The ITV Thread

hotmail.com

icdg wrote: »

The scenery idents will be ditched in September according to today's Sunday Times, with a reworked logo. I'm not sure what good that's going to do when it's programming that's the issue. A tale doing the rounds this week is that UTV are being frustrated by TV3 counterprogramming with repeats of the same programmes.

The "outside of Dublin" images aren't working so.

They are probably going to for a more modern look. Big problem is that their only big programme is a slowly dying older audience programme..Corrie.

Elmo

hotmail.com wrote: »

The "outside of Dublin" images aren't working so.

Not the issue, pointless exercise.

icdg

It is pointless. Reading between the lines I'd imagine the presentation will be brought more into line with the NI station - ditching the green for blue/purple/whatever they decide it is this week and using the normal UTV logo. But people don't watch a station for the idents. There's a big analysis piece in yesterday's SB Post (full page). Wilson is blaming TV3 counterprogramming with repeats of the same programmes that are getting higher viewing. Eventually TV3 will lose those rights but UTV needs to do something before shareholders start calling for heads. As I say I don't think UTV Ireland will close, in the next twelve months at any rate, but one prospect I think might be examined is whether the public service requirements are worth being on Saorview if it isn't pulling in the extra audience. A possiblity to lower the cost base drastically would be to ditch the news operation and carriage on Saorview, remaining on UPC and Sky.

channelsurfer2

I am one of those with saorview and have to say I haven't watched more than a handful of programmes on it as I have UTV HD on the combi receiver, which is miles ahead in terms of picture quality and content.

political analyst

icdg wrote: »

It is pointless. Reading between the lines I'd imagine the presentation will be brought more into line with the NI station - ditching the green for blue/purple/whatever they decide it is this week and using the normal UTV logo. But people don't watch a station for the idents. There's a big analysis piece in yesterday's SB Post (full page). Wilson is blaming TV3 counterprogramming with repeats of the same programmes that are getting higher viewing. Eventually TV3 will lose those rights but UTV needs to do something before shareholders start calling for heads. As I say I don't think UTV Ireland will close, in the next twelve months at any rate, but one prospect I think might be examined is whether the public service requirements are worth being on Saorview if it isn't pulling in the extra audience. A possiblity to lower the cost base drastically would be to ditch the news operation and carriage on Saorview, remaining on UPC and Sky.

Viewers on Saorview who don't have overspill from NI or England and Wales and who watch the soaps on UTV Ireland would not be pleased about that.

channelsurfer2

I doubt they will withdraw from Saorview. It would be seen as abject failure on their part. The article mentions confusion over daytime programming, which isn't helped by not being able to show tipping point or anything that's not ITV studios material. I doubt people really care that they are not watching the most up to date episode of Jeremy Kyle!

Sam Russell

It was a disappointment that they chose to go SD on Saorview and I think that a withdrawal from Saorview would be tantamount to the end of UTVi. It could give UPC the excuse to revert to UTV.

I think they need to copy TV3's move to home produced programmes, and not rely on the rubbish stuff they have now. Their news is not bad the few times I have watched it, but the pre-pubescent presenters do not carry the gravitas needed by newscasters.

Wasn't Pat Kenny supposed to be on it? If he was, I never knew about it, which is a sign they are not marketing the station.

lertsnim

Sam Russell wrote: »

Wasn't Pat Kenny supposed to be on it? If he was, I never knew about it, which is a sign they are not marketing the station.

He is doing an awful fluff series talking to various people. The same kind of people he would have had on the Late Late Show. He wasn't great on the Late Late Show so why somebody thought this would be a good move I don't know.

Why UTV Ireland are not using him for his strengths, current affairs, is beyond me.

Elmo

lertsnim wrote: »

He is doing an awful fluff series talking to various people. The same kind of people he would have had on the Late Late Show. He wasn't great on the Late Late Show so why somebody thought this would be a good move I don't know.

Why UTV Ireland are not using him for his strengths, current affairs, is beyond me.

Imagine how bad tubs is!

icdg

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think they need to copy TV3's move to home produced programmes, and not rely on the rubbish stuff they have now.

They're really between a rock and a hard place on that one. On the one hand, home produced programmes undoubtably get in the viewers. On the other hand the further away they move from the ITV network schedule antagonises further the UPC viewers who are still annoyed at the lack of UTV NI.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

They're really between a rock and a hard place on that one. On the one hand, home produced programmes undoubtably get in the viewers. On the other hand the further away they move from the ITV network schedule antagonises further the UPC viewers who are still annoyed at the lack of UTV NI.

Solution for UTV is to let UPC broadcast both. Just rebroadcasting FTA programmes will not win them an audience. 80% of viewers have access to UK TV, so if all they offer is UK TV, then what is their unique offering? Why would anyone bother with them?

irishfeen

UTVI need a big programming/sports acquisition to get people to change station... As I said before the Champions League games they lost to RTÉ/TV3 was a massive mistake - they should have made sure they won both nights to kick off the station.

political analyst

Sam Russell wrote: »

Solution for UTV is to let UPC broadcast both.

