Belmond Grand Hibernian

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

http://www.brightonbelle.com/


no yellow ends here

Because it will have the new spec lights like the 345s.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I believe it's to do with "grandfather rights" as it's a restoration vehicle. You don't see the Flying Scotsman going around with a yellow smokebox either.

There are no "grandfather rights" in relation to yellow ends, simply exemptions which only steam locos enjoy and not diesel, that is why some mainline registered diesels require yellow ends when they may have never had them originally.

The Brighton Belle did previously have yellow ends so even if grandfather rights applied they wouldn't quality as already stated.





The Brighton Belle isn't exempt from the group standard, but it is to receive modern lights which meet the new standards I mentioned previously meaning it won't need the yellow warning panels.

savagethegoat

GM228 wrote: »

Because it will have the new spec lights like the 345s.



There are no "grandfather rights" in relation to yellow ends, simply exemptions which only steam locos enjoy and not diesel, that is why some mainline registered diesels require yellow ends when they may have never had them originally.

The Brighton Belle did previously have yellow ends so even if grandfather rights applied they wouldn't quality as already stated.





The Brighton Belle isn't exempt from the group standard, but it is to receive modern lights which meet the new standards I mentioned previously meaning it won't need the yellow warning panels.

I already said that

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

I already said that

Simply backing you up and adding further to it, you may have missed my "as already stated" comment

GM228

August 30th is confirmed start date for the Grand Hibernian.

Del.Monte

I'm sure that the question has already been asked - and answered somewhere in the thread - why will the train not be traversing the most scenic route in the country?

metrovick001

Ohh God no.

Del.Monte

metrovick001 wrote: »

Ohh God no.

Is that it?

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm sure that the question has already been asked - and answered somewhere in the thread - why will the train not be traversing the most scenic route in the country?

Because it closed in 1960.

Del.Monte

Seriously, is there a technical or other reason that the Dublin/Rosslare line is not included?

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Seriously, is there a technical or other reason that the Dublin/Rosslare line is not included?

You'll have to write them a strongly worded letter about it.

I don't know, maybe it's more about the onboard luxury, the attractions at the stops etc. rather than what's outside the windows.

LXFlyer

Surely a private operator is free to choose where it wants to operate a tour?

Del.Monte

lxflyer wrote: »

Surely a private operator is free to choose where it wants to operate a tour?

Did I say otherwise? I was asking if anybody knew the reason that the SE line was not included.

Jamie2k9

Going to guess that it's a week and they are going to get as much as possible into that week. The WRC is what helps the current routing.

Would love to see it on Waterford line as well but the routing is set for 2016 and 2017.

Now if they were able to swing a transfer over S Wexford line it would open up a second route option without having to go backwards to get to a place.

Anyone what number of coaches will operate, the test is a unit of 7 (inc GV).

whisky_galore

These railtours are aimed at 'normals' and not the bashing fraternity.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyone what number of coaches will operate, the test is a unit of 7 (inc GV).

Full set will be 10 including the EGV.

goingnowhere

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Going to guess that it's a week and they are going to get as much as possible into that week. The WRC is what helps the current routing.

Would love to see it on Waterford line as well but the routing is set for 2016 and 2017.

Now if they were able to swing a transfer over S Wexford line it would open up a second route option without having to go backwards to get to a place.

Anyone what number of coaches will operate, the test is a unit of 7 (inc GV).

Should be 10 coaches in full when in service, which is another reason it can't do the DSER, be too long for all but Wexford platform, cause issues with passing loops not being long enough, too heavy for the DSER at over 360 tons for a passenger train, plus 201 class locomotives aren't allowed in passenger service south of Bray

Del.Monte

goingnowhere wrote: »

Should be 10 coaches in full when in service, which is another reason it can't do the DSER, be too long for all but Wexford platform, cause issues with passing loops not being long enough, too heavy for the DSER at over 360 tons for a passenger train, plus 201 class locomotives aren't allowed in passenger service south of Bray

At that rate it won't be long before the SE line goes 'freight only' and then into mothballs - followed by a Greenway. Talk about making things inflexible. It's a pity Belmond or somebody like them wouldn't takeover the entire railway - it's clearly too much bother for CIE/IE.

