IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

Ha Ha.

Spare me your crocodile tears lad.

If you can't see the wood for the trees, you can't be helped.

Your opinion on IW is a mere fantasy and you ought to be ashamed for supporting it in the light of all that's come out about that wretched company.

I never said I supported Irish Water, its a company with problems
The principal is sound, the implementation has issues.

That has been my opinion through the whole course of this thread.

You should not be angry at a company, it is not an person.

Breffnigolfer

Tony EH wrote: »

.......... I'm not putting a single cent into the pockets of useless, incompetent, millionaires like John Tierney and Denis O'Brien. ..............

O'Brien is far from incompetant.
Do you drink Guinness products?
Do you use SAMSUNG, APPLE or products from other such companies?
What phone network do you use?
What car do you drive?
Do you buy fuel from TOPAZ?
Who do you work for?
Do you fly Ryanair/Aer Lingus?
Who are your employer's customers/suppliers?

If your ethics are as strong as you stipulate you will have a hard choice purchasing anything.

66ad

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see!

Did you seriously want a guy to give up his dog, so he could pay towards this corrupt quango?

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

I never said I supported Irish Water,

And yet, nearly every post from is supporting Irish Water, at the very least in some fantasy form that you merely hope will happen.

Tony EH

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

O'Brien is far from incompetant.
Do you drink Guinness products?
Do you use SAMSUNG, APPLE or products from other such companies?
What phone network do you use?
What car do you drive?
Do you buy fuel from TOPAZ?
Who do you work for?
Do you fly Ryanair/Aer Lingus?
Who are your employer's customers/suppliers?

If your ethics are as strong as you stipulate you will have a hard choice purchasing anything.

Buying up everything with your millions is not a gauge for competency.

Banjo String

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

No. Water supply should not be provided by the State free of charge.

It hasn't been, who has been paying the 1.2 billion per annum so far?

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

My taxes, and everyone's taxes should not be used for the provision of water. It is a valuable commodity and should be treated as such. Giving it away, unmetered, free of charge, is not viable and not sustainable.

But giving the infrastucture and the resource away for free to a "private company" which will inevitably be privatised should?

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

The solution is to meter it and charge for its consumption. It is manifestly unfair that one section of the population is benefiting from such generosity.

The meters will be dormant until 2019

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

It is also abundantly clear that opponents of the water charges do not appreciate what they currently have. It is a certainty that people who get something for nothing (which IS the current situation) do not appreciate it. Paying for a commodity will soon make these people realise its value.

See my first reply.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see!

Touché.

Breffnigolfer

66ad wrote: »

Did you seriously want a guy to give up his dog, so he could pay towards this corrupt quango?

What a ridiculous and deliberate misinterpretation of what I posted.

No water bill has to be paid until next April. If the man is under such financial hardship now he cannot afford to have a dog. It's clear. His choice to have a pet makes his argument hollow, as it would if any other extravagance would be.

He cannot afford to have a pet. He has a moral duty to pay for his water supply.

If it's just him on his own, then his water bill will actually be €60, just over €1 per week. It's a pittance and a small contribution for what he uses. (Far too small, IMO)

AboutaWeekAgo

66ad wrote: »

Did you seriously want a guy to give up his dog, so he could pay towards this corrupt quango?

He was right. I took my dog down a back road this afternoon and let him run free. I'm going to be a good citizen now. Wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed. Rinse and repeat. No more of those silly luxuries like a dog for me. I'm going work and keep my head down so I can keep paying all these new taxes with a smile on face. What else are the proles for?

Breffnigolfer

Banjo String wrote: »

yada yada yada yada.

You haven't put up one coherent argument yet. (Plenty of red herrings though)

You are not paying enough for your water supply.

You need to pay your fair share.

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

And yet, nearly every post from is supporting Irish Water, at the very least in some fantasy form that you merely hope will happen.

Oh no Sir.. I think you have me confused with somebody else:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93210208&postcount=3712

keithclancy wrote: »

For me the only problem is that Irish Water was setup in a very poor manner.

