Do you like being in the European Union?

Arsemageddon

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Ya but outside the Euro, the interest rate would have greatly limited the available money.

With the benefit of hindsight higher interest rates wouldn't have been a bad thing.

The availability of cheap credit played a significant role in our banking collapse.

KomradeBishop

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Interbank lending by eurozone banks isn't restricted to other same Eurozone banks.

If say. BOI wanted to borrow €3bn on a given day, they would probably have borrowed at the best rate they could get.

That may have been a eurozone bank..... It may have been somewhere else cheaper.

The availability of cheap credit again, wasn't only found in the Eurozone. It permeated the entire global credit market.

Still not a reason to blame the bubble on membership of the Euro.

We're talking about what conditions would have been like, outside of the Euro - the interest rate on the Punt would have been set by our central bank, not by trading with European banks.

BoJack Horseman

KomradeBishop wrote: »

We're talking about what conditions would have been like, outside of the Euro - the interest rate on the Punt would have been set by our central bank, not by trading with European banks.

You asked where did banks get their money from.

Whether Irish banks were Punt or Eurozone, cheap credit would still have been available to them on global credit markets.

Whether the home currency was Punt or Euro is immaterial to that reality.

Creating the housing bubble was government policy not the ECBs.
Whether punt or Euro, cheap credit from abroad still would have been available.

KomradeBishop

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You asked where did banks get their money from.

Whether Irish banks were Punt or Eurozone, cheap credit would still have been available to them on global credit markets.

Whether the home currency was Punt or Euro is immaterial to that reality.

Creating the housing bubble was government policy not the ECBs.
Whether punt or Euro, cheap credit from abroad still would have been available.

No I didn't ask that, I asked, if we stayed outside the Euro, where would the money come from? The money would be limited by the interest rate on the Punt.

No country is going to allow their entire mortgage market to be traded with a foreign currency.

Arsemageddon

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You asked where did banks get their money from.

Whether Irish banks were Punt or Eurozone, cheap credit would still have been available to them on global credit markets.

Whether the home currency was Punt or Euro is immaterial to that reality.

Creating the housing bubble was government policy not the ECBs.
Whether punt or Euro, cheap credit from abroad still would have been available.

This kind of ignore the fact that cheap credit was continuously available within Europe's banking system. The debt from the banking collapse is primarily owed to European banks.

Son Of A Vidic

Grayson wrote: »

We got the bailout. .

Oh you mean we saved the collapse of the Euro and contagion. Yes we paid the debts of the big boys who took the risks alright. We were forced to take the shafting. Because if it had of reached the German banks, who eagerly assisted the incompetent Irish banks in their lust for cheap credit. Then the Euro and the über Reich aspirations would have suffered a mortal wound.

Gannicus

I'm a bit of a mixed bag when it come to the E.U.

Obviously I like all of the funding we have have received and the easy movement when it comes to travelling and visiting other countries in the Union I am not all that fond of the impending single European State it is becoming (from my view) between the ECB and Troika and and Brussels I feel than soon my opinion as an irish citizen will become meaningless in comparison to our much larger european counterparts (Germany, France etc).

I would like some of the basic fundamentals of the EU such as free movement of goods and services the visa-less travel but I would to feel like we can remain independent without Big Daddy Deutcshland looking over our shoulder complaining about or corporate tax rate and tax incentives etc for companies to come here

Grayson

costadeldole wrote: »

Do you like being in the European Union?
No, I don't.
Personally I preferred when I had 100 Punt in my pocket to 100 Euro on a Saturday night. When you had 100 Punt in your pocket you had something. 100 Euro is nothing.
The EU was great for Ireland in the 1980's and 1990's pumping billions of Euro into our country. But we gambled much of it away, and now we are broke and in debt.
Before the EU Ireland was broke. Now we are broke and in debt. So it would have been no loss to never have joined the EU. Well the loss would be we wouldn't have debt to pay back.
People talk about the advantages of having a common currency and open borders. But banks exchanging foreign currency is how they make money on commission. That is why the UK sterling remains strong, they charge Euro and USD to be exchanged. Using the Euro and they lose all that revenue stream.
Borders mean import taxes and duty, so that means every time we import we pay tax. But the borders also mean a revenue stream. Not when you use the same currency and have open borders though.

Firstly,this is basic maths. 100 euro is 100 euro. It's not equal to nothing. 100 euro may have less spending power but that's because firstly 1 punt = 1.23 euro. And secondly it's been over a decade of boom since then. Plus remember most items were marked down after the conversion so the euro technically had more spending power.

