IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

_Kaiser_

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

By George, I hope not. I hope this country is still a sound enough democracy not to be ruled by the marching masses, and that parliament still governs.

Not that they should be curtailed from their right to protest. And similarly, the government should not be curtailed in their right to ignore the protest and get on with the business of government.

Sooo... "ye can all protest as much as you like as long as we all agree we don't have to listen to you" then?

Who says democracy is dead? :rolleyes:

Edited to add: You do realise the "business of a "democratic" government is to serve the agenda and wishes of the citizens that elected them, not the other way around... right??

SaveOurLyric

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Sooo... "ye can all protest as much as you like as long as we all agree we don't have to listen to you" then?

Who says democracy is dead? :rolleyes:

Exactly. Democracy happens through elections and government by those elected to do so. It isnt elect a government and legislate according to the size of the crowd outside the window.

_Kaiser_

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Exactly. Democracy happens through elections and government by those elected to do so. It isnt elect a government and legislate according to the size of the crowd outside the window.

Oh right.. so if the government completely throws out the mandate it was elected on (as this one has), the voting public should just shut up, cough up, and wait 5 years?

I think you don't quite understand the concept of a democracy that is accountable to its citizens... but to be fair to you, there are many in the current government with the same problem.

falan

Deleted User wrote: »

What increased protests? The one scheduled for Saturday last was a damp squib. Only Clonmel and Limerick had any decent turnout. Dubliners were too busy shopping and dressing in santa gansais.

Loads of protests with decent turnouts on Saturday weren't even mentioned on the news. Thats the game with the media these days....Let on to the masses that the protests are dying out:rolleyes:

Satriale

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Exactly. Democracy happens through elections and government by those elected to do so. It isnt elect a government and legislate according to the size of the crowd outside the window.

The crowd outside the window is the least of the governments problems, its the silent majority they are sweating about.
If a TD gets 50 emails, letters or phone calls in a week from his constituents saying they disapprove of his government, how many of those people will take the trek to Dublin to protest. One, two maybe?

Does that mean the other 48 "reasonable people" are now happy cause they didnt attend?

SaveOurLyric

Satriale wrote: »

The crowd outside the window is the least of the governments problems, its the silent majority they are sweating about.
If a TD gets 50 emails, letters or phone calls in a week from his constituents saying they disapprove of his government, how many of those people will take the trek to Dublin to protest. One, two maybe?

Does that mean the other 48 "reasonable people" are now happy cause they didnt attend?

Probably not.

But it does mean the other 500 people who didnt write emails or letters, or phone the TD, have the sense to realise that they government is doing the right thing, support it, and have no need to waste their TD's time.

_Kaiser_

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Probably not.

But it does mean the other 500 people who didnt write emails or letters, or phone the TD, have the sense to realise that they government is doing the right thing, support it, and have no need to waste their TD's time.

Could be - or just as likely that they are too busy/couldn't be arsed doing it themselves and are happy for "someone else" to do it for them.

Tinkersbell

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Probably not.

But it does mean the other 500 people who didnt write emails or letters, or phone the TD, have the sense to realise that they government is doing the right thing, support it, and have no need to waste their TD's time.

To be fair, most people wouldn't bother emailing a FG/Labour TD because they've seen over the last 3 1/2 years that they don't listen and they have nothing but contempt for the people who elected them.
They will listen to mass non compliance and non payment of the water tax.
Over 1.2 million people have refused to engage in any way and of the alleged 870,000 who have sent packs back, IW refuse to say how many have actually filled in the forms correctly.
IW is a scam too far on the Irish people and it will be dismantled and destroyed one way or the other.
The only outstanding question on it is how much damage it will do to FG/Labour.

shinzon

plans to take water charges from tenants deposits stalls (read postponed, no rollback here folks yessir nothing to look at move along), oh and look at that's its the independent

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/plan-to-take-water-charge-from-tenants-deposit-stalls-30789918.html

and yes im well aware the article says until they meet with landlord representatives, but they'll say no anyways so thats the end of that, as they've already said rent deposits would rise to 1000 euro before you even get into the rented property to cover water bills so unless your rich that's completely unworkable for most people looking to rent

Shin

Tinkersbell

Simon Coveney was on RTE earlier referring to 'the water tax'.
It's obvious that the plan is to make this a tax as I've said all along.
Once it's made a tax it'll be equally obvious that it's been used to fund another bloated state quango stuffed to the gills with FG/Labour cronies.
Bye Bye FG/Labour for another generation.

