Two minute silence at 11am

Egginacup

Lapin wrote: »

What a misunderstanding of the commemoration there.

Well then you tell me what it's all about. Soldiers whose job it is to kill and die anyway are getting all the plaudits, plaques and peace marches?
How about some silence and cenitaphs commemorating the innocent dead of every campaign. Have the memorial date being the start, not the end of the horror. That's, after all when they started dying.

Wreaths, and salutes and flyovers.
And in other news there was no stop in the bombing at 11am over Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or libya.

Your slow bell tolls and half masts make me laugh with disgust.

Lapin

Egginacup wrote: »

Well then you tell me what it's all about. Soldiers whose job it is to kill and die anyway are getting all the plaudits, plaques and peace marches..................

Okay, Here's a brief explaination of what I think its all about.

For every Irish lad that went off to to fight in WWI there is a reason.
There are tens of thousands of reasons why they chose to take part and thats their business. Its not our place to question them and its too late now anyway.

Next time you're with a few close friends whether its down the pub, at a match, at work or wherever have a look around and consider for a minute what your life would be like if they were all killed one by one in the next year or two.

It was no different 100 years ago. Yes they were soldiers and soldiers die in wars. Everyone knows that. But does that make them less worthy of rememberence?

The rights and wrongs of war, or any individual's reasons for taking part in it are not the issue here. An estimated 50,000 Irish lads never came home. The same lads who if they were born 100 years later, could be sitting next to you in the pub, at a match or at your table on your lunch break at work. Everyone has their own personal reasons for the decisions they make. Many of those who never returned would probably concede that they made the wrong decision when they were up to their necks in the mud and shít of the trenches but its too late for that now.

I don't care about wreaths and bells and flypasts. But I do make a point of remembering them and being grateful for the sacrifice they made.

Its only two minutes a year during a very poignant moment in time in world history. Its not much to ask.

And they deserve that much at least.

masculinist

What about a moment of silence for the 618,000 people Cromwell murdered in Ireland ?

http://www.historyireland.com/cromwell/how-many-died-during-cromwells-campaign/

You don't find any moments of silence over in London for those poor people. British imperialist warmongering apologists can shove their poppy where the sun don't shine. In fact they should start at 2 minutes of silence and keep it up and forever shut their mouths because the hypocrisy is deafening. WW1 and 2 was fought not for the rights of small nations [Poland abandoned to Stalin for example so no different than abandoning Poland to Hitler in the first place] but for imperial ends so that the likes of Churchill could continue to massacre people in Kenya and be directly responsible for the scale of a famine in India where 3 million lost their lives. And subvert and overthrow legitimate democracies long after the WW2 ended.

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/in-the-media/churchill-in-the-news/575-the-bengali-famine

The poppy and remembrance for British war adventuring just serves to continue the glorification and support of current wars with only a tiny % of them proving legitimate or halfway justified. But whats that I hear you say '''what about supporting the troops who are despite signing up to be killers are innocents... butter wouldnt melt etc?''
If any of those hypocrites actually supported their troops , then their troops wouldn't have to rely on a charity which is what the Poppy basically is.

cloud493

Thats a ridiculous comparison. What exactly could Churchill and Roosevelt have done, in 1944, for Poland? When the Anglo-American armies were still a long way from Poland, while the Red army was already inside the borders? Unless you think another war was preferable.

LorMal

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm highlighting the fact that the poppy is not a commemorative symbol of those who died in WW1/WW2. It is a symbol advocating support for the Crown Forces and all of the campaigns they participated in, regardless of the fact that the majority of these were imperialist adventures abroad that resulted in untold misery for the people whose countries were looted or subjugated.

When you put on a poppy, you are weighing in behind the jingoistic notion that "Our Boys" should be supported whether they were murdering civilians in Derry or beating the sh*t out of prisoners in Iraq. The even sillier notion at play here, is that the British Army is not even our military and our country suffered hugely at the hands of that very organisation but yet every year we get muppets out wearing symbols that glorify them and either couldn't give a sh*t about what they did in Ireland or else stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that the Poppy is simply about WW1 when it's anything but.

I have no problem commemorating Irish people who died in the World Wars, I just don't see why we can't have our own take on it without piggybacking on symbols and events that conform to a wider narrative of British imperialism.

'Crown Forces' blah blah blah....'800 Years of Oppression' blah blah blah..'What about Bloody Sunday?'...blah blah blah. Ad Nauseum.

