Water Tax Strike.

FreudianSlippers

fliball123 wrote: »

Why should it cost 2.46 ? Why should we pay VAT on water when most food that is consumable in the supermarket is at 0% VAT? So your analogy fails at the start.

You also fail to realise that the tax receipts and borrowing is not magic, its paid for by the tax payers who you are asking to pay again for the water charges..Double taxation

Anyone working and paying tax should be exempt from paying water charges, simple as this they are already paying for it.

Why not cut the costs to the supermarket and use that to subsidise water.

So ask yourself this question what exactly does my or anyone elses Income tax and USC cover, what do I get for it?

As I ask myself this question and quite honestly I dont get anything for it

I was talking about the concept of government subsidisation which you clearly don't understand.

Phoebas

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Explain to me the Universal Social Charge?

What do you care - you'll be dead in a few days!

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

By the way how are they only payin 10% on income tax? Are you including PRSI and USC in this

Yes, tax + USC + PRSI on 50,000 approx = under 10% - GREAT COUNTRY

Where else would you get it?

Meanwhile we borrow and borrow.......................

BoJack Horseman

fliball123 wrote: »

No do away with it and stop borrowing billions and take it out of spending .spending has not come down at all in this country over the last decade.

In fairness, that's not true.

Spending is about €9bn per year lower than peak levels.

ardmacha

fliball123 wrote: »

You also fail to realise that the tax receipts and borrowing is not magic, its paid for by the tax payers who you are asking to pay again for the water charges..Double taxation

You are not asking them to pay again, you are asking them to pay for that part of the expenses of water that the government has not paid for.

Please confirm that you understand this.

fliball123

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I was talking about the concept of government subsidisation which you clearly don't understand.

What part of any government subsidisation is gotten via taxation, you use the term as if the government pay it out of their back pockets

fliball123

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

In fairness, that's not true.

Spending is about €9bn per year lower than peak levels.

Really its up about 2/3bn since 2007 and at the peak of 2009 it is down about 4 billion, and a decade ago we are now spending 15 billion more now so now you go have a look at how much direct taxation has gone up in the same period and get back to me

http://www.per.gov.ie/expenditure-trends/

fliball123

ardmacha wrote: »

You are not asking them to pay again, you are asking them to pay for that part of the expenses of water that the government has not paid for.

Please confirm that you understand this.

Show me these expenses? How has it run from conception until 2013 without the need for water charges? Would it be that it was paid for by my and other workers direct taxation?

No I don't understand how all of a sudden its so expensive to pay for something that I am already paying for. Also can you confirm that you understand the the government does not pay for any of the expenses of water, the money they use is gotten via taxation its not like Kenny and Leo are having a whip round of their wallets and paying pal

BoJack Horseman

fliball123 wrote: »

http://www.per.gov.ie/expenditure-trends/

Thanks for the link proving me right!

As I said, €9bn lower from peak
(€63bn in 2009 vs €54bn in 2013).

ardmacha

fliball123 wrote: »

Really its up about 2/3bn since 2007 and at the peak of 2009 it is down about 4 billion, now have a look at how much direct taxation has gone up in the same period and get back to me

http://www.per.gov.ie/expenditure-trends/

As per your table, total expenditure is down 8,47Bn since peak. Not quite 9Bn, I suppose. And of course the composition of expenditure is different, less on PS pay and more on welfare and interest.

fliball123

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Thanks for the link proving me right!

As I said, €9bn lower from peak
(€63bn in 2009 vs €54bn in 2013).

I said decade as far as I am aware thats still 10 years so what was it back in 2004. If we are going off 2009 then property prices are too low FFS

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, tax + USC + PRSI on 50,000 approx = under 10% - GREAT COUNTRY

Where else would you get it?

Meanwhile we borrow and borrow.......................

And have you included the other myriad of taxation in your figures ?

Rightwing

Tax payers cash is simply being wasted. How about spend €900K on a building, and then let's demolish it. Probably the Government's idea of creating some jobs.


http://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/11/13/almost-e1-million-spent-on-building-set-for-demolition/

THE Office of Public Works has spent close to one million euro over the last three years on refurbishing Sarsfield House, which is now due to be demolished.

fliball123

Rightwing wrote: »

Tax payers cash is simply being wasted. How about spend €900K on a building, and then let's demolish it. Probably the Government's idea of creating some jobs.


http://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/11/13/almost-e1-million-spent-on-building-set-for-demolition/

THE Office of Public Works has spent close to one million euro over the last three years on refurbishing Sarsfield House, which is now due to be demolished.

