ICT Specialists (Executive Officer level) in Civil Service

ifElseThen

Makes a complete sham of this type of plan http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/second-progress-report.pdf

"and a progressive reduction in our reliance on relatively expensive ICT consultancy. "

Maximus_1

sneem wrote: »

Hi folks,
I was told about 10 months ago I made the panel and have been rang twice but the jobs were too far away, not sure how long more in the panel but in the off chance I do get something near home can I ask the following.
1. the starter wage is 27k, how soon before you get up to 40k,
2. what pension does a new starter gets these days as after so many public service agreements I'm not sure what data is in date.
3. Anyone in there regret going into this position.
4. Do they allow work from home to avoid along commutes as I live in an rural area.
5. Is it a nice place in general to work compared to the private sector or is a depressing environment.
6. is it easy to move around if you don't get put you in an area you are not skilled in.

I guess the big one though is how quickly is the progression in wages from a badly paid 27k upwards.
I am currently on 50k in private sector.
John

You'd be mad to take a 23k drop unless there is some very good reason. If I were working in Dublin I would say the private IT sector much better paid and from my experience so far that's where the CS IT pretty much is.

Wheety

sneem wrote: »

Hi folks,
I was told about 10 months ago I made the panel and have been rang twice but the jobs were too far away, not sure how long more in the panel but in the off chance I do get something near home can I ask the following.
1. the starter wage is 27k, how soon before you get up to 40k,
2. what pension does a new starter gets these days as after so many public service agreements I'm not sure what data is in date.
3. Anyone in there regret going into this position.
4. Do they allow work from home to avoid along commutes as I live in an rural area.
5. Is it a nice place in general to work compared to the private sector or is a depressing environment.
6. is it easy to move around if you don't get put you in an area you are not skilled in.

I guess the big one though is how quickly is the progression in wages from a badly paid 27k upwards.
I am currently on 50k in private sector.
John

The ICT Specialist is an EO grade. You will get increments for every year if you meed the minimum on the PMDS.

The salary scale is:
€27,739.00 €29,712.00 €30,821.00 €32,687.00 €34,360.00 €35,977.00 €37,588.00 €39,166.00 €40,760.00
€42,311.00 €43,909.00 €44,967.00 €46,473.00 (LSI1) €47,975.00 (LSI2)
Long service increments may be payable after 3(LSI1) and 6(LSI2) years satisfactory service at the maximum of the scale.

Would any of these roles be more suited? It would be a jump in salary.

http://www.publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/campaignAdvert/30336.htm

DublinWriter

Forget it. Within 6 months you'll be doing general CO duties, earning less than someone working in McDonalds for minimum wage. Meanwhile said consultancies will stuff their lazy public sector clients with 21-year old graduates from non-ICT degrees at €1.5K per day a pop and train them up for their prestigious private sector clients at the expense of the Irish taxpayer because they know their public sector clients don't' even perform due-diligence on consultants at the most basic level.

sneem

Thanks Guys,
You have helped me make up my mind and to say no to that panel.
Too much of a paydrop and it sounds like I would be sabotaging my career and my family's quality of life.
Pity, I wasted a few days of my holidays doing aptitude/interview but coming form the private sector this whole grading thing was new to me, -as usually we would get paid for the job done and not by a grading system.
Anyway it was a life lesson.
Thanks all for advice..

The_Conductor

Sorry Sneem- the best way of putting it- is no-one joins the civil service for the pay- absolutely no-one. Contrary to what you hear in the media- it is quite poor- and it most certainly is not a meritocracy. On the Brightside- there are a few non-pay benefits that you probably don't have in the private sector- such as flexi time and the ability to take unpaid leave in summer months if you have young children- however that is the extent of it.

The civil service is not the lush place the media like to make it out to be..........

ifElseThen

DublinWriter wrote: »

Meanwhile said consultancies will stuff their lazy public sector clients with 21-year old graduates from non-ICT degrees at €1.5K per day a pop and train them up for their prestigious private sector clients at the expense of the Irish taxpayer because they know their public sector clients don't' even perform due-diligence on consultants at the most basic level.

On the money. I worked for one of those consultancies with one gov dept. The company brought in a manager for Release Management. His primary degree, a poxy degree in philosophy.

It's such a waste of taxpayer money, zero skills transfer to the CS staff, zero value.

The_Conductor

DublinWriter wrote: »

Forget it. Within 6 months you'll be doing general CO duties, earning less than someone working in McDonalds for minimum wage. Meanwhile said consultancies will stuff their lazy public sector clients with 21-year old graduates from non-ICT degrees at €1.5K per day a pop and train them up for their prestigious private sector clients at the expense of the Irish taxpayer because they know their public sector clients don't' even perform due-diligence on consultants at the most basic level.

You'd be surprised- some Departments have escorted consultants to the door- and one firm that I'm aware of- has been blacklisted because of the calibre of contractors supplied for specific contracts.

