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Target Practice
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ThebitterLemon wrote: »Ah Tang's not the worst, he could do something about the calluses on his hands though
TbL
I had that coming in fairness. But i'll be the BIGGER man and not sully DG's log with anymore smut. To quote Liam Neeson Lemon "I will get you".0 -
Hi Mulberry, your question had me tottering back to splitcalc.com to double check my paces!
My PB, set in April, is 19:29 but November saw me run two parkruns at just outside 20 mins (6:26/mi or 3:13 per 800 pace) so for current form, this range was pretty spot on, even on the conservative side. If my foot hadn't complained and I wasn't killing myself, I would have kept them nearer 3:10 pace.
I've always had an 'empty the tank' mentality when it comes to key training sessions, at least towards the end of the session anyway. I'm sloooooowly coming round to a 'less is more' approach but it's damn hard. However, probably very necessary as a master athlete.
I've made a bargain with myself: ease off on most sessions/do them at prescribed paces (no choice but at the moment with PF) and make it up in the gym. Working so far...., the bargaining anyway, bit early to reap the reward yet.
I know what's happened. I read 'session at 5K pace', saw 3:10, assumed that was mins/KM, threw it into my calculator and got a 5K time of 17 odd minutes. But 3:10 is your time for 800 - not your pace! Of course. Doh.
Still though, I'm glad it came up, as I'd be very interested to see who sticks to pace and who doesn't. I might throw it up as a thread on the main forum.
I was amazed to think you would race those sessions Dubgal - I should have known better!0 -
What about a jog around Marley park followed by coffee in the farmers market? Reasonably flat & a chance for a catch upSounds like a plan! Sometime next week is grand. I plan to palm my kids off on their father on a regular basis
Ps sorry for late reply....
Happy Christmas, hope dinners and celebrations were great.
Best present for me was a cold that lasted a normal number of days, and not followed by weeks of violent coughing. Am very grateful
Will be offline for a good bit of 2moro so sending now ...can do various times over the next while; at the moment, looks as though Monday (morn or afternoon) is ok, also Tuesday afternoon is good, or Wednesday (morn or afternoon). Morning of Thurs/31st looks fine ... and the morning of the 1st might be fine for me but maybe no one else.
There will be no Marley market during the weekdays I don't think. None tomorrow either (checked this out because I am walking the start of the WW). Am happy to travel further afield to suit BG and/or Northsiders, eg the PP.
Anyway will leave it there to see if anything suits. Promise I won't sulk if it's not a runner.*
If I'm honest I saw the discussion of Cabinteely organisings for today and it crossed my mind that might be the easiest arrangement, but no buses this am (and I was feeling a bit lazy ...)0 -
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hillsiderunner wrote: »Then I'll wait to see what suits for DG and FD for Wed or Thurs. Fingers crossed your OH won't think of anything he needs to do.
Just noticed that the Bolands cafe in Marlay will be open this week, so all's not lost for post-run coffee.
For FD and DG, it would genuinely have been tough to get to Cabinteely yesterday as the only car-owner here is elderly and has been rolling the eyes at the idea of any running in the days after a cold. So was not being flippant about the possibility (though ...also feeling lazy over the past couple of days it must be said :rolleyes: )
Christmas was good here but quieter than usual (so runs got done )
Hope christmas was good for all of you and that Santa fixed DGs plantar ...
I'm racing on Friday so all sloooowwww easy runs this week, I would be very happy to appear for a post run coffee though or trail along way behind you all for jog wasn't planning to run Thursday so if that's the day I will just arrive for the coffee 
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Hehe breaking out in a sweat just thinking of that pace for 5k!! :eek:I know what's happened. I read 'session at 5K pace', saw 3:10, assumed that was mins/KM, threw it into my calculator and got a 5K time of 17 odd minutes. But 3:10 is your time for 800 - not your pace! Of course. Doh.
Still though, I'm glad it came up, as I'd be very interested to see who sticks to pace and who doesn't. I might throw it up as a thread on the main forum.
I was amazed to think you would race those sessions Dubgal - I should have known better!hillsiderunner wrote: »Happy Christmas, hope dinners and celebrations were great.
Best present for me was a cold that lasted a normal number of days, and not followed by weeks of violent coughing. Am very grateful
Will be offline for a good bit of 2moro so sending now ...can do various times over the next while; at the moment, looks as though Monday (morn or afternoon) is ok, also Tuesday afternoon is good, or Wednesday (morn or afternoon). Morning of Thurs/31st looks fine ... and the morning of the 1st might be fine for me but maybe no one else.
