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Dog ate poop, puked it up and ate it again?????
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ShaShaBear wrote: »But in any case, couldn't leave a light on as the baby sleeps in the room with us, and he is in his bed on the floor beside us
The cameras I have have 'night vision' /infra red and were cheap enough on amazon so might be an option. You could re purpose as a (human) baby monitor when you're finished monitoring the fur baby
Or use them to monitor him remotely when you're out etc 0 -
ShaShaBear wrote: »I have literally never had to deal with this before. No idea how he did it or where he got it. We pick up after him in the garden and he is well fed (we have him on Burns puppy (chicken and rice) and I would have imagined it nutritious enough? I let him out at 6.30 this morning, he was only out for about 2 minutes, and then I took him back upstairs. He started gagging, and then puked up an entirely undigested, perfectly-formed poop.
And to make matters worse, as I jumped out of bed to clean it up, he wolfed it back down like he was afraid I would take it off him? (We're working on this with food possessiveness).
Any ideas why he might have eaten it? He's had accidents in the house and not eaten his own poop, and we only cleaned the garden yesterday so there is none of our foster dog's poop left lying about... too big for a cat!
I have had this problem with the one of my dogs years ago. Vet told me that they are doing it as a puppies, but not later...so, this was thrue. I took him when he was 4 months old, after one month he didnt do that anymore....0 -
ShaShaBear wrote: »Just looking at JWB as well, bit lower in price and I've heard it's quite good? I was maintaining Shadow's weight on 230g a day of TotW so the bag lasted us about 60 days. Obviously I don't know this lad's grown weight, he's already as big as Shadow was fully grown and he's only 14 weeks
Wow! What does Opie weigh now? Do you think he is a cross with something bigger than a BC, or was Shadow smaller than normal BC size?
Nyssa has had a penchant for eating poop all along: very quickly we screwed the downstairs kitty box onto a 1.2m ledge by the front door, and put in a stair gate, to keep her from the upstairs one among other things. Pretty sure this is a legacy from the puppy wing in the rescue she came from, as they would all go home and leave the pups in the centre at a certain time, and of course they would be free to do what they would with what happened in the pens during that time, probably copying mum on that one too.
There is no way her diet since we've had her has given her any urge to do this as described on this thread: I switched her to raw right from the start, so this is definitely pure habit! It is getting much less and less often as time goes on too, without any issue having been made of it.
Perhaps where Opie was raised was a similar situation as described above? Just cos it does very much sound as though it could be a habit for him too. I would very much recommend following the advice, and feeding higher-quality, grain-free food. You honestly do not end up more out-of-pocket through the month, as the amount you need to feed is so much less.
And your pup is so much younger than ours (2 months younger, I believe?), if the habit is decreasing in ours now, remembering that she was still in the aforementioned rescue situation at the age Opie is now, it should surely be very much easier with him than it's been with Nyssa. I'd just quietly change the food, some have advised using the leave-it command: no reason why not if it really bothers you a lot! But I'm finding not making an issue of it at all, it is gradually receding away anyway. That's up to you
By the way, regarding the question at the start of the post, Nyssa was about a week older than what you say Opie is now when we got her, just 15 weeks, and was about 10kg. We've almost had her 8 weeks now, and she was weighed at 17.5kg yesterday. I'm expecting her to grow close to 30kg at this stage. I'm just really curious what weight Opie's at now, especially as you say he's so close to Shadow's final size already. Big collies are so spectacular
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Well, after finally getting a hold of Opie's vaccination card, we've found out that he is actually 5 months old, and not 3 as we were told (I bloody knew he was too big to be 13 weeks!!). On the 18th of September (at 13 weeks old), the vet has him down as 7.2kilos!!!!!!!!!!
No idea what weight he is now, but he's definitely not fat, and that seems like a hefty weight for what we were told was full border collie :rolleyes:
So to Ferretone, Shadow was a cross between either a Rough collie and a border collie, or possibly a Bernese Mountain dog and border collie. The lad owned all three so he wasn't sure himself. Mum was the border at any rate! He was much bigger than the average border, very chunky! Vet did comment that while riddled with cancer, he still weighed way over the normal range for a border collie, even though he was clearly very lean! Opie is very obviously BC mix, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious hint of what the other breed might be. He's a subtle tri-colour, only has brown around his ears, and lining his back legs. His coat doesn't seem as long or as thick/fluffy as I've noticed before with collies, so I'm wondering if it might be a short-haired big dog?