The rest of the arguments now are just stupid.

No way we won't pay (who do you expect to pay for it?)
No I don't want to pay for usage (Why should I pay for your teenagers morning hand party or leaks you are not willing to fix?)
Water is free it falls from the sky (Water is free when it falls from the sky, so is Lightning and Sunshine)
Water is a human right (Access to potable water is a human right)
They should just fix the infrastructure first (Are they going to go out with blotting paper and put it on the floor to find the wet bits?)

For me it looks like:

The whole service was a shambles in the first place, down to local authorities to administer. The water quality is terrible, I don't know a place in the country that doesn't suffer from some sort of problem e.g. water pressure, hard water, brown water, leaks and so on.

People are mixing up water as a thing and water as a service, banging on about human rights.

People in a lot of countries in Europe don't drink water from the Tap in their house, I haven't heard the UN doing anything about it yet.

IMO caving to the pay on usage was a mistake, the cost is just hidden as it will have to be topped up and paid for by the PAYE worker, the Motorist and anyone else that pays into the General Tax pot.

The argument of already paying doesn't make any sense either, you could say that about any cost which used to be paid directly in general taxation and was converted into a direct charge. The saving is in the money you don't have to borrow on the markets.

The argument of people on social welfare not being able to pay is a topic that should be addressed by the social welfare system.

Also the Psychology of water usage in Ireland is obvious, when people say they take a Shower over a Bath its not because of the water usage, it's because they'd have to turn on the immersion.

gladrags

Quote:Grandpa Hassan

"And replace them with what? They are the only crowd that are going to get the country out of this mess.Good progress has been made. "

FG have clearly stated that they govern for the "squuezed middle", or the " coping classes",who are the "reasonable people".

They are divisive,and encourage division.
There policies are not representative of the majority.

It is clear that Labour have become an inconvienient partner,and now that an election is in the air,FG are on a solo run.

The bottom line is that they are incapable of governing.They answer to themselves,
or to the EU,not to the electorate.

"A collapse of the government will set all that back. The shinners get in, with a bunch of independents (not that that will happen) I'm selling up everything I have and getting the hell out of dodge."

The above is a typical Dame Edna response.

No alternitaves from you then.

Its called democracy.

Banjo String

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You haven't put up one coherent argument yet. (Plenty of red herrings though)

You are not paying enough for your water supply.

You need to pay your fair share.

Like your generalisations, your rebuttal is lazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6p1Ck0ab80

66ad

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What a ridiculous and deliberate misinterpretation of what I posted.

No water bill has to be paid until next April. If the man is under such financial hardship now he cannot afford to have a dog. It's clear. His choice to have a pet makes his argument hollow, as it would if any other extravagance would be.

He cannot afford to have a pet. He has a moral duty to pay for his water supply.

If it's just him on his own, then his water bill will actually be €60, just over €1 per week. It's a pittance and a small contribution for what he uses. (Far too small, IMO)

WOW! is all I can say. You keep up that moral duty of yours, well done you!

keithclancy

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

He was right. I took my dog down a back road this afternoon and let him run free. I'm going to be a good citizen now. Wake up, go to work, come home, go to bed. Rinse and repeat. No more of those silly luxuries like a dog for me. I'm going work and keep my head down so I can keep paying all these new taxes with a smile on face. What else are the proles for?

You let him go ! You Lunatic !!

I just slathered some sauce on mine and stuck it on the bbq :pac:

Sobko

keithclancy wrote: »

I never said I supported Irish Water, its a company with problems
The principal is sound, the implementation has issues.

That has been my opinion through the whole course of this thread.

You should not be angry at a company, it is not an person.

So people were right to protest. And yet the government were satisfied to continue along its dysfunctional path. And supporters of the government, because they have supported FG all there lives continue to support bad decisions.

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

Oh no Sir.. I think you have me confused with somebody else:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93210208&postcount=3712

For me the only problem is that Irish Water was setup in a very poor manner.

