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fixXxer

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Is Hook 2.0 or 3.0 the on where he can hook you, then turn sideways and make you fall off the map?

As a Pharah/D.Va "main", I hate Roadhog with a passion.

That was hook 1.0 not seen anything like that since the update. But a PS4 player here so I didn't see most of the weird hook stuff in 1.0.

Nody

Grayditch wrote: »

It's cooldown is just too low for something as instant-killy like that. He's been ridiculous since the update.

The problem is still he dies and lives by the hook; what's needed would be to replace second fire shot with a charge mechanic or similar to let him close the gap to use the shotgun properly. That would allow the hook duration to be increased as a seldom use instead of "don't bother unless hook is up" use.

TitianGerm

Nody wrote: »

what's needed would be to replace second fire shot with a charge mechanic or similar to let him close the gap to use the shotgun properly.

But that's DVa and Winston job. Hog can't do everything!!

J. Marston

Hate Roadhog with a passion. Hate any insta-kill bullshít with a passion really.

Mei and Reaper used to be able to survive a hook and ice-block/wraith away which still left them vulnerable but now it's insta-death.

dudeeile

Nody

emmetkenny wrote: »

But that's DVa and Winston job. Hog can't do everything!!

Dva has 3D mobility to flank; what I'm talking about would be something more like the dash of Genji's sword attack to close the distance to a target which has the obvious downside of putting you closer to the enemy team rather then behind your Reinhardt's shield. Winston once again has the longer distance (and verticality), shield and area attack so it's not a question of replacing Dva or Winston but giving him the mobility buff to not be 100% reliant on the hook because without his hook currently he's useless (a reaper would be of more use).

SolvableKnave

I think I can safely say I am USMCDad. :P

fixXxer

Nody wrote: »

Dva has 3D mobility to flank; what I'm talking about would be something more like the dash of Genji's sword attack to close the distance to a target which has the obvious downside of putting you closer to the enemy team rather then behind your Reinhardt's shield. Winston once again has the longer distance (and verticality), shield and area attack so it's not a question of replacing Dva or Winston but giving him the mobility buff to not be 100% reliant on the hook because without his hook currently he's useless (a reaper would be of more use).

Fast movement kind of goes against his character though. His thing is he's a big fat angry bastard who cant make the effort to go to you so he has a hook to bring you to him.

Grayditch

He used to need his team. He'd pull a problematic player out of the mix and he and the team would finish them. Now I've seen Roadhoggs just bosses the games getting too many ults as a result.

Zillah

fixxxer wrote: »

If you're caught out in the open maybe, but if you're using cover or evasive movements correctly you'll be mostly fine. I don't mind the cool down so much but I honestly felt hook 2.0 worked really well. Punish players who are out of position (or flankers to a degree) and not that effective against those that play properly.

I hear this sort of thing a lot from people defending the hook and personally I think its total bullshit. "Out of position" or "failing to use evasive movements properly" - you mean "anywhere in line of sight of Roadhog".

I don't know what sort of idealistic fantasies people have about how games actually play out but staying in cover all the time is impossible, and the idea that the hook is some sort of punishment for bad play is absurd: being within line-of-sight of Roadhog is not "bad play", it's a natural and unavoidable element of every single game.

The absolute worst is when you're playing Reaper. My one thing is that I am supposed to be able to kill tanks at point blank range. Roadhog can just hook and instantly execute me. All the other tanks have some sort of solution: Rein can fight back with his hammer or has a chance of landing a charge; DVa can shoot back, fly away or use defense matrix; Winston can bail; Zarya can pop a shield and laser me - they all add an element of defense. Roadhog can just click and instantly kill you. It's stupid.

I'd be perfectly happy with fatty just getting cut from the game. I know that isn't a popular thought - especially on Reddit - but I have no fondness for him. At least the old hook had an element of doubt involved: the Road player had a small chance of not killing you, you could use ice block or wraith form, sometimes I even landed a sleep dart with Ana - now it's a death sentence the second the hook lands under almost all circumstances.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote: »

I hear this sort of thing a lot from people defending the hook and personally I think its total bullshit. "Out of position" or "failing to use evasive movements properly" - you mean "anywhere in line of sight of Roadhog".

I don't know what sort of idealistic fantasies people have about how games actually play out but staying in cover all the time is impossible, and the idea that the hook is some sort of punishment for bad play is absurd: being within line-of-sight of Roadhog is not "bad play", it's a natural and unavoidable element of every single game.

