DCM 2014 graduates - the next step onwards

Firedance

annapr wrote: »

Firedance wrote: »

Definitely need to go for it... You can be a Parkrun tourist and come to St Anne's... Nice and flat!

Definitely! its on the list, want to try Ardgillan too, a little less flat (!) but its where I started running so be nice to get back there.

so you me and Gingersnap, anyone else going for sub 25? :-) this could get interesting

annapr

Firedance wrote: »

annapr wrote: »

Definitely! its on the list, want to try Ardgillan too, a little less flat (!) but its where I started running so be nice to get back there.

so you me and Gingersnap, anyone else going for sub 25? :-) this could get interesting

Ardgillen is on my list too, probably too hilly for the sub 25 but such a lovely setting.

Clearlier

Hello again, I'm working my way through everyone, just trying to get a feel for where everyone is at and maybe a suggestion or two that come to me.

Maggot - Thanks for adding in the extra columns to the spreadsheet!

I suspect that you'll get a lot out of the 30 day challenge in terms of injury prevention. Sounds like you've got a few stretches to do from your physio! One thing to keep in mind is that you really want to have similar range of motion in both legs. In my admittedly limited experience the guys who have a longer stride with one leg are more likely to get injured.

Ciaran - You have a nice variety of activities which should hopefully help with injury prevention. The 30 day plan might help. Might also be worth looking into running courses such as chi running and the courses run by Champions Everywhere. I don't agree with everything that is said by either but if you have the time, money and inclination I suspect that you'd get some insight into the movement patterns that you're trying to develop. I've never been on either course so I'm basing my judgement on a mixture of reviews and what they write. There's a possibility that they're not what I think they are!

Chickey - Considering your training you did remarkably well. I'll be interested to see how much you improve with some consistent training!

Dub13 - It looks like you made some fairly quick progress over the summer. There's no doubt that you have the scope to improve your 5k and 10k times. Fairly big miles for a novice runner. It sounds like your body coped well with it though? My only concern is that the plan I have in mind might not be challenging enough for you. I'll talk about how to manage that as best you can when I finish putting it together.

gingersnap - I think that parkruns are a great way to develop a routine for racing. You don't have to do them all out but can get the experience anyway. Sub 25min 5k should be doable and the plan will form the basis for a tilt at any distance you like over the summer.

clickhere - Well done on DCM, considering your background and buildup I'd say that you had a really good result. Plenty of space for you to develop though and hopefully the plan will help you with that.

Laura - I recommend taking a look at this. It's designed as a warm up but can be done at any time. Keys to remember are short strides and really focus on getting the glutes working. If you can do them in front of a mirror look for stability in your upper body. There'll be a very gentle introduction to speed work which I hope you'll find accessible and beneficial!

Soundofthesea - Did you do the boards plan for DCM? A little bit of consistent running should see you improve your HM time. Sounds like you're already aware that injury prevention through core work is important for you. I suspect that the 30 day challenge would give you a few useful ideas on how to avoid injuries.

Pm1e - Welcome to the thread! Are you sure that this is for you? I'm happy to give advice no matter the situation but I have very little knowledge of how to manage triathlon training. The plan that I'll be proposing isn't suitable preparation for a spring marathon. I'm happy to advise you as a runner but I can't honestly tell you what optimal training is when combined with cycling and swimming as it's difficult to judge what volume of training you'll be capable of doing. You're welcome to stick around obviously - I just don't want any illusions about what I might be able to offer you. Looking at your times it's fairly clear that the thing you need to do to get better at running is to run regularly.

tiger - VO2 max is probably the key determinant of most people's 5k times. The sessions that you mention should hit the spot but will be very tough initially. The plan that we'll have here will ease into this type of training. For the lsr given the slowdown between your half and full marathon times there's clearly scope to develop your aerobic capacity so I'd be looking at something between 90 mins and 2 hours reducing down near a target race.

Casey - Your goals all look achievable to me. The marathon one requires the biggest improvement but consistent training will see you a lot of the way there.

