Dreadful sheep kill in Connemara

DBB

Hi all,
This thread is up and running in the Farming and Forestry forum at the min, and it was suggested that it was cross-posted to here to raise awareness of what it actually looks like when a dog runs amok amongst sheep.
Now I'm warning you folks, the pictures are stomach-churning, so do not open them if you feel you might get upset. They include a photo of the dog who had to be destroyed before causing any more carnage, and a photo of a savaged lamb, still alive, as well as dead ewes.
The message is that dogs chasing stock is grizzly, and deeply distressing for stock and farmer. Be under no illusions about what a dog is capable of.
I know I'm talking to responsible, caring owners here, but raising awareness can do no harm nonetheless.
Here's a link to the thread. Be aware that if you decide to post on the thread, that a different charter applies.
Or we can discuss it here if you want.
Thanks,
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057325401

andreac

Omg that is horrific. Looks like a Rottie too :-(.

What is wrong with people to think that its ok to let your dog roam?? They should have that ad back on telly that was on years ago, i remember it was scary. With the dogs roaming and killing sheep, think it was like a cartoon type ad if i recall correctly?

tk123

I have family in North County Dublin who let their dog roam - "sure he's a country dog" :mad: They've never had a dog die of old age either - always run over or "lost" :mad:

Nody

andreac wrote: »

Omg that is horrific. Looks like a Rottie too :-(.

What is wrong with people to think that its ok to let your dog roam?? They should have that ad back on telly that was on years ago, i remember it was scary. With the dogs roaming and killing sheep, think it was like a cartoon type ad if i recall correctly?

Look at the collar; with out drawing to deep conclusions but to me that looks like not your average dog user collar (thick leather collar with metal studs sticking out) and could point towards the type of owner it sadly had.

DBB

Nody wrote: »

Look at the collar; with out drawing to deep conclusions but to me that looks like not your average dog user collar (thick leather collar with metal studs sticking out) and could point towards the type of owner it sadly had.

Ah I dunno Nody, you can buy collars like that in any pet shop. Big-dog collars often have studs on them. Not my cup of tea but I do know a fair few perfectly nice owners who have them
It does indeed look like a Rottie, but with a full tail? Unusual enough unless it's a young dog, or maybe even a dog bought in from the UK/NI?

Rips

That's awful, I'm glad its been posted here.

Nody I think your comment is presumptuous and not taking account of the real issue here. This could be anybody's dog if left to roam. My dogs collar looks just like that, it was the biggest leather collar in the shop, simple as. You can buy nylon ones with bunnies and kittens on them too of course, but plastic buckles break.

Pumpkinseeds

I remember the days when RTE used to have an animated advert showing roaming dogs killing sheep then going home and being let in by the owners, maybe it's time for something simillar again. There's entirely too many dogs being let out to roam, you'd never think letting a dog roam is illegal.

tk123

That ad used to scare me as a kid!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIh0kMPdlUc

andreac

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I remember the days when RTE used to have an animated advert showing roaming dogs killing sheep then going home and being let in by the owners, maybe it's time for something simillar again. There's entirely too many dogs being let out to roam, you'd never think letting a dog roam is illegal.

Yeah i posted that above too, about the ad. Def should be shown again.

Tokyo

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I remember the days when RTE used to have an animated advert showing roaming dogs killing sheep then going home and being let in by the owners, maybe it's time for something simillar again. There's entirely too many dogs being let out to roam, you'd never think letting a dog roam is illegal.

Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act, 1960

Pumpkinseeds

It seems that people just don't even think about where their dogs go or what might happen to them. Today I saw a little roaming terrier x running out in front of traffic. I couldn't catch it and my stomach turned over watching it dart out in front of cars that only just managed to brake in time to avoid hitting it. But that kind of luck runs out.

ShaShaBear

I've never seen that ad before, shocking! The quality increase that could be put into it now would definitely make it a lesson-learning trick!

