Gardai proposals to ban firearms

Nekarsulm

How do you go about reporting an illegal weapon stolen? I refer to the stun gun. Unless it was from a Garda evidence locker or suchlike?

Cass

knockon wrote: »

Where are the ones stolen from AGS members and Army recorded?

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THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF the answer comes back as "no comment due to operational security" then they can stick the whole lot up their hole. :mad:

It's like an alcoholic talking down to a drug addict about their wrongs.

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Amazing how many pump action Rifles are stolen.
I would have thought they would be relatively rare in comparison to bolt action models.

And by my quick tally, total semi-Auto shotguns stolen was 21, Pump-Action 16, Bolt Action was 1

They'd be mostly .22 antique guns made by just about every old American gun maker. So 36 of the deadly easily converted mag shotguns were nicked too.:rolleyes:
This is makes an utter farsce of any claims by AGS

SVI40

Sure when I was a kid, this did very nicely as a handgun. Don't know what it would have been classed as if it was ever stolen

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

How do you go about reporting an illegal weapon stolen? I refer to the stun gun. Unless it was from a Garda evidence locker or suchlike?

Maybe some daftie bought one on hols abroad or a foreigner living here and not acustomed to our quaint and simple firearms laws thought they were doing the right thing and reported them stolen?
Next question were there any prosecutions for the breaches in the firearms laws??

Sparks

Cass

I still have to ask, what is "unknown"? how can a firearm be classed as a firearm, and yet not know what it is or how to describe it?

Rosahane

Cass wrote: »

I still have to ask, what is "unknown"? how can a firearm be classed as a firearm, and yet not know what it is or how to describe it?

Maybe they weren't fans of Kipling and couldn't recognise a ten-rupee jezail 👳

Sparks

"Unknown" means there were four rows that had no category entered at all, so I listed them as Unknown.

Deaf git

44 air pistols stolen? Doesn'tsound right.
Sparks, you shoot air pistol, correct? Have you heard about 44 air pistols disappearing? Are there many licensed to start with? Best guess even?

Sparks

If that many had been stolen in NTSA circles, I'd like to think I'd have heard something because that'd be the majority of ISSF air pistols in the country. Pony club might have more, but I haven't heard anything from there either and that many getting stolen would be noticed.

I'd wonder if some of those weren't miscategorised airsoft pistols to be honest.

Cass

There is no wondering, i can guarantee it's a case of mislabeling.

I won't go into it again, but i've told you all about how i was down for 13 guns when i did not have them, and being issued licenses for guns i never had and one that doesn't exist. My Father and a few friends have all had the same.

PULSE is as reliable as a chocolate fireguard.

Nekarsulm

I have 3 guns (real ones) and 9 licences issued. 3 for each gun.
First of all they couldn't get any licence processed and posted to me, and then they wouldn't stop coming...........

Hard to know what way their computer system is configured.

Also, sometime in the future, they might get around to ensuring that when you trade in a gun, or sell it to somebody, that the Licence you hold for that particular gun would be returned to the issuer.

Deaf git

Sparks wrote: »

If that many had been stolen in NTSA circles, I'd like to think I'd have heard something because that'd be the majority of ISSF air pistols in the country. Pony club might have more, but I haven't heard anything from there either and that many getting stolen would be noticed.

I'd wonder if some of those weren't miscategorised airsoft pistols to be honest.

Or unlicensed air pistols bought in the UK.
There are a good few of those knocking around- and the owners don't even know they are in possession of a 'firearm'

Bogwoppit

Cass wrote: »

There is no wondering, i can guarantee it's a case of mislabeling.

I won't go into it again, but i've told you all about how i was down for 13 guns when i did not have them, and being issued licenses for guns i never had and one that doesn't exist. My Father and a few friends have all had the same.

PULSE is as reliable as a chocolate fireguard.

Plus one there, I've had exactly the same.

Melodeon

Sparks wrote: »

Whatever about the others, which you could stretch to meet legally, there 266 rounds of ammunition, 29 gun safes, 62 imitation guns and 12 toy guns listed as firearms when under Section One of the Firearms Act, those four categories are not legally firearms even within the enormously wide definition of that term in Irish law.

Hm.

I'd suspect that these are 266 instances of the theft of unspecified quantities of ammunition, rather than the theft of 266 individual single pieces of ammunition.

It's some load of balls if they're including all this stuff in their grand total though! :mad:

Grizzly 45

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Plus one there, I've had exactly the same.

Likewise..They were fully convinced I's sold one gun and not done the paperwork or informed them.Turned there were two different makers of the same caliber and type of gun with the same serial number.Mine is Anschutz however, the other was a Brno...Fierce confusing that simmilarity for the PULSE.:pac:

bpb101

right so what have we got here, 7 pistols , 1 semi auto rifle (lightly a .22 ) and a 70 pump or semi auto shotguns of what they want to get rid of.
I sense there a few typos(in entering data) 45 pump action rifles robbed compared to 25 pump action shotguns. Unlighlty But however

so By wrecking a sport of 100,000 people in ireland , you will stop 80 firearms in 4 years that 20 a year firearms from being robbed. id say if you go a bit further and made shotguns owners get safes(maybe even just for semi autos and pump because thats their problem) your down to what 10 a year. Fantastic idea, people will sleep well tonight(while 20,000 will have thousands robbed off them by legislation)

Sparks wrote: »

Whatever about the others, which you could stretch to meet legally, there 266 rounds of ammunition, 29 gun safes, 62 imitation guns and 12 toy guns listed as firearms when under Section One of the Firearms Act, those four categories are not legally firearms even within the enormously wide definition of that term in Irish law.

