IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Little CuChulainn

Red Pepper wrote: »

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water said: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water. They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.” The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

Argue with above if you can.

You mean the guy who set it up and then got demoted wants other peoples heads to roll for it? I'm shocked.

Pocoyo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You mean the guy who set it up and then got demoted wants other peoples heads to roll for it? I'm shocked.

The very fact that hes the one making the statement is even more damaging to your argument. :rolleyes:

yipeeeee

suicide_circus wrote: »

Kind of an awkward situation there.

Even if irish water is scrapped, the entire staff will have to be redeployed within the civil service somewhere else, still being paid by the tax payer to do fcuk all. No money saved.

All part of the job for life shambles in the public sector.

Satriale

donvito99 wrote: »

You accuse Inda of being mentally lacking, yet your manner of writing would make Jack Torrance proud.

donvito99 wrote: »

I'm afraid that's easier said than done.

You like so many others here seem to think that writing like a chimp with a broken keyboard is in any way decipherable.

Whats with all the grammar nazi and posting style sh1te? Is this the sum total of your argument with the protestors?

yipeeeee wrote: »

Do you have to sign off with shin after each post!!??

There's a mod in politics who does that, i've seen you post there, but strangely ive never seen you, or any of the crew who thanked you, say that to him.

Pocoyo

Enda meets Simon cowell.

Satriale

suicide_circus wrote: »

Kind of an awkward situation there.

Even if irish water is scrapped, the entire staff will have to be redeployed within the civil service somewhere else, still being paid by the tax payer to do fcuk all. No money saved.

Put them on garden leave and cut our losses , malingerers only slow down people who actually want to work.

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You mean the guy who set it up and then got demoted wants other peoples heads to roll for it? I'm shocked.

Lame duck. So you think Fergus is incorrect?

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Explain exactly what knock on effects would lead to deaths by not paying your taxes, and id like diagrams and a point by point please so were all clear on exactly what your on about

Shin

There's already a book on the subject
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Oe2QOElXtOkC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=public+health+and+unpaid+taxes&source=bl&ots=7OFo2mv2sI&sig=Pno_Or-lLY7KoAyb8pJNbihPTeI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=thF7VKK3BozsO9nugagF&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAzgU

I thought you explained it yourself ?

shinzon wrote: »

Seriously I have no idea what your on about, under progressive taxation everyone pays under ability to pay its as simple as that you can twist it into whatever imaginary thought you think I was making

but ill say it again everyone pays

Shin

Going on about paying for Water in some progressive taxation system

shinzon wrote: »

No but neither of those 2 are needed for life water is so it shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be bought and sold

Shin

Then saying its needed for life

shinzon wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Explain exactly what knock on effects would lead to deaths by not paying your taxes, and id like diagrams and a point by point please so were all clear on exactly what your on about

Shin

Following by this ??

donvito99

Satriale wrote: »

Whats with all the grammar nazi and posting style sh1te? Is this the sum total of your argument with the protestors?

I've made my points many, many times before. And it is worthwhile highlighting that the argument's of many on here follows the following structure;

* Call the poster an idiot
* Mention Denis O'Briens involvement
* Say that the poster is a lemming, follower of the status quo, west-Brit
* Smilie

Pocoyo

We have them on the ropes lads.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/fear-at-heart-of-coalition-as-judgment-day-looms-30785008.html

'When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

The above quotation has been attributed to Thomas Jefferson and in my view a dose of the first part of this statement is long overdue, as we have had more than our share of the latter part from our government and its agencies in the the form our massive and increasingly intrusive state bureaucracy/quangocracy.'

Highflyer13

Barely There wrote: »

So too does the knock on effect of people trying to weasel out of paying their taxes and charges.

So too does lumping extra taxes and charges on people who cannot afford it and struggling to cope to cover up for shockingly bad governance by successive corrupt governments over the years.The tipping point has been reached. Only so far you can push people.

donvito99

Pocoyo wrote: »

We have them on the ropes lads.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/fear-at-heart-of-coalition-as-judgment-day-looms-30785008.html

'When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

The above quotation has been attributed to Thomas Jefferson and in my view a dose of the first part of this statement is long overdue, as we have had more than our share of the latter part from our government and its agencies in the the form our massive and increasingly intrusive state bureaucracy/quangocracy.'

Eh, that's the DENINDO O'Brien rag. We know it can't be trusted...

Also, that reads like every arts student's essay ever, and I wouldn't be too quick to attribute those words to Tomás Jefferson, sonny.

