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Canis Lupus

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Hanzo was hated for the no skill shoot the floor kill a tank shot imo

Hated for that but mostly because he was relatively high skill and people just aren't good at him in the lower levels. Now he's got that rapid fire malarky (which is worse than scatter imo) people can vaguely hit sh*t with him so he's become more acceptable.

K.O.Kiki

If anyone is looking to get a handle on Ashe: a few rounds of Deathmatch (no Bob) might do the trick. Certainly helped me get up to speed on headshotting!

nix

I can see Bob getting a nerf, either his damage or his health pool, and also the fact that he can be used to to capture a point seems just crazy and i cant believe its intentional :eek:

As for Ashe herself, she seems grand in most parts, but one stand out issue i can see is her hip fire accuracy/damage is crazy. She can unload a clip and delete most players in close range, even tanks :pac: There are many stats they could tinker with here, but i think maybe slowing down her rate of fire would make most sense.. Or maybe im just jumping the gun, i havent experienced her much myself, when fighting against her, only Bob is fairly OP. But i can see my other concerns being lethal in the hands of good players. :pac:

TitianGerm

nix wrote: »

I can see Bob getting a nerf, either his damage or his health pool, and also the fact that he can be used to to capture a point seems just crazy and i cant believe its intentional :eek:

As for Ashe herself, she seems grand in most parts, but one stand out issue i can see is her hip fire accuracy/damage is crazy. She can unload a clip and delete most players in close range, even tanks :pac: There are many stats they could tinker with here, but i think maybe slowing down her rate of fire would make most sense.. Or maybe im just jumping the gun, i havent experienced her much myself, when fighting against her, only Bob is fairly OP. But i can see my other concerns being lethal in the hands of good players. :pac:

He's easy enough to stop. Sombra can hack him or Orissa can just fire a shield at him and he won't be able to do any damage to your team. If he's team shotted his health burns down very quickly.

I'd say he actually needs to have the ability to stop him before he hits a wall/object. That way you'd be able to get him into better positions.

fixXxer

Ashe is fun. The boop back and head shot is very satisfying.

TerrorFirmer

I don't think Bob is OP really, incredibly handy and powerful when used effectively but equally can be taken down pretty easily and not as team-devastating as something like Rein's Earthshatter.

On that note, I'm ****e with Ashe. Keep forgetting about the knockback though. Played several rounds of Ilios and never even occured to me to knock someone into the pit.

Canis Lupus

Ashe is such good fun. Really enjoying her the 1 out 10 times I can lock her down in QP :P

K.O.Kiki

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Ashe is such good fun. Really enjoying her the 1 out 10 times I can lock her down in QP :P

Give it a week before all the DPS instalocks revert back to Hanzo/Widow :pac:

Canis Lupus

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Give it a week before all the DPS instalocks revert back to Hanzo/Widow :pac:

I dunno, right now Ashe is ridiculously OP. Widow is surely relegated to second sniper.

fixXxer

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I dunno, right now Ashe is ridiculously OP. Widow is surely relegated to second sniper.

*Checks Teams Mates*

Widow, Hanzo, Ana, Ashe, Mc Cree

*Gets crushed as Triple tanks roll on to point and snipers wont contest*

*picks torb and flings self off nearest cliff*

Welcome to Season 13!!

IvoryTower

Seagull made a video about his problems with the game right now

TLTW - basically says there's too many piss easy hard counters e.g: Brigette countering Tracer

Adventagious

IvoryTower wrote: »

Seagull made a video about his problems with the game right now

TLTW - basically says there's too many piss easy hard counters e.g: Brigette countering Tracer

Don't necessarily agree with everything he says bur he argues his points calmly and well, will be interesting to see if receives any official response.
Certainly he's got a lot of support in the professional/streamer and general community.

Can see OW maybe nerfing ultimates in general but i think it would be further down the line.