The absolute worst is when you're playing Reaper. My one thing is that I am supposed to be able to kill tanks at point blank range. Roadhog can just hook and instantly execute me. All the other tanks have some sort of solution: Rein can fight back with his hammer or has a chance of landing a charge; DVa can shoot back, fly away or use defense matrix; Winston can bail; Zarya can pop a shield and laser me - they all add an element of defense. Roadhog can just click and instantly kill you. It's stupid.

I'd be perfectly happy with fatty just getting cut from the game. I know that isn't a popular thought - especially on Reddit - but I have no fondness for him. At least the old hook had an element of doubt involved: the Road player had a small chance of not killing you, you could use ice block or wraith form, sometimes I even landed a sleep dart with Ana - now it's a death sentence the second the hook lands under almost all circumstances.

Right, so rather than think about game balance, you've found a character that's a counter to one you play and thrown your toys from the pram.

Reducing the hooks range could be an idea

raze_them_all_

What annoys me is as tank is the one hit kill machine and not the dps chars

Zillah

Grayditch wrote: »

He'd pull a problematic player out of the mix and he and the team would finish them.

This is a much more balanced way of looking at it. The hook on its own is incredibly powerful: it drags you away from your team and directly into the firing line of the enemy. That's extremely useful all on its own. Comboing that with lining them up in front of your instant-execution gun is just obscene.

fixxxer wrote: »

Right, so rather than think about game balance, you've found a character that's a counter to one you play and thrown your toys from the pram.

That's not a fair way of describing it at all. I barely play Reaper, I've only just discovered him. It's not that he is a counter to someone, he is able to instantly execute every non-tank in the game. Including, in Reaper's case, the one circumstance where he is supposed to excel.

I can play nasty, too: you've found one character with an overpowered ability, and instead of talking about game balance you just throw your toys out of the pram and tell everyone else to suck it up.

SolvableKnave

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

What annoys me is as tank is the one hit kill machine and not the dps chars

He has a massive shotgun that does feck all damage at any sort of range beyond close. It's the whole idea behind his skill set. Enemy at range? Don't bother shooting. Can't run into them. Hook em to you and blow their heads off.

He also has a tiny mag size which must be taken into account. He's slow as molasses. His entire mechanic / play style must be taken into account. Hook range could be reduced slightly, but beyond that, he's fine.

Zillah

SolvableKnave wrote: »

He also has a tiny mag size which must be taken into account. He's slow as molasses. His entire mechanic / play style must be taken into account. Hook range could be reduced slightly, but beyond that, he's fine.

I think the PTR might be better. They're making it so that the victim lands quite a bit further in front of him, so we should see fewer execution shots. Decreasing the spread on his gun, too, so it does more damage overall/at range.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote: »

This is a much more balanced way of looking at it. The hook on its own is incredibly powerful: it drags you away from your team and directly into the firing line of the enemy. That's extremely useful all on its own. Comboing that with lining them up in front of your instant-execution gun is just obscene.



That's not a fair way of describing it at all. I barely play Reaper, I've only just discovered him. It's not that he is a counter to someone, he is able to instantly execute every non-tank in the game. Including, in Reaper's case, the one circumstance where he is supposed to excel.

I can play nasty, too: you've found one character with an overpowered ability, and instead of talking about game balance you just throw your toys out of the pram and tell everyone else to suck it up.

ok, fair point, calm heads shall prevail.

I didn't play any Roadhog until recently but I've never found him to be overpowered. Anyone with distance attacks can get him fairly easily, tracer can speed around him like an irritating mosquito, etc. He has plenty of ways to be taken down. The hook (2.0) always felt a reasonable trade off for being such a big, slow easy target. You'd get one maybe two kills before the other team noticed and you had to scarper.

A longer cool down might make things more balanced, or as suggested a shorter distance, but even when I've been hooked I'd never felt it was particularly unfair. His healing I always thought was more of a problem, allowing him to operate too separately from the main team. Maybe lessen the amount or increase the cool down on that instead.

SolvableKnave

Zillah wrote: »

I think the PTR might be better. They're making it so that the victim lands quite a bit further in front of him, so we should see fewer execution shots. Decreasing the spread on his gun, too, so it does more damage overall/at range.

That sounds decent enough. Gives the likes of Mei and Reaper a chance. Support should still go down in one, maybe Hanzo and Genji too. See how the changes pan out, and any tweeks they might make.

