Reasons feminism is still relevant *READ OP BEFORE POSTING*

meeeeh

It's Hungary btw. Maybe they can try to tax internet again and nobody will see it.

LenaClaire

meeeeh wrote: »

It's Hungary btw. Maybe they can try to tax internet again and nobody will see it.

Thanks, that is what I get for posting before coffee.

kylith

LenaClaire wrote: »

Because, according to the police in Turkey, if you flirt with a guy and then reject him, it is likely to provoke him to rape you.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/26/world/europe/hungary-anti-rape-video-controversy/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

All things like this do is depict men as violent animals who can't control themselves. How are men not outraged?

Ambersky

Men could be justifiably outraged at a number of things including the above but Im wanting and waiting to experience male outrage at the fact, not the inaccurate perception, that rape is predominantly a male crime.
I would like to see that outrage not to take pleasure in seeing some kind of useless shame but to see and to experience that all men think it is so unacceptable that rape is a crime committed predominantly by men that it never happens again.
Thats the outrage Im wanting and waiting for and there have been some glimmers of hope recently.

99% of the people convicted of and imprisoned in response to rape accusations were male, with only 1% of those convicted being female.[3]

Approximately 1 in 10 rape victims are men.[30] In a survey answered by hundreds of rape and sexual assault support agencies, they estimated that 93.7 percent of male rape perpetrators are male.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender#cite_note-30

These are not just American statistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics
Internationally rape is associated with and committed predominantly by males. Statistics on rape can be hard to get, for what I hope are obvious reasons by now, but often statistics focus only on the victims and simply take it for granted that it was a man who did the raping. Actually saying rape is a predominantly male crime can be heard as a shocking statement or something you shouldnt say for fear of being seen as anti man.

I would like to have the outrage, complete social unacceptability, disgust, anger etc directed at the fact that rape happens so often and is predominantly a male crime so that it never happens again, rather than hear outrage about me or other feminists being anti man for looking at that reality.

Don Kedick

The whole mens rights thing has taken over. There are some things that are slightly balanced against men but in the overall scheme of things men don't have it bad. Not only are men far more likely to commit rape as the stats show above, men are also far more likely to commit acts of violence, to murder people, actually most crimes be they big or small are committed by men.
The whole mens rights thing scares me a little, it seems to be more about trying to downplay any injustices suffered by women. They attack any woman who even makes a simple claim of sexist behaviour against her. They call her feminazi or whatever. They use the word feminist as a cover word for an attack on all women.
The mens rights movement has gone too far in it's plight to paint men as victims. I've seen some defend rapists as part of it! It's really frightening if you think about it. So instead of showing how far men are against things we've seen posted above and against what way men are depicted, trying to play the victim has become priority. It's sad really.

Carlos Orange

Don Kedick wrote: »

in the overall scheme of things men don't have it bad. Not only are men far more likely to commit rape as the stats show above, men are also far more likely to commit acts of violence, to murder people, actually most crimes be they big or small are committed by men.

I'm not sure being 80% of murder and serious assault victims and the favoured gender to murder by both genders (2X for men and 3X for women) is all it is cracked up to be.

Wibbs

Ambersky wrote: »

Men could be justifiably outraged at a number of things including the above but Im wanting and waiting to experience male outrage at the fact, not the inaccurate perception, that rape is predominantly a male crime.

Right so, as a man I happen to be responsible for all other men? How does that work then? We don't exactly have meetings where John or Bill announces that he's a rapist and we all go "ah sure that's fair enough then". Rapists are passively and actively hated by the vast majority of men. There's a very practical reason why rapists are kept separate from the rest of the inmate population in prisons. If they're not, the chances are very high that they will end up injured or even killed by the other men and that's men in prisons, not exactly bastions of polite society.

Rosy Posy

Wibbs wrote: »

Rapists are passively and actively hated by the vast majority of men.

Someone placed me and my husband at the same table as a guy who raped me at a wedding recently. The groom knew about the rape. But yaknow, he was drunk at the time, and I had had a ons with him previously so it wasn't 'rape rape'... Bogeyman drag-a-stranger-down-a-lane rapists are shunned by society alright, but guys who get pissed and force themselves on someone who's drunk, morally tarnished or unconscious- IME they get off scot free.