Karl Stein

Churchill was a racist imperialist. He knew a dangerous thug at the helm of a regime when he saw one.

cloud493

Yeah :rolleyes: still not answering the question, he recognised the dagger to Poland from the soviet Union, sure. How do you stop it without military power you don't have, for a war people probably wouldn't support?

farmerjj

Winty wrote: »

Will you be observing a two minute silence at 11am to mark armistice day

What day?

drumswan

Lapin wrote: »

Okay, Here's a brief explaination of what I think its all about.

For every Irish lad that went off to to fight in WWI there is a reason.
There are tens of thousands of reasons why they chose to take part and thats their business. Its not our place to question them and its too late now anyway.

Next time you're with a few close friends whether its down the pub, at a match, at work or wherever have a look around and consider for a minute what your life would be like if they were all killed one by one in the next year or two.

It was no different 100 years ago. Yes they were soldiers and soldiers die in wars. Everyone knows that. But does that make them less worthy of rememberence?

The rights and wrongs of war, or any individual's reasons for taking part in it are not the issue here. An estimated 50,000 Irish lads never came home. The same lads who if they were born 100 years later, could be sitting next to you in the pub, at a match or at your table on your lunch break at work. Everyone has their own personal reasons for the decisions they make. Many of those who never returned would probably concede that they made the wrong decision when they were up to their necks in the mud and shít of the trenches but its too late for that now.

I don't care about wreaths and bells and flypasts. But I do make a point of remembering them and being grateful for the sacrifice they made.

This is frankly bizarre. Poor, uneducated, semi-literate men were sent to die in wave after wave of senseless attacks, mown down by machine guns and choked by mustard gas, year after year after year - and for what? So Europes elites could moves lines around on a map?

And your response is not horror, or disgust, or outrage, or sadness, but gratitude. Are you grateful towards rape victims too?

Tony EH

OSI wrote: »

Or maybe those of us that use it, have our own meaning for it. For years the crucifix was used a symbol for genocide in the name of Christ. Doesn't mean every time a nun puts on one, that she wilfully glorifies the mass murder of South Americans, does it?

If I stuck a WWII Iron Cross on my chest, would you feel the same way?

AudreyHepburn

drumswan wrote: »

This is frankly bizarre. Poor, uneducated, semi-literate men were sent to die in wave after wave of senseless attacks, mown down by machine guns and choked by mustard gas, year after year after year - and for what? So Europes elites could moves lines around on a map?

And your response is not horror, or disgust, or outrage, or sadness, but gratitude. Are you grateful towards rape victims too?

You can be horror struck and saddened at what those young men were forced to endure and be grateful to them for doing it so we don't have to at the same time you know.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Tony EH

crockholm wrote: »

Rather conflicted on the whole issue-3 great granduncles on my paternal side Went off to fight with one getting killed in France.

As the son of someone who was in the Royal Engineers in WWII, the grandson of someone who was in the Dublin Fusileers in WWII and had 2 grand uncles die in France, I would consider wearing the poppy IF it represented ALL of the war dead, no matter what nation they found themselves fighting under.

But, it doesn't.

So, I don't.

Tony EH

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Aswell as that, I see the whole "Great War", "the greatest sacrifice" stuff as overcompensating. They knew that WW1 accomplished absolutely nothing except death and misery for the soldiers who fought, so it gets played up as THE war of wars to try and convince people that the unbelievable sacrifice of lives and livelihoods was somehow worth it.

You need to find out what is actually meant by "The Great War".

It has nothing to do with it being "great".

drumswan

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You can be horror struck and saddened at what those young men were forced to endure and be grateful to them for doing it so we don't have to at the same time you know.

They didnt have to do it - they died for nothing. Gratitude is not the appropriate response to such a waste of young life, such a response is obscene.

The_Captain

drumswan wrote: »

They didnt have to do it - they died for nothing. Gratitude is not the appropriate response to such a waste of young life, such a response is obscene.

That's the thing isn't it. Some foppy posh boy like Boris Johnson decides to march the entire male population of a decent sized town into German machine gun fire until they run out of bullets just so he can claim a hill and get to act like a big man at dinner at the officers table that night.
Anyone who dares question him gets a bullet in the head for cowardice or insubordination.

Some poor fool dying in the mud in France, never getting to see his wife or kids again, for a pointless war. Towns left full of orphans and widows struggling to feed themselves and mind their children.

