IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

gladrags

keithclancy wrote: »

In Financial Terms the country is much worse off.

No

It is much better off,as a rotten quango has been exposed and has saved the country,in the long run.

As long as the threat of mass protests exist and grow,you won't see another quango like IW,cropping up...

Saving millions,in the process.

Irish water is damaged beyond recall,and no one,including the present government,has any confidence that IW is fit for purpose.

It is only a matter of time,before the plug is pulled.

Tinkersbell

Deleted User wrote: »

More people working and paying Income Tax. More people spending and paying VAT.

Well I know that FFS.
Point is, their forecasts are always out.
They might as well consult with mystic meg and save us a few quid at the same time.

keithclancy

gladrags wrote: »

No

It is much better off,as a rotten quango has been exposed and has saved the country,in the long run.

As long as the threat of mass protests exist and grow,you won't see another quango like IW,cropping up...

Saving millions,in the process.

Irish water is damaged beyond recall,and no one,including the present government,has any confidence that IW is fit for purpose.

It is only a matter of time,before the plug is pulled.

If it does then it reaches crisis point, then it starts getting really expensive

Tinkersbell

Alun wrote: »

In other words, good news. 1.1bn might sound a ludicrously large amount of money out of context, but it's only 3.5% of the total tax take.

Or almost 6 times what the water tax will be for the next few years.
All the bad blood, all our money wasted on meters and for what?
To keep Denis happy?

Capt'n Midnight

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Let's be honest, there is a tiny tiny % of people who have been so poor that they haven't been able to afford a dentist appointment in 5 years, arguably non-existent actually.

Perhaps some hard evidence might change your opinion.
Over half of Irish adults only visit dentist in emergency

A survey for the Irish Dental Association, carried out by Behaviour and Attitudes, finds that 46 per cent of Irish people are spending less on dental health than they did three years ago – and 41 per cent of people surveyed rarely, if ever, think of visiting the dentist.

Even more worryingly, 58 per cent of people will not visit the dentist until they have a dental crisis and need emergency treatment. Most Irish adults believe that their teeth and gums are healthy (four out of five people) and yet a recent national oral health survey found that 80 per cent of people have some form of gum disease.

Little CuChulainn

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Perhaps some hard evidence might change your opinion.
Over half of Irish adults only visit dentist in emergency

You are assuming financial difficulty is the cause.

gladrags

keithclancy wrote: »

If it does then it reaches crisis point, then it starts getting really expensive

There are other alternitaves.

If IW were allowed to continue,it is hard to imagine the financial consequences,in particular for future generations.

The financing of the water infrastructure upgrade and maintenace,could come from other viable sources.

The government know this.

Why always the taxpayer?

Anyway,someone who knows what they are doing needs to take the reins,there is a lesson here.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Guilty until proven Innocent .... indeed that's how Ireland works.

Read it again, I think you are becoming confused, Fleming drew up [draft] Legislation, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has drawn up Guidelines to assist ministers.

How could they produce the legislation if they don't have any

Your saying im confused if they didn't have any legislation how'd he find t be loophole, that draft legislation he's drawing up is to plug the loophole he found

Do try and keep up

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Your saying im confused if they didn't have any legislation how'd he find t be loophole, that draft legislation he's drawing up is to plug the loophole he found

Do try and keep up

Shin

Read it again, they didn't write anything into Legislation:

http://www.thejournal.ie/state-board-appointments-1801611-Nov2014/

The party’s Public Expenditure and Reform Spokesperson Seán Fleming said he had found a loophole in the guidelines, but the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform denied this was the case.

The essential difference between [my] legislation and the Government’s proposal is that Fianna Fáil believes the matter must be dealt with on a statutory basis, not by way of guidelines that have been drawn up to assist Ministers,” Fleming said.

Roger Hassenforder

^^

Ah lads, you're clogging this up with your tete a tete.
Can you move to PM?

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are assuming financial difficulty is the cause.

Obviously financial difficulty is the main cause! It certainly is with me..... it costs way more to visit the dentist than the doctor.... and you wont die from a sore tooth but the implications of an infected ear/eye.... relentless headache, unexplained lump, bleeding are far higher so we prioritise the doctor over the dentist.

what are you trying to say? That people dont visit the dentist cos they hate needles? Get a grip:mad:. I earn 208 a week - try going to the dentist for a checkup on that.
You are seriously out of touch with reality .........

