Julien Blanc gets destroyed in CNN interview

Foxtrol

The_Captain wrote: »

This week I've learned that some men really do not like being criticised by women

I don't mind criticism, my issue is how the criticism of the actions of one man is being twisted by some posters to tar a large group of other men as being the same, with these posts being uneducated and total hypocritical not helping either.

This is quite ironic after the threads over the last few weeks complaining about sweeping statements about groups of women thinking/acting the same way due to the actions of a few.

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

What percentage of women do you think wear make up on a typical night out in Ireland, Foxtrol?

Near 100%.

How many men alter their personality to some degree when talking to women on a night out? Near 100%.

Foxtrol

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure how many men actually realize that women dressing up and putting on make up isn't something they do to impress men and to partake in some kind of 'false advertising' to dupe men into sleeping with them. Many women dress up for themselves and for each other more than anything. I've gotten more dolled up with my female friends than I ever have for any man. Believe it or not, women don't just exist for men.

PUA on the other hand is exclusively intended to attract women and often in pretty manipulative ways. It's a bull**** practice, honestly. It makes fools of both the women targeted by it and the men who fall for the charlatans making money off it.

The poster you quoted hasn't responded to my reply to this, so maybe you can seeing as you agree so much with her:

Which is more healthy, feeling the need to continuously alter yourself to the whole world or feeling the need to alter yourself for a few minutes of initial contact with someone?

Do women act 100% truthful to their personality when they initially meet a guy? Maybe google 'how to flirt with a guy' or 'how to get a guy' and see how many articles and youtube videos there are before responding.

Potatoeman

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure how many men actually realize that women dressing up and putting on make up isn't something they do to impress men and to partake in some kind of 'false advertising' to dupe men into sleeping with them. Many women dress up for themselves and for each other more than anything. I've gotten more dolled up with my female friends than I ever have for any man. Believe it or not, women don't just exist for men.

PUA on the other hand is exclusively intended to attract women and often in pretty manipulative ways. It's a bull**** practice, honestly. It makes fools of both the women targeted by it and the men who fall for the charlatans making money off it.

Do you put the same effort in when they drop over to your house?

Im sure there are many reasons to do it but its making yourself more desirable to the opposite sex either to impress your friends and increase your social standing or simply getting attention is very much about the opposite sex. You might be not be looking for contact but it is looking for attention or validation.

Its Only Ray Parlour

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure how many men actually realize that women dressing up and putting on make up isn't something they do to impress men and to partake in some kind of 'false advertising' to dupe men into sleeping with them. Many women dress up for themselves and for each other more than anything. I've gotten more dolled up with my female friends than I ever have for any man. Believe it or not, women don't just exist for men.

PUA on the other hand is exclusively intended to attract women and often in pretty manipulative ways. It's a bull**** practice, honestly. It makes fools of both the women targeted by it and the men who fall for the charlatans making money off it.

If a single woman is stuffing her bra or wearing a Wonderbra in a nightclub, chances are, she doing to to pull men - this is much worse than pickup artists. At least pickup artists gain confidence that may be permanent, but when those women bring men home, those bras have to come off and the truth will be revealed.

I agree women wearing makeup isn't just solely for attracting men, having horrible acne can lead to bullying and low self-esteem - I had acne when I was going through puberty and it's horrible.

You're also generalising all pickup artists to be like Julien Blanc. There are different techniques and not all of them involve sexual abuse and degrading women.

seenitall

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trying to get a guy banned from a country or being happy that he is seems pretty outraged.

Oooops... a tiny mask-slipping moment there Foxtrol... morto for you

Foxtrol

seenitall wrote: »

Oooops... a tiny mask-slipping moment there Foxtrol... morto for you

What?

wes

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

You're also generalising all pickup artists to be like Julien Blanc. There are different techniques and not all of them involve sexual abuse and degrading women.

Any examples? Honest question here, I am not saying there not all like Julien Blanc (i doubt to many people are stupid enough to out and out advocate assault), but a lot of other PUA stuff I have seen is deplorable in there own right, and I have yet to see any stuff that isn't degrading and just awful to Women.

