Julien Blanc gets destroyed in CNN interview

Grayson

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

It's okay to be critical of stuff and acknowledge the negatives of something. Convincing yourself that it has no flaws is delusional.

There have been people in this thread and others who have stated outright or strongly implied that any guy who ever looks at this stuff is a sad, pathetic bastard who has rapey tendencies.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

My problem with this is that these PUA gurus are repackaging advice that is already available and making money off it.

so you'be be ok if guys bought self help books that had been around for a generation? To be fair, if you look at any self help section, you'll find recycled garbage. And any person who helps people like psychologists, doctors etc are going to charge. Noone invests that much time for free.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

My other criticism, like I mentioned before, is that guys looking for relationships (NOT ONSs) believe PUA is the answer but I don't believe it's sustainable.

PUA isn't sustainable. It's not meant to be. It's supposed to generate an opening (no pun) and let the guy be himself. It's not like Barney Stinson running a play where he pretends to be a billionaire.

RDM_83 again

tritium wrote: »

For what its worth, people have been making money out if deceit in attraction for centuries. The idea of modifying or changing yourself both physically and personality wise is as old as the hills. Deportmen classes were once all the rage for women. Women's and men's mags discuss what the other gender want as a way to be successful with them.

I don't know if the majority of it is really as bad as some people portray but to me the part I find interesting and a bit disturbing about the entire thing is the use of behavioural science.
I think this is partially why people might really buy into the thing because it does seem to be based on "fact". I find the idea of a mechanistic reduction of human interactions and social ques as something thats not exactly a thing to be happy at being popularised imagine a world full of Car Salesmen, its not just PUA the whole AMOG thing feeds of the same theories.

TheBeardedLady

There have been people in this thread and others who have stated outright or strongly implied that any guy who ever looks at this stuff is a sad, pathetic bastard who has rapey tendencies.

I haven't so you'll have to take it up with them.

so you'be be ok if guys bought self help books that had been around for a generation? To be fair, if you look at any self help section, you'll find recycled garbage. And any person who helps people like psychologists, doctors etc are going to charge. Noone invests that much time for free.

I believe many PUA gurus go beyond that though.

PUA isn't sustainable. It's not meant to be. It's supposed to generate an opening (no pun) and let the guy be himself. It's not like Barney Stinson running a play where he pretends to be a billionaire.

A re-reg this morning (I don't know if his post was deleted or not) claimed PUA techniques will change you as a person. That's the issue: people believing it IS sustainable.

TheBeardedLady

tritium wrote: »

Is that any different though than charging someone for a sales course or a programming course or any other skill? .

You tell me. You don't see a difference? One is selling computer skills and one is selling men the idea that they can be funnier or more interesting - you're playing with people's emotions and in turn, you're getting into murky territory.

I'm studying psychology (only a few months now) but the importance of the code of ethics and conduct for psychologists has been hammered home repeatedly. I'm conducting a harmless experiment on people at the moment for an assignment but I had to read up on ethics and get my idea signed off by my university before I conducted it. I spent 2 weeks sending my proposal to my lecturer before she finally approved it and I had to make massive changes to my original idea before I could begin. All the participants have to sign forms which clearly state their rights in the experiment as well as info on where they can get assistance if they've been psychology traumatised in some way by the study...and I'm only 2 months into a certificate. It was frustrating but I understand why she did it. Psychologists HAVE to conduct themselves ethically in everything they do because they're dealing with people in a more complexed way than simply selling them computer skills. Same as these PUA guys.

Do you believe these PUA gurus take a code of ethics so seriously?

Potatoeman

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yep and that was my point. They're not saying anything new but are passing it off as ground-breaking and charging many people for the privilege. I mean,





Eh....I've read that millions of times elsewhere from non PUA sources and like Foxtrol, I recognise it from my own interactions with men. I've read hundreds of articles on the above. I understand these fellas make it into consumable, easy-to-understand, "sexy" less academic form but they're taking people for fools making them believe they're letting them in on some secret when that info is already available.

In fairness every diet course is the same if not worse. They could all be replaced with eat less, eat healthier food and excercise more.

