Julien Blanc gets destroyed in CNN interview

Chancer3001

Also, I'll reiterate negging is less than 1% of what pua is all about

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Also, I'll reiterate negging is less than 1% of what pua is all about

Whats negging??

Chancer3001

Basically giving a compliment that also isn't a compliment.


Like a girl said to me one night, your t shirt is nice. I saw some two other fellas wearing it in the last pub.

She basically "negged" me there.

It could not be less of a big deal

TheBeardedLady

Firstly, I would never take advice from a guy wearing sunglasses inside and clearly hasn't really planned what he was going to say. He never actually went into how to incorporate his perspective into talking to a woman, as his bravado would never hold up. I stand by what I said that if you're negging a woman and you come across like a dickhead, you're doing it wrong.

It doesn't matter what YOU would do. That video has had 21,000 views. That was the first video I came upon when I typed in "negging" so at least some men must be following his advice. There's thousands of them there. All falls under PUA.

I don't know what planet you're living on or what thread you're reading as I haven't been defending PUA without question. I'm not defending all negging, I'm saying all negging isn't evil.

You refute all criticism of it including criticism of Julien BLanc. You haven't even tried PUA, have you? You've only watched a few videos on Youtube. In fairness, what would you know in that case?

Again, I really have to wonder what's the point if men on here are defending JB.

volchitsa

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not defending all negging, I'm saying all negging isn't evil.

Not sure about how useful a word like "evil" is, but would you agree that negging (I presume this means subtly undermining someone by backhanded compliments and the like - and if I'm wrong maybe you could explain what you understand by it?) in order to get a person to agree to have sex with you when they otherwise might not choose to is manipulative and possibly sociopathic behaviour?

the evasion_kid

tomwaterford wrote: »

Whats negging??

The comment section in this is a warzone!

http://www.seductionscience.com/2010/negging-women/

Foxtrol

volchitsa wrote: »

If she was deliberately using a strategy of undermining you so you would go out with her, then hell yeah. That's a seriously manipulative approach to relationships that doesn't augur well, IMO.

I disagree. If a strategy gave her the confidence to come up and talk to me which then allowed us the opportunity to see if we liked each other, which wouldn't have happened otherwise, then I don't think one comment makes her a bad person.

RDM_83 again

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I think Wibbs had a point when he said it was a number game. Men who never approached women now feel brave enough to approach women, so if they talk to enough women, they're bound to get lucky with at least one.

Yeah I remember that post, I've a friend that just wanders the streets when he's locked chatting up people, its bloody annoying being out with him when he reaches that point of lockedness and he says himself its not a great thing, but he does end up in bed with a lot of random woman he has no idea what he did to end up with them so to him the method is "successful"

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Not sure what the answer is. What was wrong with alcohol for dutch courage anyway? :-p

Wait are you a fully fledged femenazi saying that sex with alcohol on board isn't rape, I'm frankly shocked and appalled

Also its Saturday night, and the busiest thread is the one arguing about PUA, there has to be at least some irony in that :P

volchitsa

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Basically giving a compliment that also isn't a compliment.


Like a girl said to me one night, your t shirt is nice. I saw some two other fellas wearing it in the last pub.

She basically "negged" me there.

It could not be less of a big deal

Was she trying to get you to do something for her that you would not otherwise have done though?

Chancer3001

Having somebody sleep with you who otherwise wouldn't??

Sorry what??

Have you ever been on a night out?

Or had sex?

That's how it works. Most people wouldn't have sex with a complete stranger. Get to know each other a bit, like each other's personalities, find each other attractive, maybe then. Sometimes straight away, sometimes after waiting for months.

Pua just gives you tools to make yourself more attractive.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Gets 'owned' is the correct terminology.

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Basically giving a compliment that also isn't a compliment.


Like a girl said to me one night, your t shirt is nice. I saw some two other fellas wearing it in the last pub.

She basically "negged" me there.

It could not be less of a big deal

Seems pointless Tbh ??

Sure is that not a waste of time and energy!! sure that's about as interesting to talk about as paint drying

Chancer3001

It's so you don't seem over eager.

Over eagerness is not attractive ya see...

volchitsa

Foxtrol wrote: »

I disagree. If a strategy gave her the confidence to come up and talk to me which then allowed us the opportunity to see if we liked each other, which wouldn't have happened otherwise, then I don't think one comment makes her a bad person.

How does a strategy of undermining someone else give the person confidence though? It can only, IMO, be by deliberately making the other person feel bad about themselves.

