Target Practice

Bungy Girl

Sorry to hear you're not 100% Dubgal. Hopefully that pharmaceutical haul will sort you out. I've been taking the Kelkin women's multivitamin (the dissolvable one, think it's cranberry flavour) and have to say found it great, even though I'd always have said we should get all our vitamins and minerals from food, I think sometimes we need a bit extra. Also take acidophilus (Solgar brand) every day. Hope you're back to yourself soon and ready to smash that track race (what distance?)

Dubgal72

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Sorry to hear you're not 100% Dubgal. Hopefully that pharmaceutical haul will sort you out. I've been taking the Kelkin women's multivitamin (the dissolvable one, think it's cranberry flavour) and have to say found it great, even though I'd always have said we should get all our vitamins and minerals from food, I think sometimes we need a bit extra. Also take acidophilus (Solgar brand) every day. Hope you're back to yourself soon and ready to smash that track race (what distance?)

Thanks BG, yeah I'm from the 'food as medicine' school too but this time have caved (see photo ) I'll check your recommendations out, at this stage I will ingest anything with the thesis that one of them will work
It's a 1500, Wicklow county ch'ships so would like to be in form for it, even though it is really only a leg loosener for the 3k on Monday.

pconn062

Just throwing this out there DG, but would over-racing be another area of concern? You've been getting through a few races recently (if I remember correctly!) and sometimes I find after a few races I start to feel a little run down, especially if I am still doing sessions in between.

Dubgal72

pconn062 wrote: »

Just throwing this out there DG, but would over-racing be another area of concern? You've been getting through a few races recently (if I remember correctly!) and sometimes I find after a few races I start to feel a little run down, especially if I am still doing sessions in between.

You've got a point *P, and yes, the immune system is compromised for up to three days after a race or hard session, isn't it? That's probably why coachy recommended easy running now in between races. I have a couple of weeks break after Monday until the Terenure 5 and after that, races until the end of June will only be every two weeks. After that, I think it's rest and base building for xc season.



*four races in April, if I include the two this weekend that will be six in just over a month....I suppose/hope the 1 mile, 3ks and 1500 stress the body considerably less and need less recovery time. I do have to accept that I am no longer a spring chicken :rolleyes:

Bungy Girl

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Thanks BG, yeah I'm from the 'food as medicine' school too but this time have caved (see photo ) I'll check your recommendations out, at this stage I will ingest anything with the thesis that one of them will work
It's a 1500, Wicklow county ch'ships so would like to be in form for it, even though it is really only a leg loosener for the 3k on Monday.

Now that is an impressive stash! Something's bound to work, and you can console yourself with the Bushmills in the meantime

Feel better soon.

Firedance

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Log report w/b Mon 27 April

Mon 27
8 miles easy
Stretching throughout the day, Achilles and under heel tight. Going to investigate AIS (Active Isolated Stretching) further, I have a funny feeling it's not far from the dressing-gown-rope stretching I've seen my dad do on the living room floor for years. He might be the one for an on-the-spot
..

fyi this is one of the AIS routines I use, great for calves & achilles http://www.runnersworld.com/stretching/how-stretch-your-calf-muscles

hope you're feeling better soon! that's quite a concoction of potions you have there :-)

Ososlo

Did someone mention AIS?:D

The Phil Wharton AIS video I used to follow has been removed from You Tube for some reason but I do it by memory now (might do my own version for You Tube!). However, this video includes all/most of the stretches that are good for hamstrings, hip abductors etc and give tips on breathing etc.

Go forth and AIS:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1gk_tHVxn4

Dubgal72

Firedance wrote: »

fyi this is one of the AIS routines I use, great for calves & achilles http://www.runnersworld.com/stretching/how-stretch-your-calf-muscles

hope you're feeling better soon! that's quite a concoction of potions you have there :-)

Ososlo wrote: »

Did someone mention AIS?:D

The Phil Wharton AIS video I used to follow has been removed from You Tube for some reason but I do it by memory now (might do my own version for You Tube!). However, this video includes all/most of the stretches that are good for hamstrings, hip abductors etc and give tips on breathing etc.

Go forth and AIS:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1gk_tHVxn4

Thanks FD and Os, they are now on the exercise lists! I may need a booklet at this stage :eek: I did the Achilles stretch (recommended by ECOLII) thoroughly on Monday night and Last night. It works like a dream!

