IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Little CuChulainn

shinzon wrote: »

If the government was really and truly serious about a Irish water being the only revenue stream for water then commensurately they should get rid of the tax that were already paying for it and not cloud it in some fancy well use it for something else GUFF

They could start with lowering income tax and usc rates. Oh wait, that's been done. Perhaps some lower VAT rates? What's that? They've done that in the hospitality industry already? What tax are you looking for them to reduce again?

shinzon

Or perhaps it means the country has to borrow less and it can put more

If you knew it then why did you say this, you seem happy to argue the toss and spit out stuff like this yet when someone pulls you up on something you row back with a wink

You seem to only have conviction when you think you can get away with it

Shin

Little CuChulainn

ROCKMAN wrote: »

No the plan is to actually borrow MORE , ok "off balance sheet" or in real terms a quick accountancy trick. But they are still borrowing ,Alright it will be IW borrowing but who will be still accountable for this loans if things go pear shaped, the Irish people.

Eh no. Such is the benefit of having a limited company. The company is it's own seperate legal entity and the shareholders are not held accountable for it's debts.

shinzon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They could start with lowering income tax and usc rates. Oh wait, that's been done. Perhaps some lower VAT rates? What's that? They've done that in the hospitality industry already? What tax are you looking for them to reduce again?

And how did they pull off this very minor miracle that leaves very few better off then before, oh yeah they added more money to the debt by borrowing more money to pay for all that

Same **** arguments different day

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

If you knew it then why did you say this, you seem happy to argue the toss and spit out stuff like this yet when someone pulls you up on something you row back with a wink

You seem to only have conviction when you think you can get away with it

Shin

I've made it quite clear that not paying by usage will mean the Taxpayer will have to top it up if it falls short on funds.

Your suggestion of scrapping it altogether would increase this cost even more.

Pocoyo

keithclancy wrote: »

Your suggestion of scrapping it altogether would increase this cost even more.

I will accept the small term loss in return for the assured nationalization of irelands water infrastructure,I will not be held to ransom over a future personal water bill that i believe will no doubt end up in the 500 plus euro region,The water system must be returned to the local authorities to avoid privatization.

I envisage that the next government of ireland will share or erase irelands debt to the point where this lost investment in IW is small potatoes.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

I've made it quite clear that not paying by usage will mean the Taxpayer will have to top it up if it falls short on funds.

Your suggestion of scrapping it altogether would increase this cost even more.

You seem to be drinking from Endas koolaid, his 4% increase in income tax was a scare tactic that had holes blown in it from every quarter, id prefer a marginal tax increase if an increase is indeed needed then the feed the monster numbers that will happen once the cap is lifted if water charges are allowed to go ahead

Shin

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But of course, none of that is relevant to the point I raised. It's merely a deflection by you. I stated that if all the employees working on water for local councils were given jobs with IW and Iw is currently 2000 overstaffed, does that not mean that a national body can do the work of all the councils with much greater efficiency?

You're clearing missing the point. The point has been made several times already. When the HSE was created, the original plan was to lay off thousands of employees from the 9 health boards to benefit from the centralised savings and efficiencies. However Martin & Harney lost their nerve on the redundancies and this created a hugely inefficient bureaucracy which is not fit for purpose.

The creation of Irish Water should have learned from the HSE disaster but instead has repeated the same mistakes. The people "working" in water sections in the councils should not have been transferred unless they were really needed. There should have been efficiency savings in terms of redundancies but this cowardly FF-lite government lost their nerve again. The government also saw a chance to reduce the official number of local authority public servants and flooded them into IW.

Little CuChulainn

shinzon wrote: »

And how did they pull off this very minor miracle that leaves very few better off then before, oh yeah they added more money to the debt by borrowing more money to pay for all that

Same **** arguments different day

Shin

You've quite the circular argument there.

Red Pepper

keithclancy wrote: »

Your suggestion of scrapping it altogether would increase this cost even more.

Future mediocre governments will be inspired by your thinking.

falan

Dunno if this was posted. Its about the water war in Bolivia that led to the entire political order being overthrown. Interesting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/water-war-in-bolivia-led-eventually-to-overthrow-of-entire-political-order-1.2004444

Going Forward

Red Pepper wrote: »

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.

The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.

“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been
accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.”

And Fergus O’Dowd went further calling for the entire board of Irish Water to be sacked on the spot. The Fine Gael TD wants “heads to roll” at the blundering State firm.

And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.

He added: “There are four-and-a-half thousand workers in Irish Water. They may be at least 1,000 overstaffed, maybe 2,000, overstaffed.

“But those people had jobs already and if they can’t be deployed in local government we have to offer a constructive way to get them off the payroll.

Fergus is simply trying to put as much distance between Irish Water and himself as possible.
Rodents and ships going down, same kind of thing.

donvito99

Red Pepper wrote: »

Future mediocre governments will be inspired by your thinking.

I'll take mediocrity over catastrophe thank you very much.

Pocoyo

falan wrote: »

Dunno if this was posted. Its about the water war in Bolivia that led to the entire political order being overthrown. Interesting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/water-war-in-bolivia-led-eventually-to-overthrow-of-entire-political-order-1.2004444

When you get time give this a gander.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93244487&postcount=4069

UCDVet

Two e-mails and a phone call and IW can't tell me if I'm a customer. They want me to tell them if my apartment is connected to the main lines and where the waste water goes. I dunno how I'm meant to know this?