Like I say, I wouldn't say it's evil, but I'd say that sort of behaviour is not healthy. You see it in work situations too, but in my own view, using it in personal relationships is really very crummy. I can't see how I could like anyone who did that to me. The only way it could possibly work is if I got taken in by it.

It's a bit like you're saying if I told you I was rich and had a great job, so as to get enough confidence to talk to me. That relationship can only last until the truth comes out - so if all I want is to have sex with you, then my lies are fine.

But it says a lot about the person who sees relationships in that way.

RDM_83 again

volchitsa wrote: »

Not sure about how useful a word like "evil" is, but would you agree that negging (I presume this means subtly undermining someone by backhanded compliments and the like - and if I'm wrong maybe you could explain what you understand by it?) in order to get a person to agree to have sex with you when they otherwise might not choose to is manipulative and possibly sociopathic behaviour?

You see this is the thing I find weird about some of the anti-PUA stuff, and lets be clear I'm not fond of it myself.
If some-one can be manipulated into bed by being slightly insulted and demeaned by someone aren't you implying they lack any real agency themselves. If thats the case I would be more worried for them and less worried about PUA because its not like AFAIK that PUA is teaching anything new its just teaching lads to act like a certain type of guy who has been around forever

Edit: I do agree with your posts though

Chancer3001

Neighing isn't telling lies about yourself.

Negging isn't pretending you're rich. Look at my example on the previous page.

It's a teeny tiny bit

volchitsa

Chancer3001 wrote: »

It's so you don't seem over eager.

Over eagerness is not attractive ya see...

I suspect we're having a male/female discussion here that explains why PUA appeals to men, and only works on women who haven't come across it before and maybe don't have much emotional awareness. You don't have to put someone down in order to avoid appearing "over eager". Honest. :cool:

Chancer3001

Negging isn't putting somebody down.

And if you're not being over eager you need never use negging.

Anybody who practices pua regularly probabaly never negs.

Pua attracts to many women too, the female version of it in a book called "the rules" sold millions.

Pua works on everybody, both sexes. It's just about making yourself more fun and more sociable. Not about taking people down a peg

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

It doesn't matter what YOU would do. That video has had 21,000 views. That was the first video I came upon when I typed in "negging" so at least some men must be following his advice. There's thousands of them there. All falls under PUA.

I really dont see your point. I'm not defending all negging.

You refute all criticism of it including criticism of Julien BLanc. You haven't even tried PUA, have you? You've only watched a few videos on Youtube. In fairness, what would you know in that case?

Again, I really have to wonder what's the point if men on here are defending JB.

Please point to where I've refuted criticism of Julien Blanc, I've actually done the opposite on several occasions. You're making strawman arguments all over the place.

So you're claiming you have to have done something now in order to have an opinion on it? I've also said that a lot of PUA techniques I read about I'd already been doing. Does that mean I'm a dick because I was doing these things already?

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

It's so you don't seem over eager.

Over eagerness is not attractive ya see...

Ugh....is it the same as that messing that does be going on about texting young wans aswell....that bs does my head in now if I'm honest...this could be because I'm too old for boards (mid 20s)...but Jesus I dunno would I bother with anyone who's into that messing about!!!
Couldn't be dealing with trying to second guess people at my age

volchitsa

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Neighing isn't telling lies about yourself.

Negging isn't pretending you're rich. Look at my example on the previous page.

It's a teeny tiny bit

Teeny tiny bit what?

As I understand it, (and I read your example) it is not pretending you're rich, it's pretending the other person is poorer (or uglier, or less fashionable or stupider) than you.

It's pretty much the same thing, it really is.

Chancer3001

Lol, what?

Did you actually dad my example about the t shirt?

Has nothing to do with money!!!

It's so you're not over eager. That's it. And it's less than 1% of what pua is about

Chancer3001

tomwaterford wrote: »

Ugh....is it the same as that messing that does be going on about texting young wans aswell....that bs does my head in now if I'm honest...this could be because I'm too old for boards (mid 20s)...but Jesus I dunno would I bother with anyone who's into that messing about!!!
Couldn't be dealing with trying to second guess people at my age

If a girl says to her friend, oh don't text him back for a while, you don't wanna seem too eager.

There's a reason she's saying it, and yes it gets less important the older you get.

Eventually you never need to neg

volchitsa

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Lol, what?

Did you actually dad my example about the t shirt?

Has nothing to do with money!!!

It's so you're not over eager. That's it. And it's less than 1% of what pua is about

You're missing the point. If she was just being a prick, that's her problem, and deffo not important.