Foxtrol

wes wrote: »

Any examples? Honest question here, I am not saying there not all like Julien Blanc (i doubt to many people are stupid enough to out and out advocate assault), but a lot of other PUA stuff I have seen is deplorable in there own right, and I have yet to see any stuff that isn't degrading and just awful to Women.

Can you give examples of 'a lot of other PUA stuff' that you find so deplorable? What's so degrading and awful about them?

wes

Foxtrol wrote: »

Can you give examples of 'a lot of other PUA stuff' that you find so deplorable? What's so degrading and awful about them?

Really? Negging for example off the top of my head, which from every single PUA source that I have seen, is a major component.

Julien Blanc that we are discussing in this thread.

If you want to defend PUA, btw it would be far better to point out the good PUA sources, that doesn't resort to negging and other such nonsense. I asked a question, and I know not to yourself, and instead of providing an answer, you instead ask what I find deplorable, which leads me to believe that I was indeed correct in the first instance.

Yarf Yarf

Potatoeman wrote: »

Do you put the same effort in when they drop over to your house?

Im sure there are many reasons to do it but its making yourself more desirable to the opposite sex either to impress your friends and increase your social standing or simply getting attention is very much about the opposite sex. You might be not be looking for contact but it is looking for attention or validation.

I think I'd know myself, to be honest, and it is very much about other women and less to do with men.

Yarf Yarf

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

If a single woman is stuffing her bra or wearing a Wonderbra in a nightclub, chances are, she doing to to pull men - this is much worse than pickup artists. At least pickup artists gain confidence that may be permanent, but when those women bring men home, those bras have to come off and the truth will be revealed.

I agree women wearing makeup isn't just solely for attracting men, having horrible acne can lead to bullying and low self-esteem - I had acne when I was going through puberty and it's horrible.

You're also generalising all pickup artists to be like Julien Blanc. There are different techniques and not all of them involve sexual abuse and degrading women.

:rolleyes:

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trying to get a guy banned from a country or being happy that he is seems pretty outraged.

Wait, I thought you were talking about people being outraged about PUA, not that prick.




I really think people on Boards need to look up the word, "outraged".

TheBeardedLady

Near 100%.

Yep. I agree. So when you say "make up is very hard to see in a club" then it doesn't really matter; you can safely assume she is wearing at least some. For the most part, it's not something women are trying to hide from men (although now I acknowledge some are).

How many men alter their personality to some degree when talking to women on a night out? Near 100%.

And how many women are aware of this? I'd say close to 100%


How many men are using PUA techniques in a club? No idea. A woman finding out would be disastrous for the man in question. For it to work, it can't be revealed. That's the whole basis of it - for a woman to believe this is how the guy is naturally and not just tricks he learned off the net.

Again, I've no problem with the harmless openers men use but tbh, the fact that it's so calculated would be a turn off for me and for virtually all women, I'd say. Hence why it has to be kept a secret.

bodice ripper

I'd be of the opinion that make up is more for the benefit of other women than it is for men.

Pretending that you think people are outraged in a temper-flaring, foot-stamping and flared-nostril stereotypical way, is a way of painting them as unreasonable and overreacting. Its a tactic to put them on the defensive.

I'm not outraged at PUA or Mr Blanc. I simply think PUA is creepy and that Mr Blanc is a creep of the highest order. And I just go about my life, not outraged at anyone.

It's right up there with calling someone hysterical as a means of making them look over the top and easily offended.

tritium

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

How many men are using PUA techniques in a club? No idea. A woman finding out would be disastrous for the man in question. For it to work, it can't be revealed. That's the whole basis of it - for a woman to believe this is how the guy is naturally and not just tricks he learned off the net.

Actually I disagree here. If they're using stuff from PUA to get the confidence to approach someone or to have a few conversation openers I don't think anyone could know or would care. Hell of a gulf between that and wingmen, negging, etc. Hell of a gulf again to a douche like Julien Blanc

Potatoeman

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

I think I'd know myself, to be honest, and it is very much about other women and less to do with men.

