Dublin bus with double buggy?

eviltwin

That 6 week rule doesn't apply to other forms of surgery so why would it apply to sections? My mum in law had abdominal surgery last year and was cleared after 3 weeks to drive by her doctor and that was enough for her insurance company. Just checked the small print of my own policy and it doesn't mention anything about sections at all.

lazygal

Gatling wrote: »

Because it's equal status , somebody in a wheelchair cannot be give priority over another user able bodied or pushing a buggy .

That is not how the ESA works. An able bodied person can fold up a buggy and stand. A wheelchair bound person cannot. I have googled this case with the information you provided and there is no ruling about a young woman who won a case against Dublin Bus because she was asked to fold up her buggy.

If, indeed, there was a ruling to the effect that when pushing a buggy I deserve to be treated the same as someone who cannot stand and fold their wheelchair, I would doubt that would stand up in court and would have been challenged by disability groups, and rightly so.

I think most people can see the difference between an able bodied person pushing a buggy and a person who has no choice but to use a wheelchair.

Gatling

lazygal wrote: »

That is not how the ESA works. An able bodied person can fold up a buggy and stand. A wheelchair bound person cannot. I have googled this case with the information you provided and there is no ruling about a young woman who won a case against Dublin Bus because she was asked to fold up her buggy.

If, indeed, there was a ruling to the effect that when pushing a buggy I deserve to be treated the same as someone who cannot stand and fold their wheelchair, I would doubt that would stand up in court and would have been challenged by disability groups, and rightly so.

I think most people can see the difference between an able bodied person pushing a buggy and a person who has no choice but to use a wheelchair.

Ask then why a bus driver can only ask a buggy user to fold .
It cannot be demanded and there absolutely no obligation to do so .

The only priority is first come first served.

As much as we don't like it this is how it is

lazygal

Gatling wrote: »

Ask then why a bus driver can only ask a buggy user to fold .
It cannot be demanded and there absolutely no obligation to do so .

The only priority is first come first served

You made the claim that there was a ruling, regarding a young woman who was asked to fold her buggy on a bus, and that this set a precedence whereby a person pushing a buggy is treated the same as a person in a wheelchair.
This is not true. There is no such case. There is a boards post from a few years ago about a woman who wondered what the rules were. There is no ESA ruling about this.
There is information on the Dublin Bus website that the driver cannot force people to move, that is true. But this is not because of a ruling under the ESA. And I think, as I said, most people can distinguish between an able bodied person pushing a buggy and a wheelchair user who cannot fold up her or his chair and sit elsewhere.

Gatling

lazygal wrote: »

You made the claim that there was a ruling, regarding a young woman who was asked to fold her buggy on a bus, and that this set a precedence whereby a person pushing a buggy is treated the same as a person in a wheelchair.
This is not true. There is no such case. There is a boards post from a few years ago about a woman who wondered what the rules were. There is no ESA ruling about this.
There is information on the Dublin Bus website that the driver cannot force people to move, that is true. But this is not because of a ruling under the ESA. And I think, as I said, most people can distinguish between an able bodied person pushing a buggy and a wheelchair user who cannot fold up her or his chair and sit elsewhere.

Think what you like .We can all distinguish between able and disabled bodied users that does not make a blind bit of difference .
There is Zero priority

lazygal

Gatling wrote: »

Think what you like .We can all distinguish between able and disabled bodied users that does not make a blind bit of difference .
There is Zero priority

So there is no case in which it was ruled that a young women who was asked to fold up her buggy was wronged, and that is why a driver cannot force anyone to fold a buggy?
I am not disputing that there is zero priority. I am disputing that the reason there is zero priority is because there is a ruling under the Equal Status Act. There is no such case. If there is, I think you should link to it.

Moonbeam

Can we keep this thread on topic please ?

Suucee

I worked in insurance for 7 yrs and recently just left after having my second child. The section question was so common and out reply was always the same. If your doc saus your ok, your ok. We didnt require proof or anything as we could just go back to the doc if needed.

Mine 2 are now 2.5yrs and 7.5mnths and i think getting on a bus with a double buggy would be pretty difficult and stressful never mind recovering from major surgery. . I think try stick to something a bit more local . You be back driving in no time im sure.v

RainyDay

Gatling wrote: »

Because it's equal status , somebody in a wheelchair cannot be given priority over another user able bodied or pushing a buggy .