Very frustrating that they don't know/won't tell me, if they've installed a meter for my apartment, my building or what. I did try to contact my landlord (but I deal with a property manager, who gave me the run around and basically said the landlord doesn't know?).

Red Pepper

Going Forward wrote: »

Fergus is simply trying to put as much distance between Irish Water and himself as possible.
Rodents and ships going down, same kind of thing.

He was a minister!
Says it all.

falan

Pocoyo wrote: »

When you get time give this a gander.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93244487&postcount=4069

Thanks, i'll give it a watch tomorrow, looks good.

Red Pepper

donvito99 wrote: »

I'll take mediocrity over catastrophe thank you very much.

Ah please. That's loser talk.

Going Forward

Pocoyo wrote: »

I will accept the small term loss in return for the assured nationalization of irelands water infrastructure,I will not be held to ransom over a future personal water bill that i believe will no doubt end up in the 500 plus euro region,The water system must be returned to the local authorities to avoid privatization.

I envisage that the next government of ireland will share or erase irelands debt to the point where this lost investment in IW is small potatoes.

It won't have to be privatised for bills to reach 500 euro, because the exchequer funding of Irish Water us set to reduce over time, along with the possible reduction or withdrawal of the "Conservation payment".

donvito99

Red Pepper wrote: »

Ah please. That's loser talk.

We're all losers if a Gov is formed of FF, SF and a whole load of Socialists.

Barely There

Going Forward wrote: »

It won't have to be privatised for bills to reach 500 euro, because the exchequer funding of Irish Water us set to reduce over time, along with the possible reduction or withdrawal of the "Conservation payment".

I know, it's a fantastic prospect isn't it?

I'd imagine the dole scroungers must be terrified at the thought of not having their water pair for by the rest of us though.

Going Forward

UCDVet wrote: »

Two e-mails and a phone call and IW can't tell me if I'm a customer. They want me to tell them if my apartment is connected to the main lines and where the waste water goes. I dunno how I'm meant to know this?

Very frustrating that they don't know/won't tell me, if they've installed a meter for my apartment, my building or what. I did try to contact my landlord (but I deal with a property manager, who gave me the run around and basically said the landlord doesn't know?).

My powers of deduction tell me that you don't have a well or a septic tank.

I'd say you'd be a an ideal customer, go for it, if there's a mistake you'll probably get a refund.;)

shinzon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You've quite the circular argument there.

As this entire thread has become and the 2 before it put simply people want water charges and a bigger cohort don't want water charges

And the reasons are the same every single time, never get anywhere never solves anything

Round and round it goes with nothing being solved just the same auld ****e arguments

thread should have been abandoned after the first thread was closed as theres nothing new to be added, but im sure it will continue on for another 1000 posts

Shin

Little CuChulainn

shinzon wrote: »

As this entire thread has become and the 2 before it put simply people want water charges and a bigger cohort don't want water charges

And the reasons are the same every single time, never get anywhere never solves anything

Round and round it goes with nothing being solved just the same auld ****e arguments

thread should have been abandoned after the first thread was closed as theres nothing new to be added, but im sure it will continue on for another 1000 posts

Shin

I'm talking about your argument specifically. You say water charges would have to be offset by tax reductions. When they are you say the tax reductions only increase our debt. How do we decrease our debt? With things like water charges. You are like the poster child for the never satisfied.

Pocoyo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm talking about your argument specifically. You say water charges would have to be offset by tax reductions. When they are you say the tax reductions only increase our debt. How do we decrease our debt? With things like water charges. You are like the poster child for the never satisfied.

By writing off indefensible/unsustainable debt maybe??

By putting the citizens of ireland before the citizens of france/germany unlike your lying god king Enda Kenny is currently doing even though he previously promised otherwise.

keithclancy

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm talking about your argument specifically. You say water charges would have to be offset by tax reductions. When they are you say the tax reductions only increase our debt. How do we decrease our debt? With things like water charges. You are like the poster child for the never satisfied.

Next post will be

"We already paid"

or

"Kill Irish Water"

or

"Progressive Tax"

:rolleyes:

And then

Shin.

Banjo String

donvito99 wrote: »

We're all losers if a Gov is formed of FF, SF and a whole load of Socialists.

Barely There wrote: »

I know, it's a fantastic prospect isn't it?

I'd imagine the dole scroungers must be terrified at the thought of not having their water pair for by the rest of us though.

Change the record lads.

Please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6p1Ck0ab80

keithclancy

Pocoyo wrote: »

By writing off indefensible/unsustainable debt maybe??

By putting the citizens of ireland before the citizens of france/germany unlike your lying god king Enda Kenny is currently doing even though he previously promised otherwise.

I guess there are no French or German Citizens paying taxes in Ireland then.

Why not have a go at the Belgians while you are at it, they are the lowest net contributor to the EU.

shinzon

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm talking about your argument specifically. You say water charges would have to be offset by tax reductions. When they are you say the tax reductions only increase our debt. How do we decrease our debt? With things like water charges. You are like the poster child for the never satisfied.

the government borrowed the money and added to our debt to pull off a minor improvement in some peoples pay packets, our debts been added to already whether theres a tax reduction or not

Debt is Debt no matter what way you dress it up, trying to get people to fall for an election stunt is one sure way of adding to it

Shin

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

I know, it's a fantastic prospect isn't it?

I'd imagine the dole scroungers must be terrified at the thought of not having their water pair for by the rest of us though.

Everytime and I mean everytime you post crap like this im posting this vid might get some sense into you