Its dependant on male attention. The dressing up is designed to attract male attention and increase social status within the group. Its a sort of ingrained social behaviour the you may not even be aware of.

Again, do you dress up when they come over to your house?

bodice ripper

Potatoeman wrote: »

Its dependant on male attention. The dressing up is designed to attract male attention and increase social status within the group. Its a sort of ingrained social behaviour the you may not even be aware of.

Again, do you dress up when they come over to your house?

but you worked it out, yeah?

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Wait, I thought you were talking about people being outraged about PUA, not that prick.

I really think people on Boards need to look up the word, "outraged".

There's outrage at him and then they lump all PUA together with him. They're the posters I'm talking about.

If posters want to accept that what he does and the large majority of PUA techniques are very different then I can withdraw the outrage comment.

tiny_penguin

Potatoeman wrote: »

Its dependant on male attention. The dressing up is designed to attract male attention and increase social status within the group. Its a sort of ingrained social behaviour the you may not even be aware of.

Again, do you dress up when they come over to your house?

Sometimes I do my hair and make up just to sit at home on my own to feel good about myself - mostly when my partner is out of the house or away. Who's attention am I looking for then?

I sometimes wear make up when the girls come over for a night in and sometimes they can show up and im in my pj's lounging around. Depends on my mood.

I often venture out without a stitch of make up, sometimes with the 'natural' look and sometimes with a fair amount on. Where I am going and who I am meeting is largely irrelevant though am slightly more likely to wear more make up going to a restaurant/bar but again will happily go without. I wear make up and dress up totally dependent on my mood. I do it either to make myself feel good or just because I like playing around with the stuff.

People wear make up for a variety of different reasons and not just to present a certain idea of themselves to men

TheBeardedLady

tritium wrote: »

Actually I disagree here. If they're using stuff from PUA to get the confidence to approach someone or to have a few conversation openers I don't think anyone could know or would care. Hell of a gulf between that and wingmen, negging, etc. Hell of a gulf again to a douche like Julien Blanc

I disagree. I believe many women would be turned off if they knew. Not to say the guy is at fault and yes, we all put our
best foot forward when on the pull but I don't think any woman would be attracted to something so contrived if she found out. Spontaneity and unpredictability is half of the fun of flirtation.

I suppose the more well known it becomes, the less effective it'll be.















best foot forward when on the pull but

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

There's outrage at him and then they lump all PUA together with him. They're the posters I'm talking about.

If posters want to accept that what he does and the large majority of PUA techniques are very different then I can withdraw the outrage comment.

If you believe people are punching holes in the walls and going all red in the face with outrage, go right ahead.

TheBeardedLady

Potatoeman wrote: »

Its dependant on male attention. The dressing up is designed to attract male attention and increase social status within the group. Its a sort of ingrained social behaviour the you may not even be aware of.

Again, do you dress up when they come over to your house?

Hahaha! You have us sussed!

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yep. I agree. So when you say "make up is very hard to see in a club" then it doesn't really matter; you can safely assume she is wearing at least some. For the most part, it's not something women are trying to hide from men (although now I acknowledge some are).

And how many women are aware of this? I'd say close to 100%

How many men are using PUA techniques in a club? No idea. A woman finding out would be disastrous for the man in question. For it to work, it can't be revealed. That's the whole basis of it - for a woman to believe this is how the guy is naturally and not just tricks he learned off the net.

Again, I've no problem with the harmless openers men use but tbh, the fact that it's so calculated would be a turn off for me and for virtually all women, I'd say. Hence why it has to be kept a secret.

I can use the exact same argument to you.

How much makeup is a given girl wearing in a club? No idea. Guys know women are probably some but they have no idea whether the girl they're talking to has spent 4 hours getting herself ready, using dozens of products or has put a little bit on and took twenty minutes. A guy might think she's slightly improved herself, not that she looks like a whole different person without it.

