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Target Practice

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Another pb?
    Can't say I'm surprised.
    Well done :)

    The first/third miles are definitely the fastest part of that course. It's difficult not to go out hard. I followed the pacers without looking at my Garmin last year and it nearly ruined my race. Sounds like you did something a little bit similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Another pb?
    Can't say I'm surprised.
    Well done :)

    The first/third miles are definitely the fastest part of that course. It's difficult not to go out hard. I followed the pacers without looking at my Garmin last year and it nearly ruined my race. Sounds like you did something a little bit similar.

    Thanks P...it was a hard-earned one. I totally ruined my race... Had hoped to take a bit more off :rolleyes: The comments above are helping me to sort races now into '5k and less' and '5miles and more' for strategies. I'll get there ;)
    Good luck yourself tomorrow!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Back to business...(before I forget...)

    Fri 15
    4.5 mi incl two longer pick ups and 8xshort hill sprints

    Sat 16
    Rest

    Sun17
    Terenure 5 mile 33:24 (PB) see race report blegh
    T 9.5

    Total for week: 32 or thereabouts
    Breakdown 5 days running incl:
    1 quality session
    1 race prep incl strides
    1 race
    2 easy/rec days


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Only catching up now - well done on the PB. Says a lot about how well you are going when you are disappointed with a race and still PB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Hi Dubgal. Good improvement there, a solid PB. Youll learn from it and that race will help greatly with race endurance in other races.

    A downhill start is far worse than an uphill start IMO. The leg muscles take more of a hammering running down and tougher again if its followed by a gradual hill where you have to use the hammered muscles to climb a bit. What happenned was very easy to happen.

    Pacing is obviously a good idea, but IMO it works best if you have an overall pacing/racing plan for the whole course. The more that's known about the course before the race the better chance of pacing it well.

    To this end, I usually look at course profiles, course videos, street map etc. everything I can get my hands on, in a lot of depth to get a very clear mental picture of the route. Look for where the turns are..where are the uphills and downhills...(even how long will the uphills will take) key landmarks etc.

    You said you felt you didn't have the racing endurance to last the whole race.
    In that case I would suggest estimating what distance you could manage at race pace, and look at the course to see how best to fit that segment in (usually at the end).

    If you felt you could manage 3 miles hard. A good pacing strategy for the Terenure 5 in this example, might be a steady start and only slowly cranking the effort up and holding back until the start of that downhill mile at the 2 mile marker. Then push on/release the beast etc. for a strong paced effort to the line.

    Once you have your pacing strategy sorted, you can then start to visualise your race based on this pacing and the strong mental picture you have of the course and your current ability. Try and picture how the race might transpire with your actual likely rivals in mind. Visualise yourself overcoming any of the things that might go wrong.

    Once you believe in it, it will be very hard for you to abandon your plan at the start. Because you've visualised the right things to do it will make it a lot easier to do them when the pressure is on. Watching the race unfold much as you visualise (as will likely happen) is also very very positive mental feedback and energy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    Only catching up now - well done on the PB. Says a lot about how well you are going when you are disappointed with a race and still PB.
    Thanks TJ :) Had a quick scan of your log earlier, very nice running yourself, well done :) Yeah, the disappointment comes from not racing to what I thought was my full potential due to not pacing it properly at the start. I'll still take the PB tho ;)
    demfad wrote: »
    Hi Dubgal. Good improvement there, a solid PB. Youll learn from it and that race will help greatly with race endurance in other races.

    A downhill start is far worse than an uphill start IMO. The leg muscles take more of a hammering running down and tougher again if its followed by a gradual hill where you have to use the hammered muscles to climb a bit. What happenned was very easy to happen.

    Pacing is obviously a good idea, but IMO it works best if you have an overall pacing/racing plan for the whole course. The more that's known about the course before the race the better chance of pacing it well.

    To this end, I usually look at course profiles, course videos, street map etc. everything I can get my hands on, in a lot of depth to get a very clear mental picture of the route. Look for where the turns are..where are the uphills and downhills...(even how long will the uphills will take) key landmarks etc.

    You said you felt you didn't have the racing endurance to last the whole race.
    In that case I would suggest estimating what distance you could manage at race pace, and look at the course to see how best to fit that segment in (usually at the end).

