Garda Inspectorate Report

Red Pepper

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/broken-garda-badly-needs-resources-says-watchdog-30738376.html

A GARDA watchdog has issued a scathing indictment of how the force investigates and classifies crimes.

It portrays a force that is badly in need of modernisation and resources and lacking the technology needed to implement vital changes.
And it is particularly critical of the garda handling of domestic violence and its dealings with victims, although it acknowledges that improvements have been made in that area since the start of the year.
The 500-page report was compiled by the Garda Inspectorate after a two-year investigation.
It puts forward 200 recommendations to be introduced on a short, medium and long-term basis.
Deficiencies identified in the report included:
• Serious failings in the recording, classification and reclassification of crime incidents.
• Inconsistencies in claiming detections.
• A lack of oversight in the decision-making process.
• Inexperienced gardai investigating serious crimes.
• Inconsistent approach to updating victims of crime.
• Foundation training provided for investigating crime pre-2014 did not adequately equip gardai for the task.
• Lack of IT and equipment to support investigations.
Chief Inspector Bob Olson said the report should be viewed as a watershed opportunity.

I heard Mr Olson getting interviewed this morning. He seemed like a very level headed man. It does sound like the whole culture of the Gardaí needs to change which is no easy task.

Mr. Incognito

Amazing how sergeant McCabe's allegations have been upheld after being vilified by the Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Justice.

The force needs a massive broom for the good of their own culture and the good of society in general

Here is the full report. People should read it and not be spoon fed interpretations by the media

http://www.gsinsp.ie/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=152

Here is the Guerin Report also for those interested- I found it a fascinating read

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/may2014/finalredactedguerinreport_may_2014.pdf

SEPT 23 1989

Frightening to think how thin or non existant the blue line actually is in this country

Son Of A Vidic

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The force needs a massive broom for the good of their own culture and the good of society in general

They must have loyalty to their State and its laws above all else and not their organisation. Treating people who broke ranks to uphold the law, like common criminals. All a bit too Mafia like for me and I no longer have any trust in the integrity of this organisation. A complete overhaul and rebuild is long overdue imo.

Arsemageddon

Even though this report is pretty shocking I'll be amazed if there is any genuine reform.

We'll probably just get a few scapegoats pensioned off and some cosmetic changes in advance of the next general election and then we'll be back to business as usual

Viper_JB

There's a lot of senior management that should be made join the dole que...

Lapin

Its time the Gardaí were disbanded and a new professional, armed, and competent force was established in its place.

The current lot served their purpose when they were first established but have long since past their sell by date.

They never kept up with the times but in fairness, they never had much support from successive governments over the years either.


They lost any trust I had in them years ago.

Arsemageddon

Lapin wrote: »

Its time the Gardaí were disbanded and a new professional, armed, and competent force was established in its place.

I don't think there is a need for every cop to be armed. Can you explain what practical difference this would make?

Lapin

Arsemageddon wrote: »

I don't think there is a need for every cop to be armed. Can you explain what practical difference this would make?

Young scumbags have fuckall respect for the law and those entrusted to enforce it.

A friendly greeting from the small end of a Glock 17 Gen 4 might soften their cough.

SEPT 23 1989

Lapin wrote: »

Young scumbags have fuckall respect for the law and those entrusted to enforce it.

A friendly greeting from the small end of a Glock 17 Gen 4 might soften their cough.

the scumbags will only arm themselves with bigger guns

_Kaiser_

I've been saying for years that as a whole (notwithstanding the good work done by some individuals) that the police force in this country is little more than a Keystone Cops brigade - full of Dirty Harry wannabes, inconsistent approaches to enforcement, and (as we've seen from the Whisteblower reports as well as this latest one) far from impartial and professional.

Throwing more money or "IT"/equipment at that won't solve anything either - it's the entire culture that needs to change, which is a lot harder to do and requires genuine political and institutional will.

But seeing as how AGS has traditionally closed ranks whenever a member sticks his/her head out for the wrong reasons and at best suspended them for a few weeks till the fuss died down, or maybe shuffled them off to another district, the shocking way they treated the Whisteblowers as "traitors" from peer level to the Commissioner and Minister himself, and just how little has changed since then I won't hold my breath.

Nor will I be waiting on Fitzgerald to lead the charge. A Kenny loyalist brought in to settle things down after the Shatter debacle, I don't expect her to be any more impressive in Justice than she was in her last post.

