Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

oscarBravo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If he doesn't, a new standing order is required as a matter of urgency.

Why, because Mary Lou is running out of standing orders to ignore?

What's the point in having standing orders, when politicians are applauded for deciding that they don't apply to them?

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

But cabinet confidentiality rules as determined by the Supreme Court would not allow that amount of information.

And she could have stated this in the Dail, as opposed to spouting generic crap.

As for the SKY example, SKY don't have to answer your question the way you want and Joan Burton doesn't have to answer Mary Lou's question the way you want.

Of course not, but in the case of Sky it makes a mockery of customer service, and in the case of Joan Burton it makes a mockery of the Dail.

She gave an answer.

She did not. She was asked a question and she made an irrelevant statement in reply, not an "answer".

People don't like it, well the ballot box is the place to deal with that, not by breaking democratic rules as SF did.

And we all know how well that tends to work. It was Joan and her crew who promised a better kind of politics for Ireland, and they along with their coalition partners have utterly failed to deliver.

hatrickpatrick

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why, because Mary Lou is running out of standing orders to ignore?

What's the point in having standing orders, when politicians are applauded for deciding that they don't apply to them?

Because part of the role of a chairman is to ensure participants in a debate stay on topic and don't bullsh!t?

crusher000

Sinn Fein still making headlines in the Indo, closely followed by Roy Keane. Great how they can knock so much distance out of one group and knock so much out of a none event in which nobody was struck and the Garda are not investigating any wrong doing. I suppose thay have to fill the pages with something after the drop in advertising over the last few years.

Godge

crusher000 wrote: »

Sinn Fein still making headlines in the Indo, closely followed by Roy Keane. Great how they can knock so much distance out of one group and knock so much out of a none event in which nobody was struck and the Garda are not investigating any wrong doing. I suppose thay have to fill the pages with something after the drop in advertising over the last few years.

Excellent article from the Irish Times today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-naked-face-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-exposed-thanks-to-ma%C3%ADria-cahill-s-courage-1.2001616

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Dan_Solo

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Pity the Shinnerbots have poisoned the comments section already.

It's terrible alright that the goldencirclebot drones have their carefully planned smear bollix utterly destroyed by pesky facts and logic.
Poor dears.

Qualitymark

Funny thing is, Fine Gael were all about "Let's end Civil War politics" when they came in, but they're the worst offenders for using other parties' past to duck legitimate questions. And no, I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter.

Politics, the polity and general relationships between people and groups in Ireland have got increasingly nasty lately, with all this sneering about Blueshirts and Shinners and Scrotes and Scumbags and Parklife and so on. Is this really how we want to live together?

walshb

Godge wrote: »

Excellent article from the Irish Times today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/the-naked-face-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-exposed-thanks-to-ma%C3%ADria-cahill-s-courage-1.2001616

"Micheál Martin and some of his TDs have had regular runs-in with the Ceann Comhairle and the party voted with Sinn Féin against the expulsion of McDonald"

You couldn't trust bloody any of them....

Dan_Solo

I see lately that "Great article in X" just means "some baseless confirmation bias opinion piece I found that has zero facts to add to anything".

Little CuChulainn

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Did you see the Journal one with the poll? They were actually complaining that there was a bot being used to push the poll slightly against them. I think anyone who looks at the ratios of green thumbs to red thumbs on shinner posts can see what way the bot works.

Dan_Solo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Did you see the Journal one with the poll? They were actually complaining that there was a bot being used to push the poll slightly against them. I think anyone who looks at the ratios of green thumbs to red thumbs on shinner posts can see what way the bot works.

Because goldencirclebots wouldn't know how to do that?

nice_guy80

FG/Lab can do what they like, as they have a majority

enforced by the Ceann Comhairle

fergus1001

walshb wrote: »

Right or wrong to remove shouldn't come into it. If it's in the law then it should be enforced. I was wondering it it is in the law that it should happen.

