Dun Laoghaire's "Walking Dead"

Soft Falling Rain

I'm not sure if this was brought up (well I did a search of the forum and got nowt back), but I was listening to Spin 103.8 there and they had a chap on from Dun Laoghaire (that's in Dublin btw) defending the local community's campaign against the methadone clinic in the locality.

What struck me is that the man they had on, the chairman of the community group who spearheaded the campaign, kept on referring to methadone users as "poor unfortunates".

Yet this is a man who is representing a group that produced leaflets that word for word referred to these methadone users as "the walking dead".

Basically he wants the methadone clinic shut down so those who use the clinic can be "diluted" across the city. One of the reasons he gave was that there's no counselling service being provided, even though he admitted he never stepped foot in the place, as well as the fact that every rehab and detox service I've come across do have counselling services.

And that there are methadone clinocs across the city and in other surburban areas, so Dun Laoghaire are not special in this even if they think otherwise.

His whole spiel basically screamed "not in my back yard". Dilute the service being provided to these people by dispersing them across the city to various gps....but just make sure you close the one in Dun Laoghaire. The same locality, btw, that got a homeless hostel closed a couple of years ago.

I know that sometimes it's easy to demonise these people, and maybe there is a problem with how the service is being run. But the whole things just screams opportunism to me i.e. there's a problem with the service but don't fix it, just close it and move it away from us.

I can't seem to find a link so apologies, I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is on the matter.

darkpagandeath

you mean the 3 clinics right not just one, And it's a port town people forget that.

One eyed Jack

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

His whole spiel basically screamed "not in my back yard". Dilute the service being provided to these people by dispersing them across the city to various gps....but just make sure you close the one in Dun Laoghaire. The same locality, btw, that got a homeless hostel closed a couple of years ago.

I know that sometimes it's easy to demonise these people, and maybe there is a problem with how the service is being run. But the whole things just screams opportunism to me i.e. there's a problem with the service but don't fix it, just close it and move it away from us.

I can't seem to find a link so apologies, I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is on the matter.

I wouldn't want a methadone clinic or a homeless hostel in my back yard either tbh. Perfectly understandable why anyone would want to campaign against it.

SEPT 23 1989

They are business owners who are paying hundreds of thousands a year in rates and water rates to the council,people are not shopping there because of the "unwell" hanging around Dun Laoghaire

mikemac1

Joe Duffy will slap you down on RTE if you dare say drug abusers or even just drug users

The correct term is "unwell people"

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This was done to death on Lifeline yesterday. It's OK now, Joe sorted it all out.

darkpagandeath

And methadone clinics don't work, they come in to get their high then hang around the area taking other illegal substances. Was a program on TV about people being on methadone for 20 years.

Soft Falling Rain

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't want a methadone clinic or a homeless hostel in my back yard either tbh. Perfectly understandable why anyone would want to campaign against it.

That's fair enough, but not wanting such a clinic in your back yard is not a legitimate reason for wanting such a service closed.

There's a methadone clinic in my locality, and I've my problems with it (mainly due to dosage issues), but I'd never be demanding it'd be closed because it's become "unsightly". It's a valuable service if people being treated in the correct manner.

RayCon

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And methadone clinics don't work, they come in to get their high then hang around the area taking other illegal substances.

To be honest , If I was an unscrupulous drug dealing sh!thead - this is exactly the type of location I'd target to sell my stuff. Guaranteed footfall.

darkpagandeath

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

That's fair enough, but not wanting such a clinic in your back yard is not a legitimate reason for wanting such a service closed.

There's a methadone clinic in my locality, and I've my problems with it (mainly due to dosage issues), but I'd never be demanding it'd be closed because it's become "unsightly". It's a valuable service if people being treated in the correct manner.

They are only a problem when the patients hang around the area whacked off their faces. On what they got in inside and whatever they can get their hands on in the locality. So there is a problem.

One eyed Jack

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

That's fair enough, but not wanting such a clinic in your back yard is not a legitimate reason for wanting such a service closed.

There's a methadone clinic in my locality, and I've my problems with it (mainly due to dosage issues), but I'd never be demanding it'd be closed because it's become "unsightly". It's a valuable service if people being treated in the correct manner.

You may not consider it a legitimate reason, but I consider the fact that I don't want one in my area is enough reason to campaign for it to be closed.