That was never gonna happen. TV3 might have taken legal action against UPC because UTV Ireland is a station for the Republic (UTV proper has always been a station licenced for NI only) and TV3 has the Republic rights to the X Factor and other non-ITV Studios programmes. Besides, UTV doesn't want to cannibalise the commercial revenue it aims to get in the Republic.

Sam Russell

political analyst wrote: »

That was never gonna happen. TV3 might have taken legal action against UPC because UTV Ireland is a station for the Republic (UTV proper has always been a station licenced for NI only) and TV3 has the Republic rights to the X Factor and other non-ITV Studios programmes. Besides, UTV doesn't want to cannibalise the commercial revenue it aims to get in the Republic.

The BBC is not licensed in the republic, and UTV used to be on UPC prior to 1st Jan this year, so what has changed? The used to carry those programmes in December last year, so why not this December? That is nonsense. It was either UTV that pulled the plug - mistakenly - because they could have cross promoted the channels, or it was UPC because they did not want to pay the fees.

Both UPC and UTV have lost out over this.

gordongekko

political analyst wrote: »

That was never gonna happen. TV3 might have taken legal action against UPC because UTV Ireland is a station for the Republic (UTV proper has always been a station licenced for NI only) and TV3 has the Republic rights to the X Factor and other non-ITV Studios programmes. Besides, UTV doesn't want to cannibalise the commercial revenue it aims to get in the Republic.

Thegood Friday agreement allows 32 county broadcasting

Elmo

The problem with all Irish TV channels is that they don't real understand their audience.

All Irish channels have 45% of the audience.

UTV Ireland mis-calculated what Irish viewers watch on ITV. Largely speaking most Irish people go to British services for International News and Drama. Some for the more popular end of reality TV competitions and then others for choice.

We don't on mass go to UK TV channels for Gardner's World, DIY SOS and other lifestyle programming (I purposely took those titles).

From Irish channels most Irish expect them to produce some lifestyle and reality, a little drama and High quality serials from England and America.

RTÉ One - Too afraid to show Quality American shows in prime time in case they seem not to be Irish, a repeat showing of Room To Improve will do!
RTÉ2 - Obsessed by yoof reality omg is that a .... type documentaries, and unable to commission other types of programming, while filling schedules with repeats of Friends and continuing to loss Sporting rights
TV3 - Obsessed by In-studio programming that contains Product Placement, with little in terms of quality production.
TG4 - In fairness has a good mix but the language barrier exists for many.
3e - Lucky to be getting the kind of viewers it has considering its schedule dosen't even come close to Channel 6's initial schedule.
UTV Ireland - Too much lifestyle not enough Drama from ITV Studios
RTÉ News Now - A basket case of a channel
RTÉjr - Does it well but pity about it's older brother TRTÉ
Setanta - Lucky to have BT Sports.

political analyst

Sam Russell wrote: »

The BBC is not licensed in the republic, and UTV used to be on UPC prior to 1st Jan this year, so what has changed? The used to carry those programmes in December last year, so why not this December? That is nonsense. It was either UTV that pulled the plug - mistakenly - because they could have cross promoted the channels, or it was UPC because they did not want to pay the fees.

Both UPC and UTV have lost out over this.

With regard to the BBC channels and UPC, UPC TV customers pay a subscription, from which UPC pays BBC Worldwide for the right to broadcast BBC channels.

As far as I know, UTV paid for (non-exclusive) Republic rights for football matches and other programmes so that it could stay on UPC (It's possible that this was said by someone else on boards.ie).

The independent cable provider in my locality has both UTV NI and UTV I probably because it can still do so due to the fact that it is in one of the Border counties.

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

UTV Ireland mis-calculated what Irish viewers watch on ITV. Largely speaking most Irish people go to British services for International News and Drama. Some for the more popular end of reality TV competitions and then others for choice.

Let's put this into perspective: Terrestrial viewers who live outside the overspill areas never had UTV or any of the other ITV network broadcasters. Even Sky didn't have the UK terrestrial channels (except for Channel 5) before digital TV came along.

UPC TV customers still have the BBC and Channel 4 and various news channels for UK and world news. The number of UPC TV customers in the Republic constitutes a small minority of viewers in the Republic and is thus too small for UTV to worry about.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

With regard to the BBC channels and UPC, UPC TV customers pay a subscription, from which UPC pays BBC Worldwide for the right to broadcast BBC channels.

As far as I know, UTV paid for (non-exclusive) Republic rights for football matches and other programmes so that it could stay on UPC (It's possible that this was said by someone else on boards.ie).