There will be no Marley market during the weekdays I don't think. None tomorrow either (checked this out because I am walking the start of the WW). Am happy to travel further afield to suit BG and/or Northsiders, eg the PP.
Anyway will leave it there to see if anything suits. Promise I won't sulk if it's not a runner.*
If I'm honest I saw the discussion of Cabinteely organisings for today and it crossed my mind that might be the easiest arrangement, but no buses this am (and I was feeling a bit lazy ...)I'm racing on Friday so all sloooowwww easy runs this week, I would be very happy to appear for a post run coffee though or trail along way behind you all for jog wasn't planning to run Thursday so if that's the day I will just arrive for the coffee
Yikes this is what I get for not popping in to my log!! Sorry! I migt be able to do something very easy after seeing Myles tomorrow afternoon. Otherwise Wednesday morning might work but am trying to get an appt to see osteo...what's the general consensus? Would a gentle jog around cabinteely work? I'll be in walkinstown for 12:30-1:30 so am pretty central for travel....0 -
IMO most boardsies and recreational runners will attain a greater relative improvement in race pace over a training block than an elite would. This is because the other non-specific training and the general training volume keeps improving the runner's fitness. (Dubgal is no recreational runner BTW this is just a general point). In other words there will be a bigger difference in relative race pace for a recreational runner before/after the training block than elite runners.
When elite runners start their specific training they are already fast enough to run at their goal 5k pace (the pace feels like 5k pace). The training sessions are now tailored to train them to extend their ability to hold that pace for, well, 5k. They can do this by adding reps, volume of each rep, reducing rests etc. The pace will be goal race-day pace, the focus is simply on extending endurance at this pace.
On the other hand the faster improving recreational runner's actual race pace should keep improving even through the specific stage . IMO for recreational runners the 5k focused sessions are best run by feel, and in similar conditions, there should be an improvement in pace as well as the specific endurance. If the recreational runner runs the early sessions at final 5k pace the effort is going to be too hard, and they wont get the desired endurance and adaptions, at least not for 5k racing.
Again probably not relevant for you Dubgal (sorry for lenghty post), just a general point.
Thanks demfad and apologies for the late reply (xmas, etc :rolleyes: ). This all makes sense and I was wondering where I'd slot myself into this until I came to the 'by feel' bit I'd extend this to my stage of development too for some training purposes. 0 -
Yikes this is what I get for not popping in to my log!! Sorry! I migt be able to do something very easy after seeing Myles tomorrow afternoon. Otherwise Wednesday morning might work but am trying to get an appt to see osteo...what's the general consensus? Would a gentle jog around cabinteely work? I'll be in walkinstown for 12:30-1:30 so am pretty central for travel....
Could go with Tues pm or Wed am, but would need to know fairly soon 'cos I'll probably do a Dundalk jaunt with the other day. Sure we'll wait till the Fat Turkey is raced, to hear back from FD and BG.
Walkinstown is convenient for me but maybe not everyone. Cabinteely or Marlay also grand.
Good luck with the appts
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Running week beg Mon 21st
Mon ?
Tue 7 total
got session done (2x2 miles at 10 mile pace with 1 min rec)
Did these on grass which was a slog because of going underfoot, very wet and slippy. Went by effort + time (2x14 mins).foot grand but.....
Wed 2.5 easy miles. Knee quite sore, eased out somewhat but sorest it's been
Thur half mile hobble. Knee too sore, gave up
Fri rest
Sat rest
Sun 80 mins easy (should have been 60-70 mins). Pushing it really but misjudged my turn back point. Knee started to tighten up at 60 mins and sharply at 80 mins so walked the rest of the way home. Plenty of icing throughout day and stretching after. Not great, v demoralising and frustrating but MS is going to spare no whimpers on Tuesday.
Mon
Got up at stupid o'clock - real stupid o'clock - to haul my ass to local pool for aqua run followed by gym routine. The very good reason for this insanity was so I could get to the Dark Northside for 11:30 where annapr, aquinn and BG will be strutting their stuff up and down Howth chasing turkeys or something like that. Anyway, there will be alcohol after so it was a case of stupid o'clock or nothing.
....aaaand the pool was shut. This, despite having 7am on their website last night, grrr (ok ok it also said may be subject to change or something like that but rrrrreeeally.....)
So I walked and jogged back to mine, warmed up with a coffee and launched into a substitute Myrtl, DS core and modified gym routine followed by stretching.