If she is using it as a strategy to get you to do something (whether that is go out with her or get you to buy her a beer, or paint the living room for her (I'm thinking long term relationships here) then that is manipulation, and personally I'd run a mile. And I tell my own kids the same thing. I admit I learned that the hard way though.

TheBeardedLady

RDM_83 again wrote: »

You see this is the thing I find weird about some of the anti-PUA stuff, and lets be clear I'm not fond of it myself.
If some-one can be manipulated into bed by being slightly insulted and demeaned by someone aren't you implying they lack any real agency themselves. If thats the case I would be more worried for them and less worried about PUA because its not like AFAIK that PUA is teaching anything new its just teaching lads to act like a certain type of guy who has been around forever

Manipulation of adults happens though. If I went out tonight and purposely picked out a guy I believed was shy and insecure and insulted him then decided I'd go home with him and he obliged, where would you place the blame? Obviously it was up to the guy to come home with me but it doesn't mean I was playing fair either. There was some degree of manipulation there.

The video I posted talked about making beautiful women feel bad because beautiful women are innately insecure, according to the video. Of course the woman has the ability to refuse but purposely picking on a woman you believe to be lacking in the confidence department is manipulation.

This tactic wouldn't work on many women and selectively choosing those women to try that stunt on is manipulation.

Foxtrol

volchitsa wrote: »

Not sure about how useful a word like "evil" is, but would you agree that negging (I presume this means subtly undermining someone by backhanded compliments and the like - and if I'm wrong maybe you could explain what you understand by it?) in order to get a person to agree to have sex with you when they otherwise might not choose to is manipulative and possibly sociopathic behaviour?

It would be manipulative but in no way more manipulative or sociopathic than changing your appearance with the same goal.

I think you're overplaying the power of negging if you believe it can make someone have sex with you when they wouldn't otherwise.

Chancer3001

She wasn't being a prick. She told me my t shirt was nice. That was nice.

But by not just giving me compliment after compliment it would make her seem less needy and thus more attractive.

Again, stop being so hung up on negging. It's a teeny bit of pua. Minuscule.

Foxtrol

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Also its Saturday night, and the busiest thread is the one arguing about PUA, there has to be at least some irony in that :P

I'm in a different time zone so I have an excuse!! :cool:

volchitsa

RDM_83 again wrote: »

If some-one can be manipulated into bed by being slightly insulted and demeaned by someone aren't you implying they lack any real agency themselves.

No, it's not that they lack agency, it's that they lack a certain amount of self confidence that means that they believe it's possible that what the person is implying may be true. Sadly that lack of confidence is quite common among teenage girls and young women, and is constantly reinforced in the media etc.

Chancer3001

You're using the word manipulation like its a horrible thing.

I lift weights to look more attractive (1 of the reasons anyways)

Is that manipulating people.

Sometimes I pretend a girls story is interesting, EVEN WHEN IT ISNT. That's manipulating too. I bought a girl a drink lately too. Purely to get brownie points.

What a weirdo!!

Chancer3001

tomwaterford wrote: »

But what of us who came to the conclusion all this was BS around the age of 14....look it...I'm for going out having the crack on a night out...chatting away etc...but does it not seem just like too much effort trying to remember relatively pointless rules trying to second guess evert

Having the craic and chatting away is what pua is alllll about Tom.

It's just making your chat make you more attractive is what pua works on.

Some times you chat to a girl and she loves you. Other times, she'd hate you.

What you say and how you present yourself is what makes you attractive.

Foxtrol

volchitsa wrote: »

How does a strategy of undermining someone else give the person confidence though? It can only, IMO, be by deliberately making the other person feel bad about themselves.

Like I say, I wouldn't say it's evil, but I'd say that sort of behaviour is not healthy. You see it in work situations too, but in my own view, using it in personal relationships is really very crummy. I can't see how I could like anyone who did that to me. The only way it could possibly work is if I got taken in by it.

It's a bit like you're saying if I told you I was rich and had a great job, so as to get enough confidence to talk to me. That relationship can only last until the truth comes out - so if all I want is to have sex with you, then my lies are fine.

But it says a lot about the person who sees relationships in that way.

I'm talking about the strategy of PUA techniques giving the person confidence, negging being a tiny tiny element.

I fully agree it doesn't last long-term but it could get you into a situation where you'd never get to talk to a person who'd you could be perfect for.

TheBeardedLady

Please point to where I've refuted criticism of Julien Blanc, I've actually done the opposite on several occasions. You're making strawman arguments all over the place.

You've played what he's done down and thanked posts that have done the same.

So you're claiming you have to have done something now in order to have an opinion on it? I've also said that a lot of PUA techniques I read about I'd already been doing. Does that mean I'm a dick because I was doing these things already?