Ditto the interim Commissioner who apparently is having enough trouble as it is keeping her own senior staff in line

AGS needs a complete top to bottom clear-out, and increased separation from the Executive and its "political appointments" if public trust (as well as competence and professionalism) is to be established in this not fit for purpose outfit we're currently stuck with.

crockholm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

the scumbags will only arm themselves with bigger guns

Lets give the gardai bazookas and RPGs then,Think outside the box, man

Arsemageddon

Lapin wrote: »

Young scumbags have fuckall respect for the law and those entrusted to enforce it.

A friendly greeting from the small end of a Glock 17 Gen 4 might soften their cough.

You been watching Dirty Harry again haven't you?

It is very rare for Gardaí to actually draw their weapons, much less use them. To their credit they managed to get through the troubles without being armed so I don't see why they should be now.

IsaacWunder

Lapin wrote: »

Its time the Gardaí were disbanded and a new professional, armed, and competent force was established in its place.

The current lot served their purpose when they were first established but have long since past their sell by date.

They never kept up with the times but in fairness, they never had much support from successive governments over the years either.


They lost any trust I had in them years ago.

Lapin wrote: »

Young scumbags have fuckall respect for the law and those entrusted to enforce it.

A friendly greeting from the small end of a Glock 17 Gen 4 might soften their cough.

Their armed or not being armed has nothing to do with what's in the report.

Most of it details how they can't do basic stuff correctly. In only 1/3 off cases where they should be fingerprinting people is it being done.

In the vast majority of cases people are released on bail when the local court isn't sitting despite the fact that, according to the law, they're supposed to bring them to another court that is sitting.

The report also details that in less than half of the cases that a crime is reported is it recorded properly on the computer system. Of the other half, a majority aren't even put into the system, the remainder are classified incorrectly due to a combination of fraud (fixing the stats to make the numbers look good), laziness (crimes recorded in the wrong category due to insufficient detail) and a combination of lack of training, incompetence, and stupidity.

Basically what the report states is if you report a crime in the majority of cases it won't be prosecuted, assuming the guard at the end of the phone or at the window in the station could be bothered even correctly recording it. Most of them also haven't been trained how to interview a suspect.

We all know what's really going on here: the majority of gardai go in to the job with the best of intentions, but get insufficient/no training, then get slowly ground down by no resources, lazy colleagues, and corrupt managers who fix the numbers to get promotions. It makes interacting with the guards sound like dealing with the motor tax office 20 years ago. Giving them guns when they neither own, nor can use laptops, would be a recipe for disaster.

Peppa Cig

Red Pepper wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/broken-garda-badly-needs-resources-says-watchdog-30738376.html



I heard Mr Olson getting interviewed this morning. He seemed like a very level headed man. It does sound like the whole culture of the Gardaí needs to change which is no easy task.

Yes he is level headed and my money is on him being appointed Garda Commissioner next month.

My name is URL

The fingerprinting thing is just shambolic. That can't be explained away or excused with the usual 'we don't have enough resources' spiel that they tend to come out with.

Amateur stuff...

More than 32,000 suspects who should have had finger prints taken in 2012 and 2013 evaded the measure, including suspected rapists and murderers.

marienbad

Lapin wrote: »

Young scumbags have fuckall respect for the law and those entrusted to enforce it.

A friendly greeting from the small end of a Glock 17 Gen 4 might soften their cough.

Unbelievable

IsaacWunder

My name is URL wrote: »

The fingerprinting thing is just shambolic. That can't be explained away or excused with the usual 'we don't have enough resources' spiel that they tend to come out with.

Amateur stuff...

Totally. If you enter the US or Australia they fingerprint and photograph you in about 5 seconds.

When you think half the country is walking around with an iPhone that takes a fingerprint it's even more mind blowing.

All this report is missing is a chapter on how criminals are walking out of stations after being arrested due to a combination of lost keys, new guards not being trained how to lock doors and old doors falling off hinges due to the government not paying for replacement screws to hang them.

Tail Docker

Reality check - the Gards struggle to even get cars that are not either clapped out or shared between twenty people.

The chances of root and branch overhaul and a full re-fit are somewhere between slim and none, and slims in Spain, avoiding extradition.

A new Logo and some nice hats might come out of this, with luck and threats of a strike..

Binning "An Garda Siochana" and re-naming them "Police" might be a cheap step in the right direction. "An Garda Siochana" sounds like somthing from 1950's Kerry to most people tbh.