Dubgal72

Fwiw...just for fun *
I've been tracking my vdot progression every now and then for a while and this progression is shown in the top part of the table. Since I've started to race, the increase is roughly 8 points; a point per month. As a matter of interest, I charted my vdot as a teen (I could only use 1500 and 3k results) but both these gave me a vdot of 60, which would require an increase of - you got it - roughly 8 points. Now I don't expect to gain another 8 points over the next eight months but let's see how it goes....

VDOT progression and target (as close as I can to 60 :eek: )

Month|2014 Aug 1 | Aug 2|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec|2015 Jan |Feb |Mar |April 1 | April 2 | April 3 | April 4
Distance | 10mi |5k | HM | M | | 5k | 5mi | 10k | | 3k |10mi | 1mi | 5k
Time| 78:04 | 21:38| 1:41:08| 3:54:xx| | 20:33| 33:28|42:13| | 11:34|69:28|5:46|19:29
|||||||||||||
Vdot (R/W) |?|44.5|44.5|39 ||48.5|?|48.5||50|?|?|51.5
Vdot (run bayou)| 43|45|44|39||48|49|48||49|50|50|51
Vdot (JD)|43|45.4|44.3|40.1||48.2|49|48.8||49.9|49.2|50.6|51.4
|||||||||||||
Haha next...|||||||||||||
Distance|1500|1 mile|3k|5k|10k|HM|Marathon
Vdot score 53|5:07|5:32|10:58|18:58|39:20|1:27:04|3:01:39|||
Vdot score 55|4:57|5:21|10:37|18:22|38:06|1:24:18|2:56:01|||
Vdot score 57 |4:48|5:11|10:17|17:49|36:57|1:21:43|2:50:45|||
Vdot score 59 |4:39|5:02|9:58|17:33|35:52|1:19:18|2:45:47
Vdot score(RW) 60 as a teen=|4:35|4:57|9:50|17:03|35:22?|1:18:09|2:43:xx


* I heard that :mad: 'faaaar too much time on her hands!'

Bungy Girl

Never mind the vDots, that is one fancy table!! Full of admiration for your table skills (and, ok, maybe the vDots as well

adrian522

Yeah, very nice table. Are you planning on racing those distances in the second half of the year though?

Dubgal72

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Never mind the vDots, that is one fancy table!! Full of admiration for your table skills (and, ok, maybe the vDots as well

Haha thanks BG, it was quite simple...but time consuming and I'm a little bit tired now and may need a lie down for a while....:D

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, very nice table. Are you planning on racing those distances in the second half of the year though?

Thanks Adrian, I'll probably take in up to a HM but definitely not a marathon.

spaceylou

Hope the cold is getting better with the various concoctions you have and best of luck with race at weekend

annapr

I have very little idea what your very impressive table is actually saying...

but I did read an article at the weekend about Paula Radcliffe... her VDOT was 70 at 17, when most elite runners are around 60... seemed impressive to me.

Hope you feel better soon!

adrian522

That's her V02 Max that was 70..which i guess is what VDOT is based on...

annapr

adrian522 wrote: »

That's her V02 Max that was 70..which i guess is what VDOT is based on...

well, I did admit that I hadn't a clue what it was sounded impressive though...

Dubgal72

spaceylou wrote: »

Hope the cold is getting better with the various concoctions you have and best of luck with race at weekend

thanks spaceylou, as I said, something has to work doesn't it?!

annapr wrote: »

I have very little idea what your very impressive table is actually saying...

but I did read an article at the weekend about Paula Radcliffe... her VDOT was 70 at 17, when most elite runners are around 60... seemed impressive to me.

Hope you feel better soon!

Thanks anna, yeah I'm not too up on the science and am hoping nobody takes a technical interest in it It's really mostly an interesting tool to see if my times correlate across the board. It backs up what I intuitively felt was a 'good' race (all 3 5ks and the five mile) or a 'slightly disappointed' one (the 10k).

annapr wrote: »

well, I did admit that I hadn't a clue what it was sounded impressive though...

see my confession too

Dubgal72

adrian522 wrote: »

That's her V02 Max that was 70..which i guess is what VDOT is based on...

Ok, I'll let you get technical...explain please? (be gentle please)

NetwerkErrer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ok, I'll let you get technical...explain please? (be gentle please)

VO2max is a physiological measurement, essentially based on your maximal oxygen uptake and body weight. It's not a measure of how fast you are.

VDOT is a measure of how fast you are, it not a measure of how much oxygen you take in or body weight.