Del.Monte

Just looking at the Wanderer's pics of the test run and it occurred to me that it's a pity they didn't put in decent drop-down windows in the doors. One of my many pet hates with the Mk IIIs, but I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons why this couldn't have been done.

goingnowhere

Del.Monte wrote: »

At that rate it won't be long before the SE line goes 'freight only' and then into mothballs - followed by a Greenway. Talk about making things inflexible. It's a pity Belmond or somebody like them wouldn't takeover the entire railway - it's clearly too much bother for CIE/IE.

Well if you are happy to blow the subsidy on shinny stuff to keep the trainspotters happy, go right ahead. Best of luck trying to fix as the loops are too short, Greystones is around 210m long and you need 250m to fill the Grand Hibernian as they want to run the longest Mk3 consist ever run in Ireland.

Belmond would probably have been told to go to Rosslare a max of 8 coaches + loco would be the limit which fits and is just under the weight limit for a passenger train on the DSER. A Mk4 set or even a 9 car ICR would fit in the loops on the DSER, but not platforms, to be fair only a handful of stations can cope with them.

Extend a pile of loops, change the signalling, increase the axle load limit and track maintenance regime, not happening

Belmond always had its focus on Cork/Kerry/Galway and Belfast, never was a mention about Waterford, Rosslare or Sligo even before they bought the Mk3's

goingnowhere

Del.Monte wrote: »

Just looking at the Wanderer's pics of the test run and it occurred to me that it's a pity they didn't put in decent drop-down windows in the doors. One of my many pet hates with the Mk IIIs, but I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons why this couldn't have been done.

The AC needs a sealed coach to work, also you don't want people hanging out the window

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3731132/Pictured-Rail-passenger-24-decapitated-leaned-train-window-Gatwick-Express.html

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

Should be 10 coaches in full when in service, which is another reason it can't do the DSER, be too long for all but Wexford platform

Platform vs train lenght isn't an issue as MkIIIs have grandfather rights on the Rosslare line for stoping at short platforms. And the train won't fit on most of the platforms it will be calling at anyway.

goingnowhere wrote: »

issues with passing loops not being long enough

Loops don't matter as anything it would be crossing would be well within the lenght and would use the loop rather than the Grand Hibernian. Same will apply when 27 wagon liners are cleared to Balina in a few months. The longer train remains outside the loop until the shorter train is in the loop. Problems would however occur for run arounds and the top and tail option would probably be required.

goingnowhere wrote: »

too heavy for the DSER at over 360 tons for a passenger train

Yes weight is an issue under the current rules, but the train is only slightly over the limit by about 32 tons, however that can easily be changed and allowed for the same way weight limits are being changed for the 27 wagon liners.

The lower weight limits were put in place for passenger trains on the Rosslare line years ago due to the infrastructure and gradients near the likes of Rathdrum to take account of the pulling power of 121/141/181s and 071s.

The infrastructure has been upgraded and this train will be 201 hauled so I don't see it being an issue.

goingnowhere wrote: »

plus 201 class locomotives aren't allowed in passenger service south of Bray

201s are already cleared to Rosslare and have worked at least one passenger service to the Europort. They have also worked freight to Wexford. They are cleared to operate "normally" to Arklow which includes passenger trains and they have worked push-pulls to Wicklow or Arklow (can't remember which) on specials. They can operate past Arklow with special dispensation or in an emergency and again this restriction was put in place in 1995 when the infrastructure was in poor condition. They could easily be cleared for normal operation all the way to Rosslare if needed.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Just looking at the Wanderer's pics of the test run and it occurred to me that it's a pity they didn't put in decent drop-down windows in the doors. One of my many pet hates with the Mk IIIs, but I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons why this couldn't have been done.

There's really no need for drop down windows with power operated doors.

goingnowhere wrote: »

The AC needs a sealed coach to work, also you don't want people hanging out the window

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3731132/Pictured-Rail-passenger-24-decapitated-leaned-train-window-Gatwick-Express.html

The end doors don't need sealed windows for AC to work, (the internal saloon doors do that), look at MkIIs for example or UK MkIIIs or even the MkIII dining cars at one end only, they IE MkIIIs only had half drop windows as they didn't need full drops because there was no need to reach out to open the doors. Also look at 29000s which have opening windows and AC.

savagethegoat

Del.Monte wrote: »

Just looking at the Wanderer's pics of the test run and it occurred to me that it's a pity they didn't put in decent drop-down windows in the doors. One of my many pet hates with the Mk IIIs, but I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons why this couldn't have been done.

a backward step. didn't you hear about the guy a few days ago in the UK? One of our own killed due to a drop-down window,

Del.Monte

savagethegoat wrote: »

a backward step. didn't you hear about the guy a few days ago in the UK? One of our own killed due to a drop-down window,

Oh dear, there have been drop-down windows since the dawn of the railway age and now we are so helpless that we must not be able to open windows. :rolleyes:

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Oh dear, there have been drop-down windows since the dawn of the railway age and now we are so helpless that we must not be able to open windows. :rolleyes:

Oh it's simply awful that air conditioned mkIIIs don't have outdated impractical features like clerestory roofs, torpedo ventilators or those drop down windows with the leather strap.

