Repurpose room

Lau2976

I have been renting in the same place for about 8 months now. It's two bedrooms but one is completely empty (no furniture at all) and has been used as storage. I recently placed my easel and work materials in there as I am an artist who works from home. My LL is claiming this breaches my lease as I am repurposing the room. I have not moved anything (there was nothing there to move!), have not damaged anything and have no permanent fixtures anywhere

Is he right? My lease states that I can't remove his furniture or redecorate a room with permission but I have done neither?

Michael D Not Higgins

He had no issue with using the room as storage (technically repurposed), what would happen if you got a small campbed and put it in the corner? Back to being a bedroom, which just happens to have some other stuff in it.

In all honesty, he's worried you're going to get paint or something all over the room if it's becoming your studio. Have a word with him about his fears, you could come to some agreement, an additional security deposit, for example.

o1s1n

How did he find out in the first place?

Mrs OBumble

More importantly, what does your lease say about working from home? I've seen at least one which explicitly forbids it.

Gatling

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

More importantly, what does your lease say about working from home? I've seen at least one which explicitly forbids it.

A bit odd how would you even police it ,

o1s1n

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

More importantly, what does your lease say about working from home? I've seen at least one which explicitly forbids it.

It might fall under 'running a business from home' which when you think about it, in the landlord eyes might increase footfall into the apartment, more noise etc.

Still, I'd be interested in knowing how the landlord became aware? Seems like an odd thing for him to find out. How is he to know it's not just hobby painting?

Michael D Not Higgins

o1s1n wrote: »

How did he find out in the first place?

Seriously? Some landlords do routine inspections and look after their properties. Walking by the bedroom, easel set up, landlord instantly thinks paint all over the gaff.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

More importantly, what does your lease say about working from home? I've seen at least one which explicitly forbids it.

I've seen ones that forbid business taking place. The OP is not running a gallery from their home. I agree there's a fine line here, but if I'm checking my emails at home does that mean I've breached my lease? How about if I spend a whole day working from home?

Presumably the OP's business actually takes place outside the apartment.

Mrs OBumble

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Presumably the OP's business actually takes place outside the apartment.

I guess that depends on what the OP is painting pictures of. In the LL's eyes, using a bedroom for this purpose may also raise questions about whether the models have clothes on during a sitting, and what other activities may be carried out before and afterwards.

(OP - I have no idea what you paint. Just saying it how a LL might see it.)

Gatling

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess that depends on what the OP is painting pictures of. In the LL's eyes, using a bedroom for this purpose may also raise questions about whether the models have clothes on during a sitting, and what other activities may be carried out before and afterwards.

(OP - I have no idea what you paint. Just saying it how a LL might see it.)

No nudity clause might help

Arbiter of Good Taste

o1s1n wrote: »

It might fall under 'running a business from home' which when you think about it, in the landlord eyes might increase footfall into the apartment, more noise etc.

Still, I'd be interested in knowing how the landlord became aware? Seems like an odd thing for him to find out. How is he to know it's not just hobby painting?

I presume running a business from home - as opposed to an employee working from home with their lap top once in a while - will impact the landlord's insurance. If that is the case, apart from the risk of paint damage, I wouldn't be happy with it as a landlord myself.

o1s1n

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Seriously? Some landlords do routine inspections and look after their properties. Walking by the bedroom, easel set up, landlord instantly thinks paint all over the gaff.

Yes, 'seriously' - in all my time renting, no landlord has ever asked if they can inspect the place during tenancy.

Even if he did come by for an inspection, why would he assume it's a business? Most people would paint at home as a hobby.

Unless he objects to the OP painting at home in the spare room completely and it's nothing to do with 'working from home'?

Basically I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the objection, is he worried about the spare room being used as a painting studio (damage being the concern) or if he has issue with a business running from home (so footfall, noise generation)

If it's the second one it would have been easily for the OP to say it's just his hobby room.

GarIT

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess that depends on what the OP is painting pictures of. In the LL's eyes, using a bedroom for this purpose may also raise questions about whether the models have clothes on during a sitting, and what other activities may be carried out before and afterwards.

(OP - I have no idea what you paint. Just saying it how a LL might see it.)

Headlines tomorrow. Tenant found to be naked and having sex in rented apartment. Shocker

drumswan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess that depends on what the OP is painting pictures of. In the LL's eyes, using a bedroom for this purpose may also raise questions about whether the models have clothes on during a sitting, and what other activities may be carried out before and afterwards.

Wtf are you ****eing on about?

Triceratops Ballet

The OP stated that she is an artist who works from home, so she was already painting at home before this became an issue. I assume that this painting was taking place previously in the kitchen or living room and now it is taking place in the empty bedroom.

The question is about the use of an empty room, and I would see no reason why the LL should have a problem with the op painting in a room that has no furniture in it. Is a bedroom still a bedroom if it has no bed? if not how can it be being re-purposed? Imo painting in this empty room has to be easier on wear and tear than if she was painting in a furnished room like the living room.

tenifan

He might have visions of his room being covered with splashes of paint. Or he might not like the idea you're running a business from home..
Or alternatively, he might want to hike the rent and is looking for an excuse to terminate your lease early.
Who knows?

Michael D Not Higgins

I have visions of Brian from Spaced.

foggy_lad

just waiting for a post by a worried landlord who thinks his tenant is a good artist but is worried she might cut off her ear in his spare room now she has made it her studio.

drumswan

"Dear Landlord, I know Im paying you twelve thousand quid a year for a lease on this property but do you mind if I paint a picture?"