My last dog was never, ever, EVER allowed off the lead, EVER. He growled at sheep, pigs, horses - you name it. Went pure stiff just at the sight of them! I have another collie pup now, at only 5 months he already stiffens at the sight of moving horses or sheep. Working on that, but would still never ever trust him around livestock.

After experiencing a dog death in my family, I'd very much like this one to stay alive. Not death by gun, needle or by trampling of overwhelming and rightly-frightened livestock.

Galwayguy35

I'm an animal lover and I grew up on a farm and unfortunately saw both sides of what can happen, our dog attacked sheep belonging to a neighbour and the farmer insisted he be shot despite the fact my father paid for vet bills, this happened nearly 30 years and I still shed a tear for that dog.

Some time later my fathers sheep were attacked and some of them badly mauled by dogs but he never found out who owned the dog.

It's the owners I am angry with, the dog paid with his life because they didn't keep an eye on him, but the farmer ofton has no choice but to shoot the dog.

peasant

Nody wrote: »

Look at the collar; with out drawing to deep conclusions but to me that looks like not your average dog user collar (thick leather collar with metal studs sticking out) and could point towards the type of owner it sadly had.

In this case (other than letting the dog roam in the first place) the type of owner makes absolutely no difference to the question of whether or not a dog would be capable of doing this.

They all are !

No matter how meek or mild mannered the pooch is at home, given half a chance and the wrong circumstances all dogs will succumb to their old instincts and "enjoy" the thrill of the chase and hunt.

If there's more than one dog roaming about and they can gang up, a few dead sheep will be almost inevitable.

mymo

That is horrific to see, I hope the owner is found.

I often meeting roaming dogs, even out the country roads, usually dogs looking for that bitch in heat, or just left out all day.
It makes me very angry, I grew up in London, you walked your dog on the lead, or played fetch in the park, dogs lived inside with the family.

A friend had sheep mauled some months back by two terriers, he didn't want to shoot them, but instead tried to catch them in a trailer to contain them until he found the owner.
Instead he got bitten badly himself, €500+ later in doc bills, plus not working for a week, vet bills for sheep, and the loss of two other sheep and the person he suspects owned the dogs denied any knowledge.
No chip, no proof of ownership.
I think owners of these dogs should be prosecuted and shown the damage their pet did.

Tranceypoo

mymo wrote: »

I often meeting roaming dogs, even out the country roads, usually dogs looking for that bitch in heat, or just left out all day.
It makes me very angry, I grew up in London, you walked your dog on the lead, or played fetch in the park, dogs lived inside with the family.

.

Me too, I've been here 12 years and it still shocks me the amount of dogs left to their own devices/roaming etc and if you say anything people tend to think 'ah sure she's from London what does she know'!

Dubl07

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Me too, I've been here 12 years and it still shocks me the amount of dogs left to their own devices/roaming etc and if you say anything people tend to think 'ah sure she's from London what does she know'!

It depends on the context. I was driving along a busy Kilmacud Road near the old Airfield entrance today and an absolutely gorgeous Golden Retriever was investigating the northern side of the road and a van parked on the pavement. He wasn't causing an obstacle to traffic in and of his behaviour as he didn't dart onto the road either time I passed by but drivers were braking and watching and thus creating possible hazards.

ferretone

That is the one thing that drives me nuts about the people living around here too. There are about 3 of us along here (about 3 mile stretch of road) that bother with keeping our dogs in. The rest are just out full-time. One of those other owners is my English next-door-neighbour, the other is from the north. We are seen as the weirdos, and the others constantly hassle our dogs out walking, as well as chasing cars, bikes, etc. You can't call the warden, as then you'd be a rotten neighbour and an anathema. But the others who let their dogs behave in whatever anti-social way they feel like, they are the normal ones

mosi

Those photos are terrible
Allowing a dog to roam is absolutely wrong, be it in a rural or urban context. The worst thing is that many people who allow it to happen don't see anything wrong, and come out with nonsense such as "he never goes far" or "my dog would never attack a sheep". It's awful for the poor sheep who are attacked, while ewes often abort due to the stress, even if they aren't attacked. Any dog, no matter the breed or size is capable. Aside from the livestock issue, roaming leaves a dog vulnerable to road accidents, poison, theft, going to the pound etc. I believe that a good proportion - if not the majority - of dogs who end up in the pound are there as a result of being allowed to roam.
An updated ad campaign would be good, that encompasses the consequences of roaming and highlights that it is illegal.

