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Belfast 24hr

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Murph_D wrote:
    How did you find it?


    I found it very comfortable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Mon 25th
    6 miles @8:21
    Hr 138

    Tue 26th
    10 miles @8:18
    Hr 140

    Wed 27th
    8 miles @8:51
    Hr 158

    Thurs 28th
    Rest

    Fri 29th
    Rest

    Sat 30th
    Donadea 100k
    A fantastic course run by a great group of people at an ideal time of year(imo). 4ish mile loops.

    I had two goals.
    Run a 9 min mile consistently and running the distance non stop.
    Both achieved thankfully (pace a little off)

    62.x miles @9:06
    Hr 149
    50k split 4:44:22
    Finish 9:26:10

    Sun 31st
    4.5 miles @9:46
    Hr 147


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Super run Ed, very consistent.

    Well done

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    You mention that 100k so casually... wow, well done!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    annapr wrote: »
    You mention that 100k so casually... wow, well done!

    yes wow is right! C'mon Ed, give us a little more? Please!!!!
    Congratulations!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭martyboy48


    That's super running Ed, I can't get my head around running for that length, well done :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 785 ✭✭✭Notwork Error


    Nutter!:)

    I have no understanding of what it feels like to run 100k but that looks like a great pace and run. Well done Ed!:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Well done on the 100k. Would love to read a report!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Donadea 100k

    Thanks to Google maps I got there. The brother lives in longwood so just a short journey from his house.

    Met a couple of runners in the car park and headed to the registration. All simple enough, low key and friendly. Set my nutrition bag on a table chatted to couple more runners, a friendly bunch and before we know it we're on the start line. Battery placed in wall clock and we're off.

    There's some only running 50k so the paces vary on the off. I settle into sub 9 min mile but soon lost satellite, then it's on off for basically the first lap. It eventually settles down and only happens a couple more times before the end. I measure the next lap at 4.5 miles which was a bit long( i have no doubt the course is accurate ) so decide to try and keep a lap Count instead of relying on the garmin. There was also a lap counter assigned to me so all good.

    Plenty of chit chat on the course and some 24hr runners so I'm asking loads of q's and getting some interesting advice. Pace is nice and comfortable.
    I decide to carry a bottle throughout the race so every lap or so I grab a fresh 500ml bottle alternating between water and a carb drink. After about 2 hrs I took a gel not because I felt I needed it but more to prevent a feeling of needing one.
    At about four hours I took a protein bar as a preventative rather than anything else.
    According to the garmin I crossed the marathon around 3:55 which was fairly spot on and the 50k around 4:40. But I knew the garmin was out and was only using it as a rough guide.
    I could feel my pace increasing naturally but reigned it back In a few times. I was keen to run the entire distance non stop and get the pacing right. In my last 100k there was quite a bit of walking in the last 10 mile.
    The course had an out and back section were you could meet the other runners, give and receive support and also see we're you place. I had a goal which didn't include beating anyone so I never felt any pressure from behind or to catch any up front.
    I was confusing myself about which lap I was on but wanted to hold off as long as I could before asking the lap counter.
    When I couldn't decide weather I had 3 or 4 left, the garmin was reading either 2 miles short or 2 miles long and after the satellite loss I couldn't figure out which was right due to tiredness, I asked the lap counter.
    They said 2 left but I told them to count again and they came back with three. I still wasn't sure this was right so I decided to wait and get a definitive last lap confirmation. I was told yes on last lap and reconfirmed this to be sure. I was planning a fast last lap and emptying the tank. I was still unsure it was my last but gave it everything anyway, clocking some 7 min.miles and crossing the line doing 5:15 pace only to be told I'd one lap left. As I crossed the line the clock read 8:45 so I already new this but it took a moment to register. The mistake ( which I hold myself totally responsible for, in my opinion it's up to me to keep myself in check) worked In my favour actually. I still had some left in the tank and clocked between 8 and 9 min miles in the last lap finishing strong in the last couple of miles sub 8 and a sprint finish.