Rainrunner - You know your strengths and weaknesses well. Always a good place to start from. Sub 4hrs at DCM 2015 is eminently achievable. I sympathise and empathise with the weight. Just remember that running on its own does very little if anything to shift weight no matter what the calorie counters tell you. If you want to lose weight you pretty much have to do it through your diet.

smashiner - Time to focus! You can do some damage to those PB's particularly in the long races with a bit of consistent training.

Anna - no reason whatsoever you can't dip under 25mins for 5k especially if you are diligent at following plans. May need to wait a little while longer for the sub 20!

Clearlier

hillsiderunner wrote: »

For the Marathon training, I made myself a training schedule based on the "Boards plan" that some of the graduate used for Dublin.... but I've added Tuesday intervals (this is a drop-in session I can go to, and it's only 5 reps), and also have put in some MP sections to some Long Runs because of post-marathon discussions on the Novices thread. Here it is in Google spreadsheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RzUQ3pCF8AksjjSEtPGsWG2H2x62w1Xo3viPazdUGyE/

I was wondering could you take a look at it and see what you think? If you've got this far down the message ...

Happy to take a look but I think that you might need to make it publicly accessible? I get told that I need permission when I click on the link.

Strongly suggest that you sign up for and diligently complete the 30 day challenge. It sounds like the biggest challenge for Paris is actually arriving there in one piece!

Clearlier

Something that probably goes without saying is that I haven't a notion as to how healthy you are to follow a training program. Always err on the side of doing things too easy and if you have concerns about your health go visit your GP.

A quick request of everybody. The first session that I'm going to ask you to do next week is a maximal heart rate test. To do this you're going to need a heart rate monitor. However there's little point in having it just on a once off basis. If you haven't got one already I recommend picking one up. You can get them for less than the price of a pair of running shoes. It's not mandatory obviously but I will be referencing heart rate as a guide to training intensity and I expect that you'll find it helpful.

hillsiderunner

Clearlier wrote: »

Happy to take a look but I think that you might need to make it publicly accessible? I get told that I need permission when I click on the link.

Strongly suggest that you sign up for and diligently complete the 30 day challenge. It sounds like the biggest challenge for Paris is actually arriving there in one piece!

It seems I skipped the "publish" step. Hope it should be viewable now ...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RzUQ3pCF8AksjjSEtPGsWG2H2x62w1Xo3viPazdUGyE/edit?usp=sharing

I saw the 30-day challenge indeed, just haven't committed because the calf/leg stuff is the priority for now!

ChadHogan

I’m throwing my hat into the ring here, I got huge encouragement from the Novices thread and I can already see that this thread will be equally as good. Thanks to Clearlier and Dave for taking the time out to help and it’s already clear the amount of thought and effort going into it.

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set. I'm most interested in 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half and full marathon.

Here are my PB's
5k: 22:07, - mar 2014
10k: 47:06, Apr 14
10 Mile: 1:17:58,Aug 14.
HM: 1:41:48 Sep 14.
Marathon: - DNF - DCM14 – Carried an injury in and knew i didnt have the full 26 miles in me tbh, I had targeted sub 4 and was on target up to 18 Miles before the foot flared up. Conditions had also really worsened at that point, I reckon injury aside maybe 4:10 would have been where I ended up

HM is probably my strongest PB, everything just seemed to go right that day, 10K is probably softest

2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM.
Started running in 2012 when I picked up a shoulder injury playing rugby, which meant I couldn’t train properly with the club. Gave up rugby that summer and did my first race a,10 miler in Sept 2012. Have been running regularly since, first structured plan was for DCM 2014, following the boards plan and had completed 90% until I picked up an injury 2 weeks out. I loved every mile I ran this summer, all the great weather didn’t hurt either.


3) What's your sporting history?
Played Rugby at a decent level for about 15 years up to age 30 - training 2-3 days a week with a game at the weekends. I played in the front row but would have had a good engine “for a big lad” and considered myself aerobically pretty strong, generally found sprinting etc tougher than slower concerted efforts

4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?
I have to confess I have neglected all other forms of training since giving up rugby.