These women who spend hours on their opinion would be the just as calculating, getting themselves up early to do themselves up before the guy wakes up, getting up ridiculously every morning to go to work, post their no makeup selfies clearly with a filter, beneficial lighting and even wearing subtle makeup.

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

If you believe people are punching holes in the walls and going all red in the face with outrage, go right ahead.

I've just looked up outrage there and I dont see anywhere that defines it as people going red faced and punching holes in walls.

It's described as an extremely strong reaction of anger, shock, or indignation. Hoping a guy doesn't get a visa to a country to me is an extremely strong reaction to something. If it's not to you then we can agree to disagree.

TheBeardedLady

I can't quote your post but you've basically done a full circle and compared extreme cases of make up application and preening with PUA.





I'm off to punch some walls in with indignation. Ciao!

Potatoeman

bodice ripper wrote: »

but you worked it out, yeah?

I'm casually interested in phycology, social interactions and body language. It can be very interesting to watch for once you recognise some of the social tics people have.

Foxtrol

wes wrote: »

Really? Negging for example off the top of my head, which from every single PUA source that I have seen, is a major component.

So negging is all you have? After seeing 'a lot of other PUA stuff' that was 'degrading', 'deplorable', and 'awful to women', you've posted the only other debatably negative technique that is widely known and mentioned several times on this thread. Looks to me that someone has done little to no research themselves and has instead just regurgitation what they've heard from others.

I don't actually believe in a lot of cases that negging is any of those things you listed and it's something that many women (especially in the case of Irish women) do a lot. Many times I've been chatting to women and they'll playfully make fun of something I say, do, wearing. Many Irish people would call it friendly banter.

Julien Blanc that we are discussing in this thread.

If you want to defend PUA, btw it would be far better to point out the good PUA sources, that doesn't resort to negging and other such nonsense. I asked a question, and I know not to yourself, and instead of providing an answer, you instead ask what I find deplorable, which leads me to believe that I was indeed correct in the first instance.

I'm simply asking you to justify your statement. Am I not allowed to do that and must take it onboard without providing any examples for the many PUA techniques that you find deplorable?

I'm not here to defend all PUA, I'm simply asking posters to justify why they feel so strongly against it, when they seemingly have very little to back up their opinion, and then why it's not hypocritical to denounce a group of people altering their personalities when they themselves are constantly altering their appearance.

bodice ripper

Potatoeman wrote: »

I'm casually interested in phycology, social interactions and body language. It can be very interesting to watch for once you recognise some of the social tics people have.

telling people you have never met that you understand their own behaviour/mindset better than they do is pretty arrogant, don't you think?

Grayson

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I can't quote your post but you've basically done a full circle and compared extreme cases of make up application and preening with PUA.

It is the same though.
Think of it this way. I bet every woman in the world has at some point feigned interest in something a guy was saying because she fancied him.

"Your football team did how good?"
"What level is your warcraft character?"

Guys will do the same.

"that's a really cute cat. Do you have any more pictures?"



And conversely, something both genders learn is how to recognise when they're starting to bore someone. Then they switch the conversation.

The thing is, some guys are useless at it ,so they try to learn it. And that's PUA.

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I can't quote your post but you've basically done a full circle and compared extreme cases of make up application and preening with PUA.

I'm off to punch some walls in with indignation. Ciao!

Yes, it's come full circle because I was showing you that I can easily make the same argument that you put forward so I could show how pointless your post was.

I'm not trying to prove that they're different, you are. If they are as you feel you should be able to make at least one argument that I can't turn around and place PUA techniques in and make the same back to you.

My point is that they're as bad as each other and I've made several points showing how they are.

Enjoy!!

TheBeardedLady

Potatoeman wrote: »

I'm casually interested in phycology, social interactions and body language. It can be very interesting to watch for once you recognise some of the social tics people have.

I'm casually interested in physics. I think it's amazing the way gravity works 'n' stuff.

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yes, it's come full circle because I was showing you that I can easily make the same argument that you put forward so I could show how pointless your post was.

I'm not trying to prove that they're different, you are. If they are as you feel you should be able to make at least one argument that I can't turn around and place PUA techniques in and make the same back to you.