SaveOurLyric

gladrags wrote: »

Why always the taxpayer?

There is no one else ! Of course everything comes from the taxpayer.

keithclancy

gladrags wrote: »

There are other alternitaves.

If IW were allowed to continue,it is hard to imagine the financial consequences,in particular for future generations.

Irish Water is not a person so it doesn't have the ability to be evil or good, they just need to put a method of getting out results, the price of the water was meant to be fixed and controlled by the regulator.

At the end of the day you want
Clean drinkable water at a good price with good water pressure
Fair Cost

That can be done through
Benchmarking
Transparency
Regulated prices

The financing of the water infrastructure upgrade and maintenace,could come from other viable sources.

Why always the taxpayer?

Anyway,someone who knows what they are doing needs to take the reins,there is a lesson here.

Other Viable sources?
I don't really get where else a Government is supposed to get its money, it runs on Tax or Loans.

The only other way is to charge the Customer Directly rather than charge all customers and non-customers regardless of how much water they use.

IMO that would be the fairest.

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously financial difficulty is the main cause! It certainly is with me..... it costs way more to visit the dentist than the doctor.... and you wont die from a sore tooth but the implications of an infected ear/eye.... relentless headache, unexplained lump, bleeding are far higher so we prioritise the doctor over the dentist.

what are you trying to say? That people dont visit the dentist cos they hate needles? Get a grip:mad:. I earn 208 a week - try going to the dentist for a checkup on that.
You are seriously out of touch with reality .........

No, I think it's just an Irish thing, there is very little thought put into preventative maintenance and people will generally only go when they experience pain or see a visible problem with their teeth.

I.E. the thinking is if they go for a checkup then the dentist might tell them there is something wrong and it could cost them money

Whereas they just leave it and end up with a few cavaties they might have prevented by a few sessions with a hygienist.

http://www.thejournal.ie/only-one-in-five-entitled-people-availed-of-free-dental-exams-last-year-515491-Jul2012/

Phoebas

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are assuming financial difficulty is the cause.

Also that a 'survey for the Irish Dental Association' couldn't possibly be biased.
Maybe the dentists should lower their prices to get people in through their doors. You'd hardly get a check up, clean and a filling for the price of a years water.

suicide_circus

The people who were paid €80m in consultancy fees for their expertise in helping set up Irish Water should be blacklisted by the PAC to ensure they are never on the receiving end of public money ever again.
Their expert input is clearly something we can do without.

Streetwalker

BoatMad wrote: »

you will be getting a water metered bill from 1st quarter next year, Personally Im keen to see if I can beat my flat charge, not hopeful though

Its never not useful to know , how much of a resource you are consuming.

What water bill? Some company posted a form through my door a few months back think they where called Irish Water but it went straight in the bin. They can't send me a bill if I haven't had correspondence with them.

I already pay for water so I think it must have been someone trying to scam me.

Alun

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Or almost 6 times what the water tax will be for the next few years.
All the bad blood, all our money wasted on meters and for what?
To keep Denis happy?

Yeah, it's not as if there's no other stuff to spend the 1.1bn on is it :pac:

Alun

Streetwalker wrote: »

What water bill? Some company posted a form through my door a few months back think they where called Irish Water but it went straight in the bin. They can't send me a bill if I haven't had correspondence with them.

Yes they can.

I already pay for water so I think it must have been someone trying to scam me.

No you don't. The tax you paid that previously went to pay for water is now used for other stuff. Simples.

clappyhappy

I had meant to register on Sunday but I completely forgot. All along I was just waiting to see what was happening and the closing date was extended.

So what's the story now, can I still register, are there penalties for doing so late?

Or what happens if I don't register? Genuine question, not trolling or anything.

Tinkersbell

Alun wrote: »

Yeah, it's not as if there's no other stuff to spend the 1.1bn on is it :pac:

Keep raiding the taxpayer and this is the result.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nurses-gardaiacute-teachers-seeking-svp-aid-300627.html

Tinkersbell

clappyhappy wrote: »

I had meant to register on Sunday but I completely forgot. All along I was just waiting to see what was happening and the closing date was extended.

So what's the story now, can I still register, are there penalties for doing so late?

