Access for a 15 week old

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

Mine are 2.5 and 15 months and I haven't left them overnight with anyone, apart from when I was in hospital having my second. I haven't needed to leave them with anyone though.
It's all very well for adults to arrange access and overnights, but that isn't always in the best interests of the child. For various reasons I had to be left with relatives when I was quite young and I still remember feeling abandoned.

What do you think will be the impact? I'm assuming they know the wider family well so what would be the problem? I've had overnights away from my kids many times both on my own and with my husband for our own sanity. They have always been with grandparents or aunts and uncles and have been fine. Its okay to have time out from your children, it won't scar them.

lazygal

runawaybishop wrote: »

I have also had 2 kids, does that make us equal or could it be that it doesn't matter how many kids either of us have had? Should we both shut up and take the advice of someone with 12 kids? I didn't realise that if someone has less kids than someone else their opinion is lesser.

Anyway, what way would you suggest that doesn't involved the child being forced to spend large amounts of time away from the father?

It very much looks to me that you are suggesting the bond between father and child is far less important than the bond between mother and child. Both are should be equally important for the childs well being.

You might think that and I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but I have said, and I repeat it here, that I am not suggesting that the bond with a father is far less important, just than in the circumstances where the baby does not have its father around all the time the methods of bonding are different.

OldNotWIse

runawaybishop wrote: »

I have also had 2 kids, does that make us equal or could it be that it doesn't matter how many kids either of us have had? Should we both shut up and take the advice of someone with 12 kids? I didn't realise that if someone has less kids than someone else their opinion is lesser.

Anyway, what way would you suggest that doesn't involved the child being forced to spend large amounts of time away from the father?

It very much looks to me that you are suggesting the bond between father and child is far less important than the bond between mother and child. Both are should be equally important for the childs well being.

Agree with you. Sadly, this kind of "mother is best" mentality is part of the reason why fathers are shunned so much by the legal system as we know it today. It's terribly unfair on separated fathers and grossly insulting to single fathers.

lazygal

runawaybishop wrote: »

So daytime visits are grand for a dad but not enough for a mum? How does that logic work?

Biology. Basic common sense.

OldNotWIse

lazygal wrote: »

Biology. Basic common sense.

You're going to have to expand on that...

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

You might think that and I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but I have said, and I repeat it here, that I am not suggesting that the bond with a father is far less important, just than in the circumstances where the baby does not have its father around all the time the methods of bonding are different.

Most dads aren't around all the time, they are at work. They still manage to form a bond. I don't see any reason for this man to be denied his right to have a relationship with his own child. He's not talking about taking the child for prolonged periods, just overnight.

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

What do you think will be the impact? I'm assuming they know the wider family well so what would be the problem? I've had overnights away from my kids many times both on my own and with my husband for our own sanity. They have always been with grandparents or aunts and uncles and have been fine. Its okay to have time out from your children, it won't scar them.

I have time out, I just don't need to leave them overnight. I also don't want my parents to have to be up early with them and deal with upset children. I'd rather wait until they're older and have more of a concept of time and how long 'overnight' is. What is right for one family isn't for another.

runawaybishop

lazygal wrote: »

Biology. Basic common sense.

Basic common sense indicates the child spends time equally with both parents. Biology won't make that impossible.

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

Most dads aren't around all the time, they are at work. They still manage to form a bond. I don't see any reason for this man to be denied his right to have a relationship with his own child. He's not talking about taking the child for prolonged periods, just overnight.

Overnight is a prolonged period for a 15 week old.

bjork

leanonme wrote: »

Hope some one can help. My friend has a 15 week old baby. She is not with the baby's father, and they are not geting on well at the minuite and arranging access is becoming a battle.

Currently he keeps changing the days, times and is demanding she either brings the child to his house or collects it from his house, and provide the food, napped cloths etc for these visits, as he believes his 50 maintainance is providing half of the child's needs. He is also stating he wants to have over nights, and have the child three days a week and possibly the weekend.