That's simply saying that you think it's been "set up in a very poor manner", however, you've also said "...its what I would hope the Irish system would eventually evolve into", among other things.

That's support for Irish Water. Blind support, especially after everything that has been placed on the table.

I don't have you "confused" in any way, shape or form.

Irish Water needs to die.

Tinkersbell

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You haven't put up one coherent argument yet. (Plenty of red herrings though)

You are not paying enough for your water supply.

You need to pay your fair share.

He is, and so am I.
Maybe we're paying your share too?

Badger2009

Banjo String wrote: »

It hasn't been, who has been paying the 1.2 billion per annum so far?

I understand this argument. Personally I would rather see the money going to other services - particularly healthcare. I think water services should be funded on the user pays basis so that areas such as healthcare etc. are not fighting with water services for allocations of money. With the government backtracking this looks like it will not happen for some time.

Banjo String wrote: »

But giving the infrastucture and the resource away for free to a "private company" which will inevitably be privatised should?

I wouldn't agree that it is inevitable that it will be privatised. It may be, and I'm not so sure that would be a bad idea, and I understand peoples concerns with it but it is not inevitable. If it was privatised it certainly would not be given away for free.

Banjo String wrote: »

The meters will be dormant until 2019

This is definitely not true. The meters will still be used and some users may be able to reduce their bills by being lower than the fixed charges. Unlikely though given the government back tracking, but possible. One other important function of the meters that has been lost, I think, is their use in leak detection. We had a leak in the garden that we knew nothing about. The meter showed it was using nearly 10,000 litres per day. IW came and fixed it a couple weeks ago so I think that is something very positive.

Tinkersbell

keithclancy wrote: »

You let him go ! You Lunatic !!

I just slathered some sauce on mine and stuck it on the bbq :pac:

Hotdog?

end of the road

keithclancy wrote: »

I am looking at it clearly, your posts seem to be emotional and based on future events that may or may not happen, but in your head WILL happen.

Allowing emotions to influence your thoughts is closer to a nightmare than objectively looking at a system, comparing it to a working one and accepting there are problems that need to be addressed is to dreaming.

the system you champion works because the government implamenting it actually want it to work as a water provision system, pay for water to fix and look after the infrastructure. here however, its about giving a few cronies a job and a contract.

gladrags

Tony EH wrote: »

Buying up everything with your millions is not a gauge for competency.

Or integrity,or honesty.

Look at Bernie Madoff

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

I am looking at it clearly, your posts seem to be emotional and based on future events that may or may not happen, but in your head WILL happen.

Allowing emotions to influence your thoughts is closer to a nightmare than objectively looking at a system, comparing it to a working one and accepting there are problems that need to be addressed is to dreaming.

in what way are the posters comments emotional????
Where?? I thought his posts were very factul actually:cool:

shinzon

donvito99 wrote: »

Ye, I'm done. I'm just glad now that you can't have your way.

Ok what you on about now

Shin

Breffnigolfer

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What a ridiculous and deliberate misinterpretation of what I posted.

No water bill has to be paid until next April. If the man is under such financial hardship now he cannot afford to have a dog. It's clear. His choice to have a pet makes his argument hollow, as it would if any other extravagance would be.

He cannot afford to have a pet. He has a moral duty to pay for his water supply.

If it's just him on his own, then his water bill will actually be €60, just over €1 per week. It's a pittance and a small contribution for what he uses. (Far too small, IMO)

I'd say you're great craic to live with. You have zero empathy. Put yourself in someone elses shoes.

end of the road

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

No. Water supply should not be provided by the State free of charge. My taxes, and everyone's taxes should not be used for the provision of water. It is a valuable commodity and should be treated as such. Giving it away, unmetered, free of charge, is not viable and not sustainable.

its not a valuable commodity. its a right and an entitlement. you don't get it, you can't live.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

The solution is to meter it and charge for its consumption. It is manifestly unfair that one section of the population is benefiting from such generosity.

it is

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

It is also abundantly clear that opponents of the water charges do not appreciate what they currently have. It is a certainty that people who get something for nothing (which IS the current situation) do not appreciate it. Paying for a commodity will soon make these people realise its value.

i do appreciate what i have. however paying for something isn't going to make me appreciate something i both appreciate all ready, and pay for via my taxes

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see!

yeah. i know

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

[/B]That's simply saying that you think it's been "set up in a very poor manner", however, you've also said "...its what I would hope the Irish system would eventually evolve into", among other things.