My point is that they're as bad as each other and I've made several points showing how they are.

Enjoy!!

You didn't turn any of my points around though. Me putting my mascara on in the morning so my eyelashes are visible is not the same thing as a man studying Youtube videos to bed women no matter what our resident amateur psychologist tells us.

Potatoeman

bodice ripper wrote: »

telling people you have never met that you understand their own behaviour/mindset better than they do is pretty arrogant, don't you think?

Most people don't analyse their own actions or even most social norms. Look at these PUA guys. They are reacting to their situation. I think the negative attitude some of them have is reflective of their own situation where they have to modify their own behaviour to meet women and some of them resent the women they are pursuing as they have to present a front to seduce them.

Anyway aren't people here telling these guys their attitude is creepy and they don't understand their mindset...

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

You didn't turn any of my points around though. Me putting my mascara on in the morning so my eyelashes are visible is not the same thing as a man studying Youtube videos to bed women no matter what our resident amateur psychologist tells us.

No, I would however say a guy using basic PUA techniques, for example learning to alter their body language, are equivalent to you putting mascara on in the morning. They only make subtle differences but they're there for all to see.

You're continuously refusing to compare like with like, which is what I was showing you by using your technique of pointing to extreme examples. You've even gone as far as to refuse to include basic PUA techniques under that name, as those don't fit the narrative you're trying to portray.

enfant terrible

tiny_penguin wrote: »

Sometimes I do my hair and make up just to sit at home on my own to feel good about myself - mostly when my partner is out of the house or away. Who's attention am I looking for then?

I sometimes wear make up when the girls come over for a night in and sometimes they can show up and im in my pj's lounging around. Depends on my mood.

I often venture out without a stitch of make up, sometimes with the 'natural' look and sometimes with a fair amount on. Where I am going and who I am meeting is largely irrelevant though am slightly more likely to wear more make up going to a restaurant/bar but again will happily go without. I wear make up and dress up totally dependent on my mood. I do it either to make myself feel good or just because I like playing around with the stuff.

People wear make up for a variety of different reasons and not just to present a certain idea of themselves to men

Guys probably use PUA for a variety of different reasons too.

Some to get laid, some to improve their confidence, some to improve their social skills.

Think someone needs to define PUA.

Is it techniques to get laid or just to improve confidence and social skills.

Also how is it done, is it reading off a script or just talking to more girls to get good at it?

Billy86

wes wrote: »

If you want to defend PUA, btw it would be far better to point out the good PUA sources, that doesn't resort to negging and other such nonsense. I asked a question, and I know not to yourself, and instead of providing an answer, you instead ask what I find deplorable, which leads me to believe that I was indeed correct in the first instance.

I'll give this one a go...

First, I'm not a huge fan of the whole 'PUA' thing because I'm sure a lot of people use it negatively. But about 10 years ago when I was a teenager in fairly long slump I did a bit of googling and came across a book on this that I gave a read, and picked some stuff up off, not any of this 'negging' stuff which I didn't get then and never bothered with (but being Irish, we typically do a fair bit of light slagging and teasing from the get go, whereas Americans for example are often more formal and polite on first meeting I tend to find). I didn't really go actively out of my way to do all the stuff I had read or anything, but a lot of it was just ...obvious... after reading it, though stuff I wasn't doing before. Things like...

- Keep a good posture, don't slump or slouch, keep open body language, don't shield yourself off with your pint glass or whatever is in your hands, don't be fidgety, and stand with your feet in line with your shoulders.

- Speak from your diaphragm so you don't sound high pitched and squeaky, raise and dip your tone of voice (and level of excitement or calmness) when you are speaking so you don't come over boring and monotone.