    First 50k 4:44:22
    Second 50k 4:41:48
    Finish 9:26:10

    Nutrition
    3 gels
    1 protein bar
    1 banana
    2lts carb drink
    2 Lts water

    Toilet breaks
    0

    These are the facts and I've little confidence in my race reporting abilities but am benefiting from other people's reports so here's mine.
    I've no doubt ive left out a lot of detail but am happy to answer any q's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    That's some achievement Ed. Major congrats again.

    Did you do the whole thing without stopping?
    Was that your first 100k? Pb?
    Did you have your own support on the course to hand you provisions etc?

    How's the body feeling now? How long would it normally take to recovery from something like that and when will you run again?

    Sorry for all the questions! I'm just intrigued by this long distance stuff...

    Great report btw.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Ososlo wrote:
    Did you do the whole thing without stopping? Was that your first 100k? Pb? Did you have your own support on the course to hand you provisions etc?

    It was a 14 lap course on which I stopped for 3-4 sec. on most laps to drop and grab fuel.

    It was my second 100k with a 31 min. Pb.

    No crew.
    Ososlo wrote:
    How's the body feeling now? How long would it normally take to recovery from something like that and when will you run again?

    Only complaint was the quads but they're back to normal today. I went into the race with a shin issue and finished without one.(don't ask me!)

    My last 100k was a goal race so I took a week off after(I think). I'm not sure how much faster I could run the 100k currently but I did have recovery in the back of my mind for the first 12 Laps. My current Hr is about 10 beats faster than it should be. I figure it will be back to normal by Sunday at the latest.

    Runs since 100k
    Sun 4.5 miles
    Mon 6 miles
    Tue 8 miles
    I wanted to go further and faster but I believe that would cause more damage than good so I have to be patient take this week nice and easy and see how I am come Monday.

    Thanks for the q's O, I don't know anything about running so I just listen to my body and push my luck a little each time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Big pb! Fantastic!

    Straight back on the horse for you then!
    Looking forward to following the next episode and great to hear you've recovered so quickly. You must be made of very tough stuff altogether.

    And thanks again for the report!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭kit3


    Sounds like you had a great day Ed - well done - Donadea is a great place for a run like that !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    kit3 wrote:
    Sounds like you had a great day Ed - well done - Donadea is a great place for a run like that !


    My first time there. I couldn't get over how beautiful it is. I love the feeling of being In the woods. Sort of magical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Great report and great running, thanks for that! I have to say you are so philosophical about that last lap cruelty, I think I would have curled up in a ball and rocked :eek: :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    The fact is I'm the runner and just like following the pacer, they'll guide you but You're responsible for your own race.
    Although I heard a runner was sent on an extra lap last year by mistake in another race(nothing to do with Donadea). This is where I need to know exactly what lap I'm on myself.
    In my first 100k I got lost twice , the second time was my own fault .I was In 5th place at the time and lost a place during the detour. My only focus after getting back on course was to get my place back and make things right again, which I did.
    On Saturday I had two choices.
    Feel hard done by and sulk or own that last lap. It also taught me that there's always something left in the tank and if the brain says run the legs will obey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Great report. I'm fascinated by ultra running so its always good to read a first hand report. I didn't even know people could run those kind of distances until a few years ago. It's amazing what the human body (and brain!) can do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Ed Mc wrote: »
    The fact is I'm the runner and just like following the pacer, they'll guide you but You're responsible for your own race.
    Although I heard a runner was sent on an extra lap last year by mistake in another race(nothing to do with Donadea). This is where I need to know exactly what lap I'm on myself.
    In my first 100k I got lost twice , the second time was my own fault .I was In 5th place at the time and lost a place during the detour. My only focus after getting back on course was to get my place back and make things right again, which I did.
    On Saturday I had two choices.
    Feel hard done by and sulk or own that last lap. It also taught me that there's always something left in the tank and if the brain says run the legs will obey.

