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IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

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    #302
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    Phoebas wrote: »
    What? You mean that freeman bollixology doesn't actually work!!!!!

    Whatever about that crap. But it would seriously throw the figures of people who have 'signed up' into question as released by Irish water.

    Something that was laughed at by some posters when others said the wording of the statement was quite particular and were most likely including any applications received in their compliance rate figures.


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    #303
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,860 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    BoatMad wrote: »
    who cares, if you take the water , you clearly have a contract. the existence of a form is irrelevant , blank , partially filled in, or fully filled in.
    Phoebas wrote: »
    What? You mean that freeman bollixology doesn't actually work!!!!!

    Actually, given the massive row backs so far (and they're not done yet I'd imagine) I'd have to say the protests are working - despite the best attempts of some people here, in the media, and elsewhere to discredit it based on the actions of a few idiots.
    The Cabinet is today expected to agree a short delay in the introduction of water charges as part of a new package of measures to be announced tomorrow.

    A cap of at least four years will form part of the package, with final bills expected to be less than €200 a year for families.

    It is reported that billing will not now start until January, instead of from the start of October as previously announced, meaning it will be April before the first bills arrive at homes.

    From here

    Of course, there's the small matter of the money that's already been pissed away on ads, forms being sent out with PPS number requests etc.. all those will have to be redone too at more expense!

    And all because Enda and Co assumed they could just force yet another corrupt incompetent quango on people!


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    #304
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    S.O wrote: »
    I hate to say I told you so, Irish water confirms anyone who sent back forms with no contract/no consent is being marked as registered, how many of those 800.000 forms actually filled in the form and signed their details we prob never know, but certainly explains how they have being able to put a spin on their figures registering.



    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/people-who-return-blank-forms-will-be-registered-with-utility-298279.html

    LOL.
    A form is sent back blank and this sham organisation treat it as completed.
    It just shows the arrogance and contempt this government and their crony buddies have for the electorate.
    I see kenny the clown is still trotting out the 'sinister' protesters line.
    That and burton's 'ultra-factions' comments show the absolute disconnect these f*ckwits have with the feeling on the ground.
    It's time they were sent back to where they came from.


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    #305
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I want a peaceful protest, I dont want violence, I dont want this cause to be lost in anarchy - but I can also understand people have finally snapped. The public revolt to Water Charges seems shocking because we have done NO revolting in the last 6 years.

    This seems like nothing compared to anti austerity demonstrations in Greece, Spain and regular demonstrations in France.
    What country recently were ministers dumped into skips on their way out of Parliament????? Can you see the shock if that was done here??? We do nothing by comparison here - we have been so meek and subservient that NOW Enda is shocked - finally!


    I earn €208 a week on a CE Scheme after losing a job in banking.
    I pay USC, TV Licence, Car tax, bin charges, all my utilities, Property Tax. I insure my house and car. I buy food to live. I cut and colour my own hair. I never buy new clothes. I simply cant pay any more charges.
    I also cry most nights because I'm stressed and worried all the time about money. I want a proper paid job again. I am experienced and well qualified but I cant get one.
    I cant afford this Christmas when my kids return from the countries they emigrated to. I feel sick.

    I fundamentally agree with paying for a commodity like water but if Enda wants us to pay then scrap USC!!!

    I am tired of listening to people who actually can pay for water telling others here to just shut up and pay again. Live my life for one day and try it.


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    #306
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    El Horseboxo wrote: »
    Whatever about that crap. But it would seriously throw the figures of people who have 'signed up' into question as released by Irish water.
    Irish Water only care that they get details in their database, and somebody returning a form with a name and address on the front confirms that well enough.
    I'm sure there are many people who don't like water charges but who filled in the form and returned it.


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    #307
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    I, personally, don't think we pay too much tax. It's just that we get such poor value in return for it that we have to dig in to our net incomes to make up the shortfall in services provided by an inefficient and wasteful public service


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    #308
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Actually, given the massive row backs so far (and they're not done yet I'd imagine) I'd have to say the protests are working - despite the best attempts of some people here, in the media, and elsewhere to discredit it based on the actions of a few idiots.

    The freeman stuff was never going to work, but the protests did work.
    They've resulted in a compromise on the issue while retaining water charges.


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    #309
    Plates
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    Anyone who thinks the protests are working are living with the same narrow mindset as one trick ponies like Paul Murphy. If by "working" you mean that water charges will be lower than originally proposed then yes, by that simple logic they are. However, it won't be long before another tax increase or another charge is introduced to compensate for the reduced amount being collected by water charges.


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    #310
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Plates wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks the protests are working are living with the same narrow mindset as one trick ponies like Paul Murphy. If by "working" you mean that water charges will be lower than originally proposed then yes, by that simple logic they are. However, it won't be long before another tax increase or another charge is introduced to compensate for the reduced amount being collected by water charges.

    They'll be increasing taxes anyway so it is what it is. I'd rather pay through central taxation than give my hard earned to a old boys club quango.

    Oh and the protests aim is to have IW abolished not just reduce their prices to sucker people in. Nobody will fall for that.