TheBeardedLady

Potatoeman wrote: »

In fairness every diet course is the same if not worse. They could all be replaced with eat less, eat healthier food and excercise more.

Yep because diet courses are also playing with people's emotions and insecurities. Not a fan.

Greenmachine

This rubbish still going on?

Potatoeman

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yep because diet courses are also playing with people's emotions and insecurities. Not a fan.

Yes but calling for a code of ethics is not going to happen. Sales people use phycology too. Its really up to people to educate themselves.

kjl

I don't see all the hate for the PUA guides. 99.999% of the guys who try is have spend very little money learning the technique and if it gives unconfident guys the confidence to start actually talking to girls.

Every girl I know find it annoying that guys don't come up to them in a night club, this teaches guys to take a chance. So whats the harm.

The guy at the start is a bit of a knob but I did watch him on a proper video (about 60 long) once and not once did he say anything about physical abuse.

This is just CNN being CNN and if the OP is so dumb to realise that CNN is a ratings based news network and not a real news network the maybe we should close the thread now. Sure one time I saw them use a psychic to see if the knew where malaysia airlines flight 370 was.

Total rubbish.

The_Captain

kjl wrote: »

I don't see all the hate for the PUA guides. 99.999% of the guys who try is have spend very little money learning the technique and if it gives unconfident guys the confidence to start actually talking to girls.

Every girl I know find it annoying that guys don't come up to them in a night club, this teaches guys to take a chance. So whats the harm.

The guy at the start is a bit of a knob but I did watch him on a proper video (about 60 long) once and not once did he say anything about physical abuse.

This is just CNN being CNN and if the OP is so dumb to realise that CNN is a ratings based news network and not a real news network the maybe we should close the thread now. Sure one time I saw them use a psychic to see if the knew where malaysia airlines flight 370 was.

Total rubbish.

He's only on CNN because he's become e-famous for choking women and trying to force their heads into his crotch you fool

eviltwin

He is due to bring his seminar to Dublin on June 4th next. Would anyone go?

Tiddlypeeps

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I don't think you get make up: women aren't trying to look like they're not wearing make up, they're trying to excentuate features and make it look like it's put on well and that it's professional-looking and not clownish-looking. Lipstick, no matter much you spend on it or how well it's put on, won't look natural (although the more expensive one might look better). Eyeliner will never look natural (nobody has a dark, black line naturally over their eyelid). Mascara will never look natural (people's eyelashes don't look like that naturally). Eyeshadow will never look natural (nobody has blue eyelids, for example). Foundation, even a thin layer, will still be visible - women's skin is not poreless.

When women cake it on, they don't do it because they don't know how to put it on properly (although sometimes they can't) or because they bought cheap make up (I doubt Katy Perry uses Rimmel) or by accident or because they believed they've done a good job making it look natural and no one will notice, they do it because they like the made up look and they feel good with it on and many men like it too, believe it or not. Today I'm wearing a bit of mascara but I have naturally blonde hair and my mascara is black, so it's obvious this is not the colour of my eyelashes. Their texture and shape is different too. I've very little on but it's obvious I'm wearing it. I'm not trying to make people believe I have long, black eyelashes and blonde hair naturally, I just want to have eyelashes that are visible.

Although many men might not know the extremes the woman has gone to to look the way she does, I don't believe there's any deception there as you can see it, no matter how little (you'll obviously have to look a little closer in that case). And I'd also wager that on a night out, 95% of women in bars and clubs are wearing it and I'm sure most men know that.

I have to call you out on this because you are very wrong. YOU might not be trying to look like you aren't wearing any make up but you cannot speak on behalf of all women.

Make up is a hobby of mine so I'm pretty familiar with it and what lots of people are trying to achieve when they wear it.

The no make up look is a very sought after look. You might think it's always obvious when someone is wearing make up, but only the obvious examples are obvious. If someone is wearing proper "no makeup" makeup you won't really have anyway of knowing, not without outright asking or getting in for a very close look and even then when it's done right you still won't see it.

Here is a good example:
http://www.beautygold.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/No-makeup-look-3.jpg

Also a funny relevant web comic:
http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/makeup-no-makeup.png

Even when trying to look done up the goal is often to make it look as natural as possible. So you might have 20 products on your face, but a person looking at you might think you are only wearing a bit of eyeshadow, mascara and some lipstick.