Little CuChulainn

Red Pepper wrote: »

Lame duck. So you think Fergus is incorrect?

If you are asking if I think the setting up of Irish Water was done very poorly then I do. And I'm happy the boards has been stood down and the elected officials responsible have face, or will face, political consequence. What's done is done though, none of that is a reason to close down Irish Water as long as the mistakes are fixed.

But of course, none of that is relevant to the point I raised. It's merely a deflection by you. I stated that if all the employees working on water for local councils were given jobs with IW and Iw is currently 2000 overstaffed, does that not mean that a national body can do the work of all the councils with much greater efficiency?

arse..biscuits

Badger2009 wrote: »

Then get a bucket and tell irish water you do not want to be a customer and want to be disconnected.

If you're connected to a public sewer be careful how you manage your wastewater after they disconnect you. That stuff can turn nasty very quickly.

I already have both my toilets fed from rain water and have 3000 litres of RW storage so I barely use mains water.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

There's already a book on the subject
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Oe2QOElXtOkC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=public+health+and+unpaid+taxes&source=bl&ots=7OFo2mv2sI&sig=Pno_Or-lLY7KoAyb8pJNbihPTeI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=thF7VKK3BozsO9nugagF&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAzgU

I thought you explained it yourself ?



Going on about paying for Water in some progressive taxation system



Then saying its needed for life



Following by this ??

What in the name of god are you on about what has progressive tax or any tax got to do with deaths by not paying your taxes, you sure your not getting debts mixed up with deaths

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

What in the name of god are you on about what has progressive tax or any tax got to do with deaths by not paying your taxes, you sure your not getting debts mixed up with deaths

Shin

You say water is necessary for life, it should be paid for by taxes and then allude to the notion that not paying your taxes has no impact on the life giving service.

Can you not see the paradox there ?

gladrags

Dukes pukes on Irish Water..

Says he,from his seat on Anglo,or is it AIB.?

"Former Fine Gael leader Alan Dukes has said the Government had made a "god-awful" mess of Irish Water.

Hundreds more people took to the streets yesterday to protest against water charges, ahead of a national demonstration on December 10.

Alan Dukes said he thought the Government would keep the current system until a more coherent approach could be formulated.

"A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water," he said. "We've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together.

"The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place."

michael999999

gladrags wrote: »

Dukes pukes on Irish Water..

Says he,from his seat on Anglo,or is it AIB.?

"Former Fine Gael leader Alan Dukes has said the Government had made a "god-awful" mess of Irish Water.

Hundreds more people took to the streets yesterday to protest against water charges, ahead of a national demonstration on December 10.

Alan Dukes said he thought the Government would keep the current system until a more coherent approach could be formulated.

"A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water," he said. "We've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together.

"The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place."

Snouts in the trough!

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

You say water is necessary for life, it should be paid for by taxes and then allude to the notion that not paying your taxes has no impact on the life giving service.

Can you not see the paradox there ?

Not sure where you getting that out of any of my posts but sure work away whatever floats your boat and all that

I wont die by not paying my electricity, I wont die by not paying the gas bill, I wont die by not paying my water charge as I already pay for it through taxation

So I ask again has anyone through the entire history of the world died by not paying there taxes

Simple answer is no

Shin

branie2

Coming home on the bus on Friday, I saw an Irish Water barrier pushed up against the front gate of a house

branie2

Unfortunately, I didn't

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Not sure where you getting that out of any of my posts but sure work away whatever floats your boat and all that

I wont die by not paying my electricity, I wont die by not paying the gas bill, I wont die by not paying my water charge as I already pay for it through taxation

So I ask again has anyone through the entire history of the world died by not paying there taxes

Simple answer is no

Shin

Already pay for it in taxes you say, still banging that drum, water supply is a fixed cost I guess.

BTW ... In China they had the death penalty for tax evasion, is that direct enough for you ?

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Already pay for it in taxes you say, still banging that drum, water supply is a fixed cost I guess

Why would I bang on about it oh wait because its true

Shin

Going Forward

Red Pepper wrote: »

These 2 gentlemen come in for interview with these CVs...

Hubert Kearns (ex Council Manager Sligo, now Irish Water)
=> Left the Sligo council in debt of €80 million after hugely controversial 17 years in charge.
=> Quoted as saying "It's not the end of the world, nobody died"
=> Refused to attend council meetings in a dispute. Spent 50k hiring delegate to represent him.
=> Retired on massive payout and annual pension (think future motivation here)
=> When asked why his salary was more than the prime minister of Spain, responded "I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little"
=> Hated by the other Sligo councillors, only 1 attended his retirement party.

