IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

It was only forced to be "transparent" because of people's questioning and opposition to Irish Water.

The truths only began to appear over time when people investigated properly.

So you are saying the Local Authorities which ran the service prior to Irish Water ran it in an efficient and cost effective way providing good value and a good service to the Customer ?

Not sure about your experience but my Nan has brown/white water coming from her taps for as long as they've lived in their house.

The water where I lived in Dublin had a strange problem with rust and gave the water an orange tint.

I won't even mentioned my cousins problems in Galway, I think everyone knows those.

Some years ago my family moved to Cork, the water pressure from the mains was terrible, we moved there from the UK my Dad contacted the people in the Council responsible for it (to find out who to notify about the problem was quite difficult in the first place)

The answer was some laughter and a "that's just the way it is mate, do you want me to wave a magic wand or something"

They seemed to find it strange that someone was making a complaint.

When he tried to escalate problem to a higher authority it was met with confusion and mostly "perhaps you should write to your local TD or something"

Tony EH

Where the hell have I said the LA's were doing an "efficient and cost effective" job??????

However, if you think that Irish Water are going to be better, then you're just fooling yourself, especially with the likes of John Tierney on board.

The ONLY thing Irish Water will provide is bloated pay packets/bonuses for incompetents and extra tax revenue so we can pay back banking debt.

There's already been a criminal amount of wasted money with Irish Water.

People are letting their wishes and hopes blind them to the reality of this nonsensical farce.

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

Where the hell have I said the LA's were doing an "efficient and cost effective" job??????

However, if you think that Irish Water are going to be better, then you're just fooling yourself, especially with the likes of John Tierney on board.

The ONLY thing Irish Water will provide is bloated pay packets/bonuses for incompetents and extra tax revenue so we can pay back banking debt.

There's already been a criminal amount of wasted money with Irish Water.

People are letting their wishes and hopes blind them to the reality of this nonsensical farce.

Suggest a better solution that has a greater chance of success and won't waste more tax payers money.

Tinkersbell

keithclancy wrote: »

Suggest a better solution that has a greater chance of success and won't waste more tax payers money.

A 26 county 'water board' which brings together the local knowledge and expertise accumulated by the LA's over decades, funded through general taxation as before.

The IW water quango is a failure before it even begins.
All we have for €700 million is a quango and a pile of water meters (FG's e-voting machines) sitting, redundant, in the ground.
Scrap it now FG and call a general election.
Let the people pass judgement on your cronyism and corruption.

Tony EH

What could have been done was to keep the LA's basic structure (Irish Water is no different to them in most respects) and simply install meters in homes and set a price that covers ONLY what people are actually using. Not for gyms, or bonuses for nothing, or bloated wages for useless eaters, or paying "consultants", or paying back bankers debts.

Job done.

We could have even Increased tax for a short period of time and ringfenced that to use for fixing the leaks, then roll back on that once those leaks had actually been fixed in part or in full.

See, the problem is, is that Irish Water was never about fixing leaks, or charging a fair amount for usage, or conservation or any of the other gibberish we were lied to about, or that some people so desperation want to believe.

It was an attempt at a money grab. No more.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Suggest a better solution that has a greater chance of success and won't waste more tax payers money.

I did that yesterday so why go round and around in circles again and again with the same points.

You cant really believe after everything that's been said across 3 threads now about Irish water that its a company fit for purpose to deliver water services, the leadership of the company is staffed by incompetent former city managers that ran up huge debts when they were city managers nvm in Irish water

You have seen the figures and golden handshake pensions there getting its been linked here often enough now at this stage.

You keep asking everyone for an alternative I gave you one so let me ask you the same question or do you truly believe IW is really the best solution considering the colossal waste of money its been so far

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

I did that yesterday so why go round and around in circles again and again with the same points.

You cant really believe after everything that's been said across 3 threads now about Irish water that its a company fit for purpose to deliver water services, the leadership of the company is staffed by incompetent former city managers that ran up huge debts when they were city managers nvm in Irish water

You have seen the figures and golden handshake pensions there getting its been linked here often enough now at this stage.