I'm not making the argument that make up is deceitful. But it seems to be a perfectly fine and valid comparison to some of the less extreme PUA stuff.

J Mysterio

eviltwin wrote: »

He is due to bring his seminar to Dublin on June 4th next. Would anyone go?

Post a link in the misogyny thread

Grayson

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I believe many PUA gurus go beyond that though.

believe whatever you want. On the internet it doesn't count unless you have a link to back it up. Besides i don't see how it's possible to go further than that.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

A re-reg this morning (I don't know if his post was deleted or not) claimed PUA techniques will change you as a person. That's the issue: people believing it IS sustainable.

If you approach 50 women and learn to deal with rejection, that's a permanent change. But You're implying that if someone puts what they learned from PUA into action, they'll not be able to keep up a facade, you're right. However they don't have to. It's about creating an opening where you can actually show yourself off. It's not about pretending to be someone else.

Minjor

He's been denied a UK visa according to the BBC.

TheBeardedLady

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I have to call you out on this because you are very wrong. YOU might not be trying to look like you aren't wearing any make up but you cannot speak on behalf of all women.

Make up is a hobby of mine so I'm pretty familiar with it and what lots of people are trying to achieve when they wear it.

The no make up look is a very sought after look. You might think it's always obvious when someone is wearing make up, but only the obvious examples are obvious. If someone is wearing proper "no makeup" makeup you won't really have anyway of knowing, not without outright asking or getting in for a very close look and even then when it's done right you still won't see it.

Here is a good example:
http://www.beautygold.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/No-makeup-look-3.jpg

Also a funny relevant web comic:
http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/makeup-no-makeup.png

Even when trying to look done up the goal is often to make it look as natural as possible. So you might have 20 products on your face, but a person looking at you might think you are only wearing a bit of eyeshadow, mascara and some lipstick.

I'm not making the argument that make up is deceitful. But it seems to be a perfectly fine and valid comparison to some of the less extreme PUA stuff.

That woman is clearly wearing make up though. Women don't look like that naturally. Do some women genuinely believe no one would notice unless they stood up close to her face? She looks great and maybe as close to natural as you can look with full make up on..but she's obviously wearing make up. I'd spot it immediately.
I genuinely don't understand how someone couldn't notice. Like when people were shocked when that photo was released of Katy Perry with no make up. Perhasps I'm projecting but I find it genuinely baffling that anyone wouldn't know.


Either way, if that's their intention, fair enough. I stand corrected.

CdeC

He's learnt how to exploit one of the things that men get very insecure about. How to pick up women.

I have no issue with men learning tips and tricks in how to talk to women with the view to flirting and making themselves seem attactive to them but i think that it needs to be in the correct way and with confidence and respect towards said women.

Guy is an ass and his business should be discredited and shutdown.

Yarf Yarf

Yeah, comparing make-up application to PUA techniques is a little silly, to be honest. The difference between a woman wearing make-up and not wearing it is pretty obvious, even if the make-up is well-applied. Yes, women do go for a 'natural' look, but it's still fairly easy to tell the difference between a well made-up face and a truly natural look.

TheBeardedLady

believe whatever you want. On the internet it doesn't count unless you have a link to back it up. Besides i don't see how it's possible to go further than that.

I've forgotten what I'm supposed to prove again.

If you approach 50 women and learn to deal with rejection, that's a permanent change. But You're implying that if someone puts what they learned from PUA into action, they'll not be able to keep up a facade, you're right. However they don't have to. It's about creating an opening where you can actually show yourself off. It's not about pretending to be someone else.

I'm responding to the poster who said this:

And that's exactly what PUA techniques are, it's the guy advertising himself as if he's got an interesting personality, that the woman would be interested in, when in reality he's actually just following something that's pre-prepared.

That's sounds like more than just a simple opener to me. If I "advertise" myself as one thing when I'm not, isn't that pretending?

It sounds to me like people have different ideas of what PUA actually is. The person who wrote the post above thanked your post.

Arsemageddon

No visa for Julien Blanc to enter the UK...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30119100

Given the kicking he got on CNN shouldn't he be given refugee status?