- If you see a girl you're interested in, don't go up to her when she is alone at the bar or similar, go up and talk to her when she is with her friends. And talk to all of her friends - people tend to overvalue what their friends opinion of someone would be or is, so if you have not met them yet and they like you some girls will still give it a miss because they are worried of what others might think. On the flipside, if you win her friends over that can count as a plus. Also it's far less intimidating or whatnot if she has the safety blanket of friends around her when you come up - and on that note, never try to say hello to a girl by tapping her on the back/shoulder/etc when she is facing away from you. Ever since I read that, I can't help but notice just how often this happens (in Ireland especially) and how much of an almost guaranteed failure it is, barring certain exceptions like being in the smoking area of a pub/club (and even then it usually ends with, "well I have to go find my friends, have a good night!").

- Unless you are dead set, 100% definite she is into you as well, don't start really showing you are very interested in her at first, just get chatting and try to sell yourself to her until you start seeing signs of interest back. Do keep a lot of eye contact and listen with interest to what she is saying though. EDIT: This isn't in the interest of being cocky/arrogant/etc, but more that if you find a girl attractive in a busy venue, plenty of other guys do too. Which means she is probably getting gawked at, chatted up, etc a good deal over the course of the night and may well be sick of it or not in the mood, so instead just try chatting away and being sociable to get a foot in the door, and see if it leads anywhere.

- If you do see she is into you at some point, don't move too fast on it because it can be a shock, unexpected, creepy, off putting, etc (just spend half an hour sober in Coppers or the likes to see for yourself). Do something stupid like a secret handshake if you're getting on well, or a slight bit of contact like tapping her on the wrist to get her attention if you're still a bit uncertain. Slowly increase how much contact you're making (hand on shoulder, arm around her, etc) if she's liking it. And don't just presume she's liking it - she will do the same back if she is, and if she doesn't she's probably not too interested (e.g. you tap her on the wrist to tell her a funny story/joke/etc, she grabs your forearm to say something back, you put a hand on her upper arm saying something else, etc, etc...)

- Don't do chat up lines (not me anyway, always hated those things!) but don't be boring or too serious - if you and a friend are in disagreement or something, go up and ask them to settle it (like if he thinks your shirt looks awful). Also, instead of saying something about yourself and leaving it at that or giving one or two word answers, tell a story about yourself to describe what you mean and make it more engaging - being very talkative. Not a long winded memoir or anything, just a quick little anecdote. Try and encourage her to do the same back - also helps find out how interesting she is, as well as breaking down any shyness she might have. Just be chatty and fun to be around.

- Make a point over what you are interested in and try to get them to give back there too, and don't be shy over whatever it is. If it's sports, cooking, films, music, computer games, it doesn't matter... just jump around different things until you get to a good talking point that you're both interested in. And don't talk much about your job unless it is something you are really passionate about that you're able to get others interested in too.

I'm sure there are thousands and thousands of other things that are way more complicated and often completely over thought, as well as devious and whatnot as well, but I really have no interest in that. The stuff above I actually just do without noticing though, I mostly did before reading that book too but was just struggling to get from A to B (as many teenagers do!) so while I wouldn't have any interest whatsoever in doing 'PUA' I would encourage anyone having difficulty with women or even just in a slump to take a quick read through an introductory type book and give it a whirl.

Funny enough, a few years later I did door to door sales for a couple of months, and when they were doing training with us, most of what they taught were the exact same things. Some of the stuff also works great in interviews (I've only once got through to interview stage and not got the job... because the bus came 30 minutes late and so I got there 10 minutes late). Just like trying to get a girl you are interested in to be interested back in you, it's really all just a sales process where you're pretty much selling yourself. Most of the basic stuff I saw was really just confidence boosting tips, ways to sell yourself positively, and spotting signs that a girl is interested in you - none of that is exactly evil if you ask me, it's pretty much just 'social sales techniques' (for want of a better term), and is beneficial across many walks of life, not just getting the ride.

But like I said, there are of course a lot of dodgy salespeople out there.

smurgen

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure how many men actually realize that women dressing up and putting on make up isn't something they do to impress men and to partake in some kind of 'false advertising' to dupe men into sleeping with them. Many women dress up for themselves and for each other more than anything. I've gotten more dolled up with my female friends than I ever have for any man. Believe it or not, women don't just exist for men.