Highflyer13

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Simon Coveney was on RTE earlier referring to 'the water tax'.
It's obvious that the plan is to make this a tax as I've said all along.
Once it's made a tax it'll be equally obvious that it's been used to fund another bloated state quango stuffed to the gills with FG/Labour cronies.
Bye Bye FG/Labour for another generation.

Thats a spectacular own goal if true which I have no reason to doubt.

Banjo String

shinzon wrote: »

plans to take water charges from tenants deposits stalls (read postponed, no rollback here folks yessir nothing to look at move along), oh and look at that's its the independent

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/plan-to-take-water-charge-from-tenants-deposit-stalls-30789918.html

and yes im well aware the article says until they meet with landlord representatives, but they'll say no anyways so thats the end of that, as they've already said rent deposits would rise to 1000 euro before you even get into the rented property to cover water bills so unless your rich that's completely unworkable for most people looking to rent

Shin

That was a very poorly thought out plan to begin with.

I mean think about it. Would you withhold a sum of money from a tenant knowing fine well they had pretty much unrestricted access to your property?

That was a form of blackmailing a tenant into paying a utility bill that wasnt going to be in their name.

Brain fart extraordinaire.

omega666

http://www.thejournal.ie/how-many-people-have-registered-to-pay-water-charges-1809928-Dec2014/

56% people registered so far. At the current rate of 5,000 a day that should see 70% registered by end of Jan. (prob a bit more as the deadline approaches). Is the protests dying out?


Some will try to claim they are all blank forms but according to the examiner
last week only 17,400 blank forms were returned which would only equate to
2% of the forms sent back.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/17400-duped-into-signing-up-to-irish-water-299272.html

Barely There

omega666 wrote: »

Is the protests dying out?

Certainly the protests have lost vast amounts of support. The penny has finally dropped for most PAYE workers that the protests were orchestrated by serial dole scroungers who wanted to maintain the status quo of having their water paid for by others.
Combine this with the almost universal revulsion at the antics of Murphy and his merry band of scumbag supporters and you can see why most people have quietly disassociated themselves from this particular 'movement'.

I expect the march planned for the 10th will be quietly cancelled, or if it does go ahead, very poorly attended.

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

Certainly the protests have lost vast amounts of support. The penny has finally dropped for most PAYE workers that the protests were orchestrated by serial dole scroungers who wanted to maintain the status quo of having their water paid for by others.
Combine this with the almost universal revulsion at the antics of Murphy and his merry band of scumbag supporters and you can see why most people have quietly disassociated themselves from this particular 'movement'.

I expect the march planned for the 10th will be quietly cancelled, or if it does go ahead, very poorly attended.

Lol you really do live in that fantasy land you've created for yourself don't you, you expect you assume with not one shred of evidence to backup your claims, theres protest marches every weekend, Irish water in stand offs with residents in estates all over the place, meetings arranged by the right2 water campaign and local residents groups planning for the 10th and the only thing you offer to say the movements dying is that great bastion of truth and integrity Irish Water has said 56% have signed up

Get real and stop posting crap will ya

Shin

Breffnigolfer

shinzon wrote: »

Lol you really do live in that fantasy land you've created for yourself don't you, you expect you assume with not one shred of evidence to backup your claims, theres protest marches every weekend, Irish water in stand offs with residents in estates all over the place, meetings arranged by the right2 water campaign and local residents groups planning for the 10th and the only thing you offer to say the movements dying is that great bastion of truth and integrity Irish Water has said 56% have signed up

Get real and stop posting crap will ya

Shin

The poster is right, you've got to face reality. 56% is a majority.

By the way, why are some people opposed to the installation of water meters?

shinzon

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

The poster is right, you've got to face reality. 56% is a majority.

By the way, why are some people opposed to the installation of water meters?

Just because Irish Water said its 56% doesn't make it so, ever hear of propaganda

Shin

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

Lol you really do live in that fantasy land you've created for yourself don't you, you expect you assume with not one shred of evidence to backup your claims,

You'd like "evidence" that a future event will be poorly attended?

Well excuse me while I just pop into my time machine and get that for you.

shinzon wrote: »

theres protest marches every weekend, Irish water in stand offs with residents in estates all over the place,

Shin

Vast, vast majority of estates have seen absolutely no protests or disruption to meter installation.

The only places where disruption and protest have taken place are those with an ingrained welfare culture, terrified of having to contribute to society for a change.

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

You'd like "evidence" that a future event will be poorly attended?

Well excuse me while I just pop into my time machine and get that for you.

Well stop making such idiotic comments about something you know nothing about and I might get off your case, there is such a thing as thinking before speaking which you seem incapable of doing in any meaningful capacity whatsoever

All you do is come in here and spout complete and utter rubbish about dole scroungers etc etc etc and expect everyone to bow to your proclamations when all its designed to do is get up peoples noses and piss people off.