You keep asking everyone for an alternative I gave you one so let me ask you the same question or do you truly believe IW is really the best solution considering the colossal waste of money its been so far

Shin

In your solution it means I don't pay for Water at all, hence your solution is flawed.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

In your solution it means I don't pay for Water at all, hence your solution is flawed.

you just said your in the Netherlands why would you be paying for water here

Shin

keithclancy

Tinkersbell wrote: »

A 26 county 'water board' which brings together the local knowledge and expertise accumulated by the LA's over decades, funded through general taxation as before.

The IW water quango is a failure before it even begins.
All we have for €700 million is a quango and a pile of water meters (FG's e-voting machines) sitting, redundant, in the ground.
Scrap it now FG and call a general election.
Let the people pass judgement on your cronyism and corruption.

I have a Water Meter in my house and it counts the amount of water I use, it works just fine.

Tony EH wrote: »

What could have been done was to keep the LA's basic structure (Irish Water is no different to them in most respects) and simply install meters in homes and set a price that covers ONLY what people are actually using. Not for gyms, or bonuses for nothing, or bloated wages for useless eaters, or paying "consultants", or paying back bankers debts.

Job done.

We could have even Increased tax for a short period of time and ringfenced that to use for fixing the leaks, then roll back on that once those leaks had actually been fixed in part or in full.

See, the problem is, is that Irish Water was never about fixing leaks, or charging a fair amount for usage, or conservation or any of the other gibberish we were lied to about, or that some people so desperation want to believe.

It was an attempt at a money grab. No more.

In your example my Aunt and Uncle on a Group Water Scheme are having their taxes increased to pay for something she doesn't use

Do you think that is fair ? Why should they have to pay more ?

Times are hard enough as it is without throwing more money into the Tax pit.

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

you just said your in the Netherlands why would you be paying for water here

Shin

I live in Ireland for half the year, the other half I live in the Netherlands and I work in Germany.

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

In your example my Aunt and Uncle on a Group Water Scheme are having their taxes increased to pay for something she doesn't use

Do you think that is fair ? Why should they have to pay more ?

Times are hard enough as it is without throwing more money into the Tax pit.

Irish Water has wasted millions in taxpayers money already and have done fück all.

Please, don't talk to me about "fairness".

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

Irish Water has wasted millions in taxpayers money already and have done fück all.

Please, don't talk to me about "fairness".

You didn't answer my question. Do you think it makes sense for a Tax increase in their situation to pay for something they do not use in any way shape or form, except perhaps flushing the jax and washing their hands at a friends house ?

Tony EH

As opposed to wasting money on Irish Water?

Yes.

BTW, the idea behind the temp tax increase is to fix the leaks in the system. In conjunction with a basic meter system.

In addition, we have taxes in place here to pay off debt that most of teh Irish people aren't responsible for.

As I said, don't talk to me about fairness. It doesn't exist.

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

As opposed to wasting money on Irish Water?

Yes.

BTW, the idea behind the temp tax increase is to fix the leaks in the system. In conjunction with a basic meter system.

I guess they could parade around with a sign saying "We won't pay" but it would just come out of their income, but sure they wouldn't feel it because it's only a little bit of something out of the something they pay already right ?

edit**

Tony EH wrote: »

In addition, we have taxes in place here to pay off debt that most of teh Irish people aren't responsible for.

As I said, don't talk to me about fairness. It doesn't exist.

Heard it before ...

You could say I'm still paying for the re-unification of a Country I'm not from as a German Tax payer.

Or you could say I'm getting shafted on a Tax paid from my wage to a Catholic Church I never attend.

Or you could say I'm paying for mandatory private healthcare that I can't use properly because I don't live in Germany

Or you could say every tax payer in Ireland regardless of where they are from are paying for the same thing.

Paying for a utility like a water service to my house, if the service wasn't available to me the I wouldn't want to pay for it.

Tony EH

You know what I guess they could.

Or it can be just pissed away on Irish Water either way.

Tinkersbell

keithclancy wrote: »

I have a Water Meter in my house and it counts the amount of water I use, it works just fine.

In Ireland?

How is your meter related to what you are paying so?

keithclancy

Tinkersbell wrote: »

In Ireland?

How is your meter related to what you are paying so?

No, in the Netherlands.

In Ireland it's also useful because I can check the usage and it will make it obvious if a pipe bursts.

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

Heard it before ...

You could say I'm still paying for the re-unification of a Country I'm not from as a German Tax payer.