5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?
Tendonitis and inflammation on instep of foot which ruined my DCM. I’m not sure what I can do other than manage this with rest and build back up slowly. first run post DCM is tonight. It could be weight related or I’m just getting used to the accumulation of mileage. I’d be close on 100kg and 6 foot, so I’m not massively tall and could probably do with dropping 10 kg . I still look more like a rugby player than a runner that’s for sure.
Hamstring Tear this summer playing Tag-rugby – First time it ever happened, have not run faster than 5k pace since so it’s something I’ll have to watch


6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?
First up I want to run consistently, That’s just down to me making time. I’ll accept 3 days on a busy week but aiming for 5 as the standard, and hopefully the busy weeks will be few and far between
Main goal is DCM. I think I could have gone sub 4 this year if I wasn’t injured and if conditions were more favourable, so I’d take sub 4 in 2015 but if I’ve improved by summertime I’ll be happy to chase a more aggressive target.
I have a list of races I’d like to do in the next 6 months, but will only do them if they make sense in terms of an overall plan. Raheny 5, Bohermeen HM, MSB 5k, KClub 10k, Terenure 5 and then will do the race series also.

pistol_75

Pm1e wrote: »

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set.
5km - 18.35 Dublin Staff Relay (I run faster when trying to impress the boss 2013 lol)
10km - 41:12 St Stephens Day run with rugby club with a terrible hangover 2013. Half - 1:44:12 Rock n Roll Half 2014
Full - 3:58:53 DCM 2014 My first ever, loved it, ran a negative split and trained against much advice for just 4 weeks

Please do not take this the wrong way but your 5K & 10K times are serious outliers in relation you your 1/2 marathon & Marathon times which are roughly in line with each other.

Have you done any other 5K or 10K races? I know someone who did the staff relay in 2012 and it only measured at 4.2K :eek:

I would think something similar could be possible with the rugby club event, looking at the serious drop off between 10K and 1/2 times.

crisco10

Clearlier wrote: »

Something that probably goes without saying is that I haven't a notion as to how healthy you are to follow a training program. Always err on the side of doing things too easy and if you have concerns about your health go visit your GP.

A quick request of everybody. The first session that I'm going to ask you to do next week is a maximal heart rate test. To do this you're going to need a heart rate monitor. However there's little point in having it just on a once off basis. If you haven't got one already I recommend picking one up. You can get them for less than the price of a pair of running shoes. It's not mandatory obviously but I will be referencing heart rate as a guide to training intensity and I expect that you'll find it helpful.

What is this session?! The suspense is killing me. :-)

Pm1e

Clearlier wrote: »

Pm1e - Welcome to the thread! Are you sure that this is for you? I'm happy to give advice no matter the situation but I have very little knowledge of how to manage triathlon training. The plan that I'll be proposing isn't suitable preparation for a spring marathon. I'm happy to advise you as a runner but I can't honestly tell you what optimal training is when combined with cycling and swimming as it's difficult to judge what volume of training you'll be capable of doing. You're welcome to stick around obviously - I just don't want any illusions about what I might be able to offer you. Looking at your times it's fairly clear that the thing you need to do to get better at running is to run regularly.

Ok no worries so, I will just keep my eye on thread.

Clearlier

crisco10 wrote: »

What is this session?! The suspense is killing me. :-)

In all honesty I haven't decided yet! The point of getting a HR max is to set some training zones and help guide efforts. I don't like the 220-your age or similar formulae because while it's reasonably accurate for many there are outliers that don't fit. While not a big issue for us if max HR is underestimated it will cause problems if it's overestimated. If/when you're trying to be the absolute best that you can be and have a couple of years of consistent training behind you then it might be worthwhile getting a proper test in a lab although by that stage the vast majority of people can train by feel.

I'll probably suggest a couple of options to suit people who might only have access to a treadmill or hills or flat. The most important thing right now is not to overestimate max HR. If anybody comes up with a strange number I'll probably suggest a second attempt unless there's corroborating evidence e.g. from a race.

opus

This is a really interesting thread, just read through it all now. Have signed up for that 30-day challenge even though I really really hate that sort of stuff

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

In all honesty I haven't decided yet! The point of getting a HR max is to set some training zones and help guide efforts. I don't like the 220-your age or similar formulae because while it's reasonably accurate for many there are outliers that don't fit. While not a big issue for us if max HR is underestimated it will cause problems if it's overestimated. If/when you're trying to be the absolute best that you can be and have a couple of years of consistent training behind you then it might be worthwhile getting a proper test in a lab although by that stage the vast majority of people can train by feel.