Zillah

I'm actually ok with Roadhog's healing ability. He is a tank, after all - he should be hard to kill. He doesn't have any armour, or shields, or other defensive abilities like the other tanks. He's got a huge pool of hitpoints and the ability to regenerate quite quickly; I can live with that.

The hook's lethality is the problem. It should be for grabbing/scaring off flankers, and pulling people out of the front line. What happens after they get there should be a bit more chaotic, it should depend on if there are people ready to do the damage, and characters with defensive abilities should have a much higher chance of escaping the hook with their lives. There is no room for any of that with an instakill.

Grayditch

I think maybe just a longer cooldown would do it. At this, rate he gets to miss, enjoy a brief firefight, then try again very shortly. I have to time it in my head from when he misses with the hook to when he gets it back again and you have to be careful and pretty lucky.

I get that he's not good outside of the hook, but right now he really doesn't need to be, it's that vicious a combo. So I'd say keep the severity of it, but sort out how frequently he can use it.

TitianGerm

Zillah wrote: »

I'm actually ok with Roadhog's healing ability. He is a tank, after all - he should be hard to kill. He doesn't have any armour, or shields, or other defensive abilities like the other tanks. He's got a huge pool of hitpoints and the ability to regenerate quite quickly; I can live with that.

The hook's lethality is the problem. It should be for grabbing/scaring off flankers, and pulling people out of the front line. What happens after they get there should be a bit more chaotic, it should depend on if there are people ready to do the damage, and characters with defensive abilities should have a much higher chance of escaping the hook with their lives. There is no room for any of that with an instakill.

I don't play Hog at all, bar Mystery Hero and I've no problem with him now bar maybe having his hook ready a little to quickly.

I main Lucio and quite honestly the only time I'm killed by a Hog is when I fcuk up, and even then I can often escape with a well timed boop.

Zarya on the other hand can mealt me from a mile away and I can never escape from her

Grayditch

I can't stand fighting a good Zaraya. I respect her character a lot, though, it's a brilliant idea and it takes a lot of skill to player her.

I've seen some people play her to the point where her timing is so good, she's just unkillable. The skill and decision making on the fly with some people is just incredible.

When I play Sombra, Zaraya is usually my main priority.

Penn

Grayditch wrote: »

I can't stand fighting a good Zaraya. I respect her character a lot, though, it's a brilliant idea and it takes a lot of skill to player her.

I've seen some people play her to the point where her timing is so good, she's just unkillable. The skill and decision making on the fly with some people is just incredible.

When I play Sombra, Zaraya is usually my main priority.

Yeah, got wrecked in a Mystery Heroes recently where they had two Zarya's on Defence. Couldn't even nearly kill them. They kept shielding each other and must have kept a good charge too as they'd melt you fairly quickly.

Grayditch

I'd like to get good with her but it would be a while until I got to grips with when/why and who to shield.

SolvableKnave

Grayditch wrote: »

I'd like to get good with her but it would be a while until I got to grips with when/why and who to shield.

Shield anyone hooked by Hog. All the time.

fixXxer

SolvableKnave wrote:

Shield Hog. All the time.

FTFY

A Neurotic

Grayditch wrote:

When I play Sombra, Zaraya is usually my main priority.

I'm always disappointed when I land a hack on Zarya, because when Sombra was first released everyone on reddit decided that her hack would remove Zarya's shield HP and effectively half her HP. If only.

Zillah

emmetkenny wrote: »

I main Lucio and quite honestly the only time I'm killed by a Hog is when I fcuk up, and even then I can often escape with a well timed boop.

Are you on console? Not sure why it would be different for something like that but on PC you're not getting a boop off before you die. Reaper can't wraith, Mei can't ice block.

fixXxer

Who can be one shot killed Hook 2.0 vs 3.0

https://goo.gl/6nbtLI

TitianGerm

Zillah wrote: »

Are you on console? Not sure why it would be different for something like that but on PC you're not getting a boop off before you die. Reaper can't wraith, Mei can't ice block.

Yup on console. If you time it right it should work, not all the time but if say 60% of the time I boop him away.

I'd say it's more down to bad timing on the Hog part on shooting rather than me being a pro Boostio :pac:

On console after you land a hook if you hold the fire button once the enemy is pulled to you and the hook releases you automatically fire. Not sure if the same happens on PC.