IvoryTower

I think it's a different game for people at the very top on pc, grandmaster/top 500. Player selection really matters there. I don't buy it so much as you move down the ladder. Having a Brig in a gold/plat game does not mean your tracer will be useless, playing non meta characters means **** all, if anything its worse for the other team cause they can't handle things like turrets etc. For instance I saw dafran switch off Torb because of Doomfist, where as to me Doomfist is a free kill with Torb. But you see people watch videos/streamers ,learn how the game should be played, then they go back to their gold ranked games, tell everyone they have to change character and have a melter if there's non meta characters etc on their team. Blizzard should make an official statement to everyone on console and below grandmaster that you're all ****e, pick who you want and stop tilting ya big spas

I think I may view the game a bit different to most

raze_them_all_

I would agree tbh. High skill characters your hanzos, widows, mcrees etc take a lot to get value against.

Against Brig for example 1 v 1 what character are you confident taking her on with??

I play junkrat I get way too much value shooting over cover or around cover. Eichwald a I can be at your spawn point coming from behind withing the first 15 odd seconds. Then I just gotta spam. While a hanzo has to try a load of shots to break a shield only for it to go straight up

IvoryTower

brig getting nerfed again, good stuff

Sight808

IvoryTower wrote: »

brig getting nerfed again, good stuff

She's a stupid hero. On capturing point A on hanamura I swapped to brig, I beat the tar out of an orisa and hog to cap the point. That shouldn't happen.

IvoryTower

she's a good answer for tracer mind

Sight808

IvoryTower wrote: »

she's a good answer for tracer mind

True but it's too easy, a hero classed as a support should not be able to roll two tanks. Fair enough it was a plat game and would never happen higher up the ladder (the hog missed 2 hooks and orisa couldn't aim for shiz)

Canis Lupus

IvoryTower wrote: »

she's a good answer for tracer mind

I agree with Seagulls video though. She shouldn't be such a hard counter.

Tracer is such a skill cap char. The more you train the better you get and you've to really think about positioning and timing along with mechanical ability.

Brig is..... hold left mouse.

They need to consider removing Brig from the game or completely re work her. She really makes the game unpleasant.

raze_them_all_

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I agree with Seagulls video though. She shouldn't be such a hard counter.

Tracer is such a skill cap char. The more you train the better you get and you've to really think about positioning and timing along with mechanical ability.

Brig is..... hold left mouse.

They need to consider removing Brig from the game or completely re work her. She really makes the game unpleasant.

They dropped her shield bash from 50 to 5 which is ****ing stupid it was that high, imagine if mcrees flashbang did 50 damage...

Anima

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/a-breakdown-of-why-brigette-is-broken/47300

Since at least March she's been allowed to run riot without any serious alteration to her. It's a **** game, they have no intention of balancing. They probably don't know how to balance it. It's just a case of learning to play what gets results, if that's what you care about. No point picking a hero and complaining that there is a counter.

The last few heroes they've introduced have made the game worse. Brigette, moira (low skill) and doomfist are just one-button players. Doomfist takes some skill in timing, I guess, but his right-click is just a joke. I'd argue Orisa was a bad inclusion, yet another shield and not really adding anything new. It's just tedious to play against her as a hitscan.

TerrorFirmer

I wouldn't agree any of those made the game worse in principle but Brig definitely needed a shield bash nerf big time. Having said that, I don't think she was entirely 'running riot' either in the broadest sense, at most tiers for most people. Probably affected the highest levels primarily.

I also wouldn't agree Moira is a low skill player if you're playing her right. She's a cheap and easy DPS if you play her that way but that doesn't really contribute feck all to the team overall. She's an amazing healer if handled well.

You could argue mercy is just a 'one click' player in that sense but there's a vast gulf between a bad Mercy and a good Mercy, same with Moira....it's about game sense and ability management with characters like that. Doomfist also definitely has a higher skill ceiling then most of the roster. Playing in Gold/Plat it's pretty rare to meet good Doomfist players.

