IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Red Pepper

I have completely changed my mind.
I no longer want Irish Water abolished.
Dukes is right, IW will limp along until "some sort of coherent system is put in place", which may be never.

In the meantime IW shows people on a daily basis what is wrong with Irish politics and the permanent government.
This one utility company was given a simple enough tasks; to manage water assets and bill for water usage.
Somehow they have created a god-awful mess which encapsulates everything that is wrong with Irish politics, the public service and the permanent government
e.g.
Blatant Cronyism, Huge Overstaffing, Rediculous bonus scheme which protecting the underperforming, Endemic waste, Woeful customer service, Scattered operational policy, Exceptionally poor leadership, Poor public relations, Lack of longterm vision etc etc

Let Irish Water survive and continue to inspire us!

yipeeeee

gladrags wrote: »

One of the hallmarks of a civilized society is a basic living standard...

A house over your head., it goes back to the earliest recorded Sumerian society.

There was,and is, no excuse, thousands of houses are lying vacant.

Politicians and State run bodies, directly caused this timebomb.

No one was regulating, or setting simple basic priorities, on behalf of the electorate.

Reach.ie are now reporting that an increasing amount of tenants in the private sector, are fearing homelessness, as a result of the non existance, of affordable accommodation.

Like FF before them, FG and labour have looked on, while prices have left so many homeless, and in despair.

As with Irish Water, the horse has bolted.

How would you like to live in emergency accommodation?

AS I have said, it is a civilized right, to a home.

Not property btw, a home.

Ok but you will find homelessness in 99% of countries and cities across the world.

There is no quick fix to the problem, many countries have tried and failed, what makes you think the Irish government could and should have the solution??

donvito99

jaysus you'd swear Enda left his office after work and strangled the poor soul by some of the stuff touted on here.

BoatMad

gladrags wrote: »

One of the hallmarks of a civilized society is a basic living standard...

A house over your head., it goes back to the earliest recorded Sumerian society.

There was,and is, no excuse, thousands of houses are lying vacant.

Politicians and State run bodies, directly caused this timebomb.

No one was regulating, or setting simple basic priorities, on behalf of the electorate.

Reach.ie are now reporting that an increasing amount of tenants in the private sector, are fearing homelessness, as a result of the non existance, of affordable accommodation.

Like FF before them, FG and labour have looked on, while prices have left so many homeless, and in despair.

As with Irish Water, the horse has bolted.

How would you like to live in emergency accommodation?

AS I have said, it is a civilized right, to a home.

Not property btw, a home.

While your heart is in a good place, these are extremely naive comments. The "time bomb" you mentioned is a very complex interaction of issues, and cannot be explained by blaming "Politicans and State run Bodies"

BoatMad

Chucken wrote: »

What? You think the government will get revenue to collect money for a bill I never signed up for? Well, thats a bit odd dont you think?

I wont pay it. Just wait until April and see what happens

Once you arnt taking any water or using the public sewage system, of course you will not pay,


outside that , you are consuming the product and you will have to pay

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

Oh you will.

Right lets review Paul Mckennas quote up there, everyone knows that the property tax was taken from everyones wages or social welfare by revenue, so irregardless of whether you wanted to pay or not you paid.

Myth one gone up in smoke

Now onto late fees etc etc, let them rack up, Alan Kelly has said no ones pressure will be reduced or indeed cut off, John Tierney envisages no one going to court the only time it would affect anyone is if you were moving house so not going to affect me or the vast majority of people, just stay put rack it up and still have your water

Only complete plonkers and party sheep would still pay the water charge after that.

Shin

steamengine

Red Pepper wrote: »

I have completely changed my mind.
I no longer want Irish Water abolished.
Dukes is right, IW will limp along until "some sort of coherent system is put in place, which may be never.

In the meantime IW shows people on a daily basis what is wrong with Irish politics and the permanent government.
This one utility company was given a simple enough tasks; to manage water assets and bill for water usage.
Somehow they have created a god-awful mess which encapsulates everything that is wrong with Irish politics, the public service and the permanent government
e.g.
Blatant Cronyism, Huge Overstaffing, Rediculous bonus scheme which protecting the underperforming, Endemic waste, Woeful customer service, Scattered operational policy, Exceptionally poor leadership, Poor public relations, Lack of longterm vision etc etc

Let Irish Water survive and continue to inspire us!