This is what pisses me off, if the waste was cut out and the savings made could be used. Yet people like godge on here talk down to you as if you dont understand anything, saying water charges are there to cover the costs that the government cant afford to cover, as if the lads in the dail bar are having an auld whip round and just could not get enough to cover the cosf of water. He seems to think that once someone pays money via taxation that it is now the governments slush fund and things that it should be covered by this payment such as water should be paid for again

Rightwing

fliball123 wrote: »

This is what pisses me off, if the waste was cut out and the savings made could be used. Yet people like godge on here talk down to you as if you dont understand anything, saying water charges are there to cover the costs that the government cant afford to cover, as if the lads in the dole bar are having an auld whip round and just could not get enough to cover the cosf of water. He seems to think that once someone pays money via taxation that it is now the governments slush fund and things that it should be covered by this payment such as water should be paid for again

Indeed, some people will claim the €900K was well spent, and those in OPW deserves pay rises + bonuses for good decision making.

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

And have you included the other myriad of taxation in your figures ?

No, just direct taxes.

Direct taxes (income tax + USC + PRSI) on approx 50,000 gross = under 10%.

Unbelievably low.

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

No, just direct taxes.

Direct taxes (income tax + USC + PRSI) on approx 50,000 gross = under 10%.

Unbelievably low.

What I am getting at is this. Did they always get paid at that rate, do they drive a car, do they make purchases that incur VAT but I do agree it is low

FreudianSlippers

fliball123 wrote: »

What part of any government subsidisation is gotten via taxation, you use the term as if the government pay it out of their back pockets

We don't know because the budget doesn't work like that. It's all pooled in together - we pay for some of our expenditure from direct taxation and the rest from borrowing on the bond market (or, previously, from lenders of last resort).

The only direct taxation that we know goes to water is 5% of Motor Tax, which amounts to about €55m per annum.

I had previously calculated that the approximate amount of tax money that will go to subsidise Irish Water is somewhere in the region of €600m/year. Minus the €55m we know comes from Motor Tax, it's impossible to say if that'll all come from tax receipts or from borrowing.

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

What I am getting at is this. Did they always get paid at that rate, do they drive a car, do they make purchases that incur VAT but I do agree it is low

Yes, obviously they pay indirect taxes like everybody does.

But even still, under 10% direct taxes on 50k is very low compared to other countries.

Especially as they get 2 med cards + 2 travel passes + 420pa towards electricity + free TV licence + lower water charges.

shedweller

How much more oil/diesel/petrol/kerosene are we using compared to a few years ago?
Quite a bit more it would seem. Thats a lot of extra tax thats not being mentioned much!

ardmacha

shedweller wrote: »

How much more oil/diesel/petrol/kerosene are we using compared to a few years ago?
Quite a bit more it would seem. Thats a lot of extra tax thats not being mentioned much!

It would seem? Where do you get this from?
We'll probably never again use as much oil as a few years ago



This is taken from here

Paddy Fields

meglome wrote: »

Meant to say earlier but you'll last weeks without food but only days without water.

Wow didn't know that. FFS. :rolleyes:

Paddy Fields

Nice to see Enda Kenny's love children weighing in. I've been paying tax since I was 15 years old and now I'm sick to my f**king back teeth. Debate all you like, I've had it, I'm done.

BoJack Horseman

Rightwing wrote: »

I wouldn't put the boot into a man when he is down.

Perhaps, if I thought for a nanosecond Paddy was actually serious about killing himself via dehydration.

Dying in agony from dehydration over a utility bill?
No.

Though I do look forward to Paddy's next thread in the autumn:
"No broadcast charge, or I gouge my eyes out"

tayto lover

Just refuse to pay the charges Paddy like many others are doing.

meglome

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Wow didn't know that. FFS. :rolleyes:

Just wanted make sure you knew what you were getting into.

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Nice to see Enda Kenny's love children weighing in. I've been paying tax since I was 15 years old and now I'm sick to my f**king back teeth. Debate all you like, I've had it, I'm done.

And time and again the same old tired rubbish. Personally I'm disagreeing with your half baked idea (and I'm being generous when I say half baked) because you haven't even got basic answers to basic questions about it. It wouldn't matter if I was Enda Kenny's love child when you don't have the basics straight.

And guess what... a lot of us have been paying taxes for a long time. It's almost like taxes are needed every year to fund services. You're lucky you didn't live in a high tax country over those years or who knows what you might have done.

K-9

Mod: We already have 2 threads running about Irish Water in the main forum.