She wants to come up with a more formal agreement but is not sure of how to go about this, and is not sure of what the norm is.

Who should she speak to about creating an agreement between them.

Also how much access is considered the norm.

3 days a week & the weekends?
is that not the majority of the week?

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

Overnight is a prolonged period for a 15 week old.

So its okay for a mum to go back to work and leave her child for the best part of a day but overnight is an issue Don't buy it at all. Personal preference is one thing but implying there is a risk to the psyche of the child is unfair.

Barely There

lazygal wrote: »

It is simple biology. My children settled with me and needed me more than my husband until they started sleeping through the night.

So we should start basing access arrangements for separated fathers around your kids' needs?

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

So its okay for a mum to go back to work and leave her child for the best part of a day but overnight is an issue Don't buy it at all. Personal preference is one thing but implying there is a risk to the psyche of the child is unfair.

I was in a creche at 12 weeks of age. I made different choices for my children. Mainly because I was breastfeeding and couldn't physically be away from them when they were at a very young age. We don't know if that is it the case in this situation, but night time feeding is important for breastfeeding and as my second child simply refused to take bottles at all, until he slept through the night and started solids I had to be there to feed him. And my children were older when I left them to go back to work, no way was I away from them for a full day at 15 weeks old.

lazygal

Barely There wrote: »

So we should start basing access arrangements for separated fathers around your kids' needs?

No, around the needs of the fathers' children.

Big Bag of Chips

lazygal wrote: »

Because they were struggling out of dad's arms and reaching for me.

You must have had very advanced 15 week olds. I've had 4 children and none of them were able to reach for me at 15 weeks! My youngest is now 8 months, and she still doesn't reach her arms out to be taken - she might lean towards whoever is putting their hands out to her, but she is certainly not reaching yet.

a 15 week old needs to be fed, loved and kept warm. They're not really too bothered who does it so long as the person knows what they are doing. I think it is usually around 8, 9 10 months before a baby even starts to "make strange". Your kids might have squirmed because they were hungry and needed to be fed. My daughter will squirm if she has a dirty nappy - even if I'm holding her!

OP, your friend needs to either go to mediation with her ex to try come up with a more definite and regular plan for access, or if that doesn't work out and they can't agree then they go to court and a judge will decide it for them. Even if things are made official - they both need to be a bit flexible with each other. Things will occassionally come up where either of them might need to change an access day, so they need to be accommodating to each other. But if there is too much chopping and changing then they might have to agree to stick rigidly to the agreement.

There is no real reason that a 4 month old baby cannot have overnights with her dad (unless being exclusively breastfed) By the time they get to court/mediation etc the baby could be 5 or 6 months anyway.

tinkerbell

eviltwin wrote: »

Most dads aren't around all the time, they are at work. They still manage to form a bond. I don't see any reason for this man to be denied his right to have a relationship with his own child. He's not talking about taking the child for prolonged periods, just overnight.

Did you not read the OP? He wants the baby 3 days a week, overnights and weekends. How on earth is that not prolonged periods?

This is not an anti-father's rights campaign either - I'm all for fathers being able to see their child, but to me, taking a 15 week old away for prolonged periods / overnight etc at 15 weeks old is absurd unless absolutely necessary - eviltwin, you had to go back to college so you had no choice. This is an entirely different scenario.

Whispered

This is a very interesting conversation! I'm due in the next two weeks and have been having terrible trouble sleeping. I was hoping (probably naively) that within a few weeks of birth I could sneak off to the back room for an unbroken few hours, leaving baby with my husband overnight. Would that also be considered stressful for the baby?

We have also been chatting about going away for a night for our birthdays when the baby is 5 months old. Again, is this too young? Baby would would have their aunt or grandmother stay here with them, both of whom he or she will see on a very regular basis.

