IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

arse..biscuits

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

It is in your best interest to do so. Counterintuitive. And unpalatable. But the case. (Oh, and a good portion of thay debt is actually yours too).

It's not my debt.

michael999999

deco nate wrote: »

You do know thier Is nothing stopping the government from selling IW off, Yea?

Most likely to fine Gaels friend Denis o Brien!

SaveOurLyric

arse..biscuits wrote: »

It's not my debt.

They all say that in here. Still took the pay rises, low taxes, or business when they were on offer though. Nobody wants to hand them back.

deco nate

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That's a bit rich considering your general contribution. Look, I'm sorry I don't accept your completely groundless statements of "fact" or indulge in your circle jerk. You'll just have to get over it and try and post something that's not based solely on hysteria or blatant falsehood.

Again, I ask you do you want to add to the debate? Or are you just gonna keep posting guff like this? I'm gonna call you on it everytime I see you post from now on. I have added to the debate, I have yet to see you add a single point.

deco nate

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They all say that in here. Still took the pay rises, low taxes, or business when they were on offer though. Nobody wants to hand them back.

Tell me, we're are these pay rises you are talking about?
Wages have dropped for most people I know, yet cost of living has been on the rise.
Low taxes for some... Business costs are not cheap.

Wanna explain the costs involved?

deco nate

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Still not one shred of proof posted. Nothing but paranoia and political capitalising.

All the posts you just quoted
Were calling you out on your
Bland, middle of the road. Hey I'm saying nothing but I'll say something anyway cause I can posting.

Edit: he quoted 3 people and had nothing to add..

gladrags

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Only part of Bord Gáis is on the market. The rest, the gas network, is still a semi state body. Just like ESB networks and just like Irish Water. Of course, it is possible that the water supply market will be de-regulated in the distant future, but there is zero evidence to support that theory. I mean, the chance of FG being in power when it happens are slim so where is the incentive for them to set all this up?

That's a bit rich considering your general contribution. Look, I'm sorry I don't accept your completely groundless statements of "fact" or indulge in your circle jerk. You'll just have to get over it and try and post something that's not based solely on hysteria or blatant falsehood.

Fantastic

Pocoyo

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

What's the best flavoured water I can buy?

Fluoride.....Its so good you will pay for it twice!!

Little CuChulainn

deco nate wrote: »

Again, I ask you do you want to add to the debate? Or are you just gonna keep posting guff like this? I'm gonna call you on it everytime I see you post from now on. I have added to the debate, I have yet to see you add a single point.

That's because you only quoted half my post. In the first half I addressed the comparison to Bord Gais. There was a requirement to allow competition in the energy supply market. There is no such requirement for water. And the gas network still remains in government control.

Badger2009

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Electricity in this country is generated using mainly natural gas and coal. There is some renewable content but its a small percentage. These hydro-carbons are imported from abroad and as such have a large financial cost. Water on the other hand falls from the f*cking sky all year long.

Then get a bucket and tell irish water you do not want to be a customer and want to be disconnected.

If you're connected to a public sewer be careful how you manage your wastewater after they disconnect you. That stuff can turn nasty very quickly.

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

No but neither of those 2 are needed for life water is so it shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be bought and sold

Shin

You are mixing up a commodity with a service.

Providing clean potable water to your house is a service, depending on how much water you use (or waste) the amount of energy required to supply that water is greater.

Ireland uses mostly Gas Fired turbines for its Electricity needs, even more so now that there is a huge over supply of LNG.

The agitators, filters, pumps and UV Light systems used at the treatment plants use power, plenty of power.

Also the Vans, Trucks, Construction Equipment, Power Tools used by contractors for the water company use Diesel and Electricity.

Electricity and Gas are also necessary for life, because it it wasn't available, there wouldn't be running water coming from your tap.

This is the crux of the issue, people have taken water for granted for so long that as soon as they are put in a situation where they can see the direct costs for something then they go wild.

As I said already, my belief is the Implementation of Irish Water has been poorly done, but these things take time, Government bodies are notoriously bad at organising these transitions.

The more hands off the Government are running the service and more hands on they are with benchmarking and results, the better.

The perception in Ireland is if you don't see the charge and its comes out of general taxation then it's somehow cheaper/free.

If they see the cost directly, now it's somehow expensive.

Streetwalker

falan wrote: »

The usc brings in 4.5 to 5 billion a year. The water infrastructure will take 1.2 billion to fix so as far as I'm concerned they can take it out of that. David Cameron had the right idea a few weeks ago when they billed the UK. Told them to sing for it. We have to tell the Eu where to go.

