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Grayditch

So many useless Sombras on console competitive. One of the most noticeable waste of picks when you get one who won't change.

Adventagious

Zillah wrote: »

now dawns the Age of Sombra...they called us loco, they laughed at us, said we were trolling...cabrón, I will show them...I'll turn out their luces, yes, then they'll see...

Unnecessarily loud ¿Qué onda?

SolvableKnave

Penn wrote: »

How great would it be if Sombra could hack Orisa's supercharger ult and make it cause 50% less damage

She can hack the ult. Shuts it down completely

Zillah

SolvableKnave wrote: »

She can hack the ult. Shuts it down completely

Yup. But if she's close enough to hack it, she can destroy it in about 1.5 seconds anyway.

SolvableKnave

Zillah wrote: »

Yup. But if she's close enough to hack it, she can destroy it in about 1.5 seconds anyway.

True that.

Penn

Zillah wrote: »

Yup. But if she's close enough to hack it, she can destroy it in about 1.5 seconds anyway.

Could give away her position even more that shouting "BEEN HERE THE WHOLE TIME". Hack the damage booster, then shoot the enemies when they don't have enough time and are without a damage booster to kill you.

fixXxer

Roadhog hook 3.0 isn't as bad as I feared. The farther away drop distance means I have to be a little more careful with my head shots, but that's about it. The longer cool down broke my rhythm for a while but now its just been absorbed as part of the character.

madcabbage

The hook ain't that bad. People don't pay him the respects he deserves. I usually hook the healers, less stress that way!

Grayditch

Like I said before, after playing him you can see the flaws that balance the hook out.

Zillah

Grayditch wrote: »

Like I said before, after playing him you can see the flaws that balance the hook out.

I wouldn't mind dying to Roadhog slightly more often if it meant dying to the hook a lot less often. There is just something that feels so bullshitty about being grabbed from afar and executed.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote:

I wouldn't mind dying to Roadhog slightly more often if it meant dying to the hook a lot less often. There is just something that feels so bull****ty about being grabbed from afar and executed.

Have you ever given Roadhog an extended play?

Zillah

Depends on what you mean by extended. But it doesn't matter, really. Roadhog is deeply unfun for his opponents. No one else does that. I die more often to other heroes but it's not infuriating to be shot to death by soldier.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote:

Depends on what you mean by extended. But it doesn't matter, really. Roadhog is deeply unfun for his opponents. No one else does that. I die more often to other heroes but it's not infuriating to be shot to death by soldier.

I'd argue Hanzo's magic arrows are worse. At least the hook requires accuracy.

Zillah

I think that's just a silly thing to say. Obviously they both have big hitboxes. But regardless, I get one-shotted by Hanzo about a twentieth as often as I get hooxecuted, and it is about one tenth as annoying.

Also, yeah, such skill. So aim. Wow.
https://gfycat.com/AnguishedUnfitAfricanrockpython

They should put a minimum range at least so they can't abuse the hitbox literally taking up their entire screen.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote:

Also, yeah, such skill. So aim. Wow.

To use your own phrase, that's just silly. The hook goes too far and the hook works too close?

I'm trying to understand the extra strong dislike you have for Hog but I guess there's no point.

Moving on.

Zillah

fixxxer wrote: »

The hook goes too far and the hook works too close?

The hook is supposed to be for nabbing vulnerable people at a distance, right? But to make it more reliable they made it so the victim has a very large hitbox, so it is much easier to aim. But the hitbox doesn't get any smaller close up, so even at point blank range Roadhog doesn't have to aim in the slightest - instead of having to track a moving target and actually shoot them, he just presses shift as a win button and he can't miss, because at close range the hitbox takes up his whole screen.

Even when I play Roadhog it feels cheap. I just mash shift and kill people without earning it.

Grayditch

I seem to die less by his combo since giving him a lot of time. Can't explain how I'm approaching him differently but I'm certainly not being hooked as much. Also +2 seconds on the cooldown now.

Nerf it anymore and he'll be useless.

TitianGerm

Zillah wrote: »

I think that's just a silly thing to say. Obviously they both have big hitboxes. But regardless, I get one-shotted by Hanzo about a twentieth as often as I get hooxecuted, and it is about one tenth as annoying.

Also, yeah, such skill. So aim. Wow.
https://gfycat.com/AnguishedUnfitAfricanrockpython

They should put a minimum range at least so they can't abuse the hitbox literally taking up their entire screen.

Are you out of position? That's what the hook is for, to punish people who make a mistake.

On another note I came across the worst Zen I've ever seen earlier, unfortunately he was on my team He didn't discord or heal once in a four round 2CP map

Grayditch

Winston has gotta be looked into soon.

Zillah

emmetkenny wrote: »

Are you out of position? That's what the hook is for, to punish people who make a mistake.