I've no anti-British sentiment, but we shouldn't be celebrating these people as heroes and building memorials for their bravery. They should spit on the graves of the people who marched Their Boys to the death.

Germans, Russians, Austro-Hungarians, all the same. The "Officer-class" sending the working man to their deaths for jollies

HamsterFace

The_Captain wrote: »

That's the thing isn't it. Some foppy posh boy like Boris Johnson decides to march the entire male population of a decent sized town into German machine gun fire until they run out of bullets just so he can claim a hill and get to act like a big man at dinner at the officers table that night.
Anyone who dares question him gets a bullet in the head for cowardice or insubordination.

Some poor fool dying in the mud in France, never getting to see his wife or kids again, for a pointless war. Towns left full of orphans and widows struggling to feed themselves and mind their children.

I've no anti-British sentiment, but we shouldn't be celebrating these people as heroes and building memorials for their bravery. They should spit on the graves of the people who marched Their Boys to the death.

Germans, Russians, Austro-Hungarians, all the same. The "Officer-class" sending the working man to their deaths for jollies

This is the first post I've read in this thread and it's true, reminds me of the poem we did in school "Dulcet et
Decorum est" (probably a bad spelling )

crockholm

Tony EH wrote: »

As the son of someone who was in the Royal Engineers in WWII, the grandson of someone who was in the Dublin Fusileers in WWII and had 2 grand uncles die in France, I would consider wearing the poppy IF it represented ALL of the war dead, no matter what nation they found themselves fighting under.

But, it doesn't.

So, I don't.

Agreed.

Like most Irish people,a Quick scan through my family tree sees people who fought with or in conjunction with the British army-grand-uncle with the aussies in Tobruk.Grandmother in the land army,and those who fought against it,same grandmother had a maternal uncle who fought alongside the Boers in South Africa and got his Voulenteers pension after independence.The whole thing is a quagmire of allegiences.

And of course you are right that the Soviet,Japaneese,Italian,German troops also need to be included.From 1944 onwards the Nazi Leadership increasingly sent Young teenagers out to fight battles with predictable disastrous consequences.Their tragically shortened lives ought to be remembered too.

It is time to start bringing the inhabitants of Glencree cemetary into the ceremonies.

Lapin

drumswan wrote: »

This is frankly bizarre. Poor, uneducated, semi-literate men were sent to die in wave after wave of senseless attacks, mown down by machine guns and choked by mustard gas, year after year after year - and for what? So Europes elites could moves lines around on a map?

It takes some effort to cram so much ignorance into such a small amount of words.

drumswan wrote: »

And your response is not horror, or disgust, or outrage, or sadness, but gratitude. Are you grateful towards rape victims too?

And you call my post 'bizarre'.

Lapin

drumswan wrote: »

Poor, uneducated, semi-literate men were sent to die in wave after wave of senseless attack.........

drumswan wrote: »

They didnt have to do it - they died for nothing. Gratitude is not the appropriate response to such a waste of young life, such a response is obscene.

While you're making your mind up let me explain where my gratitude stems from.

I'm grateful that so many answered the call 100 years ago when their country was under direct threat, rather than sitting back on their arses and moaning. They didn't ask for a war - It was forced upon the world. But it wasn't going to disappear just because people didn't like it. Today's world would be an intolerable place if it wasn't for the sacrifice they made.

Bringing rape victims into it to bolster your point is twisted.

FTA69

I'm grateful that so many answered the call 100 years ago when their country was under direct threat, rather than sitting back on their arses and moaning.

Answered the call? Most of the fellas from Britain who died were conscripted without choice. Others were drummed into going with gallant tales of patriotism as well as scaremongering about "Ze Germans" who were probably a better bunch all round than the British Empire at the time anyway. A few others were buoyed by the narrative of protecting "little Belgium", itself an imperial power who was up to its neck in pillaging the Congo merrily chopping off limbs as it did so.

What transpired then was a war where working-class young men from throughout Europe, who had more in common with each other than the bastards who sent them there, slaughtered each other en masse in disgusting and squalid circumstances. WW1 was not a war of "good" and "bad" or for "freedom" or any of the b*llocks. It was a fetid war based on the squabbles of ruling elites. The men who died in the trenches died for nothing but the advancement of one brand of imperialism over another.