Our political class like to bend over and offer up the lube to the EU. No chance of them growing a set.

Red Pepper

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They all say that in here. Still took the pay rises, low taxes, or business when they were on offer though. Nobody wants to hand them back.

Lets not forget that SaveOurLyric is the same guy that things Hubert Kearns and John Tierney were perfect for IW after the disasters they had with Sligo CoCo and Poolbeg respectively. His opinion is somewhat irrelevant.

Red Pepper

These 2 gentlemen come in for interview with these CVs...

Hubert Kearns (ex Council Manager Sligo, now Irish Water)
=> Left the Sligo council in debt of €80 million after hugely controversial 17 years in charge.
=> Quoted as saying "It's not the end of the world, nobody died"
=> Refused to attend council meetings in a dispute. Spent 50k hiring delegate to represent him.
=> Retired on massive payout and annual pension (think future motivation here)
=> When asked why his salary was more than the prime minister of Spain, responded "I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little"
=> Hated by the other Sligo councillors, only 1 attended his retirement party.

John Tierney (ex Dublin City Manager, now Irish Water)
=> Wasted €96m on the Poolbeg incinerator project
=> Appeared before the PAC because "this represents one of the most outrageous uses of public money, considering that not a single brick has been laid" (John McGuinness quote)
=> Poolbeg project: €32m has been spent on consultancy services
=> Poolbeg: More than €30m was spent relocating a firm that had its premises on the Dublin 4 site chosen for the incinerator.
=> Poolbeg: Mr Tierney's successor as Dublin City Manager, Owen Keegan, has banned any further spending on consultancy until the results of an EU investigation into complaints against the Poolbeg project are received.
=> Irish Water: €50m has been spent on consultancy services setting up secretive quango
=> IW: Oversaw bonus scheme for the company’s employees, which could see them earning up to 14% extra on top of their salaries even if their performance is under par.
=> IW: Managed a new company where operational policy is made up on the fly
=> IW: Managed a new company where the customer service ranges from the functional to the awful.
=> IW: The new company was overstaffed by approx 2000 local authority people who are endemically overpaid
=> IW: No apparent focus on water network renewal
=> IW: As a CEO considered extensive political interference with his role to be acceptable and became a puppet for the government.

Who else would have hired these guys?

Red Pepper

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.

The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.

“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been
accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.”

And Fergus O’Dowd went further calling for the entire board of Irish Water to be sacked on the spot. The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.

He added: “There are four-and-a-half thousand workers in Irish Water. They may be at least 1,000 overstaffed, maybe 2,000, overstaffed.

“But those people had jobs already and if they can’t be deployed in local government we have to offer a constructive way to get them off the payroll.

Red Pepper

Are there links to the previous IW threads on AH?

Red Pepper

6 weeks ago I was broadly in favour of usage based water charges and the setup of Irish Water. That has completely changed.

Why?

1. Because I naively believed the "New Politics". Then I learned more about Hubert Kearns, David O'Connor, Denis O'Brien
2. Because of the way underutilised local authority staff have been dumped into Irish Water to make it another bureaucracy similar to that other shocking organisation, the HSE
3. Because of the utter arrogance and duplicity of the government and IW managers in relation to charges, customer service and infrastructure renewal.
4. Because of the unbelievable bias by the Irish media primarily RTE and the Indo.

I found this post elsewhere, it's a good one.

Highflyer13

Red Pepper wrote: »

These 2 gentlemen come in for interview with these CVs...

Hubert Kearns (ex Council Manager Sligo, now Irish Water)
=> Left the Sligo council in debt of €80 million after hugely controversial 17 years in charge.
=> Quoted as saying "It's not the end of the world, nobody died"
=> Refused to attend council meetings in a dispute. Spent 50k hiring delegate to represent him.
=> Retired on massive payout and annual pension (think future motivation here)
=> When asked why his salary was more than the prime minister of Spain, responded "I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little"
=> Hated by the other Sligo councillors, only 1 attended his retirement party.