If the presence of a methadone clinic or homeless hostel in your area doesn't bother you enough to want it closed, then that's fair enough, but you have to understand that it does bother other people, and not in my back yard is as legitimate a reason as any. I can think of many other reasons, such as the reasons you highlight yourself, but I don't need to for most people who would be affected by having a methadone clinic or homeless hostel located in the area in which they live.

drumswan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You may not consider it a legitimate reason, but I consider the fact that I don't want one in my area is enough reason to campaign for it to be closed.

So you want them in other peoples areas then? Or no drug treatment at all?

expectationlost

via rabble https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10538437_794302393948609_6929337577813072346_n.png?oh=91893ff2e810c3cbc679e524abc7eec3&oe=54D2CBD1


https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.251654994880021.60172.126266120752243/794302393948609/?type=1

4 of them ran for election in may none got elected

https://twitter.com/yourtown2014/status/465393435281981440

http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2014L&cons=461

seem to be deliberate campaign to say the most outrageous thing to get notice

http://dunlaoghairerathdown.com/

they wanted to demolish the (admittedly ugly) new library

One eyed Jack

drumswan wrote: »

So you want them in other peoples areas then? Or no drug treatment at all?

I wouldn't particularly care where else they decided to locate beyond the area where I lived.

drumswan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't particularly care where else they decided to locate beyond the area where I lived.

lol, ok chief. At least you are an honest NIMBY I guess

zzboardzz

A sure bless the undead


ot In My BackYard: a person who opposes particular construction or projects in their community. Particularly prominent in New York City.

Good NIMBYism: Jane Jacobs opposing the construction of the Lower Manhattan Expressway, which would have eviscerated the present-day neighborhoods of SoHo, Greenwich Village, and TriBeCa; Jackie Kennedy saving Grand Central Terminal from demolition and replacement with an office tower.

Bad NIMBYism: Fighting the development of a nearby tall building because it might block your view; opposing a new subway line or water tunnel, which would benefit the city for years to come, because of construction noise in your neighborhood; opposing the expansion of the museum across the street because of minor inconveniences, even though it's the primary reason that your property is so valuable. I.E.: Being selfish

Iffy: People who fight LULUs, or Locally Unwanted Land Uses: developments or institutions that are needed, but that nobody wants near them, like homeless shelters or power plants.

BoJack Horseman

Really it comes down to the smack-heads themselves.

Are they from Dun laoghaire?
If so, they should get their methadone in Dun Laoghaire.

end of the road

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I'm not sure if this was brought up (well I did a search of the forum and got nowt back), but I was listening to Spin 103.8 there and they had a chap on from Dun Laoghaire (that's in Dublin btw) defending the local community's campaign against the methadone clinic in the locality.

What struck me is that the man they had on, the chairman of the community group who spearheaded the campaign, kept on referring to methadone users as "poor unfortunates".

Yet this is a man who is representing a group that produced leaflets that word for word referred to these methadone users as "the walking dead".

Basically he wants the methadone clinic shut down so those who use the clinic can be "diluted" across the city. One of the reasons he gave was that there's no counselling service being provided, even though he admitted he never stepped foot in the place, as well as the fact that every rehab and detox service I've come across do have counselling services.

And that there are methadone clinocs across the city and in other surburban areas, so Dun Laoghaire are not special in this even if they think otherwise.

His whole spiel basically screamed "not in my back yard". Dilute the service being provided to these people by dispersing them across the city to various gps....but just make sure you close the one in Dun Laoghaire. The same locality, btw, that got a homeless hostel closed a couple of years ago.

I know that sometimes it's easy to demonise these people, and maybe there is a problem with how the service is being run. But the whole things just screams opportunism to me i.e. there's a problem with the service but don't fix it, just close it and move it away from us.

I can't seem to find a link so apologies, I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is on the matter.

they should be told to put up and shut up. if these people are from the locality its right that they're should be a clinic to deal with the problem. not a nice thing to live beside but thats just tough, they're are many not nice things in the world and we just have to get on with it and make the best of what we've got

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

They are business owners who are paying hundreds of thousands a year in rates and water rates to the council

and? pay up and put up

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

people are not shopping there because of the "unwell" hanging around Dun Laoghaire

no, people aren't shopping there because dublin city and other places have more to offer then dun laoghaire ever will. its as simple as that. dun laoghaire is a dying town and has been for years

hatrickpatrick

Do people think it would be unreasonable to suggest that such centres and their immediate vicinities should have a strong Garda presence in order to make sure there's no subsequent bullsh!t?