Don't be ridiculous. By the way, I haven't once called PUA users (who don't use negging tactics) dicks.

Chancer3001

Yeah I found the same, when I read up on pua at the start, I found a load of the things I already did, and my friends already did were recommended.

Other things were not recommended.

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

If a girl says to her friend, oh don't text him back for a while, you don't wanna seem too eager.

There's a reason she's saying it, and yes it gets less important the older you get.

Eventually you never need to neg

What of does of us who came to conclusion at the age of 14 that all this rule about texting etc were BS

Look it...I'm all for going out having the crack chatting away with wans who are up for a laugh etc on a night out...but arseing around trying to remember rules etc and trying to second gusess what each person means would take the crack outta it for me anyway like

But what of us who came to the conclusion all this was BS around the age of 14....look it...I'm for going out having the crack on a night out...chatting away etc...but does it not seem just like too much effort trying to remember relatively pointless rules trying to second guess every person meant....Llike why bother lying as anyone I've ever seen at the pua just seems miserable after a few months

Chancer3001

I assume you meant to post something else there Tom.

One eyed Jack

Chancer3001 wrote: »

No. It teaches you how to be attractive.

Not all girls go for dickheads. Some do. Lots don't.

It teaches you how to be attractive to girls that don't go for dickheads then?

Why do you need PUA at all then if you're not a dickhead? You're already attractive to girls that aren't attracted to dickheads!

I've 'studied'* numerous PUA methods (and one of the reasons I purposely avoided this thread up to now is because I learned it's adherents are relentless in their belief in the various methods, like a football fan who won't be told their team are sh1te), and I've seen nothing in them that isn't actually working off the assumption that the 'student' is already a hopeless numpty with not a whole pile of intelligence, that they need to be instructed in how to interact with the object of their desire.

These PUA methods also make presumptions about how a girl is supposed to react, totally ignoring the fact that every girl is an individual, in just the same way as the 'student' is an individual, and I think that's what the 'student' misses out on - the fact that if they had more respect for themselves, and more respect for women generally (because PUA IS mainly aimed at heterosexual men), the fact that they have some respect for themselves instantly makes them more attractive and boosts their confidence, and it's real confidence that makes a person attractive.

Someone who's trying to fake it just makes themselves even more unattractive, women aren't stupid either, and 'studying' these PUA guys that are trying to sell you something you feel you need, you're just making their job easier for them, and harder on yourself.

PUA is a 'system' for people who don't like to leave anything to risk, they want to have foreknowledge of everything so they don't risk making themselves look foolish. The only way you'll ever actually gain confidence is by making your own mistakes and learning from your own experiences, as opposed to trying to apply systems learned by others. Why do you think all these PUAs have sprung up in the last 30 years or thereabouts?

Because there is no one 'system' that actually works. It's merely down to each individual to learn for themselves. You'll hardly bring a girl home and ask her to hold on, you'll be back in a minute, just want to remind yourself what Owen Cook (that's Tyler Durden to you) has to say about what to do in this situation!

What happens when you're presented with a scenario where you're introverted and lacking in sexual confidence, and only twenty minutes earlier you had all this confidence and bravado, and this girl is expecting a good time? You're sh1t out of luck, and you're even more sh1t out of ideas, and your confidence is gonna take a woeful kicking, deservedly so IMO because it's the only way you'll ever learn that attractiveness starts from within and isn't only skin deep.

Foxtrol

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

You've played what he's done down and thanked posts that have done the same.

I've called him disparaging names earlier on the thread and I don't believe I ever once mentioned him positively. Please feel free to point to one of my posts if you can find one.

Don't be ridiculous. By the way, I haven't once called PUA users (who don't use negging tactics) dicks.

This is what you posted:

You haven't even tried PUA, have you? You've only watched a few videos on Youtube. In fairness, what would you know in that case?

You clearly questioned my ability to defend PUA techniques because I wasn't actively involved.

Maybe not dicks but there's a tone from many posters, including yourself, that you frown on someone who uses PUA techniques. Does this extend to people who naturally use those techniques?

Chancer3001

Not all guys who aren't dickheads are attractive.

Probabaly the majority are not.

And it's unreasonable to assume you can "can" enough material to last you an entire evening of conversation. Learning routines would probabaly last you about 5 minutes.

It's all the rest that's beneficial. How to act, what to do, what not to do.

Most people are probabaly already doing some of both.

TheBeardedLady

I've called him disparaging names earlier on the thread and I don't believe I ever once mentioned him positively. Please feel free to point to one of my posts if you can find one.