The independent cable provider in my locality has both UTV NI and UTV I probably because it can still do so due to the fact that it is in one of the Border counties.

Under the AVWF Directive no government can prevent a channel broadcasting into another EU state.

You have to remember that TV3 were writing letters to the Department of Communications and the BAI to prevent UTV Ireland. I would not be surprised if TV3 asked UPC to drop UTV from their EPG. Spillover, FTA Sat and other smaller cable companies don't matter to TV3.

Your cable provider probably wasn't contacted by TV3. I would have thought most boarder counties were in spillover regions, so why would it matter?

Almost all sport is bought by ITV for both UTV and STV. Could we please stop confusing UTV and STV with ITV. They are 3 separate companies, that hold Channel 3 licences in the UK.

The main British broadcasters pay rights to cover satellite transmissions (BBC, ITV, C4 and C5). Does your cable operator provide channel 5?

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

UPC TV customers still have the BBC and Channel 4 and various news channels for UK and world news. The number of UPC TV customers in the Republic constitutes a small minority of viewers in the Republic and is thus too small for UTV to worry about.

30% or more of the TV is supplied by UPC. Large enough for TV3 to worry.

icdg

340,000 odd homes isn't a "small" minority - it's a huge percentage though well down on its heyday. And it's still absolutely dominant in Dublin.

Arrow in the Knee

The only programme I watched on UTV Ireland was Rare Breed.

When I first heard that UTV Ireland were setting up in the south I foolishly thought they were going to show new programmes whether home made or U.S. imports but in fact its just ITV "plastic paddy" channel to get Republic of Ireland advertising revenue.

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

Your cable provider probably wasn't contacted by TV3. I would have thought most boarder counties were in spillover regions, so why would it matter?

I'm aware that cable transmission of UK channels in the Republic was allowed only in overspill areas until the 1980s.

Elmo wrote: »

Almost all sport is bought by ITV for both UTV and STV. Could we please stop confusing UTV and STV with ITV. They are 3 separate companies, that hold Channel 3 licences in the UK.

I know the layout of the ITV network, which is legally known as Channel 3 and is run by ITV Network Ltd (as opposed to the ITV network regional licences that are held by ITV plc).

Elmo wrote: »

The main British broadcasters pay rights to cover satellite transmissions (BBC, ITV, C4 and C5).

I've known that all along.

Elmo wrote: »

Does your cable operator provide channel 5?

Yes.

By the way, I know what channels are available on the local cable provider because I've seen the list in the window of the provider's premises. I live outside the town and thus rely on terrestrial overspill for the UK channels (I also have a Sky Digibox that has FTA channels only).

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

30% or more of the TV is supplied by UPC. Large enough for TV3 to worry.

I doubt that UTV would have anything to worry about. How popular were those programmes that UTV NI had but UTV I doesn't have among UPC viewers? I doubt that UTV would be worried about UPC viewers no longer having ITV News (given that a multitude of news providers is still available to UPC viewers).

political analyst

icdg wrote: »

340,000 odd homes isn't a "small" minority - it's a huge percentage though well down on its heyday. And it's still absolutely dominant in Dublin.

Are there really that many homes that use UPC for TV?

icdg

political analyst wrote: »

I'm aware that cable transmission of UK channels in the Republic was allowed only in overspill areas until the 1980s.

It's not that it wasnt "allowed" - it was technically very difficult to do without some sort of off air feed back then. But Cork was cabled very early on, for example.

I know the layout of the ITV network, which is legally known as Channel 3 and is run by ITV Network Ltd (as opposed to the ITV network regional licences that are held by ITV plc).
).

ITV Network Limited is now more or less defunct since the new Networking Arrangements came into being in 2013. Under the new arrangements ITV plc has full control over the ITV network schedule and the old federal structure was dismantled. UTV and STV pay a (much discounted) fee to broadcast the network schedule. It has to be said that it was defunct for all practical purposes since 2004 anyway, since ITV plc had enough votes to take any network decision on its own.

Mezcita

political analyst wrote: »

Are there really that many homes that use UPC for TV?

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/upc-loses-36000-tv-customers-over-the-last-year-31206984.html

386,500 in May 2015.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

By the way, I know what channels are available on the local cable provider because I've seen the list in the window of the provider's premises. I live outside the town and thus rely on terrestrial overspill for the UK channels (I also have a Sky Digibox that has FTA channels only).

UPC and AFAIK the cable companies that merged into UPC never had Channel 5. My point being that Channel 5, TV3 and UTV really don't care what smaller local operators do.

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

UPC and AFAIK the cable companies that merged into UPC never had Channel 5.

I've always known that.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

I've always known that.

But local companies in Spillover areas in boarder areas and on the East Coast have always provided access to Channel 5, makes you think.

Anyway my point was lost. None of the Irish channel really know the audience and have lost 40% of that audience in the last 9 years, pretty damning figure.