Hm.

yes but GUN sounds a lot scarier than safe :pac:

bluezulu49

Melodeon wrote: »

I'd suspect that these are 266 instances of the theft of unspecified quantities of ammunition, rather than the theft of 266 individual single pieces of ammunition.

It's some load of balls if they're including all this stuff in their grand total though! :mad:

The list has 105 lines labelled Cartridges / Rounds of Ammo with the highest count being 9 so it seems very likely that 266 is indeed the number of instances of ammunition reported stolen rather than the number of individual pieces of ammunition.

The 483 items in the category of Other
are as follows

Sparks

bpb101 wrote: »

yes but GUN sounds a lot scarier than safe :pac:

That's not the point.
Point is, if that figure has been presented to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice as the number of firearms stolen since 2010 by a member of the Gardai, and there are several hundred items in that list that are not legally firearms, then it raises some pointy questions.

As it does for the Minister putting those figures before the Dail. But I suspect there the repercussions would be less dramatic.

Bogwoppit

bluezulu49 wrote: »

The list has 105 lines labelled Cartridges / Rounds of Ammo with the highest count being 9 so it seems very likely that 266 is indeed the number of instances of ammunition reported stolen rather than the number of individual pieces of ammunition.

The 483 items in the category of Other
are as follows

Where was the feckin grenade stolen from!

bpb101

Sparks wrote: »

That's not the point.
Point is, if that figure has been presented to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice as the number of firearms stolen since 2010 by a member of the Gardai, and there are several hundred items in that list that are not legally firearms, then it raises some pointy questions.

As it does for the Minister putting those figures before the Dail. But I suspect there the repercussions would be less dramatic.

Minister just passing on the figures, She dosent know what is or isent a firearm , thats the problem there. It best however she has passed on the list to include what the gardai consider firearms. It will be hard to stand over them in the prime time debate(which i doubt we will see a member from the gardas make a cameo on)
Its will be hard to say "1100 firearms are stolen in the last 4 years" when only about 70 or 80 are the ones they want banned and 400 of them arent "firearms" anywhere else in the world and another handfull are clearly illegal

Deaf git

Does anyone actually, personally know any shooter that had their pistol stolen?
Pistol shooting in Ireland is a bit like the village of Royston Vasey...everyone knows everyone to some extent. I've shot pistol since 2013, been in competitions, ogled other people's pistols, looked at pistols for sale etc but have not met anyone that had their pistol stolen.

knockon

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas sourceI welcome all the groups and thank them for their submissions.
.........................he other issue mentioned about which I am concerned is that of illegal activities and gangs seeking possession of legally held firearms. I agree with Deputy Seán Kenny. I know well Inspector Colm Healy in Coolock Garda Station, who is a top-class garda fighting gangs.



Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas sourceThe theme through many submissions is the very real concern of An Garda Síochána about thefts of legally held firearms.






Seán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas sourceIt has been in the public domain for some time. Chief Superintendent Healy referred to the fact that licensed firearms are sometimes stolen and used by criminal gangs. There are grounds for believing that.

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Would the three member's of the Justice Committee noted above now be willing to ask the committee to recommend that the Minister contact The Phoenix Park and ask the Commissioner to justify the information supplied and how items which are not defined as firearms are included in the figure for firearms stolen? (Although I feel this will be raised in Dail Eireann by Niall Collins FF very shortly)

Further more will they also ask if the majority (over 50%) of the firearms stolen are clearly from the farming community why wasn't there any recommendations in the AGS/DOJ report for changes to the storage of these particular firearms? Maybe CS Healy could be asked to come in and explain how these 29 heinous gun safes and 20 something toys are still "out there" in some criminals hands but safe in the knowledge the National Police force of this Country has them defined in their Police Data base as "Firearms Stolen".

This is a game changer for us and for the better for what I can see.

knockon

Deaf git wrote: »

Does anyone actually, personally know any shooter that had their pistol stolen?
Pistol shooting in Ireland is a bit like the village of Royston Vasey...everyone knows everyone to some extent. I've shot pistol since 2013, been in competitions, ogled other people's pistols, looked at pistols for sale etc but have not met anyone that had their pistol stolen.

A .22 pistols was stolen in Limerick circa 2008/2009 in the Raheen area with I believe the gun safe (not a great one too by all account's.) Prior the SI on safe accommodation it must be noted. I will find out from a buddy in Henry Street and revert with the specifics.

Limerick Sovereigns

It seems to me that they knew that their figures were being padded with non-firearms but chose to release them anyway to maximise the scare tactics. They are not accustomed to having their statements questioned. They are also not used to dealing with people who have as good or better knowledge of firearms and the law.

They can plead ignorance when they are asked to account for the errors. It won't stop them from loosing a lot of credibility with the committee in my opinion.

I think this is an own-goal for TPTB and a boost to our case.

Sparks

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/03/06/the-gunshow

sfakiaman

Melodeon wrote: »

I'd suspect that these are 266 instances of the theft of unspecified quantities of ammunition, rather than the theft of 266 individual single pieces of ammunition.

Actually it records 105 instances of theft with a total of 266 rounds stolen. Even someone who has to take their shoes and socks off to count to twenty can see there is a problem with those figures.

Sparks

The software engineer in me is reasonably sure that where the data says "count", it's saying that in that district, for that year, ammunition was listed as stolen on X seperate occasions and the total amount stolen wasn't noted.

This could mean that when it says 1 firearm was stolen, it just means that there was one report; not necessarily one actual firearm.

crusier

670 firearm certificates issued to under 8 year olds in the UK in the last 5 years, they seem to be having their own debate across the pond!