PUA on the other hand is exclusively intended to attract women and often in pretty manipulative ways. It's a bull**** practice, honestly. It makes fools of both the women targeted by it and the men who fall for the charlatans making money off it.

True dat.I dunno how many times I had fights with my now ex girlfriend about how long she took to get ready.I was extremely attracted to her and fully aware of what she looked like without the make up.I just felt like her self esteem depended on it too much! In the end women should just do what makes them feel comfortable.

tiny_penguin

enfant terrible wrote: »

Guys probably use PUA for a variety of different reasons too.

Some to get laid, some to improve their confidence, some to improve their social skills.

Think someone needs to define PUA.

Is it techniques to get laid or just to improve confidence and social skills.

Also how is it done, is it reading off a script or just talking to more girls to get good at it?

This is true though by the name 'Pick Up Artist' it is directly targeting men picking up women rather than the other reasons and qualities people may pick up from it. My post was more because I don't think its fair for someone to say that the only reason women put on make up is for attention from men and it being about false advertising.


To be honest PUA techniques in general I have no problem with. Julien Blanc and people like him I have a problem with. I think people do try to put their best self forward when meeting people and the help give a little courage and confidence for people to highlight their best features is fine.

However the marketing I have seen a lot of the time and even the name itself do seem to present the skills being more about bedding lots of women more so than making long lasting connections which is why I think it has the reputation of being a little sleezy. If they are just interested in a one night stand and not a long term thing then they may not be as concerned in presenting the best form of themselves, rather just being whoever their target wants them to be which is a little more misleading. I think there is an idea that these workshops speak of women in terms of prizes or sobjects and whether that is right or wrong before this guy Julien showed up this impression existed.

Obviously there are whole spectrums of the aims and techniques used, and it isn't fair to tar them all with the same brush, but it is human nature and many people will by default.

Potatoeman

tiny_penguin wrote: »

This is true though by the name 'Pick Up Artist' it is directly targeting men picking up women rather than the other reasons and qualities people may pick up from it. My post was more because I don't think its fair for someone to say that the only reason women put on make up is for attention from men and it being about false advertising.


To be honest PUA techniques in general I have no problem with. Julien Blanc and people like him I have a problem with. I think people do try to put their best self forward when meeting people and the help give a little courage and confidence for people to highlight their best features is fine.

However the marketing I have seen a lot of the time and even the name itself do seem to present the skills being more about bedding lots of women more so than making long lasting connections which is why I think it has the reputation of being a little sleezy. If they are just interested in a one night stand and not a long term thing then they may not be as concerned in presenting the best form of themselves, rather just being whoever their target wants them to be which is a little more misleading. I think there is an idea that these workshops speak of women in terms of prizes or sobjects and whether that is right or wrong before this guy Julien showed up this impression existed.

Obviously there are whole spectrums of the aims and techniques used, and it isn't fair to tar them all with the same brush, but it is human nature and many people will by default.

Don't you think grown women are capable of making up their own minds? You can't really trick someone into sleeping with you. It's something that they are willing to do or aren't. The idea that the next morning they reveal their true side kind of ignores the fact that the person they seduced didn't really know them at all or didn't bother to scratch the surface of the persona they presented.

tiny_penguin

Potatoeman wrote: »

Don't you think grown women are capable of making up their own minds? You can't really trick someone into sleeping with you. It's something that they are willing to do or aren't. The idea that the next morning they reveal their true side kind of ignores the fact that the person they seduced didn't really know them at all or didn't bother to scratch the surface of the person they presented.

Not necessarily tricked into sleeping with someone but maybe tricked into believing it is more than a one night stand. Also this is something not exclusive to men who have studied PUA techniques and not even exclusive to men, women also do it too.

tritium

tiny_penguin wrote: »

Not necessarily tricked into sleeping with someone but maybe tricked into believing it is more than a one night stand. Also this is something not exclusive to men who have studied PUA techniques and not even exclusive to men, women also do it too.

I think that's a valid but more general point. If someone is led on to believe theres more there than just a one night stand then thats deceitful. Both men and women do that, and without any pua connotations.