Like all those politicians who got a tax amnesty ? The laws of the land much like the laws of the Dail are fickle and applied where suits not when broken, the whip system in the Dail is a joke and I will only vote for a party with that specifically in their manifesto the next time around

fergus1001

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I see lately that "Great article in X" just means "some baseless confirmation bias opinion piece I found that has zero facts to add to anything".

I agree, I'm not a shin bot but as Joan Burton would say "it has to be said" that Denis o briens media group are pulling out all the stops against them lately

People are baffled that they are pollin so high, well it's because everyone else on the opposition bar the independent s had a hand in where we are now and people are just sick of musical chairs in the Dail

I'll point out again im not a shinner I see in dependants (at least one in every electoral area) as a good counter ballance along with a functional opposition party

nuac

Mary Lou's carry-on with the Ceann Cóirle was to divert attention and try to regain some ground from the drubbing SF got in DÉ the previous day.

The Catholic Church did not succeed in distancing itself from child abuse by SF/IRA. Neither will SF

Dan_Solo

nuac wrote: »

Mary Lou's carry-on with the Ceann Cóirle was to divert attention and try to regain some ground from the drubbing SF got in DÉ the previous day.

The Catholic Church did not succeed in distancing itself from child abuse by SF/IRA. Neither will SF

The Catholic church is dying. SF are the most popular political entity in the land and getting more popular by the day.
Some analogy!

hatrickpatrick

As a matter of interest, if partisan party politics are left to one side for a moment, and regardless of which parties sit in which seats - do people not feel that the Ceann Comhairle should (emphasis on should, regardless of whether he or she currently has either the authority or the obligation) ensure that debates, including questions and answers, remain on topic?

renegademaster

the people are going to tear the dail apart!! way too late to be fixed or stopped now

expectationlost

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As a matter of interest, if partisan party politics are left to one side for a moment, and regardless of which parties sit in which seats - do people not feel that the Ceann Comhairle should (emphasis on should, regardless of whether he or she currently has either the authority or the obligation) ensure that debates, including questions and answers, remain on topic?

apparently according to the rules he doesn't have to in "leaders questions" https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/532943970025091072

only in "parliamentary questions"

SO 40 Standard of Information provided in response to Parliamentary Questions
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/proceduraldocuments/mod16dec2011.doc Standing Orders amendment doc, read it in debates here http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/07/21/00017.asp

but as Catherine Murphy TD says the prinicipal of the rule should be enforced by the CC

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As a matter of interest, if partisan party politics are left to one side for a moment, and regardless of which parties sit in which seats - do people not feel that the Ceann Comhairle should (emphasis on should, regardless of whether he or she currently has either the authority or the obligation) ensure that debates, including questions and answers, remain on topic?

All he should do is follow the democratically decided rules of the Dail. If he doesn't do that, he is not protecting our democracy. If we want the rules changed, we will elect people who will change the rules.

expectationlost

Godge wrote: »

All he should do is follow the democratically decided rules of the Dail. If he doesn't do that, he is not protecting our democracy. If we want the rules changed, we will elect people who will change the rules.

people who say'll they change the rules until they get into government

capnblack

The media and the establishment know when we shinners get in to power, their cosy cartel is over.

crusher000

Mary Lou to attend Dail today as normal. Interesting to see how this unfolds.

Valetta

Happyman42 wrote: »

Her is what she asked Burton to do;

Quote:
She had earlier insisted that Joan Burton should “put people’s minds at rest” and make it clear today that there would be no deductions of unpaid water bills from wages, pensions and social welfare, and no attachment orders made.

Burton evaded the request for whatever reason.

Why on earth would the Tanaiste take instructions from a member of the opposition?

Happyman42

Valetta wrote: »

Why on earth would the Tanaiste take instructions from a member of the opposition?

Why indeed.

raymon

crusher000 wrote: »

Mary Lou to attend Dail today as normal. Interesting to see how this unfolds.

She is going to walk up to the ushers and turn back to make a point and get her face on the papers.


What a gang of whinge bags Sinn Fein have become .

crusher000

They'll fit right in with the rest so

Happyman42

raymon wrote: »

She is going to walk up to the ushers and turn back to make a point and get her face on the papers.