Note that I for one don't have a problem with "loitering" by junkies (it's a public street FFS), but with the minority who threaten people with syringes / have shouting matches from one side of the road to the other / etc.

end of the road

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You may not consider it a legitimate reason, but I consider the fact that I don't want one in my area is enough reason to campaign for it to be closed.

its not. its illegitimate

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If the presence of a methadone clinic or homeless hostel in your area doesn't bother you enough to want it closed, then that's fair enough, but you have to understand that it does bother other people, and not in my back yard is as legitimate a reason as any.

its an illegitimate reason. if it bothers people so be it, it has to go somewhere and sometimes people have to put up and get over it.

end of the road

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't particularly care where else they decided to locate beyond the area where I lived.

exactly. such people don't give a **** about others as long as they don't have to put up with it, well put up with it they will, as hopefully their little campain fails

One eyed Jack

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. such people don't give a **** about others as long as they don't have to put up with it, well put up with it they will, as hopefully their little campain fails

They're campaigning because they don't want to have to "put up with it", nor should they be forced to "put up with" anything they disagree with. You disagree with that opinion, yet I wouldn't tell you "You'll just have to put up with it!".

uch

I personally know 4 or 5 of these 'Walking Dead' that are from the Borough and receiving treatment in Dún Laoghaire, they can be intimidating sometimes, but because I know them it doesn't bother me, but I'd imagine that elderly people feel a bit insecure around them as there can be an awful lot of them in the town centre at any given time. Better Policing would help, but these people can spot a Garda at 650 Yards and disappear very quickly, but IMHO they do deserve a chance to recover.

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. such people don't give a **** about others as long as they don't have to put up with it, well put up with it they will, as hopefully their little campain fails

I will not say a word about it if people in the country allow needed infrastructure to be built. Until that happens I have every right to complain. :pac::pac:

Turtyturd

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Really it comes down to the smack-heads themselves.

Are they from Dun laoghaire?
If so, they should get their methadone in Dun Laoghaire.

Vast majority of them would be. It would be very rare for them to travel any great distance to get it. Although I have come across some who have gone to the other side of the city because they didn't want anyone they knew seeing the queuing outside, it tended to only be in cases where they knew they would be switched to take aways quickly though.

hatrickpatrick

uch wrote: »

I personally know 4 or 5 of these 'Walking Dead' that are from the Borough and receiving treatment in Dún Laoghaire, they can be intimidating sometimes, but because I know them it doesn't bother me, but I'd imagine that elderly people feel a bit insecure around them as there can be an awful lot of them in the town centre at any given time. Better Policing would help, but these people can spot a Garda at 650 Yards and disappear very quickly, but IMHO they do deserve a chance to recover.

To be fair I don't think "intimidation" by numbers is a legitimate argument against junkies any more than it is against groups of school children who are doing nothing wrong - if people have an issue with members of the public congregating in public places, IMO that's their issue. It's when a minority actually do something wrong that it becomes a problem, and this is sorted in both cases by having a decent Garda presence.

I know a couple of people who believe that the closure of Garda stations isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it may result in fewer Gardai being confined to desk duties and more of them actively "walking the beat", IE patrolling their areas and just keeping a general eye on what's going on. Personally I find the Gardai in Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove to be incredibly reasonable. I remember for instance a few of them appearing at the Forty Foot one day, and assumed they were going to confiscate a bunch of beer bottles from some college lads who were having a few in the sun nearby. Instead, they went over and chatted to the lads, established that they weren't assholes, asked if they had a designated driver or lived nearby, and then just basically hung around, let everyone get on with it while at the same time keeping an eye lest anything turn sour.

IMO, more of this kind of thing is needed. It's not at the "Gardai nowhere to be found" end of the spectrum, but nor is it of the "ban them even if they're not causing trouble" end which some espouse - IMO, both ends of that spectrum are as problematic as eachother.

drumswan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They're campaigning because they don't want to have to "put up with it", nor should they be forced to "put up with" anything they disagree with. You disagree with that opinion, yet I wouldn't tell you "You'll just have to put up with it!".

Unfortunately for you thats not how the world works. Do you expect people in say, Monkstown to hear about your objections to treatment centres in Dun Laoire and suddenly say "quick, close those down and open some over here!. We cant have those special people in Dun Laoire inconvenienced!"?

You'll have to come up with a better solution than 'just foist them on someone else' Im afraid, otherwise you are just moaning for the sake of it.