(As you can probably tell this will be our first )

lazygal

Whispered wrote: »

This is a very interesting conversation! I'm due in the next two weeks and have been having terrible trouble sleeping. I was hoping (probably naively) that within a few weeks of birth I could sneak off to the back room for an unbroken few hours, leaving baby with my husband overnight. Would that also be considered stressful for the baby?

We have also been chatting about going away for a night for our birthdays when the baby is 5 months old. Again, is this too young? Baby would would have their aunt or grandmother stay here with them, both of whom he or she will see on a very regular basis.

(As you can probably tell this will be our first )

It depends on the baby. My first took a bottle no problem and I breastfeed her too, and it worked out ok, but the most I would have left her for was an hour or so in the afternoon. My second was very clingy, would only settle with me and never took a bottle at all, so I had to be there to feed him (and I tried many different bottles and methods, he was having none of it). Both slept through from about six months old.

ETA night feeding is really important for breastfeeding. I didn't really sleep a full night until my babies decided to and were ready to so do.

eviltwin

tinkerbell wrote: »

Did you not read the OP? He wants the baby 3 days a week, overnights and weekends. How on earth is that not prolonged periods?

This is not an anti-father's rights campaign either - I'm all for fathers being able to see their child, but to me, taking a 15 week old away for prolonged periods / overnight etc at 15 weeks old is absurd unless absolutely necessary - eviltwin, you had to go back to college so you had no choice. This is an entirely different scenario.

I don't agree with most of the week as its unfair but one or two nights a week I don't see a problem with. My child didn't know the reason I wasn't there, I just wasn't there but she was with her dad and granny and got on great, there were no issues at all. I was more upset than she was. It was also a lot easier for us as she got older to go away without her as she was used to it.

tinkerbell

Whispered wrote: »

This is a very interesting conversation! I'm due in the next two weeks and have been having terrible trouble sleeping. I was hoping (probably naively) that within a few weeks of birth I could sneak off to the back room for an unbroken few hours, leaving baby with my husband overnight. Would that also be considered stressful for the baby?

We have also been chatting about going away for a night for our birthdays when the baby is 5 months old. Again, is this too young? Baby would would have their aunt or grandmother stay here with them, both of whom he or she will see on a very regular basis.

(As you can probably tell this will be our first )

That's completely different! Your husband will have been around baby most of the time since birth and baby will be very familiar with him (not the same scenario as OP) and if baby needs you, you're only in the next room and can get up.

As for when baby is 5 months - depends on the child, you'll know yourself when the time comes. Life's very different when a baby arrives, you may not even want to go away overnight for the birthday!!

eviltwin

Whispered wrote: »

This is a very interesting conversation! I'm due in the next two weeks and have been having terrible trouble sleeping. I was hoping (probably naively) that within a few weeks of birth I could sneak off to the back room for an unbroken few hours, leaving baby with my husband overnight. Would that also be considered stressful for the baby?

We have also been chatting about going away for a night for our birthdays when the baby is 5 months old. Again, is this too young? Baby would would have their aunt or grandmother stay here with them, both of whom he or she will see on a very regular basis.

(As you can probably tell this will be our first )

All depends on the child. I did alternate nights with the husband so every second night we each got a full nights sleep. It was good for him and good for me. I also left my son with him overnight when he was two weeks old to take my eldest to a gig, he was terrified being left alone with a newborn but it was fine and was great for his confidence as a dad. Play it by ear but don't feel guilty for taking some time to yourself if you need it.

Barely There

Whispered wrote: »

This is a very interesting conversation! I'm due in the next two weeks and have been having terrible trouble sleeping. I was hoping (probably naively) that within a few weeks of birth I could sneak off to the back room for an unbroken few hours, leaving baby with my husband overnight. Would that also be considered stressful for the baby?

Of course you can. It won't be in the least stressful for the baby.

I frequently took both of mine into the spare room from when they were born to give my wife a bit of unbroken sleep. Although my wife breastfeed for the first few months we always had a night-time bottle feed so that I could help out.

I wouldn't listen to some of the more hysterical posts on here.