I'll probably suggest a couple of options to suit people who might only have access to a treadmill or hills or flat. The most important thing right now is not to overestimate max HR. If anybody comes up with a strange number I'll probably suggest a second attempt unless there's corroborating evidence e.g. from a race.

I bought a watch with HR monitor in lidl last year but I've never been able to figure it out properly (training to HR I mean) there were days when I felt I could push more but HR was reading high and other days I thought I was at my max & HR was reading lower. Is there a knack to these?

davemcmahon

Firedance wrote: »

I bought a watch with HR monitor in lidl last year but I've never been able to figure it out properly (training to HR I mean) there were days when I felt I could push more but HR was reading high and other days I thought I was at my max & HR was reading lower. Is there a knack to these?

There's not much point in using the HR until you have established your Max HR and Resting HR. From what Clearier has been saying the session he has planned will help everyone find the HR max. Once this has been worked out it will be possible to work out the training zones for everyone. These zones will be unique to everyone based on results from the session.

The Muppet

Really interesting thread, I'll be hanging around, it sounds like there will be a lot to learn here.

Dubgal72

erk just signed up for the 30 Day Challenge....
Thanks to Laura and Ososlo for getting this going, also to Clearlier and Dave, looking forward to taking on board all your advice over the next few months.

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set. I'm most interested in 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half and full marathon. Any three of those will give me something to work with. More is better. If there's anything peculiar about them (e.g. your marathon PB is from the Snowdon marathon) please let me know!

My one and only 5k was a Fit4Life in August this year: 21:38
No 10k raced yet but have run sub 48 in training and longer races
My one and only 10 mile was the Frank Duffy also in August this year 78:xx
My one and only half marathon was the Dublin half in September this year 1:41:08
My one and only marathon (pattern here?!) was in October this year 3:54:08 (ouch)
All of the above were learning curves re strategy, pace, temperature etc.

2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM.

I began jogging in January after a lay off of 3.5 years. I increased mileage around April to build a base for a 16/18 week marathon plan. In early July I started a RunKeeper/Jeff Gaudette sub 3:45 plan. Training and racing indicated a progression that allowed for a near 3:30 aim but of course that entailed everything going right on the day. It didn't :-)
But I am older and wiser now. I had read on running forums that you need to adjust expectations with each rise of temperature and gently dismissed this as applying to 'American-type' marathons, 'no no, doesn't apply to temperate old Ireland...'


3) What's your sporting history? This can range from you got a note to avoid PE at school all the way up to you represented Ireland at something. Without asking anyone to reveal too much it would helpful if I had an idea as to how far in the distant past the sporting history is.

I have 'previous' ;-) I ran competitively as a teenager and did pretty well on track and cross country national level. A few things went wrong and I spent my 20s running...away from running. I picked up my asics sporadically in my 30s but never joined a club. My 40s....will be the running decade. I hadn't factored in my history but I suppose I have realised that the body doesn't forget.

4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?

I try to work on my core and general strength a couple of times a week but have been a bit slack since DM

5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?

Physio for upper shoulder tenseness (caused by co-sleeping with the babbas). I had an achilles niggle in the summer but have managed that by applying the principles of chi running, improved form and stride strengthening knee bends.
My hip is a bit weak/locks occasionally. The marathon exacerbated this (the race, not the training) but seems to be under control now after a few physio sessions. Looking forward to the benefits of the 30 day challenge!

6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?

Sub 20 for 5k, near 40 for 10k and if all goes well a stab at track 800m, 1500m and 3000m in the spring/summer. I'd like to go sub 2:30, sub 5 and sub 10:20 but that will probably take another year.
Finally, just to enjoy running.

Thanks in advance!