You don't seem to understand how the Equal Status Acts work. Equal Status does not mean equal treatment. A fundamental principle of Equality and Equality legislation is that you may need to treat people differently to get equal outcomes. The concept of 'reasonable accomodation' is set out in legislation, which allows people with disabilities to require different treatment to ensure they have equal access to services.

Gatling wrote: »

The only priority is first come first served.

As much as we don't like it this is how it is

You can keep restating your view on this as often as you like, but it doesn't really move the issue forward. The Dublin Bus website sets out a clear priority for wheelchair users.

Gatling wrote: »

Think what you like .We can all distinguish between able and disabled bodied users that does not make a blind bit of difference .
There is Zero priority

Not true - the Dublin Bus website sets out a clear priority for wheelchair users. And btw, you can't always distinguish disabilities of other bus passengers. Have you ever heard of hidden disabilities? Or intermittent conditions?

dubstarr

Op like you i had a double buggy and found the bus very hard at first.Its just so sore after your section.I wouldnt risk undoing your stitches for teh sake of going in to town.

I did venture into town but i had my eldest son with me for getting the buggy on and off the bus.He was 16.Just go somewhere local for the time being.

Sligo1

The dart is really good and lots of space if you don't go during rush hour. I have a side by side buggy. My 2 year old loves the novelty of "going on the big train". I've never used the bus with a buggy. Tbh I think if find it too stressful even with only a single buggy. But that could be because I haven't used the bus in years and years. Perhaps they have better services now....

Sligo1

Also... Just for arguments sake about that buggy versus disability debate.... Would OP not be considered "temporarily disabled" and not really be able to be folding a double buggy and carrying 2 babies on a bus? Just because someone has a wheelchair... OP could possibly have one of these "hidden disabilities" previously talked about in this thread. Obviously if the parent were completely able bodied I think they should move. But a mother who has just had abdominal surgery and stitches that could tear... Well I would say they are just as entitled to the "disabled spot" as a person with a wheelchair or with anyother possible hidden disability?

Detached Retina

I drove 3 weeks after my second section, though I heard the "6 week rule" from others, but insurance company didn't have it on their radar - in the US i believe they give you the go ahead after 3 weeks as you should be off the heavy painkillers by then (I guess like here painkiller wise).
Maybe less physical than getting the buggy and kiddies on and off a bus, and generally they are so limited you're waiting for one with an empty bay..in winter brrrr

Big Bag of Chips

No offense to OP, but unless you absolutely have to go on the bus then I wouldn't be bothered with the temporarily disabled argument! If going on a bus with a double buggy, 2 small kids and all the paraphernalia that you need to bring is likely to cause your stiches to tear if you have to try fold the buggy, hold the kids etc.. Then you need to weigh up is the journey worth it?!

If it's only a spin to town to get you out of the house then go for a walk locally!

Sligo1

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

No offense to OP, but unless you absolutely have to go on the bus then I wouldn't be bothered with the temporarily disabled argument! If going on a bus with a double buggy, 2 small kids and all the paraphernalia that you need to bring is likely to cause your stiches to tear if you have to try fold the buggy, hold the kids etc.. Then you need to weigh up is the journey worth it?!

If it's only a spin to town to get you out of the house then go for a walk locally!

But why would OP be any less entitled to get out of the house and out and about than any other disabled person? She shouldn't have to worry about having to fold buggy and tearing her stitches etc etc surely she would be classed as temporarily disabled? She is not completely abled bodied. She is only a few weeks after having major abdominal surgery. But still very entitled as any other person to get out if the house and use the services avaliable to her?

Big Bag of Chips

Of course she's entitled, but that doesn't mean she has to put herself through the hardship. It's just unnecessary. Sounds like the OP hasn't even done it before, with or without kids. I just think now isn't the best time to make the maiden voyage! If she absolutely had to go into Dublin city centre that would be one thing, but surely there's easier places to go to "just get out of the house". It's only for another couple of weeks.

Dublin city centre on an hour bus journey with a new born and a two year old could turn out stressful very quickly for someone in the full of their health. I think, thinking about it less than 2 weeks after a section is madness! I put it down to the hormones, OP!!

Sligo1

I dont know where OP is from.... Just thought it may have been a quick journey into town is all . Id totally agree with you that an hour or more journey with 2 kids is an awful lot to be doing so soon. Just wanted to get opinions on whether OP (or anybody else in the same position) would be regarded as temporarily disabled and therefore entitled to use the disability services on the bus .