Red Pepper

It's amazing how quickly people have lost respect for our once vaunted police force.

kerry4sam

Red Pepper wrote: »

It's amazing how quickly people have lost respect for our once vaunted police force.

I still remember the day I received my e-mail to start my training in Templemore. The one major positive of that volunteer GardaReserve experience is seeing first-hand just how everything and everyone operates within.
I had an encounter last Tuesday 4th where someone said they'd every right to kick & hammer me to death and to watch my back. Now, with the sheer incompetence and distrust in the Irish Police Force, I'd sooner take my chances of that person or their mates deciding some night that I need to learn a lesson, than reveal his name and make a statement to the Guards. They'd only put a bullet in my head sooner than if I say/reveal nothing/ no identity.

It needs a HUGE over-haul. It needs to drop the name Guardians of the Peace, insult to the word Peace in my eyes. Our Irish Police Force seems more to change. It also needs to remind ALL members of their mission statement to "Achieve the highest attainable level of Personal Protection; Community Community and State Security". That needs drilling into ALL current members imo.

Delighted with this most recent wake-up call for the force; I certainly welcome it. I will say that Chief Inspector Robert K. Olson did speak with such integrity; with some drive and with such honesty that he would in my eyes be the front-runner now as our new Garda Commissioner. He has met the people involved; knows what is what on the ground; spoke of this with such vigour I get the impression he won't sweep the results away too easily - he just gave the impression like he wanted what was best for the entire force and that was welcomed by me. No messing; no soundbites; just honest-to-God honest truth.

Now, all that is needed is someone at the help of our Irish Police Force with the ambition; capability; drive and determination to see this force succeed in re-gaining trust and integrity and regain competence and to regain some sign they are capable & just in having the name An Garda Síochána.

Just my tuppence,
kerry4sam

masculinist

Individual Garda are nice or mean just lie the rest of the population. Being fairly personable I break the ice pretty quickly but many of them arent so approachable for a non crime related issue. However the force is a bit of a shambles. When I arrive at a Garda station seeking help I dont get that customer service feeling where they actively want feedback from law abiding citizens.

Let me give some examples :

My wallet was stolen/missing. A horrible experience and one which I hope will never happen again. I file a police report. I am actively seeking my wallet, hoping it will be returned or found.

I return to the station and its still not in the computer and nobody knows about my report. I file another report. The same thing happens. A lot of this seems hopelessly inefficient. One Garda station doesnt have access to the same information as another.


I was also a potential witness in a serious criminal case at some point. Despite the gravity of the issue they kept losing my statements , not knowing where anything was and kept having to ask me to give them the exact same details over a period of months....not good.

Bipolar Joe

What we need is our very own Serpico. O'Serpic, or something. I dunno.

marienbad

There was a thread on here some weeks ago by a lad who saw his stolen bike up for sale on Donedeal ,I think it was , and the story of how he went to the Gardaí and what followed was a story of utter disinterest and weeks passing and his bike sold before his eyes .

Made for depressing reading.

Little CuChulainn

kerry4sam wrote: »

I still remember the day I received my e-mail to start my training in Templemore. The one major positive of that volunteer GardaReserve experience is seeing first-hand just how everything and everyone operates within.
I had an encounter last Tuesday 4th where someone said they'd every right to kick & hammer me to death and to watch my back. Now, with the sheer incompetence and distrust in the Irish Police Force, I'd sooner take my chances of that person or their mates deciding some night that I need to learn a lesson, than reveal his name and make a statement to the Guards. They'd only put a bullet in my head sooner than if I say/reveal nothing/ no identity.

It needs a HUGE over-haul. It needs to drop the name Guardians of the Peace, insult to the word Peace in my eyes. Our Irish Police Force seems more to change. It also needs to remind ALL members of their mission statement to "Achieve the highest attainable level of Personal Protection; Community Community and State Security". That needs drilling into ALL current members imo.

Delighted with this most recent wake-up call for the force; I certainly welcome it. I will say that Chief Inspector Robert K. Olson did speak with such integrity; with some drive and with such honesty that he would in my eyes be the front-runner now as our new Garda Commissioner. He has met the people involved; knows what is what on the ground; spoke of this with such vigour I get the impression he won't sweep the results away too easily - he just gave the impression like he wanted what was best for the entire force and that was welcomed by me. No messing; no soundbites; just honest-to-God honest truth.