    If you felt you could manage 3 miles hard. A good pacing strategy for the Terenure 5 in this example, might be a steady start and only slowly cranking the effort up and holding back until the start of that downhill mile at the 2 mile marker. Then push on/release the beast etc. for a strong paced effort to the line.

    Once you have your pacing strategy sorted, you can then start to visualise your race based on this pacing and the strong mental picture you have of the course and your current ability. Try and picture how the race might transpire with your actual likely rivals in mind. Visualise yourself overcoming any of the things that might go wrong.

    Once you believe in it, it will be very hard for you to abandon your plan at the start. Because you've visualised the right things to do it will make it a lot easier to do them when the pressure is on. Watching the race unfold much as you visualise (as will likely happen) is also very very positive mental feedback and energy.

    Thanks demfad, by lacking endurance I meant the endurance to hang on gracefully after a too fast start. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't graceful...
    We jogged the larger loop of the course for a warm up but you are right, thorough knowledge of the course = better race. Something else to pay more attention to/include in race prep.
    I've pretty much made up my mind to continue racing with a stopwatch only and that probably means I'll make mistakes again but hopefully not the 'so painful, racing is out the window' kind until paces are programmed into my inner metronome. I've only been racing nine months so blips are to be expected.
    My next goal race is the WMM so I shall be cycling around that and planting positive thoughts in my central governor for sure ;)
    Thanks again!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    log report w/b 18 May

    Mon 18
    Rest.
    Sports massage. Ouch ouch ouch ouch but worth it...(I actually broke out in a sweat as my itb was ironed out :eek: )

    Tue 19
    5 miles easy.

    Wed 20
    Woke to a text from the club captain asking if I could go to Belfast on Sunday to run the 3k in the National League...sooooo tempted but meself and Himself are off to Italy a few days later (for my warm weather WMM training and taper :D ) and figured that would be too much parental abandonment...

    55 mins easy on road, cliff and grass. Still feel the remnants of Sunday's race. Also not feeling a smooth cadence in my GTs lately. They're a size up (for longer runs) so am thinking I'll get a 'just right size' for regular runs and rotation. My feet also seem to have lost weight in the last year, weird....Any excuse for new shoes :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Ok, don't panic but news reports on a Prosecco shortage. Can't link as on phone.

    Really well done on Sunday and great to see you.

    P.S. as long as feet don't grow you're grand, apparently. Mine went from 4 and can easily now fit 2.5. Enjoy Italy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    Dubgal72 wrote: »

    ... figured that would be too much parental abandonment...

    DG, I admire your dedication, but us DCM novices can be left for a few days - honestly, we'll be fine. And they do have the internet in Italy too..! :rolleyes:

    Oh... hang on..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Thanks demfad, by lacking endurance I meant the endurance to hang on gracefully after a too fast start. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't graceful...
    We jogged the larger loop of the course for a warm up but you are right, thorough knowledge of the course = better race. Something else to pay more attention to/include in race prep.
    I've pretty much made up my mind to continue racing with a stopwatch only and that probably means I'll make mistakes again but hopefully not the 'so painful, racing is out the window' kind until paces are programmed into my inner metronome. I've only been racing nine months so blips are to be expected.
    My next goal race is the WMM so I shall be cycling around that and planting positive thoughts in my central governor for sure ;)
    Thanks again!

    But the odd blip makes the good days all the better. I've let my whole race completely fall apart over fast starts before. You didn't and fought well to hold it together enough to PB. You're clearly getting into great shape. You'll nail the WMM!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    aquinn wrote: »
    Ok, don't panic but news reports on a Prosecco shortage. Can't link as on phone.

    Really well done on Sunday and great to see you.