As has been proved time and time again these protests have nothing to do with dole scroungers the grass roots are people who pay there taxes and have nothing left to give for this water tax, but you go on proclaiming your ****e and itll show you for the ignorant person you really are.

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Just because Irish Water said its 56% doesn't make it so, ever hear of propaganda

Shin

But if the Mirror the Indo or some keyboard warrior on Facebook writes it, it must be so. :pac:

Do you like the "Free iPad" ads on Facebook also ?

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

As has been proved time and time again these protests have nothing to do with dole scroungers the grass roots are people who pay there taxes and have nothing left to give for this water tax,

I must have missed that 'proof' - please provide a link to it.

Thanks

I suspect, given the way you carelessly bandy the word about, you have a very fundamental misunderstanding of what the word 'proof' actually means

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

I must have missed that 'proof' - please provide a link to it.

Thanks

I suspect, given the way you carelessly bandy the word about, you have a very fundamental misunderstanding of what the word 'proof' actually means

go look at the official right2water videos and educate yourself im not here to hold your hand

Shin

Breffnigolfer

There are a hell of a lot of satellite dishes attached to houses of so-called protesters. Priorities, eh?

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

But if the Mirror the Indo or some keyboard warrior on Facebook writes it, it must be so. :pac:

Do you like the "Free iPad" ads on Facebook also ?

oh sorry forgive me for being sceptical of a company that's a complete disaster and whose sole function is to charge a tax and would in no way massage the figures to make it look good for themselves

Wonder how many consultants it took them to come up with that figure as they cant seem to wipe there arse without them

Shin

shinzon

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

There are a hell of a lot of satellite dishes attached to houses of so-called protesters. Priorities, eh?

Ah the good old give up sky to pay for your water charge hasn't been trotted out in awhile well done

you wouldn't (what you expect them to do sit around a log fire and tell stories of the good old days when they had telly) so why should they

the level of ****ology in the thread astounds me, no wonder theres a social divide in this country

I have the money to pay and keep my luxuries, but you filth over there I expect you to give up your telly to pay for your charge

:rolleyes:

Shin

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

go look at the official right2water videos and educate yourself im not here to hold your hand

Shin

You think they constitute 'proof' do you?


Guess I was right, you really don't have a clue what the word means.

the groutch

even if 56% had registered, that doesn't mean that 56% of people agree with it.

there will be a lot of people who registered early, and now regret it following the leaking of various info, especially the money wasted in setting it up, and the cronyism in board member appointment.

there will also be those who are doing so reluctantly, who don't want to but don't want to risk losing out on full allowances if it goes ahead.

there will be people from both those categories protesting on December 10th.

denhaagenite

shinzon wrote: »

go look at the official right2water videos and educate yourself im not here to hold your hand

Shin

I'm not saying that they're wrong but at the same time there is an irony in looking to a group that contains an inherent bias for unbiased information. As I've said before I believe that there is right and wrong on both sides but banging your head against a brick wall is really not the best way to knock it down.

I think IW is rotten to the core but people need to pay for water based on usage. What is being paid for in indirect taxation simply does not cover what it costs, and is not fair to those who have to pay for wells and group water schemes already. If you want to protest about something then protest about cronyism, that's really the only issue I see here. Sure there was a thread a few weeks ago about a guy who thought that it was a shame that he now has to do interviews for jobs, whereas before the recession it was just handshakes on GAA pitches. A lot more than the top tier in society are guilty and have benefitted from it, seems it's part of our culture.

EDIT: Actually I do see another problem here, people who will not for love nor money admit that they may have been wrong, or think that it is a weakness to change their minds about something.

shinzon

Barely There wrote: »

You think they constitute 'proof' do you?


Guess I was right, you really don't have a clue what the word means.

Ok tell me oh great and wise sage why is that not proof oh right because it contains the real grass roots of the campaign and no bricks and water balloons and sensationalist bull**** I also suggest you look up Mick Daniels videos as well

Might better educate you to your ignorance in such matters

But nope you wont youll just spout more bull**** whilst you stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and just hope it all goes away, which it wont

In the end I think your just afraid, afraid about what might happen to your money if the likes of Sinn fein get in, and you wont be as well off as before, you might even become one of those scroungers, hell you will be if you go for that 100 euro rebate

Shin

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

Ok tell me oh great and wise sage why is that not proof

Sorry, I'm not going to hand-hold you. This is a journey of discovery you need to make for yourself.

shinzon wrote: »

I also suggest you look up Mick Daniels videos as well

No thanks. I have a life to be living.