John Tierney (ex Dublin City Manager, now Irish Water)
=> Wasted €96m on the Poolbeg incinerator project
=> Appeared before the PAC because "this represents one of the most outrageous uses of public money, considering that not a single brick has been laid" (John McGuinness quote)
=> Poolbeg project: €32m has been spent on consultancy services
=> Poolbeg: More than €30m was spent relocating a firm that had its premises on the Dublin 4 site chosen for the incinerator.
=> Poolbeg: Mr Tierney's successor as Dublin City Manager, Owen Keegan, has banned any further spending on consultancy until the results of an EU investigation into complaints against the Poolbeg project are received.
=> Irish Water: €50m has been spent on consultancy services setting up secretive quango
=> IW: Oversaw bonus scheme for the company’s employees, which could see them earning up to 14% extra on top of their salaries even if their performance is under par.
=> IW: Managed a new company where operational policy is made up on the fly
=> IW: Managed a new company where the customer service ranges from the functional to the awful.
=> IW: The new company was overstaffed by approx 2000 local authority people who are endemically overpaid
=> IW: No apparent focus on water network renewal
=> IW: As a CEO considered extensive political interference with his role to be acceptable and became a puppet for the government.

Who else would have hired these guys?

Thats where he is wrong. People die indirectly from this type of waste. Whether it be on a hospital trolley, or at the side of the road due to service A&E/ ambulance, could be somebody who has taken their own live because lack of mental health services or on the streets of Dublin in the freezing cold because they have been made homeless.

The knock on effects of this type of incompetence and waste kills people.

Barely There

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The knock on effects of this type of incompetence and waste kills people.

So too does the knock on effect of people trying to weasel out of paying their taxes and charges.

Pocoyo

Barely There wrote: »

So too does the knock on effect of people trying to weasel out of paying their taxes and charges.

Every time i read ignorant comments such as these im convinced the poster is a childless jobless juvenile.

Its screams darkroom and xbox.

gladrags

Property tax will rise sharply in 2016/17

It is index linked ,and a price review will take place, the increase will reflect the increased price of houses.

According to RTE this morning rental accommodation is subject to indirect property tax.

RTE
Journal ie

Little CuChulainn

Red Pepper wrote: »

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.

The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.

“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been
accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.”

And Fergus O’Dowd went further calling for the entire board of Irish Water to be sacked on the spot. The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.

He added: “There are four-and-a-half thousand workers in Irish Water. They may be at least 1,000 overstaffed, maybe 2,000, overstaffed.

“But those people had jobs already and if they can’t be deployed in local government we have to offer a constructive way to get them off the payroll.

Does that mot indicate the efficiency of a national utility instead of numerous local ones? If all the local water workers were given jobs in IW and now it turns out there are 2000 too many, does that not indicate that IW can do the same job as the councils with half the staff?

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

So too does the knock on effect of people trying to weasel out of paying their taxes and charges.

:rolleyes:

Explain exactly what knock on effects would lead to deaths by not paying your taxes, and id like diagrams and a point by point please so were all clear on exactly what your on about

Shin

Little CuChulainn

shinzon wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Explain exactly what knock on effects would lead to deaths by not paying your taxes, and id like diagrams and a point by point please so were all clear on exactly what your on about

Shin

In the exact same way as the post he quoted.

Red Pepper

Barely There wrote: »

So too does the knock on effect of people trying to weasel out of paying their taxes and charges.

Barely is back!! Fantastic!!

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Does that mot indicate the efficiency of a national utility instead of numerous local ones? If all the local water workers were given jobs in IW and now it turns out there are 2000 too many, does that not indicate that IW can do the same job as the councils with half the staff?

:rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn

Red Pepper wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I understand. It's gone over your head. Don't worry, I'm sure one of your mates will be along to thank your post, completely avoid the point and make some inane comment about me.

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I understand. It's gone over your head. Don't worry, I'm sure one of your mates will be along to thank your post, completely avoid the point and make some inane comment about me.

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water said: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water. They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.” The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

Argue with above if you can.

suicide_circus

Red Pepper wrote: »

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.

The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.

“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been
accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.”

And Fergus O’Dowd went further calling for the entire board of Irish Water to be sacked on the spot. The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.

He added: “There are four-and-a-half thousand workers in Irish Water. They may be at least 1,000 overstaffed, maybe 2,000, overstaffed.

“But those people had jobs already and if they can’t be deployed in local government we have to offer a constructive way to get them off the payroll.

Kind of an awkward situation there.

Even if irish water is scrapped, the entire staff will have to be redeployed within the civil service somewhere else, still being paid by the tax payer to do fcuk all. No money saved.

Pocoyo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I understand. It's gone over your head. Don't worry, 'm sure one of your mates will be along to thank your post, completely avoid the point and make some inane comment about me.

You sir dont even know what you are arguing for anymore.

Are you employed BTW?

Do you have a partner and kids?