Yeah I've always found that to be the most facile justification. Actual games as they are played can be a little chaotic, and most maps are not big enough to give you much range over Road. Essentially Roadhog fans think leaving the spawn is being "out of position" if you carry their logic through. It's a fantasy to justify a crappy mechanic.

It's also explicitly absurd when it comes to someone like Reaper, whose job it is to kill tanks at point blank range and can be one-hit executed by Roadhog if he engages him in what is supposed to be Reaper's exact strategy.

fixXxer

Zillah wrote:

It's also explicitly absurd when it comes to someone like Reaper, whose job it is to kill tanks at point blank range and can be one-hit executed by Roadhog if he engages him in what is supposed to be Reaper's exact strategy.

Speaking of facile arguments.... Try not taking him on face to face and you'll do better. Reaper smashes Roadhog in a sneak attack.

TitianGerm

Zillah wrote: »

Yeah I've always found that to be the most facile justification. Actual games as they are played can be a little chaotic, and most maps are not big enough to give you much range over Road. Essentially Roadhog fans think leaving the spawn is being "out of position" if you carry their logic through. It's a fantasy to justify a crappy mechanic.

It's also explicitly absurd when it comes to someone like Reaper, whose job it is to kill tanks at point blank range and can be one-hit executed by Roadhog if he engages him in what is supposed to be Reaper's exact strategy.

Jesus you really dislike him.

I've a grand total of 4 hours on him and that's all in mystery hero's. I've been hooked by him thousands of times and they mainly fall into two categories, the first been poor positioning by me and secondly good play by the Hog. The odd one will be a lucky hook where he's aiming for someone else and I walk straight into it.

On your Reaper point it's moot because Reaper is not meant to go straight for anyone, he is meant to use his abilities and attack from unseen/unexpected locations. Of course if you try to fight a Hog straight on he will hook you and that's just because your doing it wrong. Get behind him, and you can burn him down before he turns a lot of the time. If it doesn't go well Wraith away and challenge again when Hog moves on.

Zillah

fixxxer wrote: »

Speaking of facile arguments.... Try not taking him on face to face and you'll do better. Reaper smashes Roadhog in a sneak attack.

Not really - all he has to do is turn in your general direct and hit the hook, the giant hitbox handles the details. It's gotten to the point where Roadhog, a tank, is considered a decent counter to Reaper (the anti-tank character) because he can kill him so easily at close range. It's the perfect example of how bullshit it is. Reaper spends time manoeuvring, lying in wait, dodging flankers, and launches an ambush, gets three or four shots off and Roadhog presses a single win button (and then heals it all back instantly).

We can go in circles about this indefinitely. No one wants to give up an advantage they have in a game like this, but the fact that the developers are on their fourth hook revision would suggest they agree that it's not exactly working. I don't care about this nearly as much as it might seem based on this thread, but I get frustrated hearing all of the really bad arguments people make in favour of an overpowered ability.

(This is on PC, by the way. It's possible it is much harder for Roadhog to pivot and get a lock on Reaper on console where pads are being used)

fixXxer

Zillah wrote:

We can go in circles about this indefinitely. No one wants to give up an advantage they have in a game like this, but the fact that the developers are on their fourth hook revision would suggest they agree that it's not exactly working. I don't care about this nearly as much as it might seem based on this thread, but I get frustrated hearing all of the really bad arguments people make in favour of an overpowered ability.

The only bad argument I can see is the way you take one facet of a character, ignore everything else and decide that he's broken.

It's like saying mercy is broken because she can bring characters back from the dead.

Zillah

But that's the ability that is broken, the rest doesn't matter. I would prefer Hog have a stronger ult or a better gun if it meant less bullshit hooking.

Sight808

Zillah wrote: »

But that's the ability that is broken, the rest doesn't matter. I would prefer Hog have a stronger ult or a better gun if it meant less bullshit hooking.

I think hook 3.0 is pretty fair, I play a lot of hog and there is way less bs hooks. No longer can you pull people around from ridiculous heights and angles. You even have to aim better now as the player doesn't get pulled in as close and it's on an 8 second cool down now. How much more do you want it nerfed like.

I get what you're saying regarding reaper, but hog is a tank, a sheildless tank, but still a tank and should be blowing dps characters into next week.

Grayditch

He's fine. He gets killed a LOT.

Falthyron

Given the nature of the discussion, I thought it would be nice to show a screenshot of Roadhog's (still) broken chain. This was taken over the weekend. And yes, it is still ridiculous.

Zillah

Sight808 wrote: »

but still a tank and should be blowing dps characters into next week.

Uh...what? What on earth is supposed to be the point of damage dealing characters if they're supposed to automatically lose to tanks? Reapers entire schtick is anti-tank.

Penn

No Orisa tomorrow. Jeff said so on the Blizzard forums.