"Country under direct threat" my hole. This is exactly the sort of nonsense I was on about earlier where the poppy is linked with a wider trend of jingoism and revisionism.

drumswan

Lapin wrote: »

While you're making your mind up let me explain where my gratitude stems from.

I'm grateful that so many answered the call 100 years ago when their country was under direct threat, rather than sitting back on their arses and moaning. They didn't ask for a war - It was forced upon the world. But it wasn't going to disappear just because people didn't like it. Today's world would be an intolerable place if it wasn't for the sacrifice they made.

Bringing rape victims into it to bolster your point is twisted.

What are you ****eing on about? It was a pointless war, fought for nothing and their lives were wasted for nothing. One set of Europes inbred vermin elite got to stay in power due to forced marching more young working class men to their deaths than the others, what difference would it have made if a Kaiser or an Archduke had won? The soldiers who died arent heroes, they arent to be praised and they didnt give up their lives for any noble cause, quite the opposite. They are to be mourned and the scum which organised their mass murder are to be despised, not lauded with fancy faux-sombre ceremonies led by the direct descendants of the cretins who led the war and continue to cheerlead war today.

They had some child dressed in fatigues laying a wreath on Sky News yesterday, It made me sick.

OldRio

drumswan wrote: »

What are you ****eing on about? It was a pointless war, fought for nothing and their lives were wasted for nothing. One set of Europes inbred vermin elite got to stay in power due to forced marching more young working class men to their deaths than the others, what difference would it have made if a Kaiser or an Archduke had won? The soldiers who died arent heroes, they arent to be praised and they didnt give up their lives for any noble cause, quite the opposite. They are to be mourned and the scum which organised their mass murder are to be despised, not lauded with fancy faux-sombre ceremonies led by the direct descendants of the cretins who led the war and continue to cheerlead war today.

They had some child dressed in fatigues laying a wreath on Sky News yesterday, It made me sick.

Drumswan... I doff my cap to you. One of the finest anti war prose i have read in a long time. Thank you.

ireland.man

OldRio wrote: »

Drumswan... I doff my cap to you. One of the finest anti war prose i have read in a long time. Thank you.

And the only reason you'd disagree with his sentiment is if you've never picked up a history book or instead have fascistic tendencies.

RobertKK

Lapin wrote: »

While you're making your mind up let me explain where my gratitude stems from.

I'm grateful that so many answered the call 100 years ago when their country was under direct threat, rather than sitting back on their arses and moaning. They didn't ask for a war - It was forced upon the world. But it wasn't going to disappear just because people didn't like it. Today's world would be an intolerable place if it wasn't for the sacrifice they made.

Bringing rape victims into it to bolster your point is twisted.

We (Britain and Ireland as it was then) were not under direct threat.
Britain got involved as they saw a potential threat to it's position as the top power in Europe.
The threat was not a real threat. There was no need for Britain to get involved, it did so for selfish reasons.
Then the idiots had the Versailles treaty which caused great resentment in Germany as it was done in a way to humiliate Germany which eventually led to the rise of Nazism.
Getting involved in the end made things far worse.

The people who died 100 years ago from Britain and Ireland died for no good reason, they died from the stupidity of politicians.

The people who were sacrificed died so Germany could be shamed and then we ended up with a bigger mess.

RobertKK

drumswan wrote: »

What are you ****eing on about? It was a pointless war, fought for nothing and their lives were wasted for nothing. One set of Europes inbred vermin elite got to stay in power due to forced marching more young working class men to their deaths than the others, what difference would it have made if a Kaiser or an Archduke had won? The soldiers who died arent heroes, they arent to be praised and they didnt give up their lives for any noble cause, quite the opposite. They are to be mourned and the scum which organised their mass murder are to be despised, not lauded with fancy faux-sombre ceremonies led by the direct descendants of the cretins who led the war and continue to cheerlead war today.

They had some child dressed in fatigues laying a wreath on Sky News yesterday, It made me sick.

Agree with all your post but yes, the child in the military uniform yesterday was so wrong.
Clear propaganda, and what was worse the child saluted as if a soldier.

The promotion of the military is getting worse.

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

Agree with all your post but yes, the child in the military uniform yesterday was so wrong.
Clear propaganda, and what was worse the child saluted as if a soldier.

The promotion of the military is getting worse.

Anyone got a picture of this?

FTA69

Also this "our country was under threat" business is laughable. The only imperialist threat Ireland faced was from England, not Germany.

Skylinehead

Lapin wrote: »

I'm grateful that so many answered the call 100 years ago when their country was under direct threat.

