IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

michael999999

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

The answer is in the question folks......
.....its an FG/FF coalition government !

I would include Labour in it as well though.

Roll on 2016.

Time to set up an envelope making factory, there's lots of money to be made if that prediction comes true!

Chucken

VinLieger wrote: »

You would be surprised what happens at election time, I'm not saying id be for a FF/FG violation but unless the left fix their fragmentation issues they could easily snap up a surprise majority through preference votes

Was that intentional?

Pocoyo

Six one news headlines,

1. Bord gais underestimated water meter installation by 100 million euro.

2. Government says it has addressed concerns regarding IW (clip of FG spokesman saying) 'The water charges issue has been resolved its time to focus on the economy,in the new year people will realize That they have more money in their pockets'

3. Number of people homeless in the capital rises to its highest point in 30 years.


Chancers....

ThunbergsAreGo

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

FG would be very shrewd to call an early general election and get out of Government asap. No other party can do better, there is no way the country can afford what people are wanting/protesting for, so they may as well hand it to someone else and let them get the blame. SF in government would be hilarious, although costly to everyone.

I want to profit from an expected election winning budget next year though :cool:

LostinKildare

gladrags wrote: »

There was too much of a mad dog frenzy going on.

Pumped up by the Sindo in particular,and FF,FG and Labour,who obviously had a lot to gain politically,by the demise of SF.

After a while the penny dropped,and a few commentators made reference to the fact that politicians were not "judge and jury".

It reminded me of the dark ages,rush to judgement,by the mob.

Further to this, another thing that got NO ATTENTION, as far as I can see, was the spectacle of FG TD Regina Doherty, at the right hand of Enda Kenny, standing up in the Dail and saying she had been told the names of 8 accused pedophiles who had been moved to the Republic, but she had decided against naming them in the Dail because she was afraid for her own safety.

It is absolutely unbelievable that she would even consider publicly naming people as pedophiles based on 2nd hand, uninvestigated, and very possibly unreliable, politically motivated, and/or baseless information. Jesus, aside from the complete disregard for the legal process, does she know what happens to people that have the tag "pedophile" hung on them?? What have we come to that it is not obvious that this is very very dangerous and wrong?

This is the kind of dangerous ****wit we have in our government.

hawkelady

I was originally on the fence regarding Irish water but as each day passes I get more frustrated with the government . I'm one of those "accidental landlords" and all of a sudden I'm expected to be a debt collector for the government !! They can F off if they think I'll be doing that !!

I also thought that the media were independent on reporting news but today I hear you can get badly burnt from touching the front of a car !!! Now even I know that is lies , probably to scare people that don't know any better !!

I had no intention of marching on dec 10 but I'll be booking in my day off from my full time job first thing in the morning.

Pocoyo

hawkelady wrote: »

I was originally on the fence regarding Irish water but as each day passes I get more frustrated with the government . I'm one of those "accidental landlords" and all of a sudden I'm expected to be a debt collector for the government !! They can F off if they think I'll be doing that !!

I also thought that the media were independent on reporting news but today I hear you can get badly burnt from touching the front of a car !!! Now even I know that is lies , probably to scare people that don't know any better !!

I had no intention of marching on dec 10 but I'll be booking in my day off from my full time job first thing in the morning.

I was shocked by the media also and to think i thought the Corrib gas line protesters were militant eco warriors ffs some one in RTE should be strung up for that, but i bought it at the time....Never again!

That Corrib protest was incredibly noble its a shame i and others didnt get behind it.

Sobko

If they idiots running the country did not make so many book keeping errors we could probably do away with a lot of taxes.

It's the unelected permanent government which needs a total overall too.

Banjo String

One things for sure, with the rise of social media, and sites like Facebook, Twitter, or even on here, whoever the next Govt happens to be made up from would do well to remember that the public are a lot more savvy than they would assume, and a lot harder to manipulate now through the mainstream media, be it online or in Hard copy editions.

If this govt has to go, and it's looking increasingly likely, it will be partially due to the revelations published on social media.

The Indo (even more than RTÉ) deserve a boycott from the public, their water protests, and anti water meter protests coverage have been absolutely shameful to put it mildly.

I'd say uncle Dennis is fuming this evening, the cunning plan isn't being implemented as flawlessly as he'd hoped.

That bollox should be ostracised, and his citizenship revoked.

Red Pepper

Sobko wrote: »

It's the unelected permanent government which needs a total overall too.

