IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Satriale

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Amazing the amount of people who think €70 over 5 years is huge money.

There's a difference between thinking its huge money(it isnt) and knowing that there are people who cant afford it.
There are plenty people out there who might put a Euro a week away for this or that but when the light bill comes and they risk the power being turned off, they weigh up the dental check or sitting in the cold and dark.

listermint

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Amazing the amount of people who think €70 over 5 years is huge money.

Amazing that people are still deflecting from the actual point of this thread.

I think the video above explains it in laymans terms.

Thurston?

flutered wrote: »

how much has iw cost so far to set up, the consultants, brand and logo costs, wages, pension conrubutions, now redundancy payments, expenses, free cars, bank charges, call center and debt collection charges, postal charges, esb costs building costs, the cost of purchaseing and fitting the meters, if all this was put into the infastructure then check what was required, no one would have protested

The infrastructure is suffering because the present funding method isn't working. Change is needed, try to think in the longer term.

Red Pepper

Thurston? wrote: »

The infrastructure is suffering because the present funding method isn't working. Change is needed, try to think in the longer term.

The councils had loads of cash in the boom and still didn't fix the pipes. The water charges wont be ring-fenced for fixing leaks.

ROCKMAN

shinzon wrote: »

came across this video explains Irish water wastage quite clearly

Shin

Sums it up for me ,very hard to fight the facts in that video ,but wait for it....:D

Tony EH

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I didn't ignore what Hawkelady said. The original person said they couldn't afford to go to the dentist check up in the last 5 years, I called bull**** on that.

You obviously haven't the first clue how some people have to live.

They are many people, both employed and unemployed that literally go from week to week on an extremely limited budget and are forced to forgo many a "luxury" in order to simply live and something like a dentist or doctor checkup are one of the many things that can end up on the "not now" list, after being pushed out by rent, food, clothing and bills.

Little CuChulainn

Why do people think a check up at the dentist will result in an €800 bill? What dentists are people going to?

Thurston?

Red Pepper wrote: »

The councils had loads of cash in the boom and still didn't fix the pipes. The water charges wont be ring-fenced for fixing leaks.

Well aren't the water charges going to a company solely concerned with the management of water? Kind of narrows down where they can spend any 'loads of cash' they happen to find themselves with.

Little CuChulainn

Thurston? wrote: »

Well aren't the water charges going to a company solely concerned with the management of water? Kind of narrows down where they can spend any 'loads of cash' they happen to find themselves with.

Out of all the taxes and charges in this country, the water charges are the most likely to go where they are supposed to.

ROCKMAN

Thurston? wrote: »

Well aren't the water charges going to a company solely concerned with the management of water? Kind of narrows down where they can spend any 'loads of cash' they happen to find themselves with.

Why ?
Why do you think anything raised will end up where it should or where it's suppose too.
What part of this government History/track record makes you believe they'll keep their word?

Little CuChulainn

ROCKMAN wrote: »

[/B]

Why ?
Why do you think anything raised will end up where it should or where it's suppose too.
What part of this government History/track record makes you believe they'll keep their word?

Because the money does not go to the exchequer, it remains within Irish Water.

Thurston?

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Why ?
Why do you think anything raised will end up where it should or where it's suppose too.
What part of this government History/track record makes you believe they'll keep their word?

Where do you think the money you pay to Irish Water is going to go?

Caliden

Thurston? wrote: »

Well aren't the water charges going to a company solely concerned with the management of water? Kind of narrows down where they can spend any 'loads of cash' they happen to find themselves with.

Where do the 10-15% bonuses come from?

Those are contractual bonuses and are going to be paid despite what the government says. It would be a very quick court case if it ever went to trial.

ROCKMAN

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Because the money does not go to the exchequer, it remains within Irish Water.

Which Ervia is its parent company ,which is a government semi state body ,which allows the government ...................

Thurston? wrote: »

Where do you think the money you pay to Irish Water is going to go?

will not be any of my money.

TheChizler

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Which Ervia is its parent company ,which is a government semi state body ,which allows the government ....................

Companies can only pay dividends to shareholders when the company is in profit, I can't see that happening any time soon.

Red Pepper

BoatMad wrote: »

A lot of this dates back to a colonial attitude, since we are not in control of the state, we don't see our allegiance to that state as important, we see allegiance to family ( cronyism), clan and background even our business as important. We like to do "deals " out of the sight of officials ( cause these officials were not "ours). Taxes are something paid to "them"

This went to a stage that we actually shot each other over the formation of the state, i.e. we put ourselves above the very survival of the state.

This attitude has passed into our politics, we don't see the nation as important , we see individual gain and loss as important. Hence we have massive parish pump politics, where the primary purpose of our elected representatives is not to govern, its to see what they can "squeeze" out of the state for "us". Ask any elected rep , how to get elected and stay elected.

we baked in corruption into our politics, because ultimately its what we wanted.

BoatMad, I found this response very insightful and I have been mulling over it.I think for the most part you are right.