    Amazing running... I would have curled up and died at the thought of another lap !!! and how you kept track of it by the end is beyond me... and a lap is 4.5miles...??? so after thinking you were finished you had another 4.5miles to go???? that is just cruel... and you got a negative split in your second 50K??? Fair play to you!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Belfast 24hrs week 2 of 8

    Mon 1st
    6 miles @ 8:52
    Hr 140

    Tue 2nd
    8 miles @ 8:20
    Hr 160

    Wed 3rd
    6 miles @ 8:30
    Hr 155

    Thurs 4th
    20 miles @ 8:49
    Hr 142

    Fri 5th
    15.4 miles @ 8:50
    Hr 138

    Sat 6th
    5 miles @ 6:49
    Hr 162

    Splits
    7:38
    6:40
    6:22
    6:17
    7:09

    Sun 7th
    Rest

    So week 2 of an 8 week plan for Belfast. Although last weeks 100k was not part of the plan I was only 5 miles short of this week's target. Replacing a ten mile today for a faster 5 mile. Just felt the pace a bit stagnant lately and wanted to give the legs a workout.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Belfast 24hrs week 3 of 8

    Mon 8th
    12 miles tempo. Avg. pace 7:16
    Hr 152

    Mile splits
    8:06
    7:03 ( a bit enthusiastic, aim 7:45 )
    7:30
    7:12
    6:54
    6:32
    7:08 ( supposed to be 6:45 but a pain in arm caused some walking )
    7:00
    7:07
    7:20
    7:37
    7:47

    Tue 9th
    12 miles @7:51
    Hr 153

    Wed 10th
    Sick

    Thurs 11th
    Sick

    Fri 12th
    Sick

    Sat 13th
    27.32 miles @8:39
    Hr 135

    Sun 14th
    27.25 miles @8:35
    Hr 135


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Just gonna outline my plan here for the next two (peak) weeks and my strategy for race day.

    I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, improvements ,criticism and any advice people may have thanks.

    Week 1 peak
    Rest, 12 12 12 12 25 31

    Week 2 peak
    Rest, 12 12 12 18 31 37

    Thoughts on plan?

    I intend to practice my nutrition over the next two weeks.
    Any tips?

    I do not intend doing any track runs.
    Is this wise?

    My current idea for race day is 30 min. Segments of 25 min run 5 min walk from the very beginning. I'll be using the 5 min walks to take on fuel.
    I'm hoping to run/walk fairly consistently. I believe a short rythum from the beginning would work better for me than long breaks between long runs.
    I've done a 3 Hr run/walk recently. Should I practice this more over the next 2 weeks?
    Thoughts?

    I'm aiming for 200KM hitting the 100k around 11 hrs in.
    Thoughts?

    My crew compete In sports but are not runners.
    Any tips on their brief for the race?

    I've probably left out lots more questions, may add more later.

    Thanks,
    Ed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    Since you asked, here are some of my thoughts.

    25/31 and 31/37 back-to-back weekends are brutal, especially with the rest of those weeks being loaded as well. Unless you know for sure that you can recover from that, I would dial back. That kind of 2-week schedule would severely stress most ultra runners. (then again, some like Ruthann Sheahan can take it)

    No track runs is fine. The last 3 years the only times I have run on a track was during my 24 hour races.

    Don't change your nutrition. Eat normally - that's assuming you do have a healthy, balanced diet.

    A 25/5 strategy with using the walk breaks for eating sounds somewhat familiar :) It worked spectacularly well in my first 24 hrs race but I do have to point out that I have subsequently improved on that showing by switching to a run-until-you-can't strategy. I still think it's an excellent strategy for a first 24 hrs race, though.

    Don't take any long breaks in the race if at all possible. I find I stiffen up very quickly and I have seen a runner being unable to return to the track after a break when she had reached 100 miles in about 20 hours (she finished with 100.5 miles).