Joleigh

This thread is flying along already! I have a good bit of catching up to do. Hurt my back this morning opening a kitchen cupboard, its so sore. No running for me for the next few days. Raging

Casey78

What's this 30 day challenge everyone is talking about?
Have I missed something?

Mimojo

Casey78 wrote: »

What's this 30 day challenge everyone is talking about?
Have I missed something?

Here ya go, its a few pages back!

Firedance

Joleigh wrote: »

This thread is flying along already! I have a good bit of catching up to do. Hurt my back this morning opening a kitchen cupboard, its so sore. No running for me for the next few days. Raging

Oh no! Hope you recover soon

Dubgal72

Joleigh wrote: »

This thread is flying along already! I have a good bit of catching up to do. Hurt my back this morning opening a kitchen cupboard, its so sore. No running for me for the next few days. Raging

Rotten...any chance you can persuade yourself it's part of the extended recovery plan? Get well soon...

Dubgal72

Just attempted to add my name to the mileage tracker sheet. I may have wrecked it...my name didn't add when I clicked submit.

Jelly Legs

Hi all. Excited to see the new thread and hopefully I'll particapte more in this one

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set.

PBs are as follows:

5k - Remembrance Run Nov 2013 - 27:05
5M - Race Series 2014 - 44:45
10k - Fields of Athenry Dec 2013 - 54:34 (my best PB, had a good training block leading up to this and cold conditions suit me best. Pushed very hard in the race)
10M - Race Series 2014 - 1:35:06
Half Mararhon - Race Series 2014 - 2:06:02
(These are all from memory so may be a few seconds out but are roughly correct)

2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM

Started running with couch to 5k in May 2012. Was running up to 30 miles a week before starting marathon training but consistency is an issue - seem to get bad colds every couple of months which take a while to get over. Followed the boards plan for DCM.


3) What's your sporting history?

Before taking up running I had zero interest in sport but have always walked for about an hour a day.


4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?

None this is a real weakness that I want to change. Have done day 1 of the 30 day challenge and will definitely stick with that.


5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?

No injuries but lots of niggles. Extremely tight calves that need lots of foam rolling and attention.


6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?

After couch to 5k I set my sights on a half marathon (rock n roll August 2013). I thought that I would see improvements in speed after that for 2013/2014 and I haven't so really want to work on that now. Am entered into Jingle Bells 5k in dec to see where I am and hope to work on 5k stuff for the beginning of 2015. I'd also like a crack at half marathon specific training later in the year. Because improvements don't seem to come easy to me I have no times in mind, will be delighted to see my times go downwards.


Thanks clearlier for agreeing to take us all on - hopefully there's lots of good times ahead

Nicsx

Thanks Clearlier & davemcmahon in advance of the advice & guidance you'll be providing in the coming months.

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set. I'm most interested in 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half and full marathon. Any three of those will give me something to work with. More is better. If there's anything peculiar about them (e.g. your marathon PB is from the Snowdon marathon) please let me know!
My PBs are
5k 24.25 Parkrun May 2014
10k 52.14 Great Ireland Run 2012 (Haven't raced a 10k since)
HM 1.58.14 Dublin Race Series 2014
M 4.27.04 DCM 2014

2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM.
I started to jog in 2012 as a New Year's resolution & signed up for the GIR in order to have a target. That was my first race & I took off like the clappers & paid for it in the 2nd half- it put me off jogging for the rest of the year.
2013 started with me signing up for a HM & once again I found it very tough but this time I tried to keep some running going over the year & discovered Parkrun & found them great although I haven't been able to do many of them this year due to busy Saturday mornings.
I loosely followed the Boards plan for DCM in that I had a decent enough weekly mileage from a HM I did at the end of April & decided to keep the LSRs up so by the time October came I had 3 20milers & 2 21milers under my belt (I still found the extra 5 miles rotten).

3) What's your sporting history? This can range from you got a note to avoid PE at school all the way up to you represented Ireland at something. Without asking anyone to reveal too much it would helpful if I had an idea as to how far in the distant past the sporting history is.
I would have been relatively sporty as a teenager - swimming competitively & rowing- but those days are neither today nor yesterday. Up until I started running the most I would have done is golf, not exactly aerobic fitness I know!