Inspirational stuff ok - 40% leaks in the system and 500 million+ thrown at it to date. All for an entity which will be able to borrow more big bucks to fix the leaks - as the song says:

'There's a hole in the bucket - Dear Henry Dear Henry'
'With what shall I fix it - dear Lisa dear lisa'
'With a f...king fortune - dear Henry dear Henry'

BoatMad

shinzon wrote: »

Right lets review Paul Mckennas quote up there, everyone knows that the property tax was taken from everyones wages or social welfare by revenue, so irregardless of whether you wanted to pay or not you paid.

Myth one gone up in smoke

Now onto late fees etc etc, let them rack up, Alan Kelly has said no ones pressure will be reduced or indeed cut off, John Tierney envisages no one going to court the only time it would affect anyone is if you were moving house so not going to affect me or the vast majority of people, just stay put rack it up and still have your water

Only complete plonkers and party sheep would still pay the water charge after that.

Shin

The vast majority of people, do not want solicitors letters or risk being dragged into court, ultimately they ( and all of us) will pay. who wants to end up with thousands of euros building up against the house.

Yes a few diehards will stick it out, but most will pay.


That issue is dead IMHO, IW is another issue altogether

shinzon

BoatMad wrote: »

The vast majority of people, do not want solicitors letters or risk being dragged into court, ultimately they ( and all of us) will pay. who wants to end up with thousands of euros building up against the house.

Yes a few diehards will stick it out, but most will pay.


That issue is dead IMHO, IW is another issue altogether

Glad you've resolved that issue for the minority there being all dead in the water and everything, good you came to a conclusion on that :rolleyes:

What solicitors letters hes already said that he envisages no one going to court and a mass campaign of non payment come april will put paid to any court action they cant bring all of those that don't pay to court

Curious you single out Irish water and yet will freely hand over the money when the time comes and theres no risk they will levy money against the property but if your not moving house who gives a monkeys.

Shin

Chucken

BoatMad wrote: »

Once you arnt taking any water or using the public sewage system, of course you will not pay,


outside that , you are consuming the product and you will have to pay

Once again, we already pay for water.

I will not pay one cent to IW.

shinzon

Irish Water exempt from state board guidelines brought in by the government, also Bord Gais, Coillte and Ervia and Eirgrid

https://www.facebook.com/655857524434664/photos/a.655975111089572.1073741827.655857524434664/867582473262167/?type=1&theatre

Shin

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

Now onto late fees etc etc, let them rack up, Alan Kelly has said no ones pressure will be reduced or indeed cut off, John Tierney envisages no one going to court the only time it would affect anyone is if you were moving house so not going to affect me or the vast majority of people, just stay put rack it up and still have your water

Only complete plonkers and party sheep would still pay the water charge after that.

Shin

Luckily society is not composed of people with your particular viewpoint, otherwise there wouldn't be any social infrastructure in the first place for leeches to parasite off.

BTW - your cunning plan above will only work if you plan on dying in the house you're in now - in which case your children will be stuck with the bill you've racked up.

Not that you'll mind I'm sure.

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

Luckily society is not composed of people with your particular viewpoint, otherwise there wouldn't be any social infrastructure in the first place for leeches to parasite off.

BTW - your cunning plan above will only work if you plan on dying in the house you're in now - in which case your children will be stuck with the bill you've racked up.

Not that you'll mind I'm sure.

Ill just add that I don't have any children to pass any debt onto, and once IW is dead and buried it wont make any difference

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Irish Water exempt from state board guidelines brought in by the government, also Bord Gais, Coillte and Ervia and Eirgrid

https://www.facebook.com/655857524434664/photos/a.655975111089572.1073741827.655857524434664/867582473262167/?type=1&theatre

Shin

Another Irish Mirror article.

The quality of your sources are impeccable.

Why don't you just post a link to some breasts and an article about how aliens stole your underpants.

Cantona's Collars

shinzon wrote: »

Irish Water exempt from state board guidelines brought in by the government, also Bord Gais, Coillte and Ervia and Eirgrid

https://www.facebook.com/655857524434664/photos/a.655975111089572.1073741827.655857524434664/867582473262167/?type=1&theatre

Shin

It just gets better & better with this crowd,you wouldn't see it in some tinpot ruled country.