Exactly. Permanent government are the real self serving cowboys.

dxhound2005

LostinKildare wrote: »

Further to this, another thing that got NO ATTENTION, as far as I can see, was the spectacle of FG TD Regina Doherty, at the right hand of Enda Kenny, standing up in the Dail and saying she had been told the names of 8 accused pedophiles who had been moved to the Republic, but she had decided against naming them in the Dail because she was afraid for her own safety.

It is absolutely unbelievable that she would even consider publicly naming people as pedophiles based on 2nd hand, uninvestigated, and very possibly unreliable, politically motivated, and/or baseless information. Jesus, aside from the complete disregard for the legal process, does she know what happens to people that have the tag "pedophile" hung on them?? What have we come to that it is not obvious that this is very very dangerous and wrong?

This is the kind of dangerous ****wit we have in our government.

I don't see the connection with water but seeing as you brought it up. Everybody's favourite journalist on AH (when he was doing stories on the Gardai and GSOC) has reported in today's Sunday Times that Joe Reilly, a big name in Sinn Fein in Meath, where Regina Doherty also lives has given details of the IRA abusers to the Gardai. I would be afraid of Joe myself, given his chequered past. Maybe she has a mole in the Gardai, like Mooney has.

The full article is not in this link but further on it says that while IRA members who give information on The Disappeared are guaranteed immunity from prosecution, those who come forward with information on sex abuse cases are not. Thus the use of the intermediary, Reilly.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/News/article1487285.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_11_22

SaveOurLyric

Banjo String wrote: »

One things for sure, with the rise of social media, and sites like Facebook, Twitter, or even on here, whoever the next Govt happens to be made up from would do well to remember that the public are a lot more savvy than they would assume

Surprisingly, I would disagree with you on that point.

The mob has power, no doubt.

But the real root of Ireland's problems is that the public are not savvy at all. Or at least, too many of them are not, and hobble every government's chances of being able to implement policies that are in the people's interest. So furthering the deterioration in the the people's situation.

There is a Greek tragedy element to this cycle, as those who think they are keeping their elected representative in check and doing the right thing, are in fact, the architects of their own woe. Electing a raft of independents, New Party X-Men, or retired terrorists in search of jobs, will really tip matters to the bad.

Sobko

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Surprisingly, I would disagree with you on that point.

The mob has power, no doubt.

But the real root of Ireland's problems is that the public are not savvy at all. Or at least, too many of them are not, and hobble every government's chances of being able to implement policies that are in the people's interest. So furthering the deterioration in the the people's situation.

There is a Greek tragedy element to this cycle, as those who think they are keeping their elected representative in check and doing the right thing, are in fact, the architects of their own woe. Electing a raft of independents, New Party X-Men, or retired terrorists in search of jobs, will really tip matters to the bad.

People have seen how badly IW has been set up. What more is to be said? I'm hoping here on out (doubtful) that people actually take an interest in politics and vote. People have also seen a deterioration the local politics with power removed from locally elected officials. This continuation of centralised power base needs to be reversed.

We regards independents and new parties are you really happy with FG, FF or Labour? They have been the three parties in power since the foundation of the state and have been successful in making a complete mess of things. I'm all for new political parties with new ideas and not the same old rubbish dynasties, cronyism and corruption.

Love this, from the Sindo http://www.independent.ie/news/paul-murphy-td-an-apology-30765893.html

Sobko

i find it hilarious that he is talking about tax cheats when his boss is a tax exile. Rag.

SaveOurLyric

Sobko wrote: »

We regards independents and new parties are you really happy with FG, FF or Labour?

Most definitely.

Sobko wrote: »

They have been the three parties in power since the foundation of the state and have been successful in making a complete mess of things. I'm all for new political parties with new ideas and not the same old rubbish dynasties, cronyism and corruption.

Because they accurately reflect the people of Ireland. The idea that the party flag colour they run with makes any difference to both the policies they will implement, how well they will do it, and how resistant they will be to cronyism or corruption is rubbish. They will all be the same. Dumping them for ' the other guys' in the belief/hope that they will be any different is delusional in the extreme. Since the above three parties do indeed (as evinced periodically for each of them at elections) represent the values and interests of 90% of Irish people, electing anything outside that will be a great misrepresentation of the the electorates real desires. They will have only voted for such a motley bunch by mistake and their lack of understanding of who they are voting for. And again, that somehow, these unknown bods will be superior to the bunch they are exacting their anger on.

hju6

Deleted User wrote: »

Love this, from the Sindo http://www.independent.ie/news/paul-murphy-td-an-apology-30765893.html

Who is Paddy Murray ?

hju6

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Most definitely.