You need to read up on WW1 if you think Britain was in direct threat, other than from the U-boats that happened after the fact.

Alun

RobertKK wrote: »

Agree with all your post but yes, the child in the military uniform yesterday was so wrong.
Clear propaganda, and what was worse the child saluted as if a soldier

He's an army cadet.

topper75

Phoenix wrote: »

I did as do the vast majority do here in Canada to remember the fallen

Fallen? I resent that term. Again, passive - appropriate for victims of a flood or volcano.
We need to get rid of these terms like 'fallen' that just serve to feed jingoism. Why do the misery-sanitizing propagandists fear the full sentence with a human object and subject. Men sent other men out to die. There is no glory in that.

Lapin wrote: »

The rights and wrongs of war, or any individual's reasons for taking part in it are not the issue here.

They very much are at issue.

You talk of sacrifice. The people died. Nobody gained on account of that. WWI was no sacrifice. It was madness.

Don Kedick

I remember I was in the toilet yesterday at 11am, sorry but I wasn't that silent.

RobertKK

Alun wrote: »

He's an army cadet.

13 years old, no one under 18 should be anywhere near an army.

topper75

RobertKK wrote: »

Clear propaganda, and what was worse the child saluted as if a soldier.

There is a sick irony in there that such jingoism was one of the contributing factors back in 1914.
It was popular for boys to be dressed in little sailor suits as a celebration of British naval might for example. You see this in photographs of the time.
War was portrayed as adventure and a chance to perform heroics.

Lapin

The_Captain wrote: »

Some poor fool dying in the mud in France, never getting to see his wife or kids again, for a pointless war.

drumswan wrote: »

What are you ****eing on about? It was a pointless war, fought for nothing and their lives were wasted for nothing.

RobertKK wrote: »

The people who died 100 years ago from Britain and Ireland died for no good reason, they died from the stupidity of politicians.

topper75 wrote: »

Men sent other men out to die. There is no glory in that.

Right then. Lets just forget about them.
Is that what you all suggest?

OldRio wrote: »

Drumswan... I doff my cap to you. One of the finest anti war prose i have read in a long time. Thank you.

This isn't a pro or anti war thread. Its about remembering those who died in the war regardless of the causes or outcomes.

Why can't people get their heads around that?

Lapin

FTA69 wrote: »

Most of the fellas from Britain who died were conscripted without choice.

All my posts on the subject this year related only to the Irish who fought and died in WWI.

drumswan wrote: »

They had some child dressed in fatigues laying a wreath on Sky News yesterday, It made me sick.

Didn't see that but it would make my stomach turn too.

FTA69

Lapin wrote: »

All my posts on the subject this year related only to the Irish who fought and died in WWI.

That makes your point even more ridiculous. How were these fellas defending Ireland from "a direct threat" from Germany? In reality, they signed up for a myriad of reasons; chief amongst them being adventurism, poverty and also the fact they were led there by a political elite who attempted to use them as cannon-fodder to bolster the promise of Home Rule. Of course, the Brits were telling the Unionists the complete opposite thus highlighting the sheer lunacy of tens of thousands of Irishmen dying in a sordid war.

These men didn't die for Ireland, they died for British imperialism and that's the sad fact of the matter.

Lapin

FTA69 wrote: »

That makes your point even more ridiculous. How were these fellas defending Ireland from "a direct threat" from Germany? In reality, they signed up for a myriad of reasons; chief amongst them being adventurism, poverty and also the fact they were led there by a political elite who attempted to use them as cannon-fodder to bolster the promise of Home Rule. Of course, the Brits were telling the Unionists the complete opposite thus highlighting the sheer lunacy of tens of thousands of Irishmen dying in a sordid war.

These men didn't die for Ireland, they died for British imperialism and that's the sad fact of the matter.

I addressed all that in an earlier post.

Damned if I'm going to spend a day going round in circles here debating the motives of 'Brits' and what they were telling Unionists.

Its way off topic.

As I said, the reasons why people joined and fought wasn't the issue yesterday.

It was about remembrance. Nothing more nothing less.

drumswan

Lapin wrote: »

It was about remembrance. Nothing more nothing less.

I thought it was about being grateful for the sacrifices made by the soldiers killed?

topper75

drumswan wrote: »

I thought it was about being grateful for the sacrifices made by the soldiers killed?

"going around in circles" is right.