Del.Monte

whisky_galore wrote: »

Oh it's simply awful that air conditioned mkIIIs don't have outdated impractical features like clerestory roofs, torpedo ventilators or those drop down windows with the leather strap.

I know it's the silly season, but what is so mad about having windows that open far enough down in a door that you can put your head out (not half your body like the UK enthusiast) without having to contort your body. You obviously don't remember how airless the MkIIIs used to become in service.

end of the road

GM228 wrote: »

Platform vs train lenght isn't an issue as MkIIIs have grandfather rights on the Rosslare line for stoping at short platforms.

correct. i was on mk3s deputizing for the normal mark 2 sets on a couple of occasions. pushpulls mostly but 1 normal mark 3 set operated.

GM228 wrote: »

201s are already cleared to Rosslare and have worked at least one passenger service to the Europort.

when was that?

savagethegoat wrote: »

a backward step. didn't you hear about the guy a few days ago in the UK? One of our own killed due to a drop-down window,

a tragic incident but that isn't a reason not to fit such windows.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

I know it's the silly season, but what is so mad about having windows that open far enough down in a door that you can put your head out (not half your body like the UK enthusiast) without having to contort your body. You obviously don't remember how airless the MkIIIs used to become in service.

As a matter of fact I do remember.

What does it matter? That class of punter will hardly be induging in 'flailing' and you're unlikely to travel in them anyway.

Del.Monte

whisky_galore wrote: »

As a matter of fact I do remember.

What does it matter? That class of punter will hardly be induging in 'flailing' and you're unlikely to travel in them anyway.

The class of punter that likes to drop down a window for a look out or a breath of fresh air - time will tell and I just think it's a pity that it wasn't done. As for whether I would ever travel on them - not that it's any of your damn business - why would I. A trip on the Welsh Highland or the Ffestiniog would beat any Irish trip hands down for a tiny fraction of the price.

savagethegoat

the only reason for having drop down windows was so you could reach out to turn the door handle. Very outdated.

metrovick001

Moving swiftly along (no pun intended).....the Grand Hibernian train passed Stacumny bridge at 08:27 on its southbound run on Friday 12-Aug-16.

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

correct. i was on mk3s deputizing for the normal mark 2 sets on a couple of occasions. pushpulls mostly but 1 normal mark 3 set operated.

Standard MkIIIs worked to Rosslare on several occasions on both regular services and specials.

end of the road wrote: »

when was that?

Late 90s/early 00s, due to engineering works the early Rosslare service was starting at Wicklow, the 071 failed to start and 219 was sent from Shelton Abbey to work the train to Rosslare and back to Dublin under special permission.

Prior to that in 1996 216 also visited the Europort for gauge clearance albeit hauled by a 141.

GM228

Close up of the bar.

end of the road

savagethegoat wrote: »

the only reason for having drop down windows was so you could reach out to turn the door handle. Very outdated.

they are not outdated at all. AC will never beat an opening window.

GM228 wrote: »

Standard MkIIIs worked to Rosslare on several occasions on both regular services and specials.

interesting that it happened rather a bit. i had assumed it was a one off. i knew pushpulls operated a good few times as i caught them a couple of times when standing in for the mk2s.

GM228 wrote: »

Late 90s/early 00s, due to engineering works the early Rosslare service was starting at Wicklow, the 071 failed to start and 219 was sent from Shelton Abbey to work the train to Rosslare and back to Dublin under special permission.

Prior to that in 1996 216 also visited the Europort for gauge clearance albeit hauled by a 141.

thanks.

Shamrock776

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Going to guess that it's a week and they are going to get as much as possible into that week. The WRC is what helps the current routing.

Would love to see it on Waterford line as well but the routing is set for 2016 and 2017.

Now if they were able to swing a transfer over S Wexford line it would open up a second route option without having to go backwards to get to a place.

Anyone what number of coaches will operate, the test is a unit of 7 (inc GV).

You are in luck!!!