Tiddlypeeps

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

That woman is clearly wearing make up though. Women don't look like that naturally. Do some women genuinely believe no one would notice unless they stood up close to her face? She looks great and maybe as close to natural as you can look with full make up on..but she's obviously wearing make up. I'd spot it immediately.
I genuinely don't understand how someone couldn't notice. Like when people were shocked when that photo was released of Katy Perry with no make up. Perhasps I'm projecting but I find it genuinely baffling that anyone wouldn't know.


Either way, if that's their intention, fair enough. I stand corrected.

You only "know" she is wearing make up because you were told so before hand. Lots of (very lucky) women look like that naturally. If your only reason for saying that looks unnatural is that "no woman could possibly look that good" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Beside the point anyway, the main point was that it is in fact the goal of many people. You say you stand corrected but is that you saying you now think women wearing make up is deceitful or that you now think men trying to improve peoples perceptions of their personality is not deceitful?

J Mysterio

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

. Like when people were shocked when that photo was released of Katy Perry with no make up.

Wow. Just googled that... wow

TheBeardedLady

You only "know" she is wearing make up because you were told so before hand. Lots of (very lucky) women look like that naturally.

Nope. It's obvious.

If your only reason for saying that looks unnatural is that "no woman could possibly look that good" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

That's not my reason. I'm saying it because it's obvious.

I don't think deceit comes into it as deceit has a negative connoation. I don't believ there's any malice involved.

Littlekittylou

Minjor wrote: »

He's been denied a UK visa according to the BBC.

That's a bit extreme!

Littlekittylou

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Nope. It's obvious.



That's not my reason. I'm saying it because it's obvious.

I don't think deceit comes into it as deceit has a negative connoation. I don't believ there's any malice involved.

For many men who go to the talk there is no malice involved. I think the whole reaction is a bit over the top.

bodice ripper

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You only "know" she is wearing make up because you were told so before hand. Lots of (very lucky) women look like that naturally. If your only reason for saying that looks unnatural is that "no woman could possibly look that good" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Beside the point anyway, the main point was that it is in fact the goal of many people. You say you stand corrected but is that you saying you now think women wearing make up is deceitful or that you now think men trying to improve peoples perceptions of their personality is not deceitful?

women generally have pores...

seenitall

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You only "know" she is wearing make up because you were told so before hand. Lots of (very lucky) women look like that naturally. If your only reason for saying that looks unnatural is that "no woman could possibly look that good" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sorry, but the woman from your example is very obviously wearing make up. Just like boddice ripper says, the "no pores" and even skintone is a giveaway, and so is the difference in the colour of eyelashes (the upper set enhanced with mascara) or the slightly glossy lips... I can't believe that, for a make-up expert you are, you would think that the make up on that girl's face is not noticeable!

TheBeardedLady

Littlekittylou wrote: »

For many men who go to the talk there is no malice involved. I think the whole reaction is a bit over the top.

I never said there was. I never mentioned deceit or painted the guys who go to these things in a negative light. My beef is with the gurus. I don't think they're all bad but with an unregulated industry like this with no code of ethics, you don't know whose advice you're buying.Any fool can sell their wares on the internet.

Tiddlypeeps

seenitall wrote: »

Sorry, but the woman from your example is very obviously wearing make up. Just like boddice ripper says, the "no pores" and even skintone is a giveaway, and so is the difference in the colour of eyelashes (the upper set enhanced with mascara) or the slightly glossy lips... I can't believe that, for a make-up expert you are, you would think that the make up on that girl's face is not noticeable!

We'll have to agree to disagree so. I think any guy would be hard pressed to know she is wearing make up in a real life setting and not analyzing a photo. It would certainly be pretty unreasonable to call them stupid for not spotting it.

Also, passive aggressive much, I never claimed to be an expert, I would have though the word hobby would have pretty clearly pointed out not a professional.

seenitall

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Also, passive aggressive much, I never claimed to be an expert, I would have though the word hobby would have pretty clearly pointed out not a professional.

Apologies Tiddly, didn't mean to come across that way - as it happens I hate passive-aggressiveness!

Agreed to disagree so.