Rosy Posy

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Someone placed me and my husband at the same table as a guy who raped me at a wedding recently. The groom knew about the rape. But yaknow, he was drunk at the time, and I had had a ons with him previously so it wasn't 'rape rape'... Bogeyman drag-a-stranger-down-a-lane rapists are shunned by society alright, but guys who get pissed and force themselves on someone who's drunk, morally tarnished or unconscious- IME they get off scot free.

Dafuq? Did you kick up a stink about the seating?

iwantmydinner

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Someone placed me and my husband at the same table as a guy who raped me at a wedding recently. The groom knew about the rape. But yaknow, he was drunk at the time, and I had had a ons with him previously so it wasn't 'rape rape'... Bogeyman drag-a-stranger-down-a-lane rapists are shunned by society alright, but guys who get pissed and force themselves on someone who's drunk, morally tarnished or unconscious- IME they get off scot free.

Jesus Christ! What?! That must have been *horrific* for you

Rosy Posy

bluewolf wrote: »

Dafuq? Did you kick up a stink about the seating?

A friend snuck in and did some swoppery before the meal...she had been seated with her ex so it worked out in the end. I don't think they thought it through tbh.

kylith

Wibbs wrote: »

Right so, as a man I happen to be responsible for all other men? How does that work then? We don't exactly have meetings where John or Bill announces that he's a rapist and we all go "ah sure that's fair enough then". Rapists are passively and actively hated by the vast majority of men. There's a very practical reason why rapists are kept separate from the rest of the inmate population in prisons. If they're not, the chances are very high that they will end up injured or even killed by the other men and that's men in prisons, not exactly bastions of polite society.

Federror wrote: »

I disagree, rape is considered a very serious crime and most men despise rapists regardless if they previously had consensual sex with the victim. Some crimes are hard to prove therefore many perpetrators aren't convicted.

Would that be why people lined up to shake the hand of Danny Foley, a rapist caught on camera carrying an inebriated woman to a car park to rape her? Because they hated him so much?

Lemming

kylith wrote: »

Would that be why people lined up to shake the hand of Danny Foley, a rapist caught on camera carrying an inebriated woman to a car park to rape her? Because they hated him so much?

And why a handful of women laughing and joking with Sharon Osbourne about a woman who cut off her husband's penis on daytime television is not representative of all women whilst howling "mysandry".

The absolute fact of the matter is that male sex offenders are despised by society as a whole (or Western society at least). And as Wibbs has already said, such offenders have to be segregated from the rest of prison populations because they will be murdered if not put in a wheelchair for life given have the chance. You will always find some exception to any rule no matter what it is given time, because people are - quite simply put - idiots.

Ambersky

Reasons why feminism is still relevant.

99% of the people convicted of and imprisoned in response to rape accusations were male, with only 1% of those convicted being female.[3]

Approximately 1 in 10 rape victims are men.[30] In a survey answered by hundreds of rape and sexual assault support agencies, they estimated that 93.7 percent of male rape perpetrators are male.

Rape is a feminist issue. Right can we all agree on that.

All the statistics internationally say rape is overwhelmingly a male crime yet we are not suppose to say that and we are not use to hearing it stated so bluntly.

One of the basic things feminism does is point out that rape is a male crime.
If all men thought rape was abhorrent it would not happen any more thats just a fact.
I know all men dont rape and I hear that statement all the time but Im pointing out that if all men were outraged by rape it wouldnt happen any more.

I know I am defending my statement, is that what we are suppose to do here when challenged?

Wibbs asks
Right so, as a man I happen to be responsible for all other men? How does that work then?

Rape is a feminist issue, the statistics Im quoting are true, its a fact that rape is overwhelmingly a male crime, if I state those obvious facts am I therefore obliged to come up with suggestions for what men are to do in order to deal with it and get into a debate about it.
Is that what this thread is for making feminist statements and then getting into defending those statements to the inevitable challenges defending men.

Neyite

Neyite wrote: »

I wonder WHAT exactly must a woman go through in that town to be believed??