Waterford added to schedule for this year as they wont be cleared for the full route plan in NI before next year at the earliest but not even certain.

Thats the word on grapevine......expect there are other people in the know who can confirm or dismiss it.

GM228

Shamrock776 wrote: »

You are in luck!!!

Waterford added to schedule for this year as they wont be cleared for the full route plan in NI before next year at the earliest but not even certain.

Thats the word on grapevine......expect there are other people in the know who can confirm or dismiss it.

Indeed it has to make up for the missed day lost due to not being allowed past Belfast.

Expect a complete route trial to commence on Monday utilising the full 10 car set.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Indeed it has to make up for the missed day lost due to not being allowed past Belfast.

Expect a complete route trial to commence on Monday utilising the full 10 car set.

Assume it won't stay overnight?

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Assume it won't stay overnight?

Might do, 216's TPWS system's interaction with the NIR signals has to be fully tested as part of the run.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Assume it won't stay overnight?

No it won't be staying overnight.

The_Wanderer

The Belmond Grand Hibernian visited Killarney on Tuesday 16th August while on a trial from Dublin.
Click http://smu.gs/2aQJPna to view all the images.

Salmon Leap

GM228 wrote: »

August 30th is confirmed start date for the Grand Hibernian.

Can someone post a link to the timings for the 30th?

GM228

Salmon Leap wrote: »

Can someone post a link to the timings for the 30th?

Times not yet confined but revised schedule as follows.

Tuesday
Afternoon Heuston to Cork
Evening Cork to Charleville (via Thurles)

Wednesday
Morning Charleville to Cork
Afternoon Cork to Killarney
Evening Killarney to Thurles

Thursday
Morning Thurles to Limerick
Late morning Limerick to Galway (via WRC)
Evening Galway to Athlone

Friday
Morning Athlone to Westport
Evening Westport to Roscommon

Saturday
Morning Roscommon to Heuston
Afternoon Heuston to Belfast
Evening Belfast to Dundalk

Sunday
Morning Dundalk to Waterford
Evening Waterford to Bagnalstown

Monday
Morning Bagnalstown to Heuston

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Times not yet confined but revised schedule as follows.

Tuesday
Afternoon Heuston to Cork
Evening Cork to Charleville (via Thurles)

Wednesday
Morning Charleville to Cork
Afternoon Cork to Killarney
Evening Killarney to Thurles

Thursday
Morning Thurles to Limerick
Late morning Limerick to Galway (via WRC)
Evening Galway to Athlone

Friday
Morning Athlone to Westport
Evening Westport to Roscommon

Saturday
Morning Roscommon to Heuston
Afternoon Heuston to Belfast
Evening Belfast to Dundalk

Sunday
Morning Dundalk to Waterford
Evening Waterford to Bagnalstown

Monday
Morning Bagnalstown to Heuston

Thanks for posting was only thinking about asking if you knew the routing.

Bagnalstown-Heuston expect that to be an 08.15 start to avoid Heuston peak and trains cross at 08.40 there. Would assume platforms set up in Wateford is what's causing it to do a 40 minute journey to Bagnaistown. Would of been nice if it was using the long platform, probally the only platform on the newtork that could take the full size of just about at 371.2m

Salmon Leap

Thanks. Hoping to photograph her in tne Hazelhatch area on the first run.

metrovick001

215 & 10 MK3s on Dundalk-Connolly trial run passing through Gormonston on Thursday 18-Aug-16.

afatbollix

How long is it going to be delayed in starting. A person I know was to be on it this week and it was canceled. Going via car now and got a huge discount off another tour from Belmond.

Jamie2k9

afatbollix wrote: »

How long is it going to be delayed in starting. A person I know was to be on it this week and it was canceled. Going via car now and got a huge discount off another tour from Belmond.

Next week

Hilly Bill

Just leaving Connolly.

Montpelier Hill

Happened to see the belmond hibernIan at Heuston today, was very impressed with the finish, particularly liked the last carriage, the observation carriage, which had a window replacing the back door of the train.

Captain Chaos

VSOE in action and a run around in Kildare. 216 looks very classing in the Belmond livery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB1Z3oCqscs

dowlingm

Great video. I wonder if Belmond had gotten a 610x that it might have been an even better observation car with the driver windscreen. Even then it's going to spend half its time facing the power given the preponderance of run-around over wyeing on IE/NIR.

Still no automatic LC at Buttevant?

the Belmond set doesn't have to show UIC numbers?