    P.S. as long as feet don't grow you're grand, apparently. Mine went from 4 and can easily now fit 2.5. Enjoy Italy.
    It's ok, no shortage til August phew :cool: Happy holidays to youuuuuuu!
    nop98 wrote: »
    DG, I admire your dedication, but us DCM novices can be left for a few days - honestly, we'll be fine. And they do have the internet in Italy too..! :rolleyes:

    Oh... hang on..
    Haha I'm abandoning my sproglets but I'll be holding my novices hands N never fear ;)
    demfad wrote: »
    But the odd blip makes the good days all the better. I've let my whole race completely fall apart over fast starts before. You didn't and fought well to hold it together enough to PB. You're clearly getting into great shape. You'll nail the WMM!
    Thanks demfad, it'll be hard enough but I'm taking the pressure off for now. I'll use it in conjunction with dunshaughlin to race and learn :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Thur 21
    Enforced rest...the 2yo banged his head not long before my scheduled 'exit stage left' to the club training session. Tears, wails and lots of clinginess meant there was no way I was out that door. On the plus side, I got some core and strengthening work done outside his bedroom door as I waited for him to drop off.
    This was followed by a quick scrub and polish and out to meet some clubmates for 'celebrating summer' drinks or some other excuse ;)
    I was sensible-ish and remembered to order some water alongside the vino blanco. Bed before one but up at 6 to remind the 2yo that 'yes, it's bright outside but it's actually still the middle of the night....' which didn't bode well for....

    Fri 22
    Planned session was the same pyramid from two weeks ago but I didn't have a clue where the markers were in the far field of the park. The first field, where I would have known where to stop and start, was too busy with dog walkers and young kids off school for the day that's in it... You still have time to go and vote citizens, do the right thing ;)
    So I settled on a Plan B session, 6-8x1k with 2 min rec; target 3:55-4:00 pace.
    Shorter-than-usual warm up included two longer pick ups and 5 drills (time pressure today) but as it was a longer/less speedier session I knew the first two would act as warm up.
    I decided from the get-go to do the full 8 unless it went really pear-shaped due to lack of sleep and possible dehydration :o

    The first felt really controlled and I had my fingers crossed that I had set my inner metronome to the right setting. Bingo, 3:57!
    The next two followed similar, I hit the same cadence and pace, controlled effort for 3:55 and 3:56.
    The next one strangely came in at 3:51 and that threw me because from then on it became more difficult to marry:

    Pace + effort to produce consistency

    which was the aim of the session with the WMM 10k on the horizon

    So I reigned the next one in but also lost concentration to come in at 3:58. The sixth came in again at 3:51 where some wand waving was required. It went along the lines of 'three more??! How??' As did the seventh...
    The wand waving was magic today, worked like a dream. Friends, Romans and Irish Runners, if you're not using it...do! The down side is that you have to be working so hard it's hurting but the up side is....it works, really works!
    Each rep was incrementally harder but manageably so until the fifth when it started to hurt physically and mentally. I had a little conversation with myself where I tried out a 'what if you called it six instead of eight today' but the judge's verdict was that there was not present 'sufficient cause', indeed that it would certainly be categorised as 'slacking' compunded by 'wimping out'.

    The sixth, seventh and eighth saw me working to keep the effort up and maintain the cadence I started with. I sort of knew they were getting faster as I warmed into it so I was trying to balance that too :eek: ... Or was I just over thinking it?!

    These came in 3:51, 3:51 and 3:43.xx but we'll call it 3:44 ;)

    Overall very pleased with this session. It's a long way from last August when it killed me to do 2x1k at 3:57 and 3:58 pace with a full five minutes recovery.
    It's a good confidence builder too ahead of the 10k in 10 days, my confidence took a bit of a knock after the pacing debacle last Sunday. It's still not perfect...I would have been more pleased to see more consistent paces throughout today's session but it's a start :)
    3:57
    3:55
    3:56
    3:51
    3:58
    3:51
    3:51
    3:44

    Short warm down but did some stretching and a couple of myrtle moves from memory which made all the difference to my aching limbs.

    T. 9 miles or thereabouts.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,136 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I think you've used up your yearly limit for use of the word peeps in your log. Good session, but if your'e capable of 3:45-3:50....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    adrian522 wrote: »
    I think you've used up your yearly limit for use of the word peeps in your log. Good session, but if your'e capable of 3:45-3:50....

    See my edit ;):p

    I still think 8 reps at 3:55-59 would have been better. I really wanted to programme that pace into my legs.... Although they do read like an ideal/dream race progression :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    let me get this straight, you're not happy because 4 of the LAST 5 were a few seconds faster than your target... ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    annapr wrote: »
    let me get this straight, you're not happy because 4 of the LAST 5 were a few seconds faster than your target... ?