Also, finally got to the bottom of the poop. After he did it this morning (and I caught him), I rang the lady who had been fostering him. After a lot of subtle (and completely false) suggestions that he might have to go back to rescue (didn't like these tactics but I knew she was lying to me about something), she admitted that Opie pooped in her flat every night and they would rub his nose in it and slap him in the mornings if they found it. It stopped after a while so she assumed he wasn't doing it any more and didn't realise he could or would eat it to protect himself! :mad: (Explains the issue with hands and finger wagging).
She also casually dropped in that he had a full bowl of food beside his bed every night because he's a very hungry puppy and the amount he's supposed to get is never enough for him and her partner told her that if a dog cleans his bowl, he needs more food! :pac:
Deduction, Opie is in the habit of pooping and eating it at night, partially due to being afraid of being punished, and possibly partially because he is used to getting a full bowl of food to munch on through the night and is likely hungry. In-laws are picking up a crate for us tomorrow, so hopefully it will deter him from pooping once we get him used to having it closed.
So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?
He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted 
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Re the night time nibbles, I would try without first and see how you get on, but I would also be concerned that crating him is not going to stop him eating his poop.
One thing I would most certainly do is phone the most senior person you can find in the rescue you got him from, and tell them what that fosterer did. If she does that to your pup, leaving you with a big and completely avoidable problem, she's going to do it to more puppies. I would die if I thought anyone who fosters for me did that, and I have taken dogs off fosterers for less. The bloody cheek of her.
Yeah I know it doesn't address the poop problem, but I am hoping that perhaps the racket he makes in trying to poop might wake me and give me a chance to take him outside and praise him so that he might learn to wake me rather than poop I'll be setting alarms and letting him out in the middle of the night (we go to bed very late here) so hopefully not giving him the chance to eat it in conjunction with keeping him contained and not giving him the opportunity to prance to the complete opposite side of the room to do it will help :pac:
As for reporting the lady, that is being dealt with as we speak. It's not the rescue I foster for but I have informed them that her and her partner were abusing him and while I did say it seemed to be in ignorance, the lady I spoke to assured me that she was clear on how to deal with puppy training and that slapping and punishing was very much a no. I'm utterly furious, he is so lucky I was the first to see his ad and not an inexperienced family thinking a "fully-housetrained" puppy would be a great idea. I'm well used to most of his little issues and know how to address them, so they don't mar his personality. I did also give the lady in rescue a talking-to as there was clearly no home-check done (she thought this girl lived in the countryside with an enclosed garden, when she actually lives in a block of apartments in town and works full-time).0 -
ShaShaBear wrote: »Well, after finally getting a hold of Opie's vaccination card, we've found out that he is actually 5 months old, and not 3 as we were told (I bloody knew he was too big to be 13 weeks!!). On the 18th of September (at 13 weeks old), the vet has him down as 7.2kilos!!!!!!!!!!
No idea what weight he is now, but he's definitely not fat, and that seems like a hefty weight for what we were told was full border collie :rolleyes:
So to Ferretone, Shadow was a cross between either a Rough collie and a border collie, or possibly a Bernese Mountain dog and border collie. The lad owned all three so he wasn't sure himself. Mum was the border at any rate! He was much bigger than the average border, very chunky! Vet did comment that while riddled with cancer, he still weighed way over the normal range for a border collie, even though he was clearly very lean! Opie is very obviously BC mix, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious hint of what the other breed might be. He's a subtle tri-colour, only has brown around his ears, and lining his back legs. His coat doesn't seem as long or as thick/fluffy as I've noticed before with collies, so I'm wondering if it might be a short-haired big dog?
Also, finally got to the bottom of the poop. After he did it this morning (and I caught him), I rang the lady who had been fostering him. After a lot of subtle (and completely false) suggestions that he might have to go back to rescue (didn't like these tactics but I knew she was lying to me about something), she admitted that Opie pooped in her flat every night and they would rub his nose in it and slap him in the mornings if they found it. It stopped after a while so she assumed he wasn't doing it any more and didn't realise he could or would eat it to protect himself! :mad: (Explains the issue with hands and finger wagging).