    I only practised walking the last couple weeks before my race. The general advice is to practise it in your long runs but I never did. A 3 hrs run/walk in training is already more than I could stomach.

    I've had non-runners as crew, but make sure you tell them exactly what you want. If you write down all your needs and a nutrition plan they can follow, all the better.

    11hrs for 100k sound about right if you want to hit 200k (which is a tough target, make no mistake).

    The number one rule is: Don't run too fast at the start!
    The number two rule is: Don't run too fast at the start!!

    Good luck and enjoy! I can't believe I'm going to miss it this year. It's an epic race!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭ultraman1



    I've had non-runners as crew, but make sure you tell them exactly what you want.!
    Am no expert,,,,Write down questions they have to ask u....it's no good them askin you how u are or wat u want,you will be in bits towards the end,every where will hurt,u will get pissed off with them asking u,wat u think, are stupid questions,..get specific..how's your feet?,do u need new socks?,when did u last piss?,do u need a new tee shirt?,..Have a race plan,food times ,drink times,pain killer times,plan b,plan c,,all wrote down and discussed with ur team,,,and lastly u gotta trust them....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Good luck and enjoy! I can't believe I'm going to miss it this year. It's an epic race!

    Cheers and thanks for the advice.

    ultraman1 wrote:
    Am no expert,,,,Write down questions they have to ask u....it's no good them askin you how u are or wat u want,you will be in bits towards the end,every where will hurt,u will get pissed off with them asking u,wat u think, are stupid questions,..get specific..how's your feet?,do u need new socks?,when did u last piss?,do u need a new tee shirt?,..Have a race plan,food times ,drink times,pain killer times,plan b,plan c,,all wrote down and discussed with ur team,,,and lastly u gotta trust them....

    Thanks, I'll start writing some stuff down.
    Hadn't given a thought to a plan b to be honest but I will now.
    And plan c? well there's a bar stool in there I'd say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Belfast 24hrs week 4 of 8

    Step back week.

    Mon 15th
    Rest

    Tue 16th
    9 miles @7:47

    Wed 17th
    9 miles @8:31

    Thurs 18th
    12 miles @8:25

    Fri 19th
    12 miles @8:17

    Sat 20th
    6 miles @8:12

    The calm before the storm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Ed Mc wrote: »
    Just gonna outline my plan here for the next two (peak) weeks and my strategy for race day.

    I'm looking for opinions, thoughts, improvements ,criticism and any advice people may have thanks.

    Week 1 peak
    Rest, 12 12 12 12 25 31

    Week 2 peak
    Rest, 12 12 12 18 31 37

    Thoughts on plan?

    I intend to practice my nutrition over the next two weeks.
    Any tips?

    I do not intend doing any track runs.
    Is this wise?

    My current idea for race day is 30 min. Segments of 25 min run 5 min walk from the very beginning. I'll be using the 5 min walks to take on fuel.
    I'm hoping to run/walk fairly consistently. I believe a short rythum from the beginning would work better for me than long breaks between long runs.
    I've done a 3 Hr run/walk recently. Should I practice this more over the next 2 weeks?
    Thoughts?

    I'm aiming for 200KM hitting the 100k around 11 hrs in.
    Thoughts?

    My crew compete In sports but are not runners.
    Any tips on their brief for the race?

    I've probably left out lots more questions, may add more later.

    Thanks,
    Ed.

    Hi Ed,

    Since you asked for feedback...

    I wouldn't worry too much about the plan. I like the big back to back runs, but make sure it doesn't take too much out of you. Most of what will get you througha 24 hour race is your background, moreso than your immediately preceding training. Take care to listen to your body and don't push things too hard or overtrain. Whatever your plan is it should always be secondary to reality!