I like Orissa though. It did entirely add something new - another primarily shield option that suits an entirely different style of play to Rein. She's much easier to flank and kill than Rein as well as a DPS. I think she's a really important addition overall.

Personally, I don't mind hard counters and it gets very difficult to balance a game with an increasingly large roster. I mean, it is the whole point of the game....if one character isn't working for whatever reason, switch off to something that does.

raze_them_all_

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I wouldn't agree any of those made the game worse in principle but Brig definitely needed a shield bash nerf big time. Having said that, I don't think she was entirely 'running riot' either in the broadest sense, at most tiers for most people. Probably affected the highest levels primarily.

I also wouldn't agree Moira is a low skill player if you're playing her right. She's a cheap and easy DPS if you play her that way but that doesn't really contribute feck all to the team overall. She's an amazing healer if handled well.

You could argue mercy is just a 'one click' player in that sense but there's a vast gulf between a bad Mercy and a good Mercy, same with Moira....it's about game sense and ability management with characters like that. Doomfist also definitely has a higher skill ceiling then most of the roster. Playing in Gold/Plat it's pretty rare to meet good Doomfist players.

I like Orissa though. It did entirely add something new - another primarily shield option that suits an entirely different style of play to Rein. She's much easier to flank and kill than Rein as well as a DPS. I think she's a really important addition overall.

Personally, I don't mind hard counters and it gets very difficult to balance a game with an increasingly large roster. I mean, it is the whole point of the game....if one character isn't working for whatever reason, switch off to something that does.

Got a 4 k with orissa in the rialto bridge. Ti's hilarious how often that works

FutureGuy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Got a 4 k with orissa in the rialto bridge. Ti's hilarious how often that works

I’ve mained Orissa since her release. Really enjoy those type of map points.

Adventagious

People who can play Orisa baffle me, she seems so reliant on positioning but unless i'm on Illios Well i've no idea where to be!

raze_them_all_

Adventagious wrote: »

People who can play Orisa baffle me, she seems so reliant on positioning but unless i'm on Illios Well i've no idea where to be!

Like all heroes I'd consider her to be map and team dependant. I prefer rein when I'm pushing non payload to her

K.O.Kiki

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

They dropped her shield bash from 50 to 5 which is ****ing stupid it was that high, imagine if mcrees flashbang did 50 damage...

McCree combo is 25+140 HS with a big hitbox on the stun & only 2 attacks (and a followup shot that deals 70-140); Brigitte is 50+35+70.

So not only is she doing 10 less damage on her combo, but the Whipshot pushes them away meaning she's risking 200HP characters getting away.

NOT a fan of these changes on paper; in addition to shield bash NOT WORKING THROUGH SHIELDS it feels like the devs just want to delete her from the meta instead of fixing her properly.

Sight808

https://youtu.be/Zpgx-w4oM_U

Interesting video from YOW. I like a lot of their videos and they make some great points. At times it just elaborates on what Seagull's video explored.

I'd love a clan system or something similar.

raze_them_all_

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

McCree combo is 25+140 HS with a big hitbox on the stun & only 2 attacks (and a followup shot that deals 70-140); Brigitte is 50+35+70.

So not only is she doing 10 less damage on her combo, but the Whipshot pushes them away meaning she's risking 200HP characters getting away.

NOT a fan of these changes on paper; in addition to shield bash NOT WORKING THROUGH SHIELDS it feels like the devs just want to delete her from the meta instead of fixing her properly.

They can't balance the game. They have made too ma y low skill high reward characters and they bring in every new char. They are op as ****. Then spe d the next time to the ext new char fixing the old char

TitianGerm

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

They can't balance the game. They have made too ma y low skill high reward characters and they bring in every new char. They are op as ****. Then spe d the next time to the ext new char fixing the old char

I'm sure this made sense in your head but feck me I can't make head nor tail of what your trying to say