What a gang of whinge bags Sinn Fein have become .

We'll see if the government dare now to introduce methods of payment that SF obviously got wind off.
Just look at what this government tried to get away with charging and doing (PPS numbers) from the begining and what they are now about to propose and tell me the opposition are not working and succeeding on behalf of their voters.
It remains to be seen if this whole shambles doesn't collapse taking the coalition with it.

Dan_Solo

I see the brand spanking new Endependent sanctioned meme is that Sinn Fein are "whinging" whenever the do pretty much anything at all. Wonder will that astoundingly incisive line of attack get ye your popularity points back lads, or will Joe public just laugh and ignore again?

Dan_Solo

raymon wrote: »

She is going to walk up to the ushers and turn back to make a point and get her face on the papers.

Because nobody else <cough Enda Cannae cough> would stoop so low as to buy carefully orchestrated media exposure at the Dail, eh?

raymon

I see what you are trying to do - you are trying to put me as a member of FG or something .

Definitely not so - I am not a member of any party or never have been.

I normally vote for anyone except for FF and SF - that's all

I thought that Sinn Fein were improving but have a pain in my (ear) hole from listening to the the likes of Mary Lou Macdonald whinge bagging around the place .

Dan_Solo

raymon wrote: »

I see what you are trying to do - you are trying to put me as a member of FG or something .

Definitely not so - I am not a member of any party or never have been.

Never said you were a member or even suggested it.
I guessed pretty easily you are a supporter though, so no need to confirm.

raymon

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Never said you were a member or even suggested it.
I guessed pretty easily you are a supporter though, so no need to confirm.

Wrong again

I don't support FG or Enda Kenny

Just because I think Sinn Fein are whingers and self portrayed "victims" does not make me a FG supporter

Cheers !

Dan_Solo

raymon wrote: »

Wrong again

I don't support FG or Enda Kenny

If you vote for him you do.
That's self-evident, no?

raymon

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If you vote for him you do.
That's self-evident, no?

I have never voted for Enda Kenny , and I don't think I would

Why do you continue to try and paint me as a FGer??

I just heard Mary Lou on the radio again whingeing on behalf of Sinn Fein - because that annoyed me doesn't make me want to vote for FG. It just makes me think of Sinn Fein as a group of whingers

hatrickpatrick

Lads can we keep partisan arguments in another thread?

I want to state for the record that I myself voted for Sean Barrett among my top four in the last general election, and as someone who voted for him and his party I am absolutely disgusted at his behavior. The fact that he will be returned automatically at the next election assuming he doesn't retire or resign his post as Ceann Comhairle in the meantime is particularly galling, we won't get the opportunity to voice our displeasure with him by ensuring he gets as few transfers or votes as possible (yet another example of how the "democracy only once every few years" concept leads to accountability for no one). This is far from the first time he has displayed obvious bias in his upholding of the rules.

crusher000

The established parties are facing a backlash and don't like it. Watch their tactics get more agressive and watch come general election the dirt that will be thrown by all sides.

tayto lover

raymon wrote: »

I have never voted for Enda Kenny , and I don't think I would

Why do you continue to try and paint me as a FGer??

I just heard Mary Lou on the radio again whingeing on behalf of Sinn Fein - because that annoyed me doesn't make me want to vote for FG. It just makes me think of Sinn Fein as a group of whingers

Probably because you back up everything they say and do :pac:

raymon

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably because you back up everything they say and do :pac:

Wrong again, I was one of the first posters on here to condemn the stroke that FG were pulling in the John Mc Nulty Seanad controversy.


Please stop making up false stuff.

Godge

raymon wrote: »

I see what you are trying to do - you are trying to put me as a member of FG or something .

Definitely not so - I am not a member of any party or never have been.

I normally vote for anyone except for FF and SF - that's all

I thought that Sinn Fein were improving but have a pain in my (ear) hole from listening to the the likes of Mary Lou Macdonald whinge bagging around the place .

I am like you. I have voted for every political party over the years bar Sinn Fein, there is nothing that could make me vote for them while the leaders of violence are still there and it is a long, long time since I voted for FF, sometime in the 1980s.