    Nutriton wise... keep it simple. Eating in long races is much more about what you can eat as opposed to what you should eat. Lots of nutrition plans don't survive contact with reality on race day in 24 hour races. My most successful plan is to have no plan. If you're well fat adapted you have a lot of flexibility nutrition-wise. Even if you're not you're still going to be spending the race in the fat-burn zone, so there should be no need to go overboard on eating. Try to avoid sugary food as much as possible... you will get pretty sick of it over the course of the race (Except ice cream, of course!! :))

    Lack of track runs should be no problem. Like Thomas, its something I never practice. I'm not sure I've ever run a full lap of a track outside of a 24 hour race.

    Only you can answer the question of whether your run/walk strategy is a good one, as you have to figure our what will work best for you. I did my first 2 24s with an hour run - lap or 2 walk strategy. In the end I concluded it wasn't a good strategy for me, as I was loosing a lot more from the effort of restarting than I was gaining from a walking rest (which I concluded was little or nothing in reality). Again, be prepared to be flexible with this and adjust on the fly. Having said all that, I've seen people hit over 170km with a no-run strategy! If you're going to practice it, practice it towards the end of your 2nd back to back long run. How you react under fatigue will one of the big things you need to learn.

    On 100km in 11 hours to hit 200km... I can see the reasoning and why you have this as a plan. However personally I don't like it as a plan, as I would err towards aiming for even pace at worst. Planning a deliberate slowdown means your absolutely guaranteed to get it. That's not something I would recommend. If you're confident you can do 100km in 11 hours, why not aim to do your first 100km in a relatively relaxed 12 hours, and be rested enough to do your second 100km in 11.

    On the crew... decide beforehand what you want from them, and what you definitely don't want, and communicate it to them. Do you want them to help you with pacing, or do you want them to simply take care of food/drink etc. Do you want them to try to motivate you, or even order you about when the going gets tough? If you want them to kick your arse when it needs kicking then make sure they know this. If you don't trust them to get this right, then let them know that!

    Thomas' rule #1 is spot on!!

    Hope that helps


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    @ Enduro
    Thanks for the advice, lots of food for thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭Ed Mc


    Belfast 24hrs week 5 of 8

    Sun 21st
    12 miles @7:49

    Mon 22nd
    12 miles @8:38

    Tue 23nd
    12 miles @8:05

    Wed 24rd
    12 miles @8:40

    Thurs 25th
    AM 12 miles @8:42
    PM 18 miles @8:29

    Fri 26th
    AM 12 miles @8:57
    PM 14 miles @8:22

    Sat 27th
    Rest

    Skipped last Sundays rest day to get the miles in this week.

    Did all the runs @4:30 am (bar the pm's) to minimise the impact on family life but there just wasn't enough hours spare either side of work to fit in the back to backs so finished off the remaining miles after work.
    A tough but satisfying week. Mind and body are 100% going into next week and the plan should go uninterrupted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Ed Mc wrote: »
    Belfast 24hrs week 5 of 8

    Sun 21st
    12 miles @7:49

    Mon 22nd
    12 miles @8:38

    Tue 23nd
    12 miles @8:05

    Wed 24rd
    12 miles @8:40

    Thurs 25th
    AM 12 miles @8:42
    PM 18 miles @8:29

    Fri 26th
    AM 12 miles @8:57
    PM 14 miles @8:22

    Sat 27th
    Rest

    Skipped last Sundays rest day to get the miles in this week.

    Did all the runs @4:30 am (bar the pm's) to minimise the impact on family life but there just wasn't enough hours spare either side of work to fit in the back to backs so finished off the remaining miles after work.
    A tough but satisfying week. Mind and body are 100% going into next week and the plan should go uninterrupted.

    4:30am!! Fair play to you. Hope you're getting enough sleep, you'll need it. Best of luck!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    chickey2 wrote: »
    4:30am!! Fair play to you. Hope you're getting enough sleep, you'll need it. Best of luck!

    That's some commitment... at least it's almost bright at this time of year!


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