Serial

D'Agger

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It's alright, nowhere as gripping as Serial, but ironing out facts and getting things straight.
It's more facts that have been missing from the case, or items that were not clear but now debunked.

Mr E wrote: »

It's like a Hollywood remake - familiar, but not as good as the original.

So this is the documentary to the original blockbuster - nice, that'd be up my street, will give it a listen and see, cheers!

fisgon

Have been meaning to listen to this for a while, just got into it this week belatedly. Listened to all in three days, very addictive listening. A story fantastically well told.

My impressions are similar to a lot of people. Jay's testimony is not entirely credible, but I don´t know if I really trust Adnan either. It feels like they are all lying. Still, there is surely not enough evidence to convict, despite any suspicions there may be.

Jay, for me, is the most fascinating element in the whole story. He obviously had something to do with it, as he knew where Hae's car was. That is one of the few things you can say with certainty. But he really doesn't have a motive, that is the one thing stopping me believing that he is the murderer. What Adnan doesn't do - and what no-one else does either - is explain why Jay would implicate Adnan, if Adnan had no involvement in the killing.

This is the key for me, if Adnan is innocent, then who did it, and why? The argument that it was Jay does not convince.

In the end, though, I'm not sure I really believe anyone in this whole tale.

fisgon

Serial hits pop culture.

Was watching the new American comedy series, Marry Me, on E4 recently. Two of the characters are looking through a box their friend gave them to throw out, as it contains a shameful secret. They are speculating on what that secret could be.. one says, "what if she killed Hae Min Lee, she did attend Woodlawn highschool in Baltimore" - the other replies, "mmm, she was friends with Jay".

kind of poor taste, but made me smile too.

Mr E

I just listened to the latest Undisclosed. The police are coming across as really shady.... tap, tap, tap.

theboss80

Here's something that occurred to me, maybe someone has seen an answerto this already?

Did the police ever look at Hae's cell phone records and see if/where any mobile towers were pinged on her last day?

8-10

theboss80 wrote: »

Here's something that occurred to me, maybe someone has seen an answerto this already?

Did the police ever look at Hae's cell phone records and see if/where any mobile towers were pinged on her last day?

don't think she had one. Didn't they have some sort of system for calling her house phone where she'd dial the talking clock then have call waiting? Long time since I'd listened to the podcast though

El Guapo!

Something I found strange was that they couldn't get any details from Adnan's email provider about whether or not he logged in that day and from what ip.
I would've thought the big email providers would have access to this information.
If he says he was probably in the library checking email at the supposed time the murder took place then that would clear him.

Mantis Toboggan

Also crazy that the fact that there never was a payphone outside the best buy didn't discredit Jay's story.

Tazzer

theboss80 wrote: »

Here's something that occurred to me, maybe someone has seen an answerto this already?

Did the police ever look at Hae's cell phone records and see if/where any mobile towers were pinged on her last day?

as far as I remember she only had a pager. I've never had one myself, so not sure if there can be records available the same as phones?

poldebruin

Tazzer wrote: »

as far as I remember she only had a pager. I've never had one myself, so not sure if there can be records available the same as phones?

Yes, the police would have been able to gather pager data the same as phone data. Very strange that they chose not to. The pager was never recovered if I remember (or at least it is not in evidence now)

It was one of a vast number of very basic checks that the police either did not carry out (or disclose they carried out) that would be impossible to verify now.

aphex™

I don't think so. Pagers were mostly one way and worked by listening to a radio frequency, they didn't ping of any masts like mobile phones do, 2 way communication was not a feature.

poldebruin

Hae's pager records were definitely available had the police requested them. It is a much discussed point, along with a failure to request Don's records. They also could have subpoenaed full phone records for Adnan's phone, which would have shown where each call originated from - rather than the vague "incoming" we're stuck with now. This would have shown definitively if a call was made from the best buy parking lot - the "come and get me call"

Either very shoddy or very shady.

aphex™

It'd be good to see if Adnan sent her any pages after she went missing after she died. So from that perspective I can see what you mean.

poldebruin

...not to mention if someone had paged her that day at school, could explain the "something that came up" that changed Hae's mind about giving Adnan a ride and would've been a huge clue in the case. The fact that the pager was missing would lend a lot to this theory. I can't see a reason why Adnan would lift the pager if he was openly asking Hae for a ride in front of everyone that day.

All these unanswered questions, that could easily have been answered at the time is very frustrating.

poldebruin

aphex™ wrote: »

It'd be good to see if Adnan sent her any pages after she went missing after she died. So from that perspective I can see what you mean.

...or Don for that matter!

Paully D

Hi all, delighted I was linked to this thread by Foux.

I initially started listening to the podcast a few weeks ago when searching through the This American Life app for something to listen to on my daily run. I was immediately hooked and never looked up anything about it on the internet at risk of seeing spoilers, so ran on to After Hours after I had listened to the last episode this evening expecting to let people know about this great podcast I had found. Little did I know it was one of the most popular in the world and covered by virtually every publication out there! :pac:

Man, what a difficult case to truly figure out. Did Adnan do it? I really don't know. Some episodes I think "yeah, it's probably him", others I think "nah". But one thing I'm confident of saying is that I feel there is far too much reasonable doubt and I'm surprised the prosecution were able to secure a conviction. Based on everything presented against him (or what we've been told from the podcast, I haven't done much other research), I'd have to have acquitted him. I really can't believe his lawyer did not contact Asia as if she testified that she seen him in the library at the same time Hae was murdered, then there goes the case against him. Easy for me to say I suppose.

Is there any further listening/reading widely recommended? I've read The Intercept stuff and the Undisclosed podcast just doesn't appeal to me due to the obvious bias.

Mr E

Undisclosed is still worth listening to.

Legend_DIT

Mr E wrote: »

Undisclosed is still worth listening to.

+1 - While Rabia is clearly biased, I honestly think that the other two have no dog in this fight (so to speak) except that when they looked into the case, they found serious errors in how the case was conducted that they wanted to highlight. Again, does any of these prove Adnan did not do it? No, but they raise serious questions about whether the police and prosecution acted in the interest of justice or just to "solve" the case.

eviltwin

The Generation Why podcast just did an episode dedicated to this case, I haven't listened to it yet so can't say what view they took but their shows are always good and worth a listen.

Paully D

The more I listen to and read about this case, the more I think something like this may have happened:

The cops obviously want/need to solve the case, they believe it was probably Adnan but quickly learn that they have precious little to go on and are going nowhere in terms of having enough to go to trial with. Cue Jay. Jay said himself in his Intercept interview that he was selling vast amounts of weed from his grandmothers house and was scared that if it was revealed, that'd he'd get he and his family in a lot of trouble and be sent to jail. He also cites these things as a reason for helping Adnan in murder. I do think what Jay says is true, he was scared of that, but I think this may have been what caused him to help the cops and not actually Adnan. I think it's plausible that the cops were aware of this and obviously were aware of his past record of petty crime and essentially threatened him that if he didn't "play ball", he was going down for that and/or Hae's murder (Jay has said himself that the cops had told him that he would be charged for the murder if he didn't co-operate). If he cooperates, he gets a pass. Thus, Jay agrees to testify against Adnan as the states key witness and the cops essentially coach him. If you listen to Jay's interviews with the detectives I personally feel it's pretty obvious from the tapes that he's being coached throughout and his story changes so, so much at times when he is under pressure that it stinks. It is after all much easier to remember and recite the truth than it is lies. The prosecutor even recruited an attorney for Jay!

Typing that out actually I realise that there's swiss cheese like amounts of holes in that theory, but I do think it's somewhat plausible if not exact. After all, without Jay's testimony there's simply no trial such was the importance of him testifying against Adnan. Search for the words 'Baltimore', 'police' and 'corruption' online and it's clear that it's hardly the Mecca of honest police work. Just another theory to add to the mix I guess.

I don't know, I'm genuinely starting to swing towards Adnan being innocent. But as I said before, even if he was guilty the evidence/case against him was nowhere near solid enough to put him away for me.

waulie_palnuts

I had to give up on this. I could not take her voice anymore

Mr E

Rabia Chaudry was on Moncrieff this afternoon to talk about Adnan and the case. You can listen back here:

http://www.newstalk.com/player/embed.php?mediaType=podcast&id=105604

FouxDaFaFa

Topic for Season 2 of Serial thought to be

the case of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl's disappearance from an army base in Afghanistan. He claims to have been abducted by the Taliban. The army claims he deserted and want a court marshall to charge him with such. He was released back to the Americans in a prisoner exchange last year.

More information here.

The Black Oil

The guys over at

SOFREP weren't too happy about him. Interesting to see how it plays out, if that's the focus of season 2.

Paully D

September 24th 2015.

State calls Adnan Syed's request to reopen proceeding 'meritless':

Recent requests by "Serial" podcast subject Adnan Syed to have post-conviction proceedings in his 15-year-old murder case reopened in Baltimore Circuit Court — in part so that a new alibi witness can testify on his behalf — are "meritless" and should be denied, according to attorneys for the state.

In a 34-page motion filed with the court Wednesday, Deputy Attorney General Thiruvendran Vignarajah argued that reopening the proceedings so the court can hear from Asia McClain, the alleged witness, would be "inconsequential theater and not in the interest of justice."

Syed was convicted in 2000 of murder in the death of his ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee, and is serving a life sentence. His case gained worldwide attention because of "Serial," a 12-episode podcast and offshoot of the "This American Life" public radio program that revisited the evidence and Syed's defense in the case.

Vignarajah said in the filing that McClain's testimony would have no bearing on Syed's claim — still pending before the Maryland Court of Special Appeals — that he should be granted a new trial because of poor representation by his prior attorney. Vignarajah also wrote that allegations that one of the original prosecutors improperly dissuaded McClain from testifying are "preposterous."

In addition, Vignarajah challenged as "misleading" a contention by Syed's new attorney, C. Justin Brown, that his previous attorney, M Cristina Gutierrez, failed to properly challenge phone records from cellular carrier AT&T that prosecutors relied upon to place Syed at Leakin Park when authorities believe Lee's body was buried in 1999.

Lee and McClain were Syed's Woodlawn High School classmates.

Brown said in a filing last month that prosecutors used incoming calls to Syed's cellphone even though AT&T warned about the accuracy of cell tower data on a fax cover sheet to Baltimore police. Vignarajah wrote that the fax sheet actually referred to an entirely different set of documents.

Brown said he hadn't seen the state's motion as of Wednesday night but would be "reviewing it and considering our next step."

The Court of Special Appeals agreed in February to hear Syed's appeal of a lower court ruling that denied his request for a new trial.

fisgon

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Topic for Season 2 of Serial thought to be

the case of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl's disappearance from an army base in Afghanistan. He claims to have been abducted by the Taliban. The army claims he deserted and want a court marshall to charge him with such. He was released back to the Americans in a prisoner exchange last year.

More information here.

Thanks for the info, but why on earth is this a spoiler? Normally a spoiler is after something happens, not giving an idea of what potentially might happen in the future. You are not spoiling anything by relating this possibility.

(sorry, one of my bugbears, spoiler hysteria forcing people to "spoiler alert" something that is in no way a spoiler.

Th0mas Shelby

I really loved this Podcast, it really is a real mystery what happened Hae, and I really do not think any of us will ever find out for real.

On a side note, this murder took place in Baltimore in 1999. I really wonder who answered the incoming call in Baltimore Homicide Unit when the body was recovered. If it was Detective Jimmy McNulty then maybe that explains why there are so many holes in the storyline! You've got to imagine that that The Bunk would have done a better job with this one.

Paully D

Adnan's appeal to argue the testimony and evidence left out of the original trial has been granted!

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/06/serial-adnan-syed-case-maryland-judge-reopens-case

Adnan Syed will have the chance to argue his case in court, a Maryland judge has ruled, in a victory for the man in prison for murder whose story was told by the record-breaking podcast.

Judge Martin P Welch ordered Syed’s case reopened on Friday, after considering his petition to include the testimony and evidence left out of his original trials. Syed was convicted of the murder of his ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee, while the pair were in high school in Baltimore. The investigation into her murder in 1999 and Syed’s subsequent trial gained national attention in the popular podcast Serial last year.

Going beyond Syed’s simple request to consider his case, Welch ordered an appeals court to consider testimony from Asia McClain, who claimed to have seen him around the time of Lee’s disappearance, but whose account was never brought before the court by Syed’s lawyer at the time. Welch also granted Syed’s petition to include a rediscovered document that casts doubt on cellphone-tower evidence that was critical to the prosecution’s case in 2000.

Syed’s attorney, C Justin Brown, said the court has not yet scheduled a hearing to reopen his client’s post-conviction proceedings. Welch wrote in his order that consideration of McClain’s testimony and the cell-tower document “would be in the interests of justice for all parties” and grounds for reopening proceedings.

“Allowing the parties to supplement the record with relevant testimony and evidence will also provide the court of special appeals with a full and complete record,” Welch wrote, referring to the court that will hear Syed’s case

Brown argued in petitions to the court that McClain’s testimony could have supplied an alibi for Syed, if not for the “ineffective assistance” of his lawyer at the time. He also argued that the prosecution’s case against Syed, which relied on cellphone tower data to place him near the place where Lee’s body was found, was fundamentally undermined by an AT&T cover sheet that warned: “Outgoing calls only are reliable for location status. Any incoming calls will NOT be considered reliable information.”

The proceedings are not a new trial and will be limited to the testimony and cellphone data.

Rabia Chaudry, an attorney and friend of Syed who has campaigned in his support, tweeted that she has been crying in celebration at the news.

“Adnan doesn’t know yet but he’ll find out when he either calls one of us tonight or he’ll see it on the news,” she wrote.

The podcast Serial made a microscopic inquiry of Syed’s case and featured interviews with him and other key figures involved. Many listeners began attempting to parse the inconsistencies in the prosecution and his defense themselves, in an attempt to assess whether Syed stands guilty or not.

Mr E

The saga continues! Well done to Serial/Undisclosed!

Trojan

Heh, I'd say the Serial subreddit is going nuts today (that place is ... extreme).