That's support for Irish Water. Blind support, especially after everything that has been placed on the table.

I don't have you "confused" in any way, shape or form.

Irish Water needs to die.

If you are comparing it that way the Semi Public Company Structure in the Netherlands for the Water Companies is nothing like Ireland (because the Netherlands has 16.8 million people and having one large company working with that many customers and a lot of local municipalities wouldn't work)

The system is on how it provides water and sanitation to the public is the pretty much the same as what they are trying to implement in Ireland.

No, that's not support for Irish Water ... and to be clear I do not support Irish Water, I don't support companies because they are not people and do not have feelings one way or the other, they just provide a service or a product.

I support the model here (that works) for how the service is provided.

Tony EH wrote: »

Why am I even talking to you anyway. You're not even living here half the feckin year.

:rolleyes:

I take offence to your thinly veiled "Why don't you f*ck off back to where you came from" comment

Truely never thought I would get that from another Irish Person, pretty surprised to be honest.

end of the road

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

If the man is under such financial hardship now he cannot afford to have a dog.

he had it before times got tough. what should he do. throw it out like the rubbish, or to some home, or have it destroyed. should those who have children but who struggle have the children "put down"

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

It's clear. His choice to have a pet makes his argument hollow, as it would if any other extravagance would be.

a dog is not an extravagance. for some, a dog is the only thing they have as a companion. a companion who is more important then the pentians of failed wasters with ridiculous track records.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

He cannot afford to have a pet.

nor can some afford to have children. again should those people have the children killed?

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

He has a moral duty to pay for his water supply.

actually he doesn't.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

If it's just him on his own, then his water bill will actually be €60, just over €1 per week.

i'm sure it would be. maybe one hasn't got it though.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

It's a pittance and a small contribution for what he uses.

its not a pittance if you haven't it.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

(Far too small, IMO)

of course. you want more money for you're friends managing irish water, and you're friend dennis.

end of the road

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You haven't put up one coherent argument yet. (Plenty of red herrings though)

your referring to yourself there.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You are not paying enough for your water supply.

we are.

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

You need to pay your fair share.

we are. repeating yourself doesn't make what you say true.

end of the road

Badger2009 wrote: »

I understand this argument. Personally I would rather see the money going to other services - particularly healthcare. I think water services should be funded on the user pays basis so that areas such as healthcare etc. are not fighting with water services for allocations of money. With the government backtracking this looks like it will not happen for some time.



I wouldn't agree that it is inevitable that it will be privatised. It may be, and I'm not so sure that would be a bad idea, and I understand peoples concerns with it but it is not inevitable. If it was privatised it certainly would not be given away for free.





This is definitely not true. The meters will still be used and some users may be able to reduce their bills by being lower than the fixed charges. Unlikely though given the government back tracking, but possible. One other important function of the meters that has been lost, I think, is their use in leak detection. We had a leak in the garden that we knew nothing about. The meter showed it was using nearly 10,000 litres per day. IW came and fixed it a couple weeks ago so I think that is something very positive.

privatizing it would absolutely be a bad idea. having paracitic private companies screwing us for what they can get and taking the proffits home, no thanks.

hju6

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

And replace them with what? They are the only crowd that are going to get the country out of this mess. Good progress has been made. A collapse of the government will set all that back. The shinners get in, with a bunch of independents (not that that will happen) I'm selling up everything I have and getting the hell out of dodge.

Let's have a look at this " replace them with what ? " crