you can cry it out.
That poor baby cried all evening.
Now I can't say whether she was feeding her or not or changing her or whatever.


Anyway yes at that age they need basic comforts to be fed changed winded and put to sleep.


Slightly too young to " cry it out ".

dori_dormer

I don't think anyone ('professionals') recommends self soothing/ controlled crying/cry it out until babies are at least 6 months old. Even then I think it's horrible. I think babies cry for a Reason and your just breaking their trust in you by abandoning them to cry alone. Their stress levels go through the roof and studies are showing that it has adverse affects later in life.

I can't bear to hear my son cry even for 2 minutes. Breaks my heart.

Sligo1

dori_dormer wrote: »

I don't think anyone ('professionals') recommends self soothing/ controlled crying/cry it out until babies are at least 6 months old. Even then I think it's horrible. I think babies cry for a Reason and your just breaking their trust in you by abandoning them to cry alone. Their stress levels go through the roof and studies are showing that it has adverse affects later in life.

I can't bear to hear my son cry even for 2 minutes. Breaks my heart.

Dori do you have a link to those studies? Genuine question. Id be really interested in reading them . Thanks

73trix

monflat wrote: »

Just to add do you put baby on his side when he goes to sleep.

My friends baby is bf and if she is put on her back she screams n screams THE MINUTE she turns her on her side supported by a rolled out blanket at her back she's out like a light!

What about the must sleep on back rule??

galah

our baby is almost ten months old and hasnt really slept for more than 4 a 5 hours in one go. Ever. He also doesnt really nap, you may get one two hour nap during the day if you're lucky. Despite trying absolutely everything in terms of establishing good habits etc (at that age I would not let them cry it out, they're way too young. I'll let mine whinge if they're whingeing, but never cry).

His brother is the male version of sleeping beauty, 12 hours straight since he was 6 months old, still has a two hour nap at lunchtime, he's almost three years of age. So it's basically pure luck, you may get a sleeper, you may not.

Best of luck...:o

monflat

73trix wrote: »

What about the must sleep on back rule??

It doesn't work for some.
I think that's more of don't put your baby on its front to sleep like we all were years ago.

However if baby is cramped in womb for last few months they may favour one side over another.
It's like everything they have to learn to be on their backs and comfortable

Most of mine have slept on.their sides from a very young age supported with blanket
It's a comfort for them .they breastfeed lying down and once fall into a deep sleep they are supported in that position.

dori_dormer

Sligo1 wrote: »

Dori do you have a link to those studies? Genuine question. Id be really interested in reading them . Thanks

Unfortunatelyy not. I've heard it mentioned a few times on the gentle families Facebook page so ill ask on there and get back to you!

pwurple

From what I remember, the 6 months for cry-it-out is about the age babies develop object permanence. The idea that when something goes out of sight, it is still there. Before that, the theory is that they don't understand that when the parent goes away, they are gone for good. Which does sound stressful!

Moonbeam

Mine all self soothe but I would not let them scream for ages them cry for a minute then settle.
A 5 week old baby should not have routine,it should be fed on demand,hugged on demand ,it does not last long.
I co-slept with mine for a few weeks and never had issues getting them to sleep in the cot or basket but all babies are different and your stress passes to them.

Are you finding it rough?Do you have help?
I have never had a c-section so can only imagine how hard it is after.

sari

[quote="Sweet Rose;92925957"

The best advice I got was from my PHN. She said once I knew my daughter was well fed, was burped, had a clean nappy and clothes, then let her cry a bit to send her off to sleep. Babies need to learn to self soothe a bit too.[/quote]

What about love, security, comfort do babies not need these too? Or are these restricted to certain times when is convenient for the parent rather than the baby. When you consider the age of the ops baby I think this self soothe stuff is particularly cruel.
Op all you are going through is normal and things will settle down in time, try to rest as much as you can and before you know it your baby will be sleeping longer stretches and you will have forgotten all about the sleepless nights, OK well almost forgotten

deecee1

You could try swaddling bubs,if you google it there are videos on how to do it properly, just remember not too tight around their hips, as this can cause displacement.It helps because they're fright reflex is still really active at this stage, so it stops them frightening themselves awake. Also you could put one of your t-shirt/nightdresses in the basket, it has your smell so your baby can feel secure and feel you're nearby. We also used white noise, it helped sooth our little fella. You can get apps for this on your phone we bought a little frog thing that had a night light and white noise. They're way too young for crying it out and having a very strict routine but i found having a little routine helped and putting him to bed earlier. We started into p.j's at 6.30p.m. bottle at 7 and then bed, then the rest of the feeds were done quietly and in low light. Co-sleeping can be done safely, there are plenty of websites that can give good advice on how to do it safely, I think Kelly mom is one of them. I personally didn't because i couldnt relax with him in the bed but i know plenty of people who did and it was really successful for them especially when breastfeeding. Just remember they're only this small for a very short length of time and it doesn't last forever. I know it feels endless but it does pass

ThisRegard

Just on the bath thing, with our daughter baths would have her wired, never worked in getting her to sleep afterwards and had the opposite affect. Works like a charm with our son though, he's knackered after one.