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Irish Water exempt from state board guidelines brought in by the government, also Bord Gais, Coillte and Ervia and Eirgrid

https://www.facebook.com/655857524434664/photos/a.655975111089572.1073741827.655857524434664/867582473262167/?type=1&theatre

Shin

They're not state boards are they? They're private companies?

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Another Irish Mirror article.

The quality of your sources are impeccable.

Why don't you just post a link to some breasts and an article about how aliens stole your underpants.

Doesn't make it any less valid a point just because its in a red top. Link me an article where it says they aren't exempt then

Shin

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

They're not state boards are they? They're private companies?

Its a grey area because they come under the new era grouping of companies that came into being in 2011 under the NTMA who apparently manage the shares the government has in semi states obviously the get out clause.

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Doesn't make it any less valid a point just because its in a red top. Link me an article where it says they aren't exempt then

Shin

Hang on ... you post a link to a facebook page that has a picture of a snipped article from the Mirror.

And I have to prove you wrong ? :pac::pac::pac:

Do you read the Daily Fail also ?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The vast majority of people, do not want solicitors letters or risk being dragged into court, ultimately they ( and all of us) will pay. who wants to end up with thousands of euros building up against the house.

Yes a few diehards will stick it out, but most will pay.


That issue is dead IMHO, IW is another issue altogether

pretty lazy attitude if thats the case........

if we moan about charges, taxes, levies then turn over and pay them anyway its a form of apathy. I was talking to my daughter the other day (both my daughters emigrated this year - yeah yeah the numbers on the live register are down - go figure!!!) and was saying that people are trying to change the country and make it an affordable place for her generation to return to and try live in the country they were born and educated in.....

I hope opposing this final nail in the coffin might speak of the frustration and desperation of a lot of us in this country.

BoatMad

shinzon wrote: »

Irish Water exempt from state board guidelines brought in by the government, also Bord Gais, Coillte and Ervia and Eirgrid

https://www.facebook.com/655857524434664/photos/a.655975111089572.1073741827.655857524434664/867582473262167/?type=1&theatre

Shin

perhpas you might read more then the first search term on your searches on Google

"
A spokesperson for the Department said New Era companies “are covered by the guidelines in a manner that recognises New Era’s existing statutory role as the shareholder’s advisor”"

source :http://www.thejournal.ie/state-board-appointments-1801611-Nov2014/

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Hang on ... you post a link to a facebook page that has a picture of a snipped article from the Mirror.

And I have to prove you wrong ? :pac::pac::pac:

Do you read the Daily Fail also ?

in a word yes you obviously dont believe the article in question cause its in a red top, so unless your prepared to back up that up with links showing me there not exempt that all I can surmise is your trolling.

Again if there isn't truth in it they can face liable law suits which can be very expensive

Shin

Breffnigolfer

What's a "liable law suit"? Is it serious?

shinzon

BoatMad wrote: »

A spokesperson for the Department

yeah I stopped reading at that

Shin

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

pretty lazy attitude if thats the case........

if we moan about charges, taxes, levies then turn over and pay them anyway its a form of apathy. I was talking to my daughter the other day (both my daughters emigrated this year - yeah yeah the numbers on the live register are down - go figure!!!) and was saying that people are trying to change the country and make it an affordable place for her generation to return to and try live in the country they were born and educated in.....

I hope opposing this final nail in the coffin might speak of the frustration and desperation of a lot of us in this country.

with the greatest respect and I also have two children aboard, what emigrants say is of little consequence. ( They are leaving). The number on the live registers are not down as a result of emigration, they are as a result of net job creation. Why do you look for doom and gloom everywhere.

Equally I had one child return home 3 weeks ago and got a job in 3 days and an apartment place in centre Dublin. !!! Like everything, its not quite as you read about it !.

The main trust of people initial anger was the confusion and potential amounts people would have to pay for water.

The issue of "can pay, but wont pay" is in my view a very small group. Once the general issue of the amounts has been sorted, most of the dissension goes away.

The same thing happens with the LPT. Initially there were also sorts of fears about is costing " 1000s etc"), for many people, its not a huge bill.