Or what happens if I don't register? Genuine question, not trolling or anything.

Don't think it matters now.
You don't need to apply for allowances as they are charging a flat rate for every household.
Either way, the 'deadline' has been pushed out, for the third time, until sometime next year.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

No, I think it's just an Irish thing, there is very little thought put into preventative maintenance and people will generally only go when they experience pain or see a visible problem with their teeth.

I.E. the thinking is if they go for a checkup then the dentist might tell them there is something wrong and it could cost them money

Whereas they just leave it and end up with a few cavaties they might have prevented by a few sessions with a hygienist.

http://www.thejournal.ie/only-one-in-five-entitled-people-availed-of-free-dental-exams-last-year-515491-Jul2012/

mmmm ? maybe .......but do you not think that all kinda changed over the last few years with teeth whitening, braces etc. Irish people used to have awful teeth, yellow and gaps all over the place but you rarely see that nowadays

clappyhappy

clappyhappy wrote: »

I had meant to register on Sunday but I completely forgot. All along I was just waiting to see what was happening and the closing date was extended.

So what's the story now, can I still register, are there penalties for doing so late?

Or what happens if I don't register? Genuine question, not trolling or anything.

ehhhh? penalties for registering late?? Ha - that's a great start! I dont think so! They will be down on their knees thanking people for registering - not penalising them for not signing up in time! Penalties only occur when people don't pay something.

and for the record Irish Water are meant to be the ones to contact you with a package to sign up for - not the other way around. Lots of people still have not received their package.

Incompetence.

AboutaWeekAgo

"LOCAL AUTHORITIES HAVE given €424.5 million to Irish Water to date. A further €14.5 million is expected to be paid to the utility this month."

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-local-authorities-1810894-Dec2014/

So that's nearly half a billion, wonder how many pipes and leaks they could have fixed with that this year?

omega666

clappyhappy wrote: »

I had meant to register on Sunday but I completely forgot. All along I was just waiting to see what was happening and the closing date was extended.

So what's the story now, can I still register, are there penalties for doing so late?

Or what happens if I don't register? Genuine question, not trolling or anything.

You can register up until the deadline of 2nd Feb 2015.

According to IW

People who don’t register will receive an automatic €260 bill and will not qualify for the €100 rebate.
Late payment penalties of €30 for a single adult household and €60 for other households will be added to bills three months following a year of non-payment. Over four years of non-payment, penalties could accumulate to €1,640.
If you refuse to pay, the charges will be attached to your home meaning water bills would remain outstanding if you tried to sell your home.

Grandpa Hassan

omega666 wrote: »

You can register up until the deadline of 2nd Feb 2015.

According to IW

People who don’t register will receive an automatic €260 bill and will not qualify for the €100 rebate.
Late payment penalties of €30 for a single adult household and €60 for other households will be added to bills three months following a year of non-payment. Over four years of non-payment, penalties could accumulate to €1,640.
If you refuse to pay, the charges will be attached to your home meaning water bills would remain outstanding if you tried to sell your home.

That last bit is not right, surely.

If it is, payment of water charges will be a clause in every tenancy agreement, and LLs will be quick to evict and retain deposits if proof of water charge payment is not provided

Daith

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

That last bit is not right, surely.

If it is, payment of water charges will be a clause in every tenancy agreement, and LLs will be quick to evict and retain deposits if proof of water charge payment is not provided

Yes that's exactly it. It was even specified that landlords could take money from a deposit if it wasn't paid.

Grandpa Hassan

Daith wrote: »

Yes that's exactly it. It was even specified that landlords could take money from a deposit if it wasn't paid.

If that is the case then I think we could find that the compliance rate shoots up pretty sharpish!

I don't want to rely on keeping a deposit. I would look to make water payment a condition of a tenancy agreement, and look for the tenant to provide proof.

Actually, thinking about it, if this is true it would be better just to keep the water bill in the LLs name, and increase the rent by that amount now that it is a fixed charge

Government getting LLs to enforce this

shinzon

the landlords association have already said that what the government is proposing is unworkable and they don't want to work as debt collectors for Irish Water

Also deposits would shoot upto 1000 euro before ye even step inside the property to cover water costs

Apparently talks are planned but id expect there stance not to change so itll be another dead issue

Shin