4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?
I'm trying to be good about stretches but there's a LOT of room for improvement here.

5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?
Thankfully, I've been injury free bar a tight Achilles that I'm stretching & foam rolling. It hasn't been bad enough to seek attention.

6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?
Ah, the million dollar question....
I'd like to improve my PBs over all distances.
I'm aiming for a couple of Parkruns in the run up to Christmas when my Saturday mornings free up a bit. I'm dying to see if my marathon fitness has made any difference.
I'm hoping to do the Raheny 5mile- never having raced this distance I'm guaranteed a PB!:D
I'd like to do a Spring HM & complete the entire Race Series & finally I'll have another crack at DCM & hopefully knock a large chunk off my time.

rockstar_91

Had the first post-DCM run tonight. Went out with some local runners for a 3.5 mile Run in the Dark. I was treating it as a "blow off the cobwebs" run to bring myself back after two and a half weeks off and to test out the body. I didn't go anywhere near race pace - just a gentle jog.

First proper run in my new trainers too (I'll come to that later).

Firstly, I enjoyed my run immensely. Its only recently that I've started running without headphones and the banter out there was great.A Secondly, it felt so good to be back out in the air again (post DCM has seen me spend a lot of the day with my feet up).

I was very much looking forward to getting out in my new Asics trainers tonight because my old trainers had been due for retirement. I made sure to break them in around the house and in my usual running socks so that I'd be ready for the new experience. Started out well enough, everything was feeling good and the DCM niggles seemed gone. After the first mile however, coming down across a canal bridge, the inside of my right kneecap started to ache, just as it had towards the end of the marathon. This was followed by a sharp pain on the lower side of the outside of my left kneecap. This was an altogether new pain. So annoying because I always make sure to stretch well before I run. In my post run stretches, I tried to figure out what exactly hurt. The only stretch that hurt me was when I did some one-legged squats, which I have always done as part of my stretching routine.

All in all, a bit of a demoralizing night unfortunately. Calling the physio is first thing on the list in the morning

Clearlier

hillsiderunner wrote: »

It seems I skipped the "publish" step. Hope it should be viewable now ...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RzUQ3pCF8AksjjSEtPGsWG2H2x62w1Xo3viPazdUGyE/edit?usp=sharing

I saw the 30-day challenge indeed, just haven't committed because the calf/leg stuff is the priority for now!

Hi Hillside,

It's not a bad plan at all but I have a couple of thoughts which I hope might be helpful.

To get the best out of your training time I would advise dropping the intervals. They're not specific and the progression is a bit haphazard. That said I'm only talking from a training point of view. We're all social animals, we run for lots of reasons including enjoyment and if the intervals are an opportunity to be a bit sociable then that's a pretty good reason to do them. What you might consider doing if time permits is doing a medium long run beforehand with the reps (done at a very easy effort) to finish off. A medium long run is one that you're looking to do at the same effort as an lsr building gradually to a maximum of 1:45 in time on your feet (including whatever time you spend on the intervals if you do them). If you do do this then make sure you adapt the following day to a recovery run. 20-30 mins of really easy jogging is plenty. You don't look to progress this run over the weeks. It's purpose is to get your blood moving around the body and prepare you for the next run. Another compromise might be to do the intervals for the last 6 weeks or so.

You need to build in a couple more down weeks to let your body recover from your training. These are critical to your improvement. 1 week in every 4 or 5 should be an easy week where you drop mileage by 20-25% i.e. significantly.

Hill sprints are great but make sure that they are about 8 seconds long and absolutely not over 10 seconds. They should be a maximal effort (preceded by a thorough warm up) and also full recovery. Given the time of year make sure that you wear layers that you can add and remove as appropriate. Consider alternating these with strides so that you're doing one or the other once a week.

Your lsr's are pretty comprehensive, just be wary of doing any runs that take much longer than your target time for the marathon. The risk/reward analysis of doing such long runs isn't very favourable.