We used, and still do for the youngest, noise to help them relax. Our daughter loved the sound of waves or a river gurgling from a night light she had, we just covered the light and used the sound. When going away I'd bring an iPod with river sounds and connect it to a travel speaker for her. She's almost 5 now and occasionally gets up and puts it on herself. She was difficult to get down for a nap, I'd have a path worn around the streets, and some nights I'd have to put her in the car and go for a drive.

Simple classical music from a mobile works on our son, but it's not a necessity for him.

So to echo what was said, you may have a sleeper, you may not. We got one of each.

madeinamerica

Just on a the night vs day thing, babies that young do not know the difference between night and day, they don't know to sleep more at night. The biological clock that tells us to sleep at night, gives us jet lag etc isn't developed yet in babies till they're a few months old. So they just eat, sleep and wake randomly through the 24hrs. Trying to force them into a wake day, sleep night routine too early will just end in tears all round. One of the reasons it's thought to happen is that babies need to eat every few hours as they need a lot of energy for all the growing but they don't have the stomach to hold a lot of food or enough fat stores to get them through the nights without eating. When they get bigger it is easier for them.

Marz66

Just wanted to say I'm in the same boat. Mine won't go into the basket for me unless he's conked out asleep on me.

Is anyone putting they're newborn down for a nap while they're still awake? A pacifier sometimes works for me but only if he's v. sleepy and I don't want to use it v. often.

I'm only talking about getting them down for a nap, not the whole night.

madeinamerica

dori_dormer wrote: »

Unfortunatelyy not. I've heard it mentioned a few times on the gentle families Facebook page so ill ask on there and get back to you!

One of the ideas for why it isn't good for very young babies to be left to cry is learned helplessness. It is where if you are stuck in a bad situation or something bad happens that keeps happening despite what you do, this can lead to depression and just giving up. Also, their stress hormone levels spike.

While I don't agree with all the conclusions here, this is a good bit on sleep in babies: (They also recommend no sleep training for babies younger than 6 months)

http://childrensmd.org/browse-by-age-group/newborn-infants/stress-cortisol-and-getting-your-baby-to-sleep/

Hannibal Smith

Our second had his clock reversed for the first few weeks...it was a nightmare. He slept through the day and woke st night. We had a toddler too so even when the baby slept he would run into us. I will never forget it.

You just have to keep your head down and get through it. Take help from everyone who offers, whether its a familymmember who can sit with the baby in the day while you sleep or a friend who tells you to sit down while she makes you a cuppa. Take it all!

If co-sleeping works do it, everything else can be ironed out later but for your own sanity if there's a way of getting a few hours unbroken sleep go with it.

Suucee

My first was a model child. Ate winded (that was the only problem) poo'ed slept. from first night home she went to bed at 7pm, had bottle 11,3 and up at 7. at 4 weeks dropped 3 am bottled and at 8 weeks dropped 11pm. so slept 12 -13 hrs from 8 weeks old.
I just watched the time she woke and made sure she was winding down 2 hours later.

Now i didnt change a thing not one thing and my second is now 7 months old and has slept 2 nights ever. 2. we done everything the same. tbh he is getting better. we have tried co sleep, cry it out, stopping soother, giving a bottle, not giving a bottle. nothing.
he's just not as good.

So just go with the flow. try get them down to sleep within 1.5-2hrs after waking to save over tiredness. if this means a walk in the pram, a car journey, a cuddle in bed or a sling. Just do it. dont tell anyone what your doing as everyone has an opinion and someone is going to disagree. do what you have to do to get sleep and rest. this is more important than worrying about bad habits .

John Mason

at 5 weeks, the world is a big scary place for baby. They are crying for a reason, they want their mama, the one person who can make them feel safe and secure.

Have you tried a sling? Me and baba both loved the moby wrap. He was close to me, warm and secure. He slept all the time in it during the day, we have moved on to a buckle carrier now which is lovely but nowhere near as lovely as a newborn snuggled up against you.

krankykitty

Five weeks old is far too young for routine or self settling or bad habits. It is very hard on new parents though so you have my sympathies. Anyone who says their 5 week old sleeps is either very lucky or a liar. Hang in there Good tip about the sling, at least it might allow you get things done while trying to get baby to sleep.

Someone up thread was looking for links about self settling... This is a good one
self settling what happens