You felt his behaviour wasn't worthy of "outrage". Remember?

You clearly questioned my ability to defend PUA techniques because I wasn't actively involved.

I did indeed. How do you know how effective it is if you haven't tried it.

You then went off on one about how I'd consider you a dickhead because you interacted with women in the past in a normal, human fashion.

Weird.

volchitsa

One eyed Jack wrote: »

These PUA methods also make presumptions about how a girl is supposed to react, totally ignoring the fact that every girl is an individual, in just the same way as the 'student' is an individual, and I think that's what the 'student' misses out on - the fact that if they had more respect for themselves, and more respect for women generally (because PUA IS mainly aimed at heterosexual men), the fact that they have some respect for themselves instantly makes them more attractive and boosts their confidence, and it's real confidence that makes a person attractive.

Someone who's trying to fake it just makes themselves even more unattractive, women aren't stupid either, and 'studying' these PUA guys that are trying to sell you something you feel you need, you're just making their job easier for them, and harder on yourself.

Yep, this is exactly the problem I have with the whole idea - it's based on treating women as animated objects for which you can learn what buttons to press to get whatever reaction you want.

That can't work, not for any length of time. So if all the guy wants is sex, it may work for a while, but not for any long term relationship. Actually not long term at all. Once he gets to be known for that, or just gets a little older, such an approach is going to come across as seriously creepy.

Chancer3001

Different pua "gurus" teach different types of pua.

A guy called Gambler would teach a way that's designed around maintaining a lasting relationship.


And it's not "every woman is the same", it's just basic psychology of what other people find attractive. It works for "most"

Most women find needy guys unattractive.

Most people see fun, popular guys as more attractive.

Most girls like a guy who would make them laugh or who is interesting.

It's not saying all women are the same. It's just giving you tools to make yourself more attractive

DoYouEvenLift

Chancer3001 wrote: »

If a girl says to her friend, oh don't text him back for a while, you don't wanna seem too eager.

There's a reason she's saying it, and yes it gets less important the older you get.

Eventually you never need to neg

Lol, this is why calling girls to make plans is always better than texting. Pretty much everyone has their phones on them nowadays, anyone who isn't a teenager that does the wait to text games is fooling themselves because most people would see through that bullsh!t. Exceptions are if the person apologises for taking so long to reply with a reason because then they're letting you know they were genuinely busy and have respect for you...acting like adults basically

Chancer3001

Then again, if you ring too often you seem needy. Or too eager.

Women are tricky!!

tomwaterford

volchitsa wrote: »

Yep, this is exactly the problem I have with the whole idea - it's based on treating women as animated objects for which you can learn what buttons to press to get whatever reaction you want.

That can't work, not for any length of time. So if all the guy wants is sex, it may work for a while, but not for any long term relationship. Actually not long term at all. Once he gets to be known for that, or just gets a little older, such an approach is going to come across as seriously creepy.

Anyone ive ever seen to give it a right go at it ...just seems miserable to me anyway after six or seven months at it...it's like doing drugs to some on a night out (not a fair comparison maybe !!!)...but it leads to being a crutch to lean on ..which just get used more and more in increasing desperation...great at the start...but always catches up in you!!

*just from my own observations

TheBeardedLady

Foxtrol wrote: »

Maybe not dicks but there's a tone from many posters, including yourself, that you frown on someone who uses PUA techniques. Does this extend to people who naturally use those techniques?

A tone? I've stated before I wouldn't be interested in a fella tried to chat me up with techniques he'd learned from Youtube. I'm being honest. If you don't like that, then tough, frankly.

A fella interacting with me as he normally would is obviously not a turn off.

TheBeardedLady

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Then again, if you ring too often you seem needy. Or too eager.

Women are tricky!!

The hivemind, eh? What are we like!

Chancer3001

tomwaterford wrote: »

Anyone ive ever seen to give it a right go at it ...just seems miserable to me anyway after six or seven months at it...it's like doing drugs to some on a night out (not a fair comparison maybe !!!)...but it leads to being a crutch to lean on ..which just get used more and more in increasing desperation...great at the start...but always catches up in you!!

*just from my own observations

They weren't doing it right Tom. They weren't doing it right at all

Chancer3001

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

The hivemind, eh? What are we like!

Don't worry, men can be the exact same.

Too many texts, lose interest.

TheBeardedLady

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Don't worry, men can be the exact same.

Too many texts, lose interest.

"Too many" has a negative connotations.


One person's "two many" is another person's "not enough". People are different. A fact PUA fails to recognise.