RDM_83 again

Couldn't it be both? like I would notice Eye and lip-make up (as a guy) but I probably wouldn't notice subtly applied skin make up, and also are you really up in someones face enough to see their pores anyway?

RDM_83 again

Wow the mods are quick on these threads now! Fairplay!
Is there a scorecard to see who gets the quickest time between re-reg regging and then being banned?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Julien Blanc is a prick and that's all that needs to be said about him.

As for PUA more generally...ugh. Speaking in generalisations obviously, but it's such a perfect example of the differences between men and women's minds that it nearly looks like a masterful satire on the whole thing. Men see a problem: I find it difficult to talk to women, I would like a relationship/sex/whatever the case may be and my lack of confidence and social skills is preventing this. They identify a systematic, specific solution or set of solutions in PUA and set about the thing very methodically and rationally. The irony of it is that the very things that make PUA appealing to men - the concrete, clear techniques, the removal of a lot of the element of chance to social encounters, thinking of it in terms of numbers, strategy etc., are the very things which make it so unappealing to many women. Maybe I'm being naive but I'd go so far as to say the vast majority of women, at least over the age of about 20 or so when you get enough sense to pick up (ha!) on it.

If someone approaches me and tries some contrived pick up it doesn't matter if it's something like negging or if they've brought a deck of cards to the pub to do card tricks as an icebreaker or if they just open with some "intriguing" line like I bet you can't spell my name or whatever the hell. It's an instant turn off. It doesn't communicate to me that this person is confident, or fun, or anything like that. It tells me that they find me so intimidating (I'm really quite nice, honest) and so completely Other that they need an actual playbook for a perfectly normal social interaction with me. Interacting with people like that is exhausting. I haven't tabled this topic at the weekly women meeting so we don't yet have a party line on it, but I doubt I'm alone in feeling that way.

I do feel sorry for shy, lonely lads who get sucked into it, because they're going to either crash and burn, end up with some woman with even lower self-esteem than they have, or some woman who pegs how vulnerable they are and completely manipulates them.

DoYouEvenLift

On the makeup thing, how acceptable do you think it would be to take women swimming for first dates? If they weren't putting their heads underwater to wash off whatever makeup they've on ya could easily do an auld shnakey dunk and play it off as a joke...when in reality, y'know, you're trying to see if she's an ogre in disguise

Littlekittylou

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

On the makeup thing, how acceptable do you think it would be to take women swimming for first dates? If they weren't putting their heads underwater to wash off whatever makeup they've on ya could easily do an auld shnakey dunk and play it off as a joke...when in reality, y'know, you're trying to see if she's an ogre in disguise

I would think that was an AWESOME FIRST DATE!

Strategic (exchange) relationships are fragile and easily break down when there is any level of disagreement. Emotionally intimate (communal) relationships are much more robust and can survive considerable (and even ongoing) disagreements. Emotional intimacy, particularly in sexual relationships, typically develops after a certain level of trust has been reached and personal bonds have been established. The emotional connection of "falling in love", however, has both a biochemical dimension, driven through reactions in the body stimulated by sexual attraction (PEA, phenylethylamine), and a social dimension driven by "talk" that follows from regular physical closeness or sexual union.

Swimming is a great idea for a first date. But the only thing is fate would make it that you get your freaking period! I just know that would happen!

Yes I would want him to see me all done up at some point. We all like to wow our guy sometimes but we also all of us both guys and gals need to feel accepted.

Not all guys who go to this stuff are bad at all they just need acceptance and intimacy.

DoYouEvenLift

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I would think that was an AWESOME FIRST DATE!

Strategic (exchange) relationships are fragile and easily break down when there is any level of disagreement. Emotionally intimate (communal) relationships are much more robust and can survive considerable (and even ongoing) disagreements. Emotional intimacy, particularly in sexual relationships, typically develops after a certain level of trust has been reached and personal bonds have been established. The emotional connection of "falling in love", however, has both a biochemical dimension, driven through reactions in the body stimulated by sexual attraction (PEA, phenylethylamine), and a social dimension driven by "talk" that follows from regular physical closeness or sexual union.

Swimming is a great idea for a first date. But the only thing is fate would make it that you get your freaking period! I just know that would happen!