Jogging and walking to the gym eased my foot and knee out nicely although both tender enough. The first squat was a bit ouchy but the rest were fine. Really really crossing my fingers that this is just muscle tightness causing the knee cap to go off track a bit.
Training has been interrupted and curtailed now since mid-November and it's getting close to the point where I take a complete break from running in order to heal and rebuild properly. I have all sorts of thoughts going on in my head: have I built too quickly, putting a strain on my biomechanics; are my biomechanics my weak point...flat feet have never given me a graceful stride; why haven't I committed to the bloody gymwork more consistently and earlier etc etc
Anyway, no pressure Myles
I suppose this is a good time to round off the year. My goals at the start of the log were
For 2015 my targets are:
5k sub 20 mins (Current 21:38)
10k as near to 40 mins as I can (None official)
10 miles as far below 75 as I can (Current 78:04)
HM 1:35. (Current 1:41:08)
Would also like a crack at the track, 800m, 1500m and 3000m for old time's sake.
All advice and suggestions very welcome, thanks in advance. Nagging 'have you done your core exercises this week??' especially welcome!
I achieved all of the above, PBs now stand at
800m 2:45 (in 1500m race )
1500m 5:11:xx
3k 11:2x (?)
5k 19:29
10k 41:5x
10mile 69:28
HM 1:33:34
I - bravely - revised the original targets in early Feb for:As a benchmark, it has given me something to work towards....
Some revised goals (writing them here makes them real...)
For 20142015
10k: sub 40
5mile: 30:xx
5k: 18:5x
3k: 10:30
1500: 4:5x
High? Yes. But this is why I aim higher than the moon...on the way back down I might land on a star....
Not achieved so I'll extend them to 2016. However, this year times are secondary and these babies are the main targets:
So for 2016:
I'd like to win a national medal. The targets so far for this are:
1) national masters xc where a team medal is an outside possibility
2) national masters road relays in April. We finished fourth last year with a cobbled-together team so hopefully this year we can move up a position or more
3) the main thing will be track this year and 1500m the focus in the national masters. It was won in 4:56 (I think) in 2015 so I'll be aiming to bring my current 5:11 time down to 4:50 or so. This involves more longer-term planning, which actually started in September and will build more carefully this year towards August 2016.
After that, a place on the Irish team for the Masters International in November would be sweeeet and along the way, I'll be aiming to fill in as many places as poss on the Main Thing Round Numbers table.
All the best to everyone for 2016. May you run long and run strong. Thanks for helping make my running year extremely satisfying 0 -
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Thanks! Knee has calmed down already after Myles' magic handsNice to see you again today. Hope the knee calms down and best of luck with the 2016 targets! :-) Just got to do my bit now...stretch, build...and foam roll :rolleyes:
Well done on a fine year, very envious at those pbs!!...and thanks again for all your help achieving my goal!
Thanks diego and you are very welcome. It was my pleasure. All the best to you for 20160 -
Mon 28th
Warm up jog/walk followed by 1hr + Myrtl, DS core and modified gym routine
Tue
Rest. Physio/tissue massage with MS. Loosened hip flexor and quad out = free knee Magic Myles' Massage
Have to keep on top of stretching hip flexor first thing in the morning and after running...and foam roll regularly.
Wed
Pain free going down stairs, yay.
6 miles or so:
30 mins w/up incl strides and drills.
4x400m with 400 jog back recovery. Picked my stretch of road with wind in back This session was more for shaking the legs out in advance of Sunday's county masters.
(This was modified from yesterday's 6x400m.)
1 mile w/d
So good to run pain free. Plenty of stretching at home and chilled bucket for foot. No knee flare up but foot flared up pretty badly and resorted to 2 ibuprofen later in the evening.
Thur
Pool with strides and gym...except it was closed AGAIN despite stating it would be open. So frustrating. Can't risk running on my foot two days in a row. I could have chanced grass but there was too much chance that uneven and slippy going would aggravate my knee. Argh. Feel like it's approaching one step forward, two back....
Plan for the week:
Fri
Easy with strides
Sat
Easy 2/3
Sun race
Am a bit ambivalent about my chances Sunday. I reckon I was minus 1-2% below ideal fitness for the county seniors but had the advantage of freshness. At least that's what I told myself. Now I feel I am >5% below ideal fitness. The only positive is that the shorter distance (4k) suits me better. Anyway, Sunday is mainly about the team, we're going for gold
If I can manage the PF successfully and keep the kneecap/quad from tightening up over the next two weeks, I should be able to approach ideal fitness levels for the 24th (national masters). I had thrown out a top 20 finish as the aim for this but looking at previous years results, top 30 is more achievable. We'll see...