Both are completely different.

annapr

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

VO2max is a physiological measurement, essentially based on your maximal oxygen uptake and body weight. It's not a measure of how fast you are.

VDOT is a measure of how fast you are, it not a measure of how much oxygen you take in or body weight.

ah... are they related at all?

I assume if you are faster you are likely to be using oxygen more efficiently??

anyhow, didn't mean to derail... I was just showing off that I had read the Radcliffe article because I didn't understand DG's table (where's the emoticon for morto...?).

adrian522

Well Vo2 Max (as far as I know) is a measure of how much oxygen you can get into your lungs when going flat out. It's measured in litres/min I think.

This is what they measured Paula for at 17, you can do a test in a lab to get your VO2 Max, the higher it is the better your fitness. The newer garmins try to estimate your Vo2 max based on the activities you do.
Mine is currently estimated at 52 on the garmin.

Vdot is a term Jack Daniels came up with. Essentially he noticed that the performance of 2 elite athletes were more or less the same even though they had different V02 Max values.

Daniels assigns a VDOT (equivelent or effective v02 Max value) based only on race performances and then prescribes training paces based on that. There are tables out there for

1. Calculating your VDOT based on a recent race result.
2. Taking that VDOT and getting the paces you should do, easy/tempo/interval etc as well as equivalent times at different distances

It is this that Dubgal has posted above. Current VDOT is 51 so that would give a 1:30 half for example. And the training paces should be 8:07 - easy, marathon pace - 7:09, 1k interval pace - 3:51 400m rep pace - 86 sec etc

You then train at those paces until you run a race that results in a higher VDOT and then you repeat the process.

This is all in his book, "Daniels Running Formula". Good read if you are into the geekier side of running.

NetwerkErrer

annapr wrote: »

ah... are they related at all?

I assume if you are faster you are likely to be using oxygen more efficiently??

anyhow, didn't mean to derail... I was just showing off that I had read the Radcliffe article because I didn't understand DG's table (where's the emoticon for morto...?).

Haha! Yeah, Paula's Vo2max was pretty high for her age. The relationship between both is tiny. A high Vo2max helps but economy and all that other jargon comes into play for performance.

Some Nordic skier has a 97 vo2max but he wouldn't have a hope of running faster than an elite runner with 65.

Vdot is a combination of all the things that make up how fast you run. Vo2max is only one measurement. Vdot is just a good way to plot out where your weakness are by using a number to define it.

And as Adrian mentioned, training paces etc.

Dubgal72

No, that was in no way a 'derail' Anna, I really appreciated all the above, thanks guys, much clearer now.*






*although it has to be said it took yis 50-blinking-two pages to cough up that info

Ps Oh and Adrian, I find my MP rather disturbing (hadn't pursued the recommended training paces), indeed it brought on a fit of nervous coughing....26.2 miles at THAT pace :eek:

annapr

Dubgal72 wrote: »

No, that was in no way a 'derail' Anna, I really appreciated all the above, thanks guys, much clearer now.*






*although it has to be said it took yis 50-blinking-two pages to cough up that info

right, I'm off to find a VDOT calculator now

laura_ac3

I still don't know what a vdot is or how to calculate it and I'm too tired to read Adrian's post - I'll come back to it......in the meantime feel better soon A!

Firedance

here's a calculator https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/#modVDOT

I just entered this evenings 5K race into it - its clearly broken though...:o

menoscemo

Firedance wrote: »

here's a calculator https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/#modVDOT

I just entered this evenings 5K race into it - its clearly broken though...:o

Actually I just checked a few things. That calculator is excellent I would say as it breaks Vdots down into .1 measures. The training paces suggested look spot on to me; much better than the current Mcmillan.

Firedance

menoscemo wrote: »

Actually I just checked a few things. That calculator is excellent I would say as it breaks Vdots down into .1 measures. The training paces suggested look spot on to me; much better than the current Mcmillan.

yah I was alluding to my crappy result

Bungy Girl

Firedance wrote: »

here's a calculator https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/#modVDOT

I just entered this evenings 5K race into it - its clearly broken though...:o

Yup, definitely broken for me too ;).

Dubgal72

Firedance wrote: »

here's a calculator https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/#modVDOT

I just entered this evenings 5K race into it - its clearly broken though...:o

Maybe you did what I did with that calculator? I put the minutes into the hours box?? :eek:



Ps look what happens when I go to bed early, can I just say that you guys were up faaaar too late, runners need their rest don't you know?! (said with the zeal of the converted )