Not an actual legal conviction anyway apparently

Heard someone talk about another case about how the girls were just troublemakers as he was a fine upstanding sportsman ... sports! as if that has anything to do with anything

Neyite

bluewolf wrote: »

Not an actual legal conviction anyway apparently

Heard someone talk about another case about how the girls were just troublemakers as he was a fine upstanding sportsman ... sports! as if that has anything to do with anything

Because sportsmen dont rape obvs. Ched Evans. Steubensville. Mike Tyson et al

Wibbs

kylith wrote: »

Would that be why people lined up to shake the hand of Danny Foley, a rapist caught on camera carrying an inebriated woman to a car park to rape her? Because they hated him so much?

And look at the massive outcry that followed with condemnation throughout the land from men and women. That was as much an example of Irish small town parochial ballsology as anything.

Ambersky wrote: »

Rape is a feminist issue, the statistics Im quoting are true, its a fact that rape is overwhelmingly a male crime, if I state those obvious facts am I therefore obliged to come up with suggestions for what men are to do in order to deal with it and get into a debate about it. Is that what this thread is for.

God forbid we might get into a debate. Especially when someone posts a statement like "If all men thought rape was abhorrent it would not happen any more thats just a fact.
I know all men dont rape and I hear that statement all the time but Im pointing out that if all men were outraged by rape it wouldnt happen any more". "All men" eh? So "all men" are somehow responsible for the minority of rapists and are responsible for stopping rape? Kinda goes against the idea in the original post on the thread of "Generalisation of genders will not be allowed in any form". Me and every other man I know and have known is somehow responsible for some bastard rapist? Nice one.

Never mind all that, again how would this all work in practical terms? I've never knowingly met a rapist. They don't tend to advertise this, certainly not to other men. I wonder why... If I had I'm quite sure I and any of my male friends would shun them, at the very least. I/we have known men who got punchy with women and let's just say shunning was the least that happened in two examples. So how as a non rapist man, who doesn't know any rapists, who at the very least would shun, report to the cops, maybe even take the law "off the books", how am I/we supposed to in practical terms insure rape doesn't "happen any more"? If you, or anyone else has a practical workable way to make this happen, rather than post hollow and frankly insulting statements I'm all ears.

realtalk101

women suffer sexism in Ireland but it's time we admitted Irish men suffer sexism as well ,
I believe the way some women treat men in Ireland with constant unwarranted suspicion is equally as damaging,
Being treated with unwarranted suspicion Hurts and destroys a mans confidents,and also causes resentment and anger
It's time we started to heal each other and open up and talk



These special interest groups like feminism are influenced by negitive emotions and personal prejudices,
and are doing far more damage than good,It's time we reconised that ,It doesn't suit us Irish,haven't went learnt from our pass at all

realtalk101

realtalk101 wrote: »

women suffer sexism in Ireland but it's time we admitted Irish men suffer sexism as well ,

Not in this one fcuking thread on the whole website

Mod

Can you please pay attention to postcount, if a user looks like they are trolling then assume they are indeed doing so by reporting their posts and ignoring them. Troll posts and responses deleted.

Can everyone please re-read the OP as many of you seem to be having trouble keeping within the rules.

This thread is headed for closure with a few bans being handed out along with it. If you cannot post within the rules set out, do not post at all. If you have an issue with a post, report it.

Ambersky

These are the new rule

The original thread was started by a poster who wished to share stories and experiences which made herself and other posters feel they need feminism.


There will be no debate on feminism itself. This is not the thread to discuss the rights and
wrongs of feminism.

Neither will there be a debate on the validity of a post within the remit of this thread i.e. "I need
feminism because"

Inflammatory language is not acceptable


Generalisation of genders will not be allowed in any form.

Discussion of other forums not allowed.


I thought I could post a statement of fact which is something commonly pointed out by feminism that rape is a predominantly male crime without being expected to justify its validity
I didn't put forward any conclusions about men in general I made an observation on the statistics and said I look forward to the day all men found rape abhorent and it no longer happened. That's a pretty basic feminist statement and people may not like it but I thought the rules were we weren't here to discuss the rights and wrongs of feminism.
I'm not going to enter into a debate on it that happens often enough elsewhere and I deliberately stay away.
As most rapists are known by their victims and I have several friends and relatives who have been raped I too know their rapists. So maybe that gives me a somewhat different perspective as well although I would guess that there would be quite a few other women posters who would be in a simular position.
Anyway new rules or not I don't think this is the place for me.