She also casually dropped in that he had a full bowl of food beside his bed every night because he's a very hungry puppy and the amount he's supposed to get is never enough for him and her partner told her that if a dog cleans his bowl, he needs more food! :pac:
Deduction, Opie is in the habit of pooping and eating it at night, partially due to being afraid of being punished, and possibly partially because he is used to getting a full bowl of food to munch on through the night and is likely hungry. In-laws are picking up a crate for us tomorrow, so hopefully it will deter him from pooping once we get him used to having it closed.
So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?
He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted
My God that is such a sad thing to read, to think that the poor little mite was eating his own poo and making himself sick out of fear of punishment is heartbreaking. Well done for getting to the bottom of the story. I seriously hope that person is struck off from fostering, because even if it was done in ignorance what type of a character would slap a little puppy and push his face into his own faeces.0 -
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I'm still smarting at the damage that fosterer did SSB :mad:
I wonder how many other foster dogs have developed bad habits in her care?
I had one fosterer who I really trusted, she had looked after a number of dogs for me. But then I started to hear tiny little rumblings from other mutual contacts, and it all came to light that this person was not only not looking after my dogs, she was really actively neglecting them. I was HORRIFIED, but it took a while to be discovered, much to my shame
When you bring him out on walks and he poops, what do you do?
I'm thinking that at the moment, he must be scared of pooping in front of humans... at least in an indoor environment. So I'm thinking if, when he poops out on walks in front of you, you make a HHHHUUUuuuuuugggeeee fuss of him, a handful of really, really tasty treats that he never gets in other contexts, teach him to LOVE toileting in front of you, so that he's not as inclined to hide the fact at home. If you can catch him in the act at home, perverse as it may sound, I think I'd make a huge fuss of him there too, though only after calling him over to me and leaving the poop behind him.0 -
I'm still smarting at the damage that fosterer did SSB :mad:
I wonder how many other foster dogs have developed bad habits in her care?
I had one fosterer who I really trusted, she had looked after a number of dogs for me. But then I started to hear tiny little rumblings from other mutual contacts, and it all came to light that this person was not only not looking after my dogs, she was really actively neglecting them. I was HORRIFIED, but it took a while to be discovered, much to my shame
When you bring him out on walks and he poops, what do you do?
I'm thinking that at the moment, he must be scared of pooping in front of humans... at least in an indoor environment. So I'm thinking if, when he poops out on walks in front of you, you make a HHHHUUUuuuuuugggeeee fuss of him, a handful of really, really tasty treats that he never gets in other contexts, teach him to LOVE toileting in front of you, so that he's not as inclined to hide the fact at home. If you can catch him in the act at home, perverse as it may sound, I think I'd make a huge fuss of him there too, though only after calling him over to me and leaving the poop behind him.
I actually do tell him he's a good boy and he gets treats, as I take a bag out with me on walks to work on his lead-training and dealing with other people and dogs He has absolutely no issue going in front of anyone that I've noticed, and doesn't hesitate on a walk (Shadow would go walking for a full hour and drop trough the second he got through the house) or out in the garden when watched. 0 -
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All I've thought about all day is that poor pup and that sh!tty fosterer! :mad: Thank god he ended up with somebody who wants to give him a chance.
It's upset me too, like I said her and her partner are friends of the family and her partner's family have a few rescue dogs so I'm not really sure where this mentality has come from! I've been assured she won't foster again for the rescue, and I contacted the rescue I foster for (also kind of local) and let them know that she is not to be given a foster dog either. I could only imagine how many problems he could have ended up with being passed from pillar to post because no-one could handle the issues she left him with! 0 -
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ShaShaBear wrote: »It's upset me too, like I said her and her partner are friends of the family and her partner's family have a few rescue dogs so I'm not really sure where this mentality has come from! I've been assured she won't foster again for the rescue, and I contacted the rescue I foster for (also kind of local) and let them know that she is not to be given a foster dog either. I could only imagine how many problems he could have ended up with being passed from pillar to post because no-one could handle the issues she left him with!