Little addition to my previous NY wishes for y'all: KEEP ON TOP OF THE STRETCHING
Happy New Year 0 -
Happy New Year DG, wishing you mucho mucho success and many podium finishes at XC and other races throughout the year You've been an amazing coach and advisor during the year and I can't thank you enough for getting me over the finish line at DCM
Looking forward to keeping up with your dedicated training and watching you smash those PBs 0 -
Happy New Year DG, wishing you mucho mucho success and many podium finishes at XC and other races throughout the year You've been an amazing coach and advisor during the year and I can't thank you enough for getting me over the finish line at DCM
Looking forward to keeping up with your dedicated training and watching you smash those PBs
Ah thanks Neady! What a lovely start to the year! You're very welcome and looking forward to seeing your progress this year...(Hint, it's going to be grrrrreat ). 0 -
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As you will read below, I was a bit unwilling going into this. Mainly because I have had interrupted training since mid-November and had started to believe that this 'must' have begun to take its toll and then, to top it all, I succumbed to the sproggies' chest cough too this week. Nevertheless, unless I was physically unable to walk, I was going to do this because we have a good team.
THE MORNING BIT
This morning I heard torrential rain outside. I didn't even need to look. I hoped for a text to say the event had been called off. A twinge in my heel (the normal morning stiffness) had me telling myself 'you could use that, don't run'...
General chat in the car revealed we had all had similar thoughts. S sat at her kitchen table and sighed to her seven year old son 'I really don't want to do this today' to which he solicitously replied 'but do you HAVE to mum?' Her reply encapsulated all that is right about running: 'well no, but it's a team thing....'
THE COURSE BIT
We had seen an overview of the course and it looked stinky. So it was. Lots of technical switch backs, tussocky and sucky underfoot, compounded by big hoof marks courtesy of the organic Aberdeen Angus herd who had been evicted from their usual residence today. The usual clatter across a gravel path and exit onto an unavoidable small lake of mud and ankle deep water. Etc. And a hill... On the plus side, we actually saw blue sky and there was no noticeable wind.
THE XX XC COMPOSITION
It was a small enough field, 20-25 maybe and all the usual suspects with the addition of a strong Ashford athlete and CC, last year's winner. CC is making a slow and steady recovery from long term injury but made a very good showing until she sensibly listened to the throbbing of her body and decided to call it a day. I didn't realise this til the finish, up til then, she had me on the run
THE WARM UP
On the warm up, I mentioned to S that my legs felt like heavy jelly and we optimistically decided that it was pre-race nerves and not my cold. I really crossed my fingers and everything else it was this . Heavy legs on this course would not be pretty. Usual warm up, 3.5k or so, strides and a few drills. Had done dynamic stretching specifically for my hip flexor this morning so followed that up with a bit more and some drills plus general limbering arm swings etc.
THE THING
Off we went and immediately I had negative thoughts going up the first 100m. I wasn't feeling the love and found myself in a strung out fifth at quite a nifty pace. Ah well, I told myself, fifth won't be so bad, you've got 'excuses'. I could shake myself for even writing that. I realised that I had probably been overstriding for the type of course and reminded myself all the way around from then to chop my stride and relax. The inclining zig zags were in the second field (two laps of three fields/sections) and I found myself in a bit of a cat and mouse here with my old rival A, trying to get ahead of her so as not to lose too much contact with the leading three, still strung out more than grouped. Fartlek rocks and paid off here cos I shook her off and started to reel 4th in. No idea when I passed her, beginning of second lap I think. I remember thinking 'if you pass, you have to pass decisively' and I did, reasonably. If she had challenged me, she would have won, I was hurting.
So that left S and AM. AM, like in the senior county, had run strong from the front again. They had a good bit on me, not sure how much, 80 and 40m maybe? S started to reel her in and here's the good bit neither pulled away too much on the second lap of zig zags despite a stumble of mine on one of the flag poles which knocked me for a minute.
It's all very blurry but today I think I conquered the internal mental demons. I had a few mantras and inner dialogue to combat the voices saying, 'ah settle for fourth, ok third now, you're clear enough, that'll do....'