Or you could say I'm getting shafted on a Tax paid from my wage to a Catholic Church I never attend.

Or you could say I'm paying for mandatory private healthcare that I can't use properly because I don't live in Germany

Or you could say every tax payer in Ireland regardless of where they are from are paying for the same thing.

Paying for a utility like a water service to my house, if the service wasn't available to me the I wouldn't want to pay for it.

I agree, taxes can be crap and some of my tax money goes to services and infrastructure I will never avail of, like my property tax possibly being used for projects in some county I'll never visit.

But so what? That's what happens with taxes across the board.

Either way, you asked for a better alternative to Irish Water and you got one. Just not the one you want to hear.

Tinkersbell

keithclancy wrote: »

No, in the Netherlands.

In Ireland it's also useful because I can check the usage and it will make it obvious if a pipe bursts.

Do they have a USC on top of all other income related taxes in the Netherlands like we have here?

A USC that takes €4.5 billion PA from peoples income?

A USC that's here to stay under FG/Labour even though FFail brought it in as a temporary measure?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/noonan-universal-social-charge-here-to-stay-652701.html

Banjo String

keithclancy wrote: »

I live in Ireland for half the year, the other half I live in the Netherlands and I work in Germany.

I hope there's a meter installed in your gaff in Ireland so. Because if there isn't, you'll be billed a capped amount for the 6 months you're out of the country.

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

I agree, taxes can be crap and some of my tax money goes to services and infrastructure I will never avail of, like my property tax possibly being used for projects in some county I'll never visit.

But so what? That's what happens with taxes across the board.

Either way, you asked for a better alternative to Irish Water and you got one. Just not the one you want to hear.

In your solution I pay nothing for something I do use and people that don't use it pay for others.

Your solution makes no sense.

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Do they have a USC on top of all other income related taxes in the Netherlands like we have here?

A USC that takes €4.5 billion PA from peoples income?

A USC that's here to stay under FG/Labour even though FFail brought it in as a temporary measure?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/noonan-universal-social-charge-here-to-stay-652701.html

I work in Germany, the re-unification debt is around 100 billion euros per year. This comes out of my pay under "Solidarity Charge"

Banjo String wrote: »

I hope there's a meter installed in your gaff in Ireland so. Because if there isn't, you'll be billed a capped amount for the 6 months you're out of the country.

There is

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

In your solution I pay nothing for something I do use and people that don't use it pay for others.

Your solution makes no sense.

Read it again.

My alternative is a meter, plus a temporary ring-fenced accrual of tax specifically for fixing leaks, which is rolled back when the leaks are fixed.

How do you pay nothing if you're using?

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

Read it again.

My alternative is a meter, plus a temporary ring-fenced accrual of tax specifically for fixing leaks, which is rolled back when the leaks are fixed.

How do you pay nothing if you're using?

I don't pay income tax in Ireland

Tony EH

If you're not living in Ireland, then what the hell are you arguing for? Nothing better to do?

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't pay income tax in Ireland

So wait your entire argument against my scheme is that its flawed and you don't even pay income tax in Ireland, so you pay nothing anyway what kind of argument is that

Shin

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

If you're not living in Ireland, then what the hell are you arguing for? Nothing better to do?

I live in Ireland for half the year, also I like Ireland and I'm Irish.

Is that not good enough ?

What criteria do I need to meet ?

shinzon wrote: »

So wait your entire argument against my scheme is that its flawed and you don't even pay income tax in Ireland, so you pay nothing anyway what kind of argument is that

Shin

A valid one

My main issue is the service is terrible, I want to see it improved.

Tony EH

So, you live in Ireland for six months, therefore you'll be metered when you use the water.

So, you WILL be paying. Your:

In your solution I pay nothing

is wrong.

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

So, you live in Ireland for six months, therefore you'll be metered when you use the water.

So, you WILL be paying. Your:



is wrong.

Your solution is based on taxation.

In its current form I'd pay a flat charge for water.

Cantona's Collars

Has Enda & Co. come up with a Black Friday offer if you sign up today?

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

Your solution is based on taxation.

In its current form I'd pay a flat charge for water.

NO.

My alternative is a meter that's used to only meter what people are using, without all the added special extras costs and a ring-fenced "leakage fix" temporary tax.

YOU'LL still get metered and will pay for what you use in the 6 months you're here, so you do pay something.