When you first posted about the problem, I immediately thought he must have been punished for going to the toilet in the wrong place, and that is why he is eating it, but knowing his story, I thought that couldn't possibly be it. Such a shame he's had to deal with this, but thank goodness he's now safe, and being trained ethically and with kindness. Onwards and upwards 0 -
Aw man, I am horrified thinking of what poor, poor Opie went through! Thank goodness you did get to the bottom of it, and can now understand where the poor wee man is coming from a bit more! I am still horror-struck, thinking of it! The last time I heard of anything the like was when we were small kids, and our scary granny took a dog that hadn't been really an indoor dog before. And we took the dog away from her as soon as we realised what she was doing! That being about 35 years ago!
I'm thinking though, the rescue themselves should have at least been able to remember what age of pup they were homing to you! They honestly should be keeping better track of that stuff, as no denying, it is relevant to the new owners. It sounds as if possibly they are biting off more than they can chew in terms of rescue numbers, and ought to try and take a little more care of their housekeeping generally. Not that any of us genuine dog-lovers hold any of that against the animal at the end of the day, but just every bit of accurate info on our new buddies really does help!
And so it turns out your pup and mine are more-or-less of an age after all! I'm thinking they're fairly much of a height too, although Opie is leggier-looking: Nyssa is much longer in the back, and much stockier as well. I'd say hairier too, not necessarily much longer-haired, though a bit, but much denser-looking and extremely luxurious and toastie. She also has a shorter nose and wider head. I really have to get the finger out and get some pics tomorrow, don't I? :P Opie sure is a cutie, and so is Nyssa as well 0 -
ShaShaBear wrote: »So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?
He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted
Replying to this, I never give rawhide, as such. So many dodgy things about it, from the chemicals used to treat the stuff before it's removed from the leather, to the way some types swell up inside the stomach. I prefer to give either meaty bones, or dried pieces of actual food, such as tripe, ears, pizzles etc, and deduct what they eat of that from their daily diet, which tends not to be a huge amount with their pup teeth anyway!
As for your training, that is an impressive list he is clocking up there, sure enough! As to the retaining concentration, I find it is really helpful to introduce the "look" command quite early on (as in get them to look into your eyes). From which point I incorporate it into everything I ask, so they don't get rewarded until they do that. It's quite amazing how quickly their concentration increases from that, as they can understand by looking into your eyes when you are ready to release them.
You are doing great things with this dog, who has clearly had such a rough time before he came to you. Best of luck with all of it, and hoping that poop issue resolves really quickly, now that you understand it 0 -
Replying to this, I never give rawhide, as such. So many dodgy things about it, from the chemicals used to treat the stuff before it's removed from the leather, to the way some types swell up inside the stomach. I prefer to give either meaty bones, or dried pieces of actual food, such as tripe, ears, pizzles etc, and deduct what they eat of that from their daily diet, which tends not to be a huge amount with their pup teeth anyway!
As for your training, that is an impressive list he is clocking up there, sure enough! As to the retaining concentration, I find it is really helpful to introduce the "look" command quite early on (as in get them to look into your eyes). From which point I incorporate it into everything I ask, so they don't get rewarded until they do that. It's quite amazing how quickly their concentration increases from that, as they can understand by looking into your eyes when you are ready to release them.
You are doing great things with this dog, who has clearly had such a rough time before he came to you. Best of luck with all of it, and hoping that poop issue resolves really quickly, now that you understand it
With the rescue, the age didn't exactly come up, as the girl had told me 3 months, and the rescue just reminded me he needed neutering at 6 months. We were both starting to think he might be a bit of a lab or something else larger because of the legs, but his age makes more sense for his size. His brown is really starting to come through and his colour is almost identical to Shadow's. In fact, given the townland he came from, it's altogether possible he was born on the same farm that we took Shadow from. Unlikely to be a brother as that was 11 years ago, but all the same!
We bought a small bag of JWB cereal-free to try him on. Was going to go for TotW but our local pet shop stocks JWB which means we can get it off them in a pinch if we can't wait for delivery. Also means we can save up and order the 2 bags if he likes it (considering I literally watched him pick out the JWB kibble and left the Burns stuff till last...)
I got up at 4am to let Opie outside (we go to bed at around 12/1) and he just peed, no poop. We had a bit of retching at about 6am and I let him out and something very small came up. I got him away from it by crinkling his treat bag, treating him when he looked at me and that was that. No more retching this morning, so hopefully things will improve 0 -
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