On the other hand I've less issue with someone learning some stuff that will help them make an initial connection where theyre looking for something longer term. ultimately anything longer term will require their true personality to come out anyway and if it means a few dates to see how you click together when your real persona is on show then what the heck (pua doesn't seem particularly viable as a long term communication strategy)

Equally if both parties just actually want a one night stand then tbh I don't see how knowing the depths of someone's soul actually really matters. Given that alcohol and so on are probably giving a radically altered view of the personality already I don't think pua techniques are the fakest thing in the room here (from either party). I doubt most guys/ girls who have one night stands are too concerned that the other person isn't as witty or colourful the next morning.

DoYouEvenLift

Here we go guys, this is how true picking up is done, none of that wasting time negging sh!t. Just a totally direct and open approach, a true numbers game lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSltHWGk55M

Potatoeman

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Here we go guys, this is how true picking up is done, none of that wasting time negging sh!t. Just a totally direct and open approach, a true numbers game lol

I had a friend that used to do that (not as blunt and not asking for sex) but he would approach every girl in a club until one would accept. Girls that refused used to get so mad if their friend went for it.

DoYouEvenLift

Potatoeman wrote: »

I had a friend that used to do that (not as blunt and not asking for sex) but he would approach every girl in a club until one would accept. Girls that refused used to get so mad if their friend went for it.

Lol, wonder why

Chancer3001

Puais simple psychology.

It just explains attraction and how to build it

Laura Palmer

kjl wrote: »

The guy at the start is a bit of a knob but I did watch him on a proper video (about 60 long) once and not once did he say anything about physical abuse.

This is just CNN being CNN and if the OP is so dumb to realise that CNN is a ratings based news network and not a real news network the maybe we should close the thread now. Sure one time I saw them use a psychic to see if the knew where malaysia airlines flight 370 was.

Total rubbish.

Isn't there footage of him doing that stuff which is very questionable and causing controversy? Not total rubbish. Not sure why it makes a difference that he didn't talk about physical abuse in the video you watched; the controversy surrounding him is based on something else, not that video.

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

On the makeup thing, how acceptable do you think it would be to take women swimming for first dates? If they weren't putting their heads underwater to wash off whatever makeup they've on ya could easily do an auld shnakey dunk and play it off as a joke...when in reality, y'know, you're trying to see if she's an ogre in disguise

I would recommend to anyone who gets a stunt pulled on them like that on a first date... not to go on a second date with that person.
I'd also wonder about the views of a person thinking along the lines of "I'm going on a date with this person - I think I should catch them out!"

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

If a single woman is stuffing her bra or wearing a Wonderbra in a nightclub, chances are, she doing to to pull men - this is much worse than pickup artists.

Yeh, wearing a Wonderbra to make your boobs look nice - the epitome of conniving.
Any bra gives boobs a lift. Better than not wearing one and causing them to droop prematurely.
(Stuffing one's bra is fairly OTT I'd agree).
Women should ensure not to get dressed in clothes that flatter them either when going out - baggy pants and t-shirts ftw!

I don't agree with the assertion that women wear make-up for other women though.

DoYouEvenLift

Laura Palmer wrote: »

Isn't there footage of him doing that stuff which is very questionable and causing controversy?

I would recommend to anyone who gets a stunt pulled on them like that on a first date... not to go on a second date with that person.
I'd also wonder about the views of a person thinking along the lines of "I'm going on a date with this person - I think I should catch them out!"

Yeh, wearing a Wonderbra to make your boobs look nice - the epitome of conniving.
Any bra gives boobs a lift. Better than not wearing one and causing them to droop prematurely.
(Stuffing one's bra is fairly OTT I'd agree).
Women should ensure not to get dressed in clothes that flatter them either when going out - baggy pants and t-shirts ftw!

I don't agree with the assertion that women wear make-up for other women though.

Remembered reading something about this a while back:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/259073.php

PopePalpatine

They discussed this creep on The Last Word earlier this evening, his apologists wasted no time in whinging about the threat of him not being granted a visa to this country.