Now, all that is needed is someone at the help of our Irish Police Force with the ambition; capability; drive and determination to see this force succeed in re-gaining trust and integrity and regain competence and to regain some sign they are capable & just in having the name An Garda Síochána.

Just my tuppence,
kerry4sam

If I recall, among your major issues were that you saw a Garda let a kid cycle his official bike around a yard and another Garda gave a transition year student a lift in the passenger seat of a patrol car around the town.

queensinead

kerry4sam wrote: »

I still remember the day I received my e-mail to start my training in Templemore. The one major positive of that volunteer GardaReserve experience is seeing first-hand just how everything and everyone operates within.
I had an encounter last Tuesday 4th where someone said they'd every right to kick & hammer me to death and to watch my back. Now, with the sheer incompetence and distrust in the Irish Police Force, I'd sooner take my chances of that person or their mates deciding some night that I need to learn a lesson, than reveal his name and make a statement to the Guards. They'd only put a bullet in my head sooner than if I say/reveal nothing/ no identity.

It needs a HUGE over-haul. It needs to drop the name Guardians of the Peace, insult to the word Peace in my eyes. Our Irish Police Force seems more to change. It also needs to remind ALL members of their mission statement to "Achieve the highest attainable level of Personal Protection; Community Community and State Security". That needs drilling into ALL current members imo.

Delighted with this most recent wake-up call for the force; I certainly welcome it. I will say that Chief Inspector Robert K. Olson did speak with such integrity; with some drive and with such honesty that he would in my eyes be the front-runner now as our new Garda Commissioner. He has met the people involved; knows what is what on the ground; spoke of this with such vigour I get the impression he won't sweep the results away too easily - he just gave the impression like he wanted what was best for the entire force and that was welcomed by me. No messing; no soundbites; just honest-to-God honest truth.

Now, all that is needed is someone at the help of our Irish Police Force with the ambition; capability; drive and determination to see this force succeed in re-gaining trust and integrity and regain competence and to regain some sign they are capable & just in having the name An Garda Síochána.

Just my tuppence,
kerry4sam

I was very impressed with Olsen too. He was so articulate, positive where there was anything to be positive about, but hard-hitting too. He spoke with great respect and admiration for the new minister and the Assistant Commissioner, which was so different from the usual agenda-led blame game.

I have great respect for the Gardai, as I think many people in this country still have. Nobody should under-estimate the tough job that they do

But at every level they need to come into the 21st Century. When I go to my local school, everyone in the office is using a computer and the teachers put the children's homework online

But if I go into my local Garda station it's like going back to the 1950s--old hand-written notices badly pinned to the wall, nobody at the customer window, and when some bored Garda finally appears, he takes a pencil from behind his ear.

I don't want to join the public sector bashers. I know that Gardai have taken 3 paycuts, and had cuts to their pensions, but how can Gardai ever have enough Garda cars or "resources" when they can retire in their 50s on such huge pensions? That's where an awful lot of the money is going, instead of in wages to young recruits and better facilities and resources for working Gardai

Maybe adjusting the retirement age so that it matches that of other public servants might help . If a secondary teacher in a tough disadvantaged school is expected to work until age 65, and a social worker too, with cuts to their pensions if they retire early, surely this should be the norm for the Gardai.

The option of well-paid early retirement (many get other jobs when they retire) is depriving the force of the essential skills of senior Gardai.

lakesider

Arsemageddon wrote: »

You been watching Dirty Harry again haven't you?

It is very rare for Gardaí to actually draw their weapons, much less use them. To their credit they managed to get through the troubles without being armed so I don't see why they should be now.

As someone who had a lot of contact with garda on the border during the troubles let me tell you they were heavily armed!

Arsemageddon

lakesider wrote: »

As someone who had a lot of contact with garda on the border during the troubles let me tell you they were heavily armed!

.........and as someone who also lived along the border during the troubles let me tell you they generally weren't. Weapons were carried by plain clothes Gardaí from specialist units. Uniformed Gardaí manning check points etc. were backed up by the defence forces.

TheNog

Arsemageddon wrote: »

.........and as someone who also lived along the border during the troubles let me tell you they generally weren't. Weapons were carried by plain clothes Gardaí from specialist units. Uniformed Gardaí manning check points etc. were backed up by the defence forces.

During the worst of the Troubles back in the 1960s and 1970s uniformed Gardai were routinely armed. I know this because my dad was stationed in Donegal during this time. I don't know when this practice was discontinued though.