Jobsearch16

Does anyone have any information on the Networking and Operations roles? Would it be somewhat similar to the Java and SQL positions in that you would be getting updates from contractors. Would anyone have examples of what the roles involve and level of stress

Thanks

Maximus_1

sneem wrote: »

Thanks Guys,
You have helped me make up my mind and to say no to that panel.
Too much of a paydrop and it sounds like I would be sabotaging my career and my family's quality of life.
Pity, I wasted a few days of my holidays doing aptitude/interview but coming form the private sector this whole grading thing was new to me, -as usually we would get paid for the job done and not by a grading system.
Anyway it was a life lesson.
Thanks all for advice..

I was offered both EO and EO ICT roles. The ICT one was in Dublin so as I'm in the west couldn't take it. I've 15 years IT experience in privste sector but wasn't sure of my job where I was in the west. Ended up taking general EO role for the security of it. Hate it so far but hoping it'll grow on me. Gonna give it a few more months otherwise back on the job hunt. Decent IT jobs West of the shannon are increasingly rare though. Fecking Dublin.

The_Conductor

Maximus- there are genuinely interesting and varied rolls out there. Some of the policy Divisions can be exceptionally varied. There are also a plethora of different offices in different Departments west of the Shannon (even if a number of them are currently amalgamating). If the job is like watching paint dry- ask for a transfer- or alternatively go to the AP/PO and ask for extra duties where you'll actually get use of your aptitudes (if not your skills). Telling someone with 15 years IT to put together snazzy Powerpoint presentations- is a bit like getting Alonso to drive your Mum to church- however, its better than explaining to someone why their DB is being refused over the phone........ Its a game of compromises........

Don't be destroyed by the job- talk to your HEO/AP/PO- take on responsibilities where you can actually bring a bit of variety to your job. A bit of variety- can help.

sneem

Hi guys,
I have one more question. I see the public sector are running another EO ICT campaign again.
Is this the exact same campaign as last year.. or is there anything new in this year recruitment.
Thanks

Jobsearch16

Does anyone have any information on the Networking and Operations roles in the current EO ICT campaign?
Would it be somewhat similar to the Java and SQL positions in that you would be getting updates from contractors.
Would anyone have examples of what the roles involve and level of stress

Thanks

The_Conductor

sneem wrote: »

Hi guys,
I have one more question. I see the public sector are running another EO ICT campaign again.
Is this the exact same campaign as last year.. or is there anything new in this year recruitment.
Thanks

There are normally at least 3-4 separate EO ICT and AO ICT campaigns in any given year (often instigated by individual departments- Finance and the Revenue Commissioners are the main leads on these).

It depends on whether its a general EO ICT or AO ICT- or one called by Revenue for example. I went for an AO ICT interview with Revenue- and was made give a presentation on Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion and measures that could be taken to maximise returns to the Revenue Commissioners (I kid you not- I was going to an IT interview- and this got pulled out of a hat.........)

Check whether its a purely open one- or for a specific Department- and if its for a specific Department- its a reasonable assumption that you'll be expected to have a good handle on whatever the business of the Department might be- despite it being an IT post...........

sneem

Thanks for your help Conductor,
Your help here is very much appreciated.

I have posted the link to the new ict campaign.
Looks the same as last years one again for the civil service
publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/campaignAdvert/30314.htm

However it has split it into more specific areas
It says the following:
There are 2 streams, or areas of specialism in this campaign with opportunities to be placed on panels as follows:
Stream 1
-
ICT Development Specialist-
Dublin Panel
Regional Panel

Stream 2 -
ICT Infrastructure and Operations Specialist
Dublin Panel
Regional Panel

However the pay again is

"The Executive Officer (EO) Standard Salary scale will apply to this position"


so looks again like 27k salary on this one too if coming from the private sector unfortunately.
Thanks again

2RockMountain

The_Conductor wrote: »

You'd be surprised- some Departments have escorted consultants to the door- and one firm that I'm aware of- has been blacklisted because of the calibre of contractors supplied for specific contracts.

Wouldn't it be a breach of procurement rules to blacklist any supplier? They could certainly cancel a contract if the contractor is not meeting the terms, but they couldn't stop the contractor for tendering again next time round.

TheChevron

Our HR Department only circulated this today :mad:

rostalof

You can still apply until midnight tonight.

Back2work

I am looking to return to work after being sick for 3 yrs. I have been looking at the Operations stream of these EO roles. However, I have been reluctant because of the gap in my cv. Could someone tell me if the public sector is as discriminatory as the private sector as regards gaps? I was going to be honest and state the gap was due to illness. Would this be a good idea? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

2RockMountain

Back2work wrote: »

I am looking to return to work after being sick for 3 yrs. I have been looking at the Operations stream of these EO roles. However, I have been reluctant because of the gap in my cv. Could someone tell me if the public sector is as discriminatory as the private sector as regards gaps? I was going to be honest and state the gap was due to illness. Would this be a good idea? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Go for it. You'll need interview practice, so submit your application anyway. You've little to lose.

rostalof

I'd say go for it too. I had a year of unemployment on my application for the original competition launched in November 2014 and it didn't affect my application. I got the job, I'm currently employed as an EO (ICT). Gaps in your CV definitely go against you in the private sector IMO.