Because they accurately reflect the people of Ireland. The idea that the party flag colour they run with makes any difference to both the policies they will implement, how well they will do it, and how resistant they will be to cronyism or corruption is rubbish. They will all be the same. Dumping them for ' the other guys' in the belief/hope that they will be any different is delusional in the extreme. Since the above three parties do indeed (as evinced periodically for each of them at elections) represent the values and interests of 90% of Irish people, electing anything outside that will be a great misrepresentation of the the electorates real desires. They will have only voted for such a motley bunch by mistake and their lack of understanding of who they are voting for. And again, that somehow, these unknown bods will be superior to the bunch they are exacting their anger on.

So basically you believe people are stupid, and should not be trusted with a vote,

Sobko

Just to be clear you are happy to revote either FF, FG or Labour back in? And are not at least interested in seeing a change? What is the point then? Let's continue with this corrupt and incompetent system. Sounds like defeatism to me.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Most definitely.



Because they accurately reflect the people of Ireland. The idea that the party flag colour they run with makes any difference to both the policies they will implement, how well they will do it, and how resistant they will be to cronyism or corruption is rubbish. They will all be the same. Dumping them for ' the other guys' in the belief/hope that they will be any different is delusional in the extreme. Since the above three parties do indeed (as evinced periodically for each of them at elections) represent the values and interests of 90% of Irish people, electing anything outside that will be a great misrepresentation of the the electorates real desires. They will have only voted for such a motley bunch by mistake and their lack of understanding of who they are voting for. And again, that somehow, these unknown bods will be superior to the bunch they are exacting their anger on.

LostinKildare

Pocoyo wrote: »

I was shocked by the media also and to think i thought the Corrib gas line protesters were militant eco warriors ffs some one in RTE should be strung up for that, but i bought it at the time....Never again!

That Corrib protest was incredibly noble its a shame i and others didnt get behind it.

It's all connected. The Corrib line is a project of Shell E&P Ireland (Royal Dutch Shell mostly, and Statoil).

Shell and Statoil retail were rebranded in Ireland as Topaz.

Topaz is owned by Denis O'Brien (bought at a generous 30ish% discount from Anglo). FYI, nation-wrecker Brian Cowen and failed AIB CEO Colm Doherty (having collected his €3 million golden handshake) are on the board of Topaz.

Last spring the FG govt handed O'Brien/Topaz a €20 million contract to fuel all AGS, Prison Service, and OPW vehicles.

Sobko

hju6 wrote: »

So basically you believe people are stupid, and should not be trusted with a vote,

Sounds like something from the FG manual.

Highflyer13

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Most definitely.



Because they accurately reflect the people of Ireland. The idea that the party flag colour they run with makes any difference to both the policies they will implement, how well they will do it, and how resistant they will be to cronyism or corruption is rubbish. They will all be the same. Dumping them for ' the other guys' in the belief/hope that they will be any different is delusional in the extreme. Since the above three parties do indeed (as evinced periodically for each of them at elections) represent the values and interests of 90% of Irish people, electing anything outside that will be a great misrepresentation of the the electorates real desires. They will have only voted for such a motley bunch by mistake and their lack of understanding of who they are voting for. And again, that somehow, these unknown bods will be superior to the bunch they are exacting their anger on.

You talk some amount of horse manure. How do you know that the other guys wont be far better, fairer and set better standards for the Irish people and run the country better? How do you know? Its never been tried before and now people are indicating that it is the time to look away from the civil war parties who seem cream themselves at the sight of a brown envelope without a thought for the consequences and suffering of others.

SaveOurLyric

Sobko wrote: »

People have seen how badly IW has been set up.

They havent really though.

1) 'People' have no idea what it takes to run a utility like that, and what is good or bad in doing so.
2) Even if the performance of setting up Irish water has been poor, there is no reason to think that any other government would have done it any better.
3) Many people dont like the consequences of IW being set up (most without even understanding them anyway). Therefore it suits to conclude that it has been done badly, is not necessary in the first place etc. It isnt a rational evaluation of the need or effectiveness of the body - they simply dont want it.
4) The uproar is way out of proportion to the substantive issue of paying for, or how much to pay for water. And has become a lightening rod for other to exploit, or as a political lever. A cynical and opportunist action. And this by the people that people are saying they would vote into government. People cannot see that the political instinct of all the politicians is the same: if you are out of government you do the right thing for the people and are the good guys - if you are in government you are cheating and lying to the public, doing the wrong thing and are the bad guys. Flitting between FF and FG based governments in the past worked well, because really it allowed the change of the guard while having two options who both represented the people accurately. Dump FF/FG/SF and let in some of the fundamentally fringe representation will be an revenge vote with a real sting.