Victor

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

They are business owners who are paying hundreds of thousands a year in rates and water rates to the council,people are not shopping there because of the "unwell" hanging around Dun Laoghaire

I thought it was because of the one-way system and clamping?

In reality, it's because the council has allowed too much shopping in other parts of the county and this has drawn business away from Dún Laoghaire, resulting in empty shops.

One eyed Jack

drumswan wrote: »

Unfortunately for you thats not how the world works. Do you expect people in say, Monkstown to hear about your objections to treatment centres in Dun Laoire and suddenly say "quick, close those down and open some over here!. We cant have those special people in Dun Laoire inconvenienced!"?

You'll have to come up with a better solution than 'just foist them on someone else' Im afraid, otherwise you are just moaning for the sake of it.

That's exactly how the world works actually (fortunately for me really) - enough people object to something, it gets changed, or closed down. In this instance, well, we'll use your example above -

The people of Monkstown aren't going to care about the people of Dun Laoire, they'll only care if an attempt is made to foist a treatment centre upon them, that they don't want in their town either.

It's the epitome of NIMBYism, and I'm only saying I can understand where both sides are coming from, but I would support the views of the local residents in the area who do not wish to have methadone clinics or homeless hostels located in their area. I wouldn't want them in my area either. Where they're located after that is beyond my concern.

steddyeddy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't particularly care where else they decided to locate beyond the area where I lived.

Well that illustrates the fact that society cannot be ruled by individual desire.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And methadone clinics don't work, they come in to get their high then hang around the area taking other illegal substances. Was a program on TV about people being on methadone for 20 years.

You don't get high off methadone.

darkpagandeath

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't get high off methadone.

Then why are they always off their face when you see them ? it is a synthetic opioid

end of the road

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They're campaigning because they don't want to have to "put up with it", nor should they be forced to "put up with" anything they disagree with. You disagree with that opinion, yet I wouldn't tell you "You'll just have to put up with it!".

the clinic is going to have to go somewhere, so some people will have to put up with it whether they want to or not. its life

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I was hoping for a zombie walk in Dun Laoghaire, quite disappointed now

darkpagandeath

Ishaan Tiny Snowman wrote: »

I was hoping for a zombie walk in Dun Laoghaire, quite disappointed now

You need to get there before like 10am when they are collecting it.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Then why are they always off their face when you see them ? it is a synthetic opioid

It is an synthetic opioid but it doesn't produce a high. It just stops withdrawal. If there were off their face, it would probably because most methadone users also simultaneously use heroin as well

One eyed Jack

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well that illustrates the fact that society cannot be ruled by individual desire.

Nobody is suggesting that though? If a group of individuals feel the same way I do for example, they have every right to campaign against the locating of a methadone clinic or homeless hostel in their neighbourhood.

end of the road wrote: »

the clinic is going to have to go somewhere, so some people will have to put up with it whether they want to or not. its life

As I've reiterated time and again - I wouldn't particularly care where else it went as long as it wasn't in my neighbourhood. That is indeed, as you put it - life.

Tail Docker

This is the same Dun Laoghaire that was a kip even back in the seventies? It had a drug problem before Ireland had a drug problem. It's in their back yard since day one. The methadone clinics are just one visible symptom. They have ideas about themselves that were never reflected by the reality. Posh me hole. Kip more like.

Teyla Emmagan

Tail Docker wrote: »

This is the same Dun Laoghaire that was a kip even back in the seventies? It had a drug problem before Ireland had a drug problem. It's in their back yard since day one. The methadone clinics are just one visible symptom. They have ideas about themselves that were never reflected by the reality. Posh me hole. Kip more like.

There has always been quite an antisocial element in Dun Laoghaire alright. I personally think it's a lovely place, bar the knackers. And the new library of course.

Three methadone clinics though! Really?

fleet_admiral

Dun Laoghaire. Was a kip, is a kip and always will be a kip

RedemptionZ

Dun Laoighre isn't a rough place by any means, near enough to some council estates from Ballybrack and Sallynoggin and whatnot but overall the people it attracts are fairly decent. The methadone clinics really do make the town so much more unattractive, to the point that I'd always pick the alternative if it came down to it. It's just not nice seeing junkies off their head pestering you at the bus stops or screaming that they'll bate the guy across the road.

With that said, the solution isn't just to move them to another town so they can deal with the problems, but surely 3 in the same town is bad planning?