Yes I would want him to see me all done up at some point. We all like to wow our guy sometimes but we also all of us both guys and gals need to feel accepted.

Not all guys who go to this stuff are bad at all they just need acceptance and intimacy.

It's a rewarding first date either way because even if the girl ended up looking nothing like she does/did with makeup, hey at least you had a nice relaxing swim.

Littlekittylou

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

It's a rewarding first date either way because even if the girl ended up looking nothing like she does/did with makeup, hey at least you had a nice relaxing swim.

Exactly!

Littlekittylou

But being in close proximity with someone is really what it is mostly about. You have to be physically around a woman a long time ..much of which you are doing nothing. Don't talk think bleh bleh..just be ..Intimacy,

Macavity.

Laura Palmer wrote: »

It is quite cultish. If you've ever seen the film Magnolia: scientology enthusiast one Thomas Cruise plays (very convincingly) the role of an extremely sinister PUA "guru" ("Respect the cock, tame the c*nt!") :eek:

Great film. Cruise is in his element in that move, should have won an Oscar.

Foxtrol

Drew Obnoxious Backhand wrote: »

I do feel sorry for shy, lonely lads who get sucked into it, because they're going to either crash and burn, end up with some woman with even lower self-esteem than they have, or some woman who pegs how vulnerable they are and completely manipulates them.

I do feel sorry for self conscious, lonely women who get sucked into spending thousands of euro a year on make up and clothes that are all designed to hide what they really look like, because they're going end up with a guy who's either going to look at them the next morning and say 'wtf is beside me', end up with a guy with even lower self-esteem than them or some guy who pegs how vulnerable they are and completely manipulates them...

If I posted the above in a thread about women's image issues I'd have posters and mods lining up to burn me at the stake but when it's looking down on an issue effecting me its fair game.

Foxtrol

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

Yeah, comparing make-up application to PUA techniques is a little silly, to be honest. The difference between a woman wearing make-up and not wearing it is pretty obvious, even if the make-up is well-applied. Yes, women do go for a 'natural' look, but it's still fairly easy to tell the difference between a well made-up face and a truly natural look.

I've asked this earlier in the thread and never got an answer, but why is the comparison silly because it can be noticed that women are wearing makeup? PUA techniques can be just as obvious when you know what you're looking for. Some women wouldn't spot certain PUA techniques while some men wouldn't spot certain types of makeup. Just because you know makeup doesn't mean that every guy has the same knowledge as you.

Time and again posters are making statements about PUA techniques as if a woman couldn't possibly see through them, they really seem to think they're some mystical powers that make male/female relations unfair.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Foxtrol wrote: »

I do feel sorry for self conscious, lonely women who get sucked into spending thousands of euro a year on make up and clothes that are all designed to hide what they really look like, because they're going end up with a guy who's either going to look at them the next morning and say 'wtf is beside me', end up with a guy with even lower self-esteem than them or some guy who pegs how vulnerable they are and completely manipulates them...

If I posted the above in a thread about women's image issues I'd have posters and mods lining up to burn me at the stake but when it's looking down on an issue effecting me its fair game.

Jesus Christ man we all read you the first time, women wear make-up. Got it. Memo received.

women do not wear make-up EXCLUSIVELY to attract men. women like to look good for other women too. women are expected to maintain a certain standard of appearance (as are men) in a lot of careers. Men get into this PUA stuff EXCLUSIVELY to improve their chances with women, I've never seen it work and I'd say in the vast majority of cases it doesn't really, as in it doesn't end in a happy, healthy relationship. So I feel sorry for nice people who are motivated by loneliness who get sucked into it, and who are looking for a happy, healthy relationship. I'm not slagging men, and you way overreacted. I do (as it happens) feel slightly sorry for women who feel so defined by their appearance and have so little confidence that they get duped into spending crazy amounts of time on cosmetics or surgery or whatever, but I found that whole little diversion on this thread much less compelling than you apparently do, so I didn't bother including it in my reflections on my personal experiences of PUA.