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

Ok I've just checked this and its just a boards post, not a legal ruling. I see no actual ruling in a google search. What case, exactly, resulted in a ruling that a buggy doesn't have to be folded if the space is required by a wheelchair user?

There are drivers on the commuting and transport forum who've discussed it a lot. There is no obligation for either party to make room for the other once the space occupied. Its a heated topic as they end up with the complaints thrown at them for something they've no control over.

Big Bag of Chips

She mentioned earlier that "according to Dublin bus" the journey would take an hour, which makes me think she's looking at the time table.

Personally, if I wasn't confident that I could comfortably manage the buggy, babies and bags on and off the bus and around town then I just wouldn't bother. I don't think I'd be confident enough either to refuse to move for a wheelchair user in front of a bus full of people! So I'd just wait until I was up to driving.

dubstarr

Depending where the op lives maybe the dart or Luas would be better.More room and no folding down the buggy.I know op you do get cabin fever being stuck in the house,the park is good just to get some fresh air.

ezra_pound

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sickening-bus-trip-disabled-little-3917822

This article implies prams have same status as wheelchairs.

Sligo1

ezra_pound wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sickening-bus-trip-disabled-little-3917822

This article implies prams have same status as wheelchairs.

That is horrific! What "able bodied person" would not move for these poor people? If I couldn't fold my double id get off and to let them on. It just wouldn't sit right with me to leave them waiting outside. What is happening too society these days!

pwurple

I think it's slightly depressing that the general advice is stay put. I was mad to get going after birth, I felt as light as a feather after the pregnancy, just wanted to jump up and go! I had a 3rd degree tear rather than section, so wasn't up for driving either with those stitches, so I got on buses and trains. I went into the city, met people, had chats and cups of tea.

Now, maybe it's different in Cork city rather than Dublin, but I found people really helpful in general. People at the busstop helped me get the buggy on and off. I used a sling and a single buggy, but on the Cork buses you can fit two in those wheelchair/buggy spots, so I didn't think I was taking up anyone's spot. I went off-peak as well, and really never encountered a full bus, or another person in the wheelchair spot.

It's a crying shame if our public transport system is seen as something that can't be used by women with babies.

Big Bag of Chips

I regularly used Dublin bus with buggies. Even before the days of the wheelchair spaces. But, post section, (2nd in 2 years it would seem) with 2 small children I just wouldn't put myself through it. Another 3 weeks or so you'll be much further along in your recovery. Until then just take it easy.

That doesn't mean stay cooped up, it's just sensible to not try to tackle unfamiliar bus journeys into Dublin when you're not 100% and don't need to.

FactCheck

I am normally absolutely one for just throwing everything I need into a bag and heading out. It always works out and the worst case scenario is never that bad!

But actually, having said that, what would really put me off if I were in your shoes is the time of year. The weather is rubbish. Town is going to be absolutely animal with Christmas shoppers. I just couldn't be bothered!

Moonbeam

If the train is an option I find it the easiest option with my 4,easier then driving and way easier then buses.

Flippyfloppy

Thanks for the advice everyone ! It's really made me think. The whole thing definitely sounds too stressful. Also, don't want to chance rupturing stitches by pushing big heavy buggy onto bus. Yes I had viewed the timetable and it did say an hour however I doubt it could take that long off peak, I used to work in town and the early bus in could take 20 mins! But still, I think I'll leave it, I may consider the train if I have anything in neighbouring towns that I really need to go to.


Unfortunately the town I live in is quite small with not many places to walk - its surrounded by a motorway and estates. Guess I'll be doing a lot of estate gallivanting to ease the cabin fever. Which I agree BBOC, is most definitely caused by hormones!!

seventeen sheep

In my own experience, it's just not worth the hassle of getting the bus - even with just one small baby, and even if you weren't recovering from a section. I've had to do it a few times, and it's a pain in the ass.

No matter how often the buses come, you just can't be guaranteed to get on (if there's a buggy/wheelchair there already.) Folding the buggy isn't really an option while the baby is too small to stand upright alone - where are you going to put them while you fold the buggy? (Never mind trying to keep an eye on a toddler as well!) So whenever I went anywhere, I ended up being far too early (by leaving time to allow for having to miss buses when the space was occupied) or else being late. Which mightn't seem a problem when you're not tied to a certain time, but on the other hand, babies and toddlers have feeding and nap routines that you don't want to disturb too much.