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    #311
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,543 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Deleted User wrote: »
    on the 6pm news I saw a young woman with glasses being flung aside by the Gardai - she hit steel bollard really hard and her glasses fell off. She could have been seriously hurt with the force she fell. I felt really upset at that - no excuse for a man to do that to woman even in the line of work/duty.

    You're right

    The guard should have calmly asked her if she wouldn't mind awfully just moving a few feet to the left so the leader of the countries car could pass.:rolleyes:

    Truth is she tried to jump in front of his car to stop it, she could have been hurt doing that but no one seems to be pointing that out and then of course if she had been hit by the car she would have gone down like she had been pole axed and even if uninjured insisted on not being moved until an ambulance arrived.

    I don't know why the guards even entertain these protesters, Shut off any close access to politicians when out in public. You want to protest when Kenny/Burton et al are making an appearance then fine, you can do it from the end of the street and if anyone tries to jump in front of ministerial cars again the drivers should be told not to stop.


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    #312
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Irish Water only care that they get details in their database, and somebody returning a form with a name and address on the front confirms that well enough.
    I'm sure there are many people who don't like water charges but who filled in the form and returned it.

    That's not my point. My point is that what you just said above was already said by people on the no side. And people on the pro side said it was nonsense for them to include forms sent back of that nature (No contract no consent, blank forms etc) in their compliance figures. I don't believe in any of that crap. Hell I don't even live in Ireland. But I specifically remember that argument from the pro side and one of the more prominent posters in the thread saying that he knew for a fact that they were not included in the figures released. He even put the phrase Trust me after it.


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    #313
    Plates
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    They'll be increasing taxes anyway so it is what it is. I'd rather pay through central taxation than give my hard earned to a old boys club quango.

    Oh and the protests aim is to have IW abolished not just reduce their prices to sucker people in. Nobody will fall for that.

    Who are the "they" that you're referring to that will be raising taxes?


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    #314
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,543 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    They'll be increasing taxes anyway so it is what it is. I'd rather pay through central taxation than give my hard earned to a old boys club quango.

    Oh and the protests aim is to have IW abolished not just reduce their prices to sucker people in. Nobody will fall for that.

    So you will be happy as a tax payer to pay for everything and let the people on welfare/pensions etc get everything for free as usual? And they say people who are willing to are mugs :rolleyes:


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    #315
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    on the 6pm news I saw a young woman with glasses being flung aside by the Gardai - she hit steel bollard really hard and her glasses fell off. She could have been seriously hurt with the force she fell. I felt really upset at that - no excuse for a man to do that to woman even in the line of work/duty.

    What you saw was a woman illegally breaking a barrier and jumping onto the bonnet of a minister's car to do god knows what and being rightfully removed by the Gardai....as is their job.

    It may have been a little forceful but then again but for all they she was going to smash a window and throw something dangerous into the car or attack the occupants.

    Her gender is irrelevant as is that of the Garda. Less of the self righteous anger please and a little more logical thinking.


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    #316
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    What you saw was a woman illegally breaking a barrier and jumping onto the bonnet of a minister's car to do god knows what and being rightfully removed by the Gardai....as is their job.

    It may have been a little forceful but then again but for all they she was going to smash a window and throw something dangerous into the car or attack the occupants.

    Her gender is irrelevant as is that of the Garda. Less of the self righteous anger please and a little more logical thinking.

    A little forceful :pac: It was assault plain and simple. The Gardaí should rightfully be losing his job and brought into court. A thug is a thug.


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    #317
    shinzon
    Registered Users Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I cant believe theres a third thread on this with the same people spouting the same auld ****e to make there point

    are we really going to have another 200 odd pages of complete drivel that has been spread over 3 threads now.

    There really is no new points to make maybe different ways of saying it but it essentially the same things that are being said time and again

    Shin


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    #318
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,860 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The freeman stuff was never going to work, but the protests did work.
    They've resulted in a compromise on the issue while retaining water charges.

    For now..

    There's no sign of the anger subsiding despite the latest attempts to buy people off. We've known about these latest changes for days now and still the protests are ongoing.

    I personally think that they'll either scrap it entirely or it'll bring down the government - not that that'd be a bad thing. Enda may yet find himself with another party split and leadership contest - but considering the guy has the leadership ability of a wet sponge I won't be surprised. He can't keep his ministers in-line at the best of times, never mind during a crisis.


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    #319
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So you will be happy as a tax payer to pay for everything and let the people on welfare/pensions etc get everything for free as usual? And they say people who are willing to are mugs :rolleyes:

    Pensioners have put the work in over the years I have no problem paying for their share. Welfare should be reduced by 20% across the board except for people with genuine disabilities. I said that in 2008 and stand by that.

    This isn't a us vrs them argument as the government are trying to turn it into. This is a about the setting up of a quango with the old boys club and the eventual selling off of that quango.

    I won't pay twice simple as that and neither will a million others at least. The government just don't get that and it's what will bring them down in the end.