Tail Docker

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

There has always been quite an antisocial element in Dun Laoghaire alright. I personally think it's a lovely place, bar the knackers. And the new library of course.

Three methadone clinics though! Really?

I agree 100%, I grew up there and still bring my kids for walks down the pier and love it, but there was always a big scanger element and it was always rough if you vaguely looked closely.

They do love putting methadone clinics in erm, "great" locations - slap bang in the city center, so the tourists can play too, and bang where people come off the ferry.... Bord Failte eat yer hearts out.

Cookie_Monster

The clinic has been there for decades and the problem has been there for decades. It doesn't take Einstein to figure out it doesn't really work and just draws in junkies for their hits who then hang around and cause various problems.

Lone Stone

Dl is fairly bad, there is a clinic in my local chemists and the area is grand for the most part but i went to college out there and do be in the area often enough isnt fair on the locals. They should havd meth clinics near garda stations or underground in the sewers :-|

masculinist

I always thought Bray was a little bit dodgy. Dun Laoghaire too ?



My long standing opinion is that the effect of the location of methadone clinics is to wage war on the locals who have to put up with it . They should all be out in industrial estates in the middle of nowhere, not right in the middle of tourist trails or near families where they cause the most damage. As for the homeless shelters and hostels , I'd be more lenient on them. I feel sorry for most of them. Many of them are just not mentally equipped for looking after themselves properly.

end of the road

Lone Stone wrote: »

Dl is fairly bad, there is a clinic in my local chemists and the area is grand for the most part but i went to college out there and do be in the area often enough isnt fair on the locals. They should havd meth clinics near garda stations or underground in the sewers :-|

they will have them where they get the planning to have them. in the sewers is not the place, rabel rabel diatribe

end of the road

masculinist wrote: »

I always thought Bray was a little bit dodgy. Dun Laoghaire too ?



My long standing opinion is that the effect of the location of methadone clinics is to wage war on the locals who have to put up with it . They should all be out in industrial estates in the middle of nowhere, not right in the middle of tourist trails or near families where they cause the most damage.

the locations picked for them which happen to be near families and tourist trails were the best places as they have large access to public transport.

RedemptionZ

Tail Docker wrote: »

This is the same Dun Laoghaire that was a kip even back in the seventies? It had a drug problem before Ireland had a drug problem. It's in their back yard since day one. The methadone clinics are just one visible symptom. They have ideas about themselves that were never reflected by the reality. Posh me hole. Kip more like.

Are the junkies just all the ones from around the area or what?

masculinist

Imagine the damage done to our tourist industry by crime and just the spoiling of the beauty of some stunning city centre architecture because its infested with these filthy zombies ? It sounds awful but thats what you become when you become addicted to hard drugs. Sugar coat it and expect even less to be done about it. On top of this is a complete desensitization to hard drug addiction among the next generation of kids in those areas for whom someone out of his head on smack is a familiar and daily occurrence.

end of the road wrote: »

the locations picked for them which happen to be near families and tourist trails were the best places as they have large access to public transport.

Dont' Heroin addicts qualify for disability payments ? This includes a free travel pass on top of a nice set of benefits for something self inflicted. Hard working people somehow manage to get there and back to industrial estates to do their jobs using public transport. Is there something wrong with expecting a drug addict with zero responsibilities and all day free to use his free travel pass to travel free of charge to pick up some free drugs for himself at a methadone clinic in an industrial estate and perhaps hang out at a drop in centre with counselling there too ?

end of the road

masculinist wrote: »

Imagine the damage done to our tourist industry by crime and just the spoiling of the beauty of some stunning city centre architecture because its infested with these filthy zombies ? It sounds awful but thats what you become when you become addicted to hard drugs. Sugar coat it and expect even less to be done about it. On top of this is a complete desensitization to hard drug addiction among the next generation of kids in those areas for whom someone out of his head on smack is a familiar and daily occurrence.




Dont' Heroin addicts qualify for disability payments ? This includes a free travel pass on top of a nice set of benefits for something self inflicted. Hard working people somehow manage to get there and back to industrial estates to do their jobs using public transport. Is there something wrong with expecting a drug addict with zero responsibilities and all day free to use his free travel pass to travel free of charge to pick up some free drugs for himself at a methadone clinic in an industrial estate and perhaps hang out at a drop in centre with counselling there too ?

the locations were picked for a reason. that reason being full access to public transport over other places including industrial estates. i don't make the rules i'm just giving you the information.