I don't think I've ever been in a position where a wheelchair user needed the space. Of course I'd do the decent right thing and give them the space immediately, but as mentioned, as folding the buggy wouldn't have been an option, I'd just have to get off the bus and wait for the next one (or the one after that, or the one after that) ... not a good idea to be stranded at the side of the road in an unfamiliar area with two small children! Also babies need to be fed so often when they're that young, I'm just imagining the stress of being asked to move mid-feed, and trying to get the hungry baby and the (probably also hungry!) toddler and all of our things off the bus!

On the other hand, I have often travelled on the train and have found it great. Very easy to get around with a buggy, except maybe at peak times. And great for getting the baby to sleep! I also found people were always quick to offer help when lifting the buggy on and off the train - don't be afraid to accept these offers, or to ask for help if you need it - I'm just thinking that the weight of a double buggy and two kids could really put a lot of strain on your stitches!

Julo12

seventeen sheep wrote: »

In my own experience, it's just not worth the hassle of getting the bus - even with just one small baby, and even if you weren't recovering from a section. I've had to do it a few times, and it's a pain in the ass.

No matter how often the buses come, you just can't be guaranteed to get on (if there's a buggy/wheelchair there already.) Folding the buggy isn't really an option while the baby is too small to stand upright alone - where are you going to put them while you fold the buggy? (Never mind trying to keep an eye on a toddler as well!) So whenever I went anywhere, I ended up being far too early (by leaving time to allow for having to miss buses when the space was occupied) or else being late. Which mightn't seem a problem when you're not tied to a certain time, but on the other hand, babies and toddlers have feeding and nap routines that you don't want to disturb too much.

I don't think I've ever been in a position where a wheelchair user needed the space. Of course I'd do the decent right thing and give them the space immediately, but as mentioned, as folding the buggy wouldn't have been an option, I'd just have to get off the bus and wait for the next one (or the one after that, or the one after that) ... not a good idea to be stranded at the side of the road in an unfamiliar area with two small children! Also babies need to be fed so often when they're that young, I'm just imagining the stress of being asked to move mid-feed, and trying to get the hungry baby and the (probably also hungry!) toddler and all of our things off the bus!

On the other hand, I have often travelled on the train and have found it great. Very easy to get around with a buggy, except maybe at peak times. And great for getting the baby to sleep! I also found people were always quick to offer help when lifting the buggy on and off the train - don't be afraid to accept these offers, or to ask for help if you need it - I'm just thinking that the weight of a double buggy and two kids could really put a lot of strain on your stitches!

My experience of trains has been great once you can get to the platform...! My local station is only accessible by 6 flights of stairs or a lift - more often than not the lift is out of service and/or the ppl supposed to be working there haven't been a@@ed to open it. Happened me on wed when I had an appt for my 2 wk old in Holles st. Arrived down with plenty of time, lift boarded up, had already scanned my leap card so had to shout to get the guy to let me out, waited for him to get off the phone, asked him why the lifts were out again - told me they're just being services, didn't know when they'd be finished and no he couldn't help me up the stairs as he has a bad back... I had to walk 15 mins to the next station -luckily it is quite close.
In town generally the lifts are ok I think I've only had to bump down the stairs once in each of Tara at and pearse...

seventeen sheep

Julo12 wrote: »

My experience of trains has been great once you can get to the platform...! My local station is only accessible by 6 flights of stairs or a lift - more often than not the lift is out of service and/or the ppl supposed to be working there haven't been a@@ed to open it. Happened me on wed when I had an appt for my 2 wk old in Holles st. Arrived down with plenty of time, lift boarded up, had already scanned my leap card so had to shout to get the guy to let me out, waited for him to get off the phone, asked him why the lifts were out again - told me they're just being services, didn't know when they'd be finished and no he couldn't help me up the stairs as he has a bad back... I had to walk 15 mins to the next station -luckily it is quite close.
In town generally the lifts are ok I think I've only had to bump down the stairs once in each of Tara at and pearse...

It's only happened me once that the lift was out of order in Blackrock, I phoned the station and the guy working there came over and between us we lifted the buggy up over the bridge to the other side. Certainly wouldn't be an option in the OPs case, right after a C section! So it's definitely something to consider.

One thing that's often crossed my mind since having a baby, is that you don't realise how tricky everyday things must be for those in wheelchairs! E.g. in my case above, there was only one guy working in the station - we could manage the buggy between the two of us, but if I'd been a wheelchair use and there was no one else around to lift the wheelchair over, we would have been stranded. I guess I'd have just had to wait an hour, get on the next train, and wheel myself back from the next station!

We don't realise how lucky we have it sometimes.