Ireland may be broke now, but it's a hell of a lot better than the 80's. Even your average family with money problems now has a higher standard of living than they would in the 80's. That's mainly because the EU built this country up. Plus we have a huge amount of inward investment. That comes from being part of the EU.

A bank that depended on foreign exchange commission was a stupid bank. That makes up a small fraction of a banks money.

If the UK leaves it will be a disaster for them. their only big industry at the moment is finance. those companies will up and move to another EU country. Ireland will benefit since we also speak English but we are in the EU.

The rest is all blah, blah, racist drivel

Gannicus

Grayson wrote: »

The rest is all blah, blah, racist drivel

I don't know why I laughed so much at this when I read it.

_Kaiser_

Gannicus wrote: »

I don't know why I laughed so much at this when I read it.

Because that's Ireland now - if you disagree with the whole liberal/EU thing then you must just be a racist and so your point is invalid. :rolleyes:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with (continuously) questioning and asking questions of our political systems - in fact it's our duty really.

You may not always agree with the answers or opinions you get, but that's life in a democracy. It doesn't make their opinion any less valid than yours and resorting to Godwin-like name calling like "racist" rather than debating the points raised is the drivel really.

denhaagenite

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Have a read of this excellent post from a contributor in the politics forum...... In fact everyone should read it.

Something everyone should read tbh when spouting about the troika bailout

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92923412&postcount=25

What a beautiful post. Bravo!

denhaagenite

costadeldole wrote: »

Borders mean import taxes and duty, so that means every time we import we pay tax. But the borders also mean a revenue stream. Not when you use the same currency and have open borders though.

Ya, and nobody would bother with Ireland if they had to constantly pay to bring everything in. Not to mention the cost of those goods to the Irish consumer.

costadeldole wrote: »

During the Celtic Tiger boom lots of Eastern Europeans came to work on the sites. It was good for us, good for them. We needed cheap labour, and they needed work. But now its bust and many are on the dole, they have been here 2 years plus so pass the HRC and get dole the same as any EU citizen. I think Ireland would have been better to stay out of the EU, and keep the Punt and our own sovereignty, so other EU citizens would need a visa to enter, and not be allowed to claim social welfare here.

Many of us also left. I have been on the dole when I was unemployed here in NL. If I couldn't claim it here I would have had to go back to Ireland instead and claim it there, as I'm sure others would have had to do.

costadeldole wrote: »

The truth is, the UK is better keeping Sterling and not using Euro, and retaining its sovereignty. Having their own currency keeps it strong against the Euro and USD. They are not so dependent on their respective economies.

Also having industries that they can rely on for export value helps

costadeldole wrote: »

The problem with being multicultural is when immigrants don't desire to integrate with their new country of choice. One quickly gets ghetto's where one ethnic group chooses to settle in an area; and the crime and social problems that go with that.

This is a problem everywhere and one that the government absolutely has to sort out. Integration and dealing with the backlog of asylum cases and appeals needs to be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

costadeldole wrote: »

So being part of the EU with open borders has its benefits in the boom times; when one needs cheap labour to work long hours and do the dirty work. But in bust times socially people become more racist, and accuse the foreigners of taking their jobs. The truth is often the foreigners hang on to their low-paid jobs, and slowly work their way up; from labourer to supervisor etc. Then when the bust time comes they still have a job and are a supervisor, but the native that turned his nose up at the dirty work in the boom times; is on the dole.

So clearly Ireland has a lot to learn then?

Grayson

Gannicus wrote: »

I don't know why I laughed so much at this when I read it.

It's half a post complaining about how Ireland was better before all the immigrants came over. How when he walks down a street he hears a foreign accent.

It's someone who dislikes foreigners. His argument is that they take crappy jobs that we won't. Then they work really hard. Then when a recession comes they aren't sacked because they are such hard workers. And then racism occurs because lazy irish people are jealous. .
Yeah, that's a reason to not want them here. It's their fault some bigots are racist.

And they form ghettos. Really? Ghetto's in Ireland. The worst neighbourhoods we have are because of Irish scumbags. Plus economic migrants are less likely to be criminals. they move because they want to earn money legally. Look at all the drug gangs in the boom times. they were people like the Westies and INLA. Not migrants.


None of his arguments make any type of sense, but the ones about migrants make the least.