Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Care to offer an opinion?

So we are agreed, it is only an opinion whether or not the CC applied double standards. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking me for mine?

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

So we are agreed, it is only an opinion whether or not the CC applied double standards. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking me for mine?

Not at all, the question (which you have yet again failed to answer) was whether people believed he acted as appropriate for his office. If people believe that double standards are acceptable, that's a perfectly valid opinion, albeit one I cannot understand and oppose 100%. As far as I'm concerned, applying the rules differently to different TDs is, *fact*, a double standard. If anyone disagrees with that, they're going to have to work out how to justify that disagreement in the context of the dictionary definition I posted above.

The coalition would be proud of you as Ceann Comhairle, the way you manage to repeatedly quote questions I ask without actually offering an answer to them in your replies

FreudianSlippers

conorh91 wrote: »

If Government domineered the Courts the way it domineers Parliament, it would be interesting to see the reaction from Government cheerleaders. I bet an excuse would be found, nevertheless.

This Government has been anti-democratic from the start in trying to grab as much power as possible. I can't believe they had anyone drinking the Kool-aid on the Seanad abolition.

FreudianSlippers

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not at all, the question (which you have yet again failed to answer) was whether people believed he acted as appropriate for his office. If people believe that double standards are acceptable, that's a perfectly valid opinion, albeit one I cannot understand and oppose 100%. As far as I'm concerned, applying the rules differently to different TDs is, *fact*, a double standard. If anyone disagrees with that, they're going to have to work out how to justify that disagreement in the context of the dictionary definition I posted above.

The coalition would be proud of you as Ceann Comhairle, the way you manage to repeatedly quote questions I ask without actually offering an answer to them in your replies

That's based on the predication that you take it as fact that the rules were applied differently. What you fail to grasp is that the rules were applied proportionately; it was the strop thrown my MLMcD after the application of the rule that got her thrown out. There is no double standard there, and I'd be of that opinion if it was any CC and any TD in those positions.

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not at all, the question (which you have yet again failed to answer) was whether people believed he acted as appropriate for his office. If people believe that double standards are acceptable, that's a perfectly valid opinion, albeit one I cannot understand and oppose 100%. As far as I'm concerned, applying the rules differently to different TDs is, *fact*, a double standard. If anyone disagrees with that, they're going to have to work out how to justify that disagreement in the context of the dictionary definition I posted above.

The coalition would be proud of you as Ceann Comhairle, the way you manage to repeatedly quote questions I ask without actually offering an answer to them in your replies

It is a fact that MLMD acted undemocratically as she rejected a Dail vote and refused to leave the Dail. She realised very quickly overnight the mistake she made and backed down.

It is your opinion that the CC applied double standards and that can only be an opinion. Whether or not I agree with your opinion is immaterial as if I did agree, that would only mean that we have a shared opinion and doesn't change the opinions into fact.

You are entitled to hold your opinion of the CC and others are entitled to hold their opinion if it differs to yours but they are only opinions. Of course the weight of opinion is important to public debate but apart from getting support from SF supporters on boards, there is no weight of public opinion to back up your contention that the CC applied double standards.

conorh91

Godge wrote: »

It is a fact that MLMD acted undemocratically as she rejected a Dail vote and refused to leave the Dail.

Although I believe MLMD was showboating, the above is opinion dressed up as fact.

The idea that there is democratic legitimacy every time either or both Houses of Oireachtas makes a decision cannot be fact. Legitimacy is a purely subjective construct. It is reliant upon the personally-held opinions of the electorate. It cannot be measured objectively, like manure content or noise intensity, which seem to be the major outputs of Dáil Eireann.

hatrickpatrick

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That's based on the predication that you take it as fact that the rules were applied differently. What you fail to grasp is that the rules were applied proportionately;

What does this actually mean? It is a fact, backed up by video evidence and by the Dail record, that the Ceann Comhairle has on several occasions called out rule breaking from the opposition which was ignored from the government in identical circumstances and in the same Dail session.

What exactly do you mean by "they were applied proportionately"? As far as I'm concerned the minute one side is shown even a smidgeon more lenience than the other during a debate (in the Dail or out), the chair of that debate is guilty of bias. I don't think many would find that view unreasonable?

it was the strop thrown my MLMcD after the application of the rule that got her thrown out. There is no double standard there, and I'd be of that opinion if it was any CC and any TD in those positions.

I agree, but again I have to ask how one is supposed to deal with this matter? Did you listen to the clip I posted of Richard Boyd Barrett calling out an almost identical instance of double standards very politely and patiently, and still being ejected from the chamber?

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

It is a fact that MLMD acted undemocratically as she rejected a Dail vote and refused to leave the Dail. She realised very quickly overnight the mistake she made and backed down.

It is your opinion that the CC applied double standards and that can only be an opinion. Whether or not I agree with your opinion is immaterial as if I did agree, that would only mean that we have a shared opinion and doesn't change the opinions into fact.

The Ceann Comhairle's behavior meets the dictionary definition of a double standard. That is not an opinion, that is a fact as found in evidence, the evidence in this case being video evidence and the Dail record.

You are entitled to hold your opinion of the CC and others are entitled to hold their opinion if it differs to yours but they are only opinions. Of course the weight of opinion is important to public debate but apart from getting support from SF supporters on boards, there is no weight of public opinion to back up your contention that the CC applied double standards.

See above.