Zapperzy

Never understood why it's possible for every cow in the country to have a unique number and card identifying it keeping track of their every movement, yet we can't bring in something similar for dogs. Every single dog over the age of say 4 months should have either a microchip or tattoo and a card which stays with it throughout life tracking it's owner and movement. Dog found straying, returned straight to owner with fine. Dog found worrying livestock, owner prosecuted and costs reimbursed. Dog causes rta, owner prosecuted and costs reimbursed. How hard can it be when we've already been doing it for years with livestock.

nala2012

Zapperzy wrote: »

Never understood why it's possible for every cow in the country to have a unique number and card identifying it keeping track of their every movement, yet we can't bring in something similar for dogs. Every single dog over the age of say 4 months should have either a microchip or tattoo and a card which stays with it throughout life tracking it's owner and movement. Dog found straying, returned straight to owner with fine. Dog found worrying livestock, owner prosecuted and costs reimbursed. Dog causes rta, owner prosecuted and costs reimbursed. How hard can it be when we've already been doing it for years with livestock.

Livestock are more valuable to people than dogs. Unfortunatly people see dogs as disposible items and seem to think that everyone has a right to own one and sure you can easily replace your dog with another if your first one gets too big, bold, old, sick goes missing etc etc... mandatory microchipping is coming in next year but no more than with horses its still only going to be responsible owners who chip and register.

nala2012

Looking at the breed of dog involved and the area where this happened it reminded me of what someone in my local recue was telling me a couple weeks ago. There is a man who is breeding "gaurd dogs". He bred a litter of pit x rottie pups didn't like the look of them and drowned them in the sea. A pit pup he owned ran off and ended up in the rescue a few years ago as well as a litter of akita x pit pups that he didn't want this year. There was a story going around that his rottie had gotten too agressive so he put him in a bag with rocks and threw him off the pier but the dog survived and was running around connemara. Of course nothing will be done about him and he'll continue to breed.

sillysmiles

nala2012 wrote: »

Livestock are more valuable to people than dogs.

This is the crux of the problem when it comes to mandatory tagging/micorchipping. There is no reason for all owners (even/especially the bad ones) to do it and multiple reasons (from their point of view) not to do it. If someone (rural or urban) has no interest in being a good dog owner and doing the best they can, then they will not sign up to a system whereby they will get fined for their dogs behaviour, because frequently they see it as the dog being bold/bad and not that they have failed to train/contain/entertain their dog appropriately.

Tranceypoo

Dubl07 wrote: »

It depends on the context. I was driving along a busy Kilmacud Road near the old Airfield entrance today and an absolutely gorgeous Golden Retriever was investigating the northern side of the road and a van parked on the pavement. He wasn't causing an obstacle to traffic in and of his behaviour as he didn't dart onto the road either time I passed by but drivers were braking and watching and thus creating possible hazards.

Sorry I don't quite understand your point here, are you saying the dog was fine and not doing any harm but the people who were driving along and braking and watching the dog in case it ran out in front of their car were the ones actually causing the problem?