RobertKK

Lapin wrote: »

Right then. Lets just forget about them.
Is that what you all suggest?

They should be remembered and how it is such a bad idea to join an army led by warmongers, and by joining an army it doesn't make one a hero, and how it is glorified to get people to join.

Instead we get a load of propaganda by the misuse of the dead, so more will join, so they too can become a hero...

NIMAN

The military need these type of days to keep the recruits coming and making joining the Army look like a noble profession.

I watched a Doc recently about guys coming back from Iraq/Afghanistan who had lost limbs in IED explosions.

One guy had only 1 arm left, and no legs. To watch his family say they were so proud of him, and watch him be presented with a poxy medal as some sort of honour was (imho) a fecking joke. A medal!! I'd want my limbs back. Bollix to these warmongers fighting wars, especially ones that achieve sweet fa, which he lost his limbs in.

Lollipops23

I live in Toronto at the moment and the whole poppy day thing had kinda passed me by until last week when a colleague at my temporary job asked why I wasn't wearing one (literally EVERYONE in my office is). I politely explained that the Irish generally don't wear them, as we don't have the rosiest history with the British Army. It's really difficult to explain it to an objective outsider without coming off as petulant and a total RA head tbh.

My office did observe the 2 mins' silence though, and I had no problem at all joining in.

topper75

RobertKK wrote: »

They should be remembered and how it is such a bad idea to join an army led by warmongers, and by joining an army it doesn't make one a hero, and how it is glorified to get people to join.

That is what I would like. Remove all misplaced glorification. Remember it for the hellish misery that it really was. Remember that it achieved very little indeed for anyone back at the 'home fires' either. Remember how authorities so readily and callously used people as pawns to achieve their own ego-driven ends. Remember to ask questions when someone asks you to rally to a flag. Remember to consider what beef you could possibly have with your counterpart in some other land, which you would probably otherwise not even visit, nor he visit yours. Remember that there is no nobility in a pointless death nor heroism in pointless infliction of misery on others.

masculinist

cloud493 wrote: »

Thats a ridiculous comparison. What exactly could Churchill and Roosevelt have done, in 1944, for Poland? When the Anglo-American armies were still a long way from Poland, while the Red army was already inside the borders? Unless you think another war was preferable.

No it's not. This is all about jingoism, the relentless drip drip of positive publicity and photoshoots in RTE pravda over years and years to try normalise the unfair absurdity of a hierarchy of victims and to normalise our dead only being important in the media if they lost their lives for foreign interests .

Fratton Fred

RobertKK wrote: »

The people who died 100 years ago from Britain and Ireland died for no good reason, they died from the stupidity of politicians..

Sounds like they deserve to be remembered then. I suggest two minutes silence on the anniversary of the end of this senseless slaughter.

Fratton Fred

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I live in Toronto at the moment and the whole poppy day thing had kinda passed me by until last week when a colleague at my temporary job asked why I wasn't wearing one (literally EVERYONE in my office is). I politely explained that the Irish generally don't wear them, as we don't have the rosiest history with the British Army. It's really difficult to explain it to an objective outsider without coming off as petulant and a total RA head tbh.

My office did observe the 2 mins' silence though, and I had no problem at all joining in.

I wonder if the Afghan, Iraqi and Syrian villagers being murdered and raped because they happen to follow the wrong flavour of a particular religion, or believe that women should do outrageous things, like learn to read and write, would see things slightly differently.

Don Kedick

If it was just about the World wars then I don't think people would have a problem with the whole poppy thing and so on. The thing is it includes much more than that, it involves all British army actions. That includes the killing of many innocents and it even includes members of the British forces who've tortured people, not to mention the rapists. If you wanted to commemorate the Irish who died during the World wars then I'm sure there's much better ways of doing it.

Galwayguy35

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wonder if the Afghan, Iraqi and Syrian villagers being murdered and raped because they happen to follow the wrong flavour of a particular religion, or believe that women should do outrageous things, like learn to read and write, would see things slightly differently.

Think you're in the wrong thread.

Deenie123

RobertKK wrote: »

13 years old, no one under 18 should be anywhere near an army.

British Army cadets are basically scouts.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wonder if the Afghan, Iraqi and Syrian villagers being murdered and raped because they happen to follow the wrong flavour of a particular religion, or believe that women should do outrageous things, like learn to read and write, would see things slightly differently.

Whats that to do with WW1 Fred?