Whatever you argue, more taxes had to be raised from more people, and particularly without further raising direct income taxes.

Charging for water is one thing, IW is another.


"I hope opposing this final nail in the coffin might speak of the frustration and desperation of a lot of us in this country."

Funny, rising property, increased car buying, consumer spending, would suggest that there's somewhat" less frustration and desperation" about.

shinzon

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What's a "liable law suit"? Is it serious?

Yeah ok smart arse libel lawsuit

Shin

BoatMad

shinzon wrote: »

yeah I stopped reading at that

Shin

would you perfer, to get all your news from the Mirror, or perhaps the the dail doorman, should respond to such matters.

If all you do is look under rocks, all you'll find is worms.

Breffnigolfer

BoatMad wrote: »

with the greatest respect and I also have two children aboard, what emigrants say is of little consequence. ( They are leaving). The number on the live registers are not down as a result of emigration, they are as a result of net job creation. Why do you look for doom and gloom everywhere.

Equally I had one child return home 3 weeks ago and got a job in 3 days and an apartment place in centre Dublin. !!! Like everything, its not quite as you read about it !.

The main trust of people initial anger was the confusion and potential amounts people would have to pay for water.

The issue of "can pay, but wont pay" is in my view a very small group. Once the general issue of the amounts has been sorted, most of the dissension goes away.

The same thing happens with the LPT. Initially there were also sorts of fears about is costing " 1000s etc"), for many people, its not a huge bill.

Whatever you argue, more taxes had to be raised from more people, and particularly without further raising direct income taxes.

Charging for water is one thing, IW is another.


"I hope opposing this final nail in the coffin might speak of the frustration and desperation of a lot of us in this country."

Funny, rising property, increased car buying, consumer spending, would suggest that there's somewhat" less frustration and desperation" about.

Well said.

Ireland has always had emigration. At the peak of the Celtic Tiger we had something like 25,000 emigrants per year from Ireland.

In the mid 1990's the Rainbow Coalition decided, under threat of revolt from the people in Dublin, to cancel their planned imposition of Water Charges. They decided to divert all annual Motor Tax revenue to the councils for the provision of such services.

Following on from teh FF/Green decision to move to a CO2 based tax system, and the collapse of the economy, the revenue from Motor Tax fell through the floor. It was patently obvious a different, more stable revenue source(s) was/were needed. The solution was Property Tax and Water Charges. The taxes make sense, where the authorities have failed is in the setting up of IW and the failure to be seen to be giving the people anything for their LPT.

It is still unclear how the protesters can justify their opposition to metering. How much water do they want? Unlimited supply?

What is also laughable is the slogan "Right to water". Nowhere is anyone's right to a water supply being hindered in any possible way.

Red Pepper

I have completely changed my mind.
I no longer want Irish Water abolished.
Dukes is right, IW will limp along until "some sort of coherent system is put in place", which may be never.

In the meantime IW shows people on a daily basis what is wrong with Irish politics and the permanent government.
This one utility company was given a simple enough tasks; to manage water assets and bill for water usage.
Somehow they have created a god-awful mess which encapsulates everything that is wrong with Irish politics, the public service and the permanent government
e.g.
Blatant Cronyism, Huge Overstaffing, Rediculous bonus scheme which protecting the underperforming, Endemic waste, Woeful customer service, Scattered operational policy, Exceptionally poor leadership, Poor public relations, Lack of longterm vision etc etc

Let Irish Water survive and continue to inspire us!

BoatMad

Red Pepper wrote: »

I have completely changed my mind.
I no longer want Irish Water abolished.
Dukes is right, IW will limp along until "some sort of coherent system is put in place", which may be never.

In the meantime IW shows people on a daily basis what is wrong with Irish politics and the permanent government.
This one utility company was given a simple enough tasks; to manage water assets and bill for water usage.
Somehow they have created a god-awful mess which encapsulates everything that is wrong with Irish politics, the public service and the permanent government
e.g.
Blatant Cronyism, Huge Overstaffing, Rediculous bonus scheme which protecting the underperforming, Endemic waste, Woeful customer service, Scattered operational policy, Exceptionally poor leadership, Poor public relations, Lack of longterm vision etc etc

Let Irish Water survive and continue to inspire us!

You already posted this at 15:36. I think we got your view- thanks