SillyMangoX

I do wish a system would come in where all dogs are tagged/chipped/have a paper that stays with them for life like cows or horses (only maybe not an ear tag like cows!) But even then I could see it not being as regulated as much as with livestock. Dogs just wouldn't get the same checks as livestock. Like when they are being sold to the mart or to the factory all their papers have to be with them particularly the drugs registry in case they were given medication that would render them unfit for human consumption (moreso with horses than cows) or they have random farm visits by the department to check tags, TB tests etc (as far as I remember, been a couple of years since I was out on farms). Whereas dog licences, which are the only 'obligation' of dog owners at the moment are barely enforced in some areas of the country. We had a dog for 15 years and were never once approached about a licence. We're in the countryside and should she have gotten free she definitely would have been after sheep but there would have been absolutely no tractability back to us as we had no tag on her collar and she had no chip. I think the whole system would need a major overhaul for it to come into effect but personally I hope it does just to save the anguish of people having to come across a field full of what was seen in those pictures.

Graces7

When I moved here in deep rural farmland the first thing the landlord and I did was check on dog training and security. He had had sheep killed by a pack of dogs. He needed to know that my dogs are under my control and I needed to know that his fences around the property were dog proof and indeed I had him put a new fence in at one side which he was happy to do. There is one local collie that strays; he leapt the fence once but my two made it very clear that he is not welcome.
Nearly every time I am out there are dogs running free.

FurBabyMomma

Dubl07 wrote: »

It depends on the context. I was driving along a busy Kilmacud Road near the old Airfield entrance today and an absolutely gorgeous Golden Retriever was investigating the northern side of the road and a van parked on the pavement. He wasn't causing an obstacle to traffic in and of his behaviour as he didn't dart onto the road either time I passed by but drivers were braking and watching and thus creating possible hazards.

Am I understanding you correctly that you are blaming the drivers? How ridiculous. No-one is in a position to know if the dog will suddenly dart across the road in front of them so of course they are going to slow down. It's akin to saying you shouldn't brake if you see an unaccompanied small child. You cannot predict behaviour of an animal or child on sight like that.

I can't look at the pictures, I feel sorry for everyone but the dog's owner in this situation.

Graces7

Dubl07 wrote: »

It depends on the context. I was driving along a busy Kilmacud Road near the old Airfield entrance today and an absolutely gorgeous Golden Retriever was investigating the northern side of the road and a van parked on the pavement. He wasn't causing an obstacle to traffic in and of his behaviour as he didn't dart onto the road either time I passed by but drivers were braking and watching and thus creating possible hazards.

The drivers were being careful and sensible and the dog was creating hazards by being loose on the road. Dogs and traffic do not mix. I trade in summer in a small village where people let their dogs roam free and watching them play Russian roulette with the traffic . one beautiful Boxer has been hit three times and the woman who works in the shop comes out, croons" BABY GIRL!" to it and goes back in.. each time they get a new Garda he tries to stop the trend but it always creeps back. Any good drive brakes when there is any critter loose on the road,

Dubl07

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Sorry I don't quite understand your point here, are you saying the dog was fine and not doing any harm but the people who were driving along and braking and watching the dog in case it ran out in front of their car were the ones actually causing the problem?

No, what I meant was that the owners, casting a fond eye on Fido, would claim that he is well trained and not causing a danger whereas his mere presence, illegally loose on the footpath of a main road was spooking some drivers and making them behave in such a manner as to cause an accident. It's not just the dog itself and its behaviour, it's also the reactions of other creatures using the same space. In the city, dogs and drivers. In the country, dogs and livestock. If the dog, lovely and well behaved as it is, had been where he should be, no danger would arise.

FurBabyMomma

Dubl07 wrote: »

No, what I meant was that the owners, casting a fond eye on Fido, would claim that he is well trained and not causing a danger whereas his mere presence, illegally loose on the footpath of a main road was spooking some drivers and making them behave in such a manner as to cause an accident. It's not just the dog itself and its behaviour, it's also the reactions of other creatures using the same space. In the city, dogs and drivers. In the country, dogs and livestock. If the dog, lovely and well behaved as it is, had been where he should be, no danger would arise.

Oh that makes much more sense!