Back2work

Unfortunately, I was too late with my upload, the link was gone. Thank you for your advice. I do think the public service have a far more affair approach. I am dreading going down the private sector route

The_Conductor

Back2work wrote: »

I am looking to return to work after being sick for 3 yrs. I have been looking at the Operations stream of these EO roles. However, I have been reluctant because of the gap in my cv. Could someone tell me if the public sector is as discriminatory as the private sector as regards gaps? I was going to be honest and state the gap was due to illness. Would this be a good idea? Any advice would be greatly appreciated

In the public sector- where you have gaps in your CV due to illness- the standard practice is to forward your details, with your permission, to the CMO, for an opinion as to whether you are suitable from a health perspective for the post. Usually the CMO would request a doctor to doctor report from your consultant (not GP) confirming this. Any offer made- would be subject to a suitability confirmation from the CMO (which can take a while).

CryWolf

Hi Sneem and and I also have applied for the new batch of ict specialist posts.

Unfortunately the last time I was unsuccessful:(

There are new criteria for the selection of this panel of people, just wondering and maybe the Conductor can answer this one.....Will there be aptitude tests this time? Below is the selection criteria:

Selection Methods
The selection may include:
• shortlisting of candidates on the basis of the information contained in their application
• a competitive preliminary interview
• completion of online questionnaire(s)
• presentation or other exercises
• a final competitive interview
• work sample/role play/ media exercise, and any other tests or exercises that may be deemed appropriate

Also it appears to me and this is just an observation that the Consultants getting €98,000 and the like need a very qualified Software person watching over them and making sure their input to the systems is not to serve them personally and keep them in their jobs..... but to actually do the job they were HIRED TO DO. And its a pity that the qualified people like yourself Conductor and the rest of the people employed in ict in the civil service as a whole, cannot work more closely together to keep an eye on this practice.

Just an observation

Can anybody shed some light on what criteria will be used this time to select the ict people?

Thanks and keep up the really good work :-)

The_Conductor

CryWolf-

Its the exact same as the EO selection process- the only difference is you will probably be quizzed on your ICT background by an ICT HEO and/or AP during the interview. There has not, thus far, been separate selection testing for ICT staff........

CryWolf

Thanks Conductor for your answer

This was the 2014 selection Criteria a bit different from the selection list above.......

3. Selection Process
The selection process may comprise of a number of stages. Applicants must successfully complete each stage before being considered for advancement to the next stage. Selection methods may include one or more of the following:
• Tests or exercises deemed appropriate;
• Presentation exercise;
• On-line assessment tests;
• Questionnaires;
• Short listing of candidates on the basis of the information contained in their application;
• Interview(s). This may include a preliminary interview(s)

Separate interviews may be conducted to determine suitability for particular specialist posts.

Just wondering will they do online tests?

Maybe they just turned it around to change it up a bit

The_Conductor

It depends........
I got an ICT interview in Revenue- and had to give a presentation on tax avoidance and methods Irish Revenue can use to mitigate against them......... This was for a purely ICT role. I nearly had heart failure. I did have the topic 2 weeks in advance- and was debating not turning up- but instead- I went and did a crash course in tax with an accountant and a tax consultant. I didn't get the interview- though I did get feedback which stated the panel were impressed with my presentation..........

It depends..........

CryWolf

Mmmmm......that would have been my worst nightmare Conductor :-(
And I would also debate turning up to that one. But fair play to you and you
put that much work into the interview....blast it they didn't give it to you????????
Have heard that Revenue are stickler's though.........but if they want a tax ict specialist,
they should specify that. But that is not going to get their work done or their ict sorted. You are either qualified or not and most of us have at least the level 6

rostalof

I came through the EO ICT competition that started in November 2014. The selection process was,

1. Numbers were whittled down by screening CV's.

2. A large number were called for psychometric/aptitude tests.

3. Applicants were placed on a panel in order of merit, rated by the results of the tests.

4. Applicants were called to interview. They called 66 first. Then they moved on down the interview panel as the need arose.

It seems both sets of criteria are more or less the same, just worded and ordered differently. I've re-ordered them to show the similarities.

2016

• Shortlisting of candidates on the basis of the information contained in their application
• work sample/role play/ media exercise, and any other tests or exercises that may be deemed appropriate
• presentation or other exercises
• completion of online questionnaire(s)
• a competitive preliminary interview
• a final competitive interview


2014

• Short listing of candidates on the basis of the information contained in their application;
• Tests or exercises deemed appropriate;
• Presentation exercise;
• On-line assessment tests;
• Questionnaires;
• Interview(s). This may include a preliminary interview(s)

CryWolf

Rostalof I see what you mean allright.............

Will wait and see what comes of it.........

Application gone in...........

thanks everyone