Ambersky

Didn't see mod warning before posting but too unclear about how it would apply to continue posting anyway.

Don Kedick

psinno wrote: »

I'm not sure being 80% of murder and serious assault victims and the favoured gender to murder by both genders (2X for men and 3X for women) is all it is cracked up to be.

And the overwhelming majority of those committing those murders and assaults are???????????????
That's right: men.

Don Kedick

Straight away the point has been proven. The mens rights brigade come in with their claims to be the real victims, even ignoring first hand experience which proves their claim to be false.
We all know the majority of men despise rapists who attack women and drag them into the bushes but, there's also many men who don't see other forms of rape as being too serious. If there's loads of drink involved, if the woman has been bought drink by a man on a night out, if it's partners in bed together, some men even see women wearing revealing clothing as them asking for it.
Rape is rape no matter what the circumstances. As has been pointed out on the last page of this thread, rapists get defended regularly, it's not just isolated instances. We know this because some high profile cases have been in the news recently and the amount of men standing up for the rapist is sickening. This is repeated at local level. There's many examples of cases where the woman is not believed or the blame has been put on the woman. I know women who didn't report because they thought they wouldn't be believed.
The attitude really has to change and as I've said, less focus should be put on men playing the victims and instead focused on trying to tackle this serious issue.

meeeeh

I hate to break it to you but considering the rapist was invite to wedding I think at least bride and possibly more female friends didn't believe the poster above it happened or didn't take it seriously. I certainly hope my partner would refuse attend the wedding where my rapist would be present and I really wouldn't want to be friendly with people who were still his friends.

I also know a woman who was willing to lie on the stand to protect her husband who was accused of the sexual assault and rape of the minor. Her opinion was that the victim was money grabbing bitch. Rape might be predominantly male crime but it is often supported or even facilitated by women, especially in case of minors. So making this "only" male issue is idiotic.

Don Kedick

meeeeh wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but considering the rapist was invite to wedding I think at least bride and possibly more female friends didn't believe the poster above it happened or didn't take it seriously. I certainly hope my partner would refuse attend the wedding where my rapist would be present and I really wouldn't want to be friendly with people who were still his friends.

I also know a woman who was willing to lie on the stand to protect her husband who was accused of the sexual assault and rape of the minor. Her opinion was that the victim was money grabbing bitch. Rape might be predominantly male crime but it is often supported or even facilitated by women, especially in case of minors. So making this "only" male issue is idiotic.

We can criticise those who don't believe rape victims, we can criticise those who protect rapists but this doesn't change the fact that these people wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't for the rape occuring in the first place. The sad reality is that 99% of rapes are committed by men.

meeeeh

And? Are you trying to say that rape is something men do? So let's criticise the gender not the perpetrators?

Lyaiera

Feminism is still relevant because I just made a list of things that make me feel unsafe and the most basic principles of feminism go to addressing a lot of the concerns I listed. To me the feminism that's relevant isn't just about addressing the unique flashpoints in society that cause concern but about allowing me to live my life with as much freedom as possible.

Don Kedick

meeeeh wrote: »

And? Are you trying to say that rape is something men do? So let's criticise the gender not the perpetrators?

I'm saying instead of trying to spread the blame and trying to depict men as victims in society, more effort should be put into tackling the thought that's out there that some rape is not really rape and the thought that some men have of rape being not that serious of a crime.
This can only be changed by men being vocal against those who defend rapists with various excuses of drink involved, she was leading him on etc etc. Men making jokes about rape is far too common, it's only done when they're amongst other men. We need to be strong enough to stand up and say it's not ok to make jokes about rape.
This is not saying that all men are rapists, I'm just showing some of the things that men can do to make even thinking about rape taboo. It's not about an attack on men, it's about arming men to attack rape culture.

meeeeh

Sorry but there are too many generalizations there that I would drag this way off topic discussing it. Neither do I feel the need to defend men because they can do it themselves.