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    #320
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,543 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    A little forceful :pac: It was assault plain and simple. The Gardaí should rightfully be losing his job and brought into court. A thug is a thug.

    No the guard was doing his job, She should have been arrested and locked away.


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    #321
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,860 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    I won't pay twice simple as that and neither will a million others at least. The government just don't get that and it's what will bring them down in the end.

    The problem is the EU really..

    Since the collapse of the economy it's become even more apparent that the largest quango of all is all about keeping the economy of Germany (and France) going. Everything else - including the other member states - is secondary to that.

    As a result, citizens of those states have been reduced to expendable pawns in an economy and treated as cash machines to maintain the status quo. Local governments take their cue from this and we end up with out of touch schoolteachers who've been sucking from the taxpayers teat since 1975 lecturing us on TV about how we will pay "our" bills :rolleyes:

    All these protests are doing really is reminding FG and their colleagues (on all sides of the house) that they are there to serve the people of this country - NOT the other way around


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    #322
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    No the guard was doing his job, She should have been arrested and locked away.

    If I done my job like that here in my department I'd have been before a review board come Monday morning. I think it was over the top and having seen the video she was not in front of the car and already restrained by 2 other officers. It's what we'd refer to here as excessive force.


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    #323
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    A little forceful :pac: It was assault plain and simple. The Gardaí should rightfully be losing his job and brought into court. A thug is a thug.

    Again with the dramatics.

    The Gardai were doing their job. Should they have left that poor innocent little woman sitting on the Minister's car?

    Like I said she could have had anything in her hand to use, or on her mind to do.

    They did their job, she was in the wrong, plain and simple.


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    #324
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Again with the dramatics.

    The Gardai were doing their job. Should they have left that poor innocent little woman sitting on the Minister's car?

    Like I said she could have had anything in her hand to use, or on her mind to do.

    They did their job, she was in the wrong, plain and simple.

    As someone in law enforcement I don't agree with that assessment.


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    #325
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,543 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    El Horseboxo wrote: »
    If I done my job like that here in my department I'd have been before a review board come Monday morning. I think it was over the top and having seen the video she was not in front of the car and already restrained by 2 other officers. It's what we'd refer to here as excessive force.

    One mans excessive force is another's reasonable force, It's all over the internet, the fact the guard hasn't been arrested or suspended pending investigation tells me that his superiors don't think he used excessive force either. Maybe next time she will stay behind the barriers as instructed instead of acting the knob.


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    #326
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,860 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Again with the dramatics.

    The Gardai were doing their job. Should they have left that poor innocent little woman sitting on the Minister's car?

    Like I said she could have had anything in her hand to use, or on her mind to do.

    They did their job, she was in the wrong, plain and simple.

    I think you need to go watch the video again..

    The woman was already being restrained by 2 Gardai when the hi-viz clad goon comes bounding over to throw her into a bollard - excessive force.. definitely, thuggary.. most likely, should face charges.. for sure!

    Of course this being Ireland the most that'll probably happen is he'll be suspended for a few weeks or maybe shifted to another division. AGS is one of the oldest "old boys" networks going in this State.


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    #327
    shinzon
    Registered Users Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭shinzon


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    One mans excessive force is another's reasonable force, It's all over the internet, the fact the guard hasn't been arrested or suspended pending investigation tells me that his superiors don't think he used excessive force either. Maybe next time she will stay behind the barriers as instructed instead of acting the knob.

    How do you know that Woman hasn't made a complaint against him ?

    Shin


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    #328
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I think you need to go watch the video again..

    The woman was already being restrained by 2 Gardai when the hi-viz clad goon comes bounding over to throw her into a bollard - excessive force.. definitely, thuggary.. most likely, should face charges.. for sure!

    Of course this being Ireland the most that'll probably happen is he'll be suspended for a few weeks or maybe shifted to another division. AGS is one of the oldest "old boys" networks going in this State.

    I've watched it several times.....She was sitting on the bonnet of the car and he pulled her off. I did say it was a bit forceful in fairness. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have moved her, nor does her anger mean she should be allowed to do what she did.


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    #329
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    El Horseboxo wrote: »
    As someone in law enforcement I don't agree with that assessment.

    So as a Garda, which I assume you are, you would have left her sitting on the Minister's car?


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    #330
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,615 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    One mans excessive force is another's reasonable force, It's all over the internet, the fact the guard hasn't been arrested or suspended pending investigation tells me that his superiors don't think he used excessive force either. Maybe next time she will stay behind the barriers as instructed instead of acting the knob.

    The fact that the Garda haven't taken any action against one of their own is evidence enough for you that nothing was wrong?

    Yes, because the Garda have should a great record in disiplining thier own, holding their members to account for any breaking of the laws.

    If you are waiting for the garda to look into this then I'm afraid you'll be waiting.


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    #331
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,543 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    shinzon wrote: »
    How do you know that Woman hasn't made a complaint against him ?

    Shin

    Oh i think the pro water crowd would be screaming that from the rooftops by now if that had happened, Also there is nothing about a complaint going in and nothing about an investigation so more than likely no complaint has been made.


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