John Tierney (ex Dublin City Manager, now Irish Water)
=> Wasted €96m on the Poolbeg incinerator project
=> Appeared before the PAC because "this represents one of the most outrageous uses of public money, considering that not a single brick has been laid" (John McGuinness quote)
=> Poolbeg project: €32m has been spent on consultancy services
=> Poolbeg: More than €30m was spent relocating a firm that had its premises on the Dublin 4 site chosen for the incinerator.
=> Poolbeg: Mr Tierney's successor as Dublin City Manager, Owen Keegan, has banned any further spending on consultancy until the results of an EU investigation into complaints against the Poolbeg project are received.
=> Irish Water: €50m has been spent on consultancy services setting up secretive quango
=> IW: Oversaw bonus scheme for the company’s employees, which could see them earning up to 14% extra on top of their salaries even if their performance is under par.
=> IW: Managed a new company where operational policy is made up on the fly
=> IW: Managed a new company where the customer service ranges from the functional to the awful.
=> IW: The new company was overstaffed by approx 2000 local authority people who are endemically overpaid
=> IW: No apparent focus on water network renewal
=> IW: As a CEO considered extensive political interference with his role to be acceptable and became a puppet for the government.

Who else would have hired these guys?

Only one of them works for Irish Water.

John Tierney.

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Why would I bang on about it oh wait because its true

Shin

At the moment. How does that cover the future cost ?

Edit:
*Actually the screenshot in that video really highlights why it needs to be a semi state company with direct metering and direct costs, at least then ongoing future costs are accounted for.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

At the moment. How does that cover the future cost ?

dude in all honesty do we have to go round and round and round again and again and again. I don't agree with Irish Water and water charges have never done and will never do. we pay 1.2 billion a year towards water as it stands, that isn't going to magically disappear when we start paying for water and please don't say to me that itll go elsewhere you argued that point already and I disagree there also

If the government was really and truly serious about a Irish water being the only revenue stream for water then commensurately they should get rid of the tax that were already paying for it and not cloud it in some fancy well use it for something else GUFF

get rid of it and I might just listen to anything they have to say about IW and charges but that's not going to happen so they can run and jump off a cliff as far as im concerned

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

dude in all honesty do we have to go round and round and round again and again and again. I don't agree with Irish Water and water charges have never done and will never do. we pay 1.2 billion a year towards water as it stands, that isn't going to magically disappear when we start paying for water and please don't say to me that itll go elsewhere you argued that point already and I disagree there also

If the government was really and truly serious about a Irish water being the only revenue stream for water then commensurately they should get rid of the tax that were already paying for it and not cloud it in some fancy well use it for something else GUFF

get rid of it and I might just listen to anything they have to say about IW and charges but that's not going to happen so they can run and jump off a cliff as far as im concerned

Shin

Well that's interesting, I wonder how they will hide 1.2 billion euros, would they bury it in a field, do you think they got some ideas from Love/Hate ?

What exactly do you think will happen to it ?

Or perhaps it means the country has to borrow less and it can put more money into areas that need it, like the Healthcare, Education, The Gardai or Social Welfare perhaps.

You know, like areas that really need it.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Social Welfare perhaps.

You know, like areas that really need it.

Until somebody links me a plan or document or ministerial declaration that that money the 1.2 billion specifically for water is earmarked for something else ill assume its not just as your assuming it is

Oh and friendly bit of advice dont mention the social welfare round here jaysus the thoughts of helping them dissident unemployed scrounging protestors Christ what are ye thinking trying to help them out at all

Shin

ROCKMAN

keithclancy wrote: »

Well that's interesting, I wonder how they will hide 1.2 billion euros, would they bury it in a field, do you think they got some ideas from Love/Hate ?

What exactly do you think will happen to it ?

Or perhaps it means the country has to borrow less and it can put more money into areas that need it, like the Healthcare, Education, The Gardai or Social Welfare perhaps.

You know, like areas that really need it.

No the plan is to actually borrow MORE , ok "off balance sheet" or in real terms a quick accountancy trick. But they are still borrowing ,Alright it will be IW borrowing but who will be still accountable for this loans if things go pear shaped, the Irish people.

keithclancy

ROCKMAN wrote: »

No the plan is to actually borrow MORE , ok "off balance sheet" or in real terms a quick accountancy trick. But they are still borrowing ,Alright it will be IW borrowing but who will be still accountable for this loans if things go pear shaped, the Irish people.

I know that already ... Said it many many posts back