Happy to look at it again if you want. Hope the training goes well for you.

hillsiderunner

Clearlier wrote: »

Hi Hillside,
To get the best out of your training time I would advise dropping the intervals. They're not specific and the progression is a bit haphazard.

The reason they are there are more for the early-months goal of speeding up the parkrun - and also because running-wise I'm a bit of a hermit and am trying to occaaaaaasionally run with other people. The reason the progression looks strange is because there are weeks when I'm not in Edinburgh or have a clash with something else, so I stuck in longer-mile-intervals which would I think would help more with the marathon distance (I guess I could take those ones out though).

You suggested only leaving them for the final 6 weeks.... what do you think of doing them for the first half of the program and dropping them after? (after the parkrun PB is secured ....). The intervals are the one (less conventional) thing I'd like to keep, and they're fixed at 5x650m (the only one of the options I can handle in this Tuesday set-up), and I either run them flat out or not at all. They are officially repeats rather than intervals I think - done on a 6-min clock, to cover the flat-out 650m plus the walk around to recover ....

What you might consider doing if time permits is doing a medium long run beforehand with the reps (done at a very easy effort) to finish off. A medium long run is one that you're looking to do at the same effort as an lsr building gradually to a maximum of 1:45 in time on your feet (including whatever time you spend on the intervals if you do them).

I was trying to get the Thursdays to look a bit like a medium-long run. But 10miles would be about 1:30-1:40 for me ... so maybe the Thursdays are too short in distance?

You need to build in a couple more down weeks to let your body recover from your training. These are critical to your improvement. 1 week in every 4 or 5 should be an easy week where you drop mileage by 20-25% i.e. significantly.

Then I'll do that - I think apart from the recovery this would help me keep a better handle on the injuries .....

Hill sprints are great but make sure that they are about 8 seconds long and absolutely not over 10 seconds. They should be a maximal effort (preceded by a thorough warm up) and also full recovery.

Grand. Plenty of hills on my routes so will be no problem sticking these in ...

Your lsr's are pretty comprehensive, just be wary of doing any runs that take much longer than your target time for the marathon. The risk/reward analysis of doing such long runs isn't very favourable.

Well there will be some extra down-weeks when I revise ... other thing is that even if I didn't officially revise, some down-weeks would happen because of niggles or life-interruptions. Am massively impressed by people who go out for their 5-runs a week like clockwork, but I've never been in that category (even when the DCM training was going well, I wasn't hitting all the runs).

Thanks for the advice :-). At least this plan has gone down better than the original ideas I had in August, which got quite a reaction from Ososlo (being not very marathon-appropriate...)

Clearlier

Chad - Your race times do suggest that you have naturally good endurance. The strength that you have certainly carried over from rugby will eventually disappear. If you're familiar with deadlifts they come recommended by Keith Livingstone in his book Healthy Intelligent Training which is definitely worth a read. If you're not familiar with them don't do them unless you can find someone to show you. It's not difficult to injure yourself doing them the wrong way. You'd probably get a lot out of the 30 day challenge too. Given your recent injury history a slow and steady build up of your training load will be important.

Dubgal - Sounds like you're on top of things. Your PB's are an interesting mix with the 5k being quite a bit better than the 10 mile but the half being if anything slightly better than the 10 mile. The marathon is obviously the result of heat/humidity which you now understand the impact of. (For anyone else reading who isn't sure how they react don't automatically assume that the heat slows you down. For reason that I don't fully comprehend some people simply aren't impacted by the heat).
I think that the plan I'm putting together should suit you well and set you up for a go at training for some track races over the summer.

Joleigh - Hope it's better soon. If there ever was a good time to have an injury this is probably it!

Jelly Legs - Your times hint at the possibility that you're oriented towards endurance. Just a hunch but I suspect that you'll have the capability to improve consistently over a long period of time. Consistency is clearly your issue though. Might be worth reviewing your diet to see if that can help, plenty of vegetables and not too much sugar are principles that seem to help quite a lot of people. Also, might pay off to get a little bit anal about handwashing in public places for a while and see if that helps.