Have voted PDs, Greens, Labour, FG and independents (just once, a wasted vote) over the years. The choice nowadays is very limited with the disappearance of the PDs and Greens. Will probably vote Green No.1 at the next election even though their candidate won't have a chance and continue preferences to FG. Would vote for a genuine socialist party which favoured property tax and water charges like every other genuine socialist party in the world but there are none of those in Ireland.

Dan_Solo

raymon wrote: »

I have never voted for Enda Kenny , and I don't think I would

Why do you continue to try and paint me as a FGer??

Hey, they'll never see clear through this laughable attempt at oh so careful wording, will they?
You have voted for FG.
Therefore you have supported Enda Kenny.
Do you really think you're talking your way out of being a FG supporter?

tayto lover

raymon wrote: »

Wrong again, I was one of the first posters on here to condemn the stroke that FG were pulling in the John Mc Nulty Seanad controversy.


Please stop making up false stuff.

Once then you didn't back them up
Look at your "thanks" record too.

BoJack Horseman

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Do you really think you're talking your way out of being a FG supporter?

You make it sound so bad!

Dan_Solo

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You make it should so bad!

Er?

Little CuChulainn

raymon wrote: »

Wrong again, I was one of the first posters on here to condemn the stroke that FG were pulling in the John Mc Nulty Seanad controversy.


Please stop making up false stuff.

Look at Dan_Solos history. He has accused nearly everyone who holds an opposing opinion of being FG. It's his only argument. ignore him and move on.

raymon

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Hey, they'll never see clear through this laughable attempt at oh so careful wording, will they?
You have voted for FG.
Therefore you have supported Enda Kenny.
Do you really think you're talking your way out of being a FG supporter?

I have voted for many parties and independent candidates, except for 2.

I dont really care what you think - I dont know you

Black Swan

MOD REMINDER:
Please focus on the thread topic and not each other. Several of the above posts are "too personal." See Politics charter:

Dr Galen wrote:

No personal abuse or getting too personal (i.e., challenge the post, not the poster).

Dan_Solo

raymon wrote: »

I dont really care what you think - I dont know you

Ahem.

raymon wrote: »

I see what you are trying to do - you are trying to put me as a member of FG or something .

Definitely not so - I am not a member of any party or never have been.

So you did care after all.
And you turned out to be a FG supporter.
Now was that so hard? If you hadn't made the original whine about being "put as a member of FG" none of this would have happened.

MOD: Red carded for ignoring mod instructions about getting "too personal."

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

I am like you. I have voted for every political party over the years bar Sinn Fein, there is nothing that could make me vote for them while the leaders of violence are still there and it is a long, long time since I voted for FF, sometime in the 1980s.

Have voted PDs, Greens, Labour, FG and independents (just once, a wasted vote) over the years. The choice nowadays is very limited with the disappearance of the PDs and Greens. Will probably vote Green No.1 at the next election even though their candidate won't have a chance and continue preferences to FG. Would vote for a genuine socialist party which favoured property tax and water charges like every other genuine socialist party in the world but there are none of those in Ireland.

Always had you down as an FGer - why is it that you seem to endlessly defend every bit of stupidity and incompetence that emanates from our current administration? Until recently you've defended much of the IW shambles, you seemed to be firmly in the pro-Shatter camp when he was exposed as a bumbling muppet earlier in the year, you seem to generally defend FG's treatment of the opposition with contempt and their contempt for parliament...?

Any time I or others have posted criticisms of our current government especially where cronyism and corruption are concerned I tend to notice you relate it back to a previous incident involving FF. While not denying that I despise FF with a fiery passion words can't describe, the fact that you seem to often deflect criticism of FG by bringing up past FF transgressions is one of the main reasons I've always had you down as a supporter.

Why so loathe to criticize our government, if not a party hack? Genuinely curious - is it because you fear that bashing the current government automatically equates to support for the opposition? In my view, it's perfectly possible to regard the entire political clique of this country as a disaster, so that really shouldn't be much of a concern...