Approaching the summit of the last hill, my quads were burning and generally just jelly like. I remember thinking 'your mental bite is gone, you've gone back to being namby-pamby'. I tried to stride out and nearly came a cropper at the bottom across the path and mini mud lake. AM, now in second, wasn't pulling away but neither was I gaining with about 400m to go. I nearly settled but decided to kick. I borrowed S's mantra and remembered some analysis from coachy. I also repeated my special race mantra (the first part is state secret but the second ends with 'it's all about the team') and remembered our club captain's gentle joshing that every place counts....Slowly she started to come back and I really didn't want to but I kept digging until at the final turn with 100m to go, I opened that reserve tank and dug in possibly the deepest I have ever dug to run wide around the bend and take second place. And team gold. Totally buzzing. Racecraft - mental and physical - is starting to wrap together nicely.
A very positive start to 2016. I'm probably proudest of this race
THE XY BIT
The men did really well too, KC taking an amazing silver too in what I imagine was the total antithesis to his beloved road conditions, Abhainn was 4th overall and BeepBeep 6th and first in auld aul fellas cat Did you guys get team gold too? Again, XC, especially this type of XC, from what I understand from Kc's previous grumblings is not what he would choose for a Sunday morning run but hey....you got some pretty ribbons and metals today
THE PLAN AHEAD
The plan was to take a break after this and get the body whole before embarking on track training. Today's results however have encouraged coachy to maybe consider a plan that will take me to the nationals on the 24th, because again, with Sli Cualann, we have a really good team this year. It all depends on how the foot and knee bear up this week and that really depends on me. Manage, manage manage. Stretch, ice and rinse and repeat.
AND THE REST....
There is a very real and concrete benefit to publicly celebrating the achievements of all levels of runners, especially in a club setting. J, one of our older athletes and new to competitive running, is in the 22-25 minute bracket for 5k but has been the lynchpin in our club's success in cross country this season. Last month, in her second XC race, J anchored us to senior county silver team medal and today, gold county master level. However, we also had the safety net of two other club members today, A&E. Our Accident and Emergency fall backs if you like I raise my (symbolic, it's only 1pm ) glass to their achievements and continued team support. There is no 'dilution' as a result of their participation, rather our chemical composition is stronger. I'm not hiding their achievements away on any back page. They ran today in sticky, horrible, true XC conditions. And got team gold for their efforts. Everybody, scorers and non-scorers, on our teams get a medal. Suck that one up, naysayers. And a good snotty slap on the back post-race. Would they turn up to these events if their efforts and achievements went unacknowledged? You'd have to ask them..
I cannot praise the concept of team highly enough. The tangible, physical benefits are there, sure. The intangible, mental benefits are huge. Running is well and good. Training is well and good. If you haven't got the mental package, you may as well go home. Team bolsters the mental delivery and while we probably would have gone and run today anyway, the concept of 'team' shores up mental resolve and brings you closer to 'can' and further away from 'can't'.
We should encourage team participation at all levels. Running has become a very individual sport. 'Me against the clock'. I would like to see more 'catching the wo/man ahead, every place counts'. Perhaps we can get something like that going here? Cross country training and racing makes the strongest road and track runners. Team spirit and camaraderie is a very significant part of that physical and mental strength.
Mol and óige agus tiocfaidh siad. 'Praise our young and they will progress'. Many of us are 'the óige' of boards. No harm in a bit of praise and encouragement now and then. You can't spoil a child with love. Children become very adept at differentiating between the unconditional and sometimes undiscerning praise of a parent compared with, for example, the more objective analysis of peers and teachers. I'd like to think adults are the same and if 'back slapperish' praise is offered here, the recipient can acknowledge graciously and move on while absorbing the more valuable and considered advice offered.
Our club captain posts race results with a brief overview on our website. He does not give preference to 'the winners'. He will evaluate each performance in terms of its 'real money' achievement relative to the athlete. This is good and this is as it should be. After all, what are we all in terms of running in the greater scheme of things? Small fry, that's what. But damned good small fry.0 -
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Thanks diego! Wow that sounds like a fantastic thing to be a part of. I look forward to reading all about your training this year and can't wait to read the report of the Run the RingWhat a race and what a read, loved it. Big well done there!!
Some fine mental coaching there to give yourself that last push, amazing that on a day where you may not have been feeling it 100 percent that knowing you are out there for more than yourself as part of a team event gave you a final push that may not ordinarily be there.
Agree on the idea of team, my own club are trying to organize a group for doing the inaugural Run the Ring, dawn to dusk challenge in June down here in Kerry. You have to have 10 on your team, can be mixed teams as well which is where I think our club could do well. Each person has to run a minimum 10K. Really hoping we can get a team in and I'd love to be part of it. 114miles in 15 hours as part of a team starting at 5:21am in Waterville and to be back there before 10:02pm that same day sounds epic to me. 0 -
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