The mind boggles.

Michael D Not Higgins

o1s1n wrote: »

Yes, 'seriously' - in all my time renting, no landlord has ever asked if they can inspect the place during tenancy.

Even if he did come by for an inspection, why would he assume it's a business? Most people would paint at home as a hobby.

Unless he objects to the OP painting at home in the spare room completely and it's nothing to do with 'working from home'?

Basically I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the objection, is he worried about the spare room being used as a painting studio (damage being the concern) or if he has issue with a business running from home (so footfall, noise generation)

If it's the second one it would have been easily for the OP to say it's just his hobby room.

Some landlords do inspections, and he is likely to know that his tenant is an artist, hence the connection. Or the OP may have said they're doing their painting there now.

I agree that the fears of the landlord do determine what course of action should be taken. In my own mind, I'd say he's worried about paint damage. As I said it's unlikely the OP has a gallery being run from the place.

Michael D Not Higgins

drumswan wrote: »

"Dear Landlord, I know Im paying you twelve thousand quid a year for a lease on this property but do you mind if I paint a picture?"

The mind boggles.

"Dear Landlord, I know I'm paying a fraction of the cost of your asset in order to use it for my own purpose, but do you mind if I do something that could case more damage than the security deposit covers when I have no intention to pay for it?"

Two can play at that game. I've already advised that the OP should suggest a deposit increase to cover potential issues from the painting. It's hardly just one picture either, if it's the OP's main job it could be 8-10 hours a day of potential damage from paint, thinners, etc.

drumswan

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

"Dear Landlord, I know I'm paying a fraction of the cost of your asset in order to use it for my own purpose, but do you mind if I do something that could case more damage than the security deposit covers when I have no intention to pay for it?"

Two can play at that game. I've already advised that the OP should suggest a deposit increase to cover potential issues from the painting. It's hardly just one picture either, if it's the OP's main job it could be 8-10 hours a day of potential damage from paint, thinners, etc.

Its none of a landlords business if a tenant wants to set up an easel and paint pictures, in any room. The kitchen, the bathroom, the attic, wherever.

If you dont want someone doing something perfectly normal in your property, dont lease it to someone else.

Only in Ireland have I encountered this bizarre idea that a landlord is like your daddy and can drop by and tell you not to be oil painting in case you splash his carpet.

Its very possible that the landlord is looking for an angle to terminate the lease and take advantage of rising rents. I would not advise handing over a further security deposit given the bizarre behaviour from him already, he sounds like the cowboy type.

Michael D Not Higgins

drumswan wrote: »

Its none of a landlords business if a tenant wants to set up an easel and paint pictures, in any room. The kitchen, the bathroom, the attic, wherever.

If you dont want someone doing something perfectly normal in your property, dont lease it to someone else.

Only in Ireland have I encountered this bizarre idea that a landlord is like your daddy and can drop by and tell you not to be oil painting in case you splash his carpet.

Its very possible that the landlord is looking for an angle to terminate the lease and take advantage of rising rents. I would not advise handing over a further security deposit given the bizarre behaviour from him already, he sounds like the cowboy type.

It's quite possibly he is looking to take advantage, but there's a difference between someone doing the odd bit of painting and someone whose full time job is painting taking place in the apartment.

One thing to take into account is RTA 2005 3(2)(a) which says the Act doesn't apply to places used for business.

“business” means any trade, profession or business, whether or not it is carried on for gain or reward, any activity for providing cultural, charitable, educational, social or sporting services, and also the public service and the carrying out by an authority being the council of a county, the corporation of a county or other borough, the council of an urban district, the commissioners of a town, a health board under the Health Act, 1970 , or a harbour authority under the Harbours Act, 1946 , of any of their functions;

I'm not claiming this is the case here, it may not be and I'm not a lawyer so I can't interpret the law's intention or precedents, but if I were a landlord then there two potential problems here that I wouldn't be happy with.

drumswan

The landlord is not objecting to the tenant working from home, he is objecting to the OP 're-purposing the room'.

OP could simply paint in another room.

tenifan

drumswan wrote: »

The landlord is not objecting to the tenant working from home, he is objecting to the OP 're-purposing the room'.

OP could simply paint in another room.

Michael D Not Higgins

drumswan wrote: »

The landlord is not objecting to the tenant working from home, he is objecting to the OP 're-purposing the room'.

OP could simply paint in another room.

But is the objection 'repurposing the room for business use'?

GarIT

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

But is the objection 'repurposing the room for business use'?

From what I can gather from the OP, no.

Michael D Not Higgins

If the landlord has an issue with just that room then move the stuff and say 'no harm, no foul'.

Gatling

So op is renting a two bed /apartment or house paying his/her rent and the landlord is taking issue over hobby equipment ,
Don't know whats worse the obvious breach of privacies or the attitudes the op has committed a major foul against a landlord

Lau2976

Thanks for all the responses! We have an outstanding agreement that anything damaged by my work materials is repaired or replaced. He also has had no objection to be painting in other rooms. Just this one. I thought he may be trying to let out the other room in the bear future but it's just a guess. The reason I've stopped painting in the sitting room is because a new wall has been built which blocks a certain amount of light. I didn't think it woul be an issue as the wall is painted white and there is a generic black carpet.

He has also never had an objection to me working from home and I never allow buyers to view my work in my home. I mainly do abstract and anything else (portraits, landscape, etc) are done on site.

Gatling

Op are you specifically renting a 2 bed or does your lease say otherwise

Lau2976

He also found out as he turned up with a repairman to fix the stove.