Foxtrol

Drew Obnoxious Backhand wrote: »

Jesus Christ man we all read you the first time, women wear make-up. Got it. Memo received.

women do not wear make-up EXCLUSIVELY to attract men. women like to look good for other women too. women are expected to maintain a certain standard of appearance (as are men) in a lot of careers. Men get into this PUA stuff EXCLUSIVELY to improve their chances with women, I've never seen it work and I'd say in the vast majority of cases it doesn't really, as in it doesn't end in a happy, healthy relationship. So I feel sorry for nice people who are motivated by loneliness who get sucked into it, and who are looking for a happy, healthy relationship. I'm not slagging men, and you way overreacted. I do (as it happens) feel slightly sorry for women who feel so defined by their appearance and have so little confidence that they get duped into spending crazy amounts of time on cosmetics or surgery or whatever, but I found that whole little diversion on this thread much less compelling than you apparently do, so I didn't bother including it in my reflections on my personal experiences of PUA.

You say you get it but you still equate feeling sorry for guys who get sucked into PUA in general and then compare it to only the extreme of women altering their appearance, 'spending crazy amounts of time on cosmetics or surgery', and even at this point you only feel 'slightly sorry' for these women.

You seem to promote as a positive the fact that women try to alter their appearance constantly for both men and women, which to me is a much worrying underlying issue for them than a guy altering his approach to a woman for his initial contact with them.

I frankly think it's time for some of these outraged posters to look in the mirror about how they alter themselves before quickly judging others.

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

I've asked this earlier in the thread and never got an answer, but why is the comparison silly because it can be noticed that women are wearing makeup? PUA techniques can be just as obvious when you know what you're looking for. Some women wouldn't spot certain PUA techniques while some men wouldn't spot certain types of makeup. Just because you know makeup doesn't mean that every guy has the same knowledge as you.

Time and again posters are making statements about PUA techniques as if a woman couldn't possibly see through them, they really seem to think they're some mystical powers that make male/female relations unfair.

What percentage of women do you think wear make up on a typical night out in Ireland, Foxtrol?

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

I frankly think it's time for some of these outraged posters to look in the mirror about how they alter themselves before quickly judging others.

Are people outraged though? I'm not. When people criticise something, it doesn't mean they're outraged.

The_Captain

This week I've learned that some men really do not like being criticised by women

Mr E

Reminder: Don't engage with posters in this thread who have a very low post count - it's a rereg troll who can't take a hint. You're wasting your energy and your posts may be deleted.

DoYouEvenLift

Mr E wrote: »

Reminder: Don't engage with posters in this thread who have a very low post count - it's a rereg troll who can't take a hint. You're wasting your energy and your posts may be deleted.

Can't see post counts on mobile

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Are people outraged though? I'm not. When people criticise something, it doesn't mean they're outraged.

Trying to get a guy banned from a country or being happy that he is seems pretty outraged.

Yarf Yarf

Drew Obnoxious Backhand wrote: »

Jesus Christ man we all read you the first time, women wear make-up. Got it. Memo received.

women do not wear make-up EXCLUSIVELY to attract men. women like to look good for other women too. women are expected to maintain a certain standard of appearance (as are men) in a lot of careers. Men get into this PUA stuff EXCLUSIVELY to improve their chances with women, I've never seen it work and I'd say in the vast majority of cases it doesn't really, as in it doesn't end in a happy, healthy relationship. So I feel sorry for nice people who are motivated by loneliness who get sucked into it, and who are looking for a happy, healthy relationship. I'm not slagging men, and you way overreacted. I do (as it happens) feel slightly sorry for women who feel so defined by their appearance and have so little confidence that they get duped into spending crazy amounts of time on cosmetics or surgery or whatever, but I found that whole little diversion on this thread much less compelling than you apparently do, so I didn't bother including it in my reflections on my personal experiences of PUA.

Yeah, I'm not sure how many men actually realize that women dressing up and putting on make up isn't something they do to impress men and to partake in some kind of 'false advertising' to dupe men into sleeping with them. Many women dress up for themselves and for each other more than anything. I've gotten more dolled up with my female friends than I ever have for any man. Believe it or not, women don't just exist for men.

PUA on the other hand is exclusively intended to attract women and often in pretty manipulative ways. It's a bull**** practice, honestly. It makes fools of both the women targeted by it and the men who fall for the charlatans making money off it.