    Haha ok when you put it like that.... :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Sat 23
    Rest, some core and strengthening

    Sun 24

    8am (get me) lsr on empty

    Met with a clubmate 1 mile in and then another at 3 miles to run on grass for 5-6 miles. This was lovely, a nice relaxed pace, the good chat and mild morning meant the miles flew by. I felt nicely recovered from Friday too. No idea of pace, my clubmate called out 11.5 miles as we parted ways so I'll take that :)

    Stretching and Myrtl post run. This Myrtl method is the business on tired legs, check it out.

    Total for week: 31 miles (quality over quantity time of year ;) )
    4 days running on road, trail, Tarmac and grass:
    2 easy/recovery
    1 session
    1 lsr

    Core, strength and mobility...getting back into it :cool:
    Log backlog #50-something :eek:

    Feeling strong and fresh this week, all good :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    log report w/b Mon 25 May

    Mon 25
    Rest, some core and strengthening

    Tue 26
    Tune up 400s (and also general purpose for post-WMM 1500 specific training)
    6x400 with 2 min cont jog rec across the diagonal (ouch)

    2.5mi w/u incl 4x100m strides + 6-7 drills (drills before strides today)

    These were done on tarmac in the local park...on my own :( today: two lengths of the field so the wind was in my face for the last 200 of each. (Muggins never thought of doing every second one in reverse :rolleyes: :o )
    Effort was high today, I hit the first three in 82-85 and then turned the stopwatch off, keeping the same cadence and a bit more effort on each one: the shorter recovery took its toll.

    .75mi w/d

    T: 5.5

    Had to employ some wand waving today...after the morning's session as I lay on my beauty therapist's bed in preparation for the Italian sojourn. Ladies (and gentlemen as we are all equal now ;) ), wand waving does not work for waxing. Does. Not. Work. And boy did I try. Give me a full-on sports massage any day of the week :eek:

    So off for my warm weather taper tomorrow in balmy Umbria. Pool hydration baths, prosecco at dawn hydration breakfasts, dancing till dawn gentle jogging, hungover sprint to the plane some strides...and WMM here I come BH Monday :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭career move


    Have a good holiday :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Have a good holiday :)

    +1 you waxing wimp :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Wand waving may not work but two painkillers pre wax well that works perfectly :-) enjoy your break!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Have a good holiday :)
    Thanks :)
    annapr wrote: »
    +1 you waxing wimp :D
    :o Aunty Flo also came to visit, she doesn't tolerate pain very well does she?!
    Firedance wrote: »
    Wand waving may not work but two painkillers pre wax well that works perfectly :-) enjoy your break!

    Yeah, remembering to take them would have worked a treat. Two strips in I remembered that I had forgotten :rolleyes: :D
    And thanks, I will try... ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭hillsiderunner


    Have a great holiday DG and stay off that Novices thread, we'll all survive the 5 days ok ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Bungy Girl


    Buone Vacanze!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Enjoy the hols!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Sitting in Ciampino airport just outside Rome looking out at a cloudless blue sky so thought I may as well update the old log.

    Wed 27
    Rest, ran out of time packing :o
    Carting multiple pieces of luggage = core?

    Thur 28
    The morning of the wedding....the bride and groom are serious addicts dedicated runners so a group of 15 of us met at 8am for a leisurely 5k around some rural Umbrian lanes. Jogged back to the villa after for a total of 8k easy running

    Fri 29
    Serious, serious over-indulgence from the day before necessitated a day of lying by the pool. Round 2, a barbecue that evening guilted me into heading out at 2:30 for an easy 6k UP the hill to the Castello then doooooown again :D This was tough, the heavy air and various toxins in my system (mostly Prosecco) made me feel like I had smoked 20 fags the previous night (there was a whiskey bar and cigars but I'm pretty sure I was not chomping on a cigar at any stage......)

    Sat 30
    Rest (much needed :) )

    Sunday, plan to do an easy four miles and strides.

    Or not, I may stay here, in the airport. I love Italy :D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Bungy Girl


    Best of luck for tomorrow DG! If I can dig out my oilskins , sou'wester and over the knee wellies I'll be out cheering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Best of luck tomorrow DG, hope all goes well for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Best wishes tomorrow :)


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,136 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Best of luck tomorrow, hope the weather God's are kind and your warm weather training pays off!


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