Sobko

LostinKildare wrote: »

It's all connected. The Corrib line is a project of Shell E&P Ireland (Royal Dutch Shell mostly, and Statoil).

Shell and Statoil retail were rebranded in Ireland as Topaz.

Topaz is owned by Denis O'Brien (bought at a generous 30ish% discount from Anglo). FYI, nation-wrecker Brian Cowen and failed AIB CEO Colm Doherty (having collected his €3 million golden handshake) are on the board of Topaz.

Last spring the FG govt handed O'Brien/Topaz a €20 million contract to fuel all AGS, Prison Service, and OPW vehicles.

Shocking stuff really and that some people are happy for this to continue is depressing.

My name is URL

Sobko wrote: »

i find it hilarious that he is talking about tax cheats when his boss is a tax exile. Rag.

It's beyond parodic at this stage. They are so desperate to attack those critical of the status quo that they don't mind coming across as lunatics in the process

People are wising up to it thankfully. The more crap they espouse the more support the government loses.

dxhound2005

I see the new darling of the proletartiat is Shane Ross. He doesn't make any mention of it these days but when he was a journalist he was the chief cheerleader for Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide. He regularly derided the mainstream banks for their conservative approach and held up Anglo and IN as the model of how things should be done. He described Sean Fitzpatrick as a banking superstar. And Sean Quinn as a business hero.

http://itonlyencouragesthem.com/2013/03/06/holier-than-thou-shane-ross/

Nothing to do with water of course, but like Enda said much of what is on this thread is nothing to do with water.

Highflyer13

LostinKildare wrote: »

It's all connected. The Corrib line is a project of Shell E&P Ireland (Royal Dutch Shell mostly, and Statoil).

Shell and Statoil retail were rebranded in Ireland as Topaz.

Topaz is owned by Denis O'Brien (bought at a generous 30ish% discount from Anglo). FYI, nation-wrecker Brian Cowen and failed AIB CEO Colm Doherty (having collected his €3 million golden handshake) are on the board of Topaz.

Last spring the FG govt handed O'Brien/Topaz a €20 million contract to fuel all AGS, Prison Service, and OPW vehicles.

Its easy for somebody of that wealth to pull the strings. When you are that rich and powerful you probably dont see anything wrong with what you are doing and consider it just business.

O'Brien could buy Ireland if he wanted to and by buying Ireland I mean the loyalties of the Government.

Sobko

You underestimate people's ability to grasp how companies are set up. €100 million underestimates, company putting meters owned by billionaire tax exile.... But this is sidetracking. People are finally understanding just how corrupt politics can be, cronyism and back handlers, how contracts are rewarded. I'm hoping that this is the start of something better. I really cannot see how anyone could be happy to see it continue.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They havent really though.

1) 'People' have no idea what it takes to run a utility like that, and what is good or bad in doing so.
2) Even if the performance of setting up Irish water has been poor, there is no reason to think that any other government would have done it any better.
3) Many people dont like the consequences of IW being set up (most without even understanding them anyway). Therefore it suits to conclude that it has been done badly, is not necessary in the first place etc. It isnt a rational evaluation of the need or effectiveness of the body - they simply dont want it.
4) The uproar is way out of proportion to the substantive issue of paying for, or how much to pay for water. And has become a lightening rod for other to exploit, or as a political lever. A cynical and opportunist action. And this by the people that people are saying they would vote into government. People cannot see that the political instinct of all the politicians is the same: if you are out of government you do the right thing for the people and are the good guys - if you are in government you are cheating and lying to the public, doing the wrong thing and are the bad guys. Flitting between FF and FG based governments in the past worked well, because really it allowed the change of the guard while having two options who both represented the people accurately. Dump FF/FG/SF and let in some of the fundamentally fringe representation will be an revenge vote with a real sting.

Sobko

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Nothing to do with water of course, but like Enda said much of what is on this thread is nothing to do with water.

Much like Irish Water itself LOL.

SaveOurLyric

hju6 wrote: »

So basically you believe people are stupid, and should not be trusted with a vote,

Certainly not.

By their flip flopping between essentially the same parties (voting in sense as if they were playing X factor, or Strictly Dancing), and swayed as much by who is not in power and personality factors, they do display very little sophistication and responsibility in their voting.

Certainly they should have a vote. Even if they use it poorly, and complain when they elect politicians who are an accurate reflection of themselves, that they dont have someone better in charge.