Baby's need love, attention and to be cared for - whether that is by the father or mother is immaterial to the baby.

Whispered

tinkerbell wrote: »

if baby needs you, you're only in the next room and can get up.

Not if I wedge the earplugs in properly and lock the door :pac: Ah no I'm only joking.

I wasn't trying to make a point in asking or anything, genuinely wondering if it's an ok thing to do.

Big Bag of Chips

Barely There wrote: »

Baby's need love, attention and to be cared for - whether that is by the father or mother is immaterial to the baby.

.. or granny or grandad or neighbour.. etc!

lazygal

Whispered wrote: »

Not if I wedge the earplugs in properly and lock the door :pac: Ah no I'm only joking.

I wasn't trying to make a point in asking or anything, genuinely wondering if it's an ok thing to do.

You'll work out what works for you as a family. I had great plans for the first, most of which I stuck to, but my second was a different child altogether and we changed things slightly because they worked better. I never saw myself as the extended breastfeeding type but its worked out that way for us. You'll know what works in your case.

leanonme

Sorry been away from the computer. My friend is open to him having regular access with the child. They were not to gether when the child was born, so she offered for him to come to her house as often as he liked to spend time with the child. He did that for a while, but in the last two weeks has told her he no longer wants this but wants access in his house. Which she was open too also, however for these visits he believes she must provide everything the child needs, as he does not and will not purchase nappys, food, bottles, he has noting for the child and has purchased noting for him either.

When in my friends house she wanted to show him how to make btls etc and he didnt want to learn. And now he is refusing to have access with the child if she does not either drop him to his house, or pick him up from his house. up to this point she was willing to drop him off or pick him up, but she wanted to change the time by an hour as she would be in the town at that time he reused to allow her to do this, so she told him he could bring the child back to her house instead, and told her if she didnt pick up the child at 16.00 then he would presume the child is staying with him for the night. (even tho he would have no food, or cot for the child).

Is it normal for one person to pick up the child and another to drop of the child. The father also lives in a house share which adds to the concern for the mother for over nights visits, but she has said once the child is over six months old overnights could start.

OldNotWIse

leanonme wrote: »

Sorry been away from the computer. My friend is open to him having regular access with the child. They were not to gether when the child was born, so she offered for him to come to her house as often as he liked to spend time with the child. He did that for a while, but in the last two weeks has told her he no longer wants this but wants access in his house. Which she was open too also, however for these visits he believes she must provide everything the child needs, as he does not and will not purchase nappys, food, bottles, he has noting for the child and has purchased noting for him either.

When in my friends house she wanted to show him how to make btls etc and he didnt want to learn. And now he is refusing to have access with the child if she does not either drop him to his house, or pick him up from his house. up to this point she was willing to drop him off or pick him up, but she wanted to change the time by an hour as she would be in the town at that time he reused to allow her to do this, so she told him he could bring the child back to her house instead, and told her if she didnt pick up the child at 16.00 then he would presume the child is staying with him for the night. (even tho he would have no food, or cot for the child).

Is it normal for one person to pick up the child and another to drop of the child. The father also lives in a house share which adds to the concern for the mother for over nights visits, but she has said once the child is over six months old overnights could start.

He doesn't really sound mature enough to be left with a small baby

Big Bag of Chips

He is obviously not too interested in having much access to the child so is putting down all these conditions that he knows she probably won't agree to so that when he doesn't take up access he can tell everyone it's her fault.

Tell her to get onto a solicitor or a mediator.

leanonme

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Tell her to get onto a solicitor or a mediator.

Thats what I advised her to do, and I hope it is what she does. All the text messages from him came across as totally controlling, when she agreed to what he wanted he changed him mind etc.

Big Bag of Chips

She will never please him. Anything she agrees to will then change to make it more difficult again. Do they live far apart? They could come to an arrangement where they each collect from the other's house - or they meet half way. If he is really interested in seeing his child he will find a way to. If he is not interested he will find a way not to.