However I do think things are changing as time goes by. Slowly but surely. For one thing, our young people seem to be less consumed by our colonial past and our "civil war" politics and even our famine victim complex. Our young people are full of confidence and well informed and well able to communicate. They look to the future instead of the past. It was great to see all the young people and children at the peaceful protests nationwide. I dont remember any parents out protesting about anything in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up (unless they were on strike). The lesson to the young people is not to put up with perceived injustices and cronyism and that the government will climb down in the face of people power.

I don't know if you are saying we cant or wont change our selfish ways or general outlook or whether it's better the devil you know in terms of FG and Labour but I think the next generation will create a fairer society.
I actually think we first need to get beyond the 2016 celebrations. I am not sentimental or nationalistic and I am not so sure we have achieved much in the past 100 years especially given the amount of hurt and pain that the Roman church inflicted on our people but we certainly have scope for a new beginning. I hope history will show that these protest marches sparked that new beginning.

FullblownRose

Unsigned forms returned with No Contract No Consent will still be processed.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/17400-duped-into-signing-up-to-irish-water-299272.html

Thurston?

Caliden wrote: »

Where do the 10-15% bonuses come from?

They have to pay their employees don't they? The bonus scheme is part of that, even if some of us would deem it generous, to say the least ...

Red Pepper

Thurston? wrote: »

Well aren't the water charges going to a company solely concerned with the management of water? Kind of narrows down where they can spend any 'loads of cash' they happen to find themselves with.

Yeah they can spend it on the 2000 people they don't need or bonuses for retired CoCo managers.

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.
The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.
“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.
.
.
And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.”

Why do we need to keep repeating this shít to some of you people??

BoJack Horseman

Red Pepper wrote: »

Why do we need to keep repeating this shít to some of you people??

Tell it to SIPTU.

There are no compulsory redundancies from the public service.

Red Pepper

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Tell it to SIPTU.

There are no compulsory redundancies from the public service.

They should never have been transferred from local councils then. The government were trying to fudge the PS numbers.

BoJack Horseman

Red Pepper wrote: »

They should never have been transferred from local councils then. The government were trying to fudge the PS numbers.

Or, more likely, an unfortunate & pricey consequence of the sh*t salad that was the Croke Park & Haddington Road agreements.

gandalf

FullblownRose wrote: »

Unsigned forms returned with No Contract No Consent will still be processed.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/17400-duped-into-signing-up-to-irish-water-299272.html

How can they use blank documents as authorisation to sign someone up to IW?

The best policy is not to acknowledge them at all.

FullblownRose

gandalf wrote: »

How can they use blank documents as authorisation to sign someone up to IW?

The best policy is not to acknowledge them at all.

I have no idea. It bewilders me that they can even begin to sign people up without first explaining what their rates will be.

TheChizler

gandalf wrote: »

How can they use blank documents as authorisation to sign someone up to IW?

The best policy is not to acknowledge them at all.

I think that story was discussed a few pages back, might have been the Legal Discussion thread. Basically it's not a contract, just a form to update details. If a form's blank they still have to process it, presumably they write "unknown" or something in the empty fields in their database.

Since the setting up of IW and definition of customers happened through its own legislation it's not a part of standard contract law. You're automatically a customer if you use water or wastewater services. The only point of sending forms back is if you want your bill reduced from the maximum default amount.

VinLieger

gandalf wrote: »

How can they use blank documents as authorisation to sign someone up to IW?

The best policy is not to acknowledge them at all.

The whole "No contract No consent" thing was ridiculous freeman garbage so ive no sympathy for people who got caught up by it. If they didnt want to be signed up they shouldn't have engaged at all instead of falling for one of those idiotic facebook scams.

FullblownRose

TheChizler wrote: »

I think that story was discussed a few pages back, might have been the Legal Discussion thread. Basically it's not a contract, just a form to update details. If a form's blank they still have to process it, presumably they write "unknown" or something in the empty fields in their database.

Since the setting up of IW and definition of customers happened through it's own legislation it's not a part of standard contract law. You're automatically a customer if you use water or wastewater services. The only point of sending forms back is if you want your bill reduced from the maximum default amount.

Essentially they created legilation to fit with IW instead of operating IW in a manner that fits with existing business legislation..?

I'm not at all familiar with business law, and am not trying to be smart about it, that's just how it seems to me..?

Spanish Eyes

Facebook will eventually make us a nation without individually thought out views. Herd mentality personified.

How anyone can sign up and be a member of that shyte is totally beyond me.

listermint

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Facebook will eventually make us a nation without individually thought out views. Herd mentality personified.

How anyone can sign up and be a member of that shyte is totally beyond me.

You mean,




Like the Whip system...

TheChizler

FullblownRose wrote: »

Essentially they created legilation to fit with IW instead of operating IW in a manner that fits with existing business legislation..?

I'm not at all familiar with business law, and am not trying to be smart about it, that's just how it seems to me..?

I suppose there's never been such a mass amalgamation of services and commencement of direct payment for services that had previously been free (by free I mean essentially an open, unlimited supply).

I'm no legal expert, or even novice so correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine they could have let it be left to contract law, which essentially says if you make use of a service being offered in exchange for payment, you have to pay for it. The complication is that nobody's making a new connection, it's already a service they're using, so maybe they needed to make special legislation to simplify matters.