Nic - Like most here there's a steady drop off in performance as the distance of the race grows. Consistent running with steady increases in your training load will really help. No reason why you can't achieve all of your goals.

rockstar - Sorry to hear about the knee. Could it be the runners? Have you used Asics before? that model of Asics before?


Good/essential practice for everyone is to always have two pairs of runners/trainers on the go at any one time. It helps with the transition to a new model where you can use the new one for short runs initially. It also means that if you get them soaked in a puddle one evening and they haven't dried out by the time of your next run you'll still be putting on nice dry ones.

Clearlier

hillsiderunner wrote: »

The reason they are there are more for the early-months goal of speeding up the parkrun - and also because running-wise I'm a bit of a hermit and am trying to occaaaaaasionally run with other people. The reason the progression looks strange is because there are weeks when I'm not in Edinburgh or have a clash with something else, so I stuck in longer-mile-intervals which would I think would help more with the marathon distance (I guess I could take those ones out though).

You suggested only leaving them for the final 6 weeks.... what do you think of doing them for the first half of the program and dropping them after? (after the parkrun PB is secured ....). The intervals are the one (less conventional) thing I'd like to keep, and they're fixed at 5x650m (the only one of the options I can handle in this Tuesday set-up), and I either run them flat out or not at all. They are officially repeats rather than intervals I think - done on a 6-min clock, to cover the flat-out 650m plus the walk around to recover ....

I think that you should do what you enjoy and what makes you happy. If that means it take a couple of minutes longer to finish a marathon then it seems like a reasonable pay off to me. For the weeks that you're not around to do the repeats I suggest a tempo instead of mile repeats, 10 mins of jogging to warm up, 25 mins at a pace that's a bit faster than your marathon pace, 10 mins to warm down. Gradually increase the length of the 25min section.

hillsiderunner wrote: »

I was trying to get the Thursdays to look a bit like a medium-long run. But 10miles would be about 1:30-1:40 for me ... so maybe the Thursdays are too short in distance?

Might be a touch fast. Marathon pace should be a big faster than your lsr pace. Same distance but at lsr pace might be a good compromise. You have marathon pace segments in your lsr's so you should be ok on that front.
a

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Grand. Plenty of hills on my routes so will be no problem sticking these in ...

Hadn't noticed that you are in Edinburgh. Was up there earlier in the year for my brother's stag and flat it is not!

Alan30

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set. I'm most interested in 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half and full marathon. Any three of those will give me something to work with. More is better. If there's anything peculiar about them (e.g. your marathon PB is from the Snowdon marathon) please let me know!
5k- 28:38 15/06/13 Green 5k (first and only 5k race)
10k- 51:12 28/09/13 Ferdia 10k
Half- 1:58:09 16/03/14 DUNE Half
3/4- 3:07:08 05/10/14 Athlone 3/4
Full- 4:39:08 27/10/14 DCM

2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM.
I started jogging about April 2013 getting out about twice a week building up from a base of zero fitness. Completed a 5k race in June 2013 and really enjoyed it and happy that i wasn't last so target a 10k later that summer. Loosely followed HH 10k plan and ran a 58:xx 10k. Was delighted to beat the hour. A few weeks later i ran a 51:12 10k. Continued training regularly until I started a new job in October 2013 and more or less stopped running until January 2014 when i started following HH half marathon plan in prep for DUNE half in March. Post race injury kept me sidelined until May bar a few short jogs. So decide in May to give DCM a go and followed the boards plan for this. Completed most of the planned sessions without an major injuries.

3) What's your sporting history? This can range from you got a note to avoid PE at school all the way up to you represented Ireland at something. Without asking anyone to reveal too much it would helpful if I had an idea as to how far in the distant past the sporting history is.
I played a lot of sport as a kid but stopped most at about 16 or so. layed indoor football from i was 19 until i was about 30 then that fell by the wayside and that was it for 4 years until i started jogging.

4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?
I started a yoga class last Monday.

5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?
No major injuries at present.

6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?
i would like to take my half marathon time down by about 5 mins and I feel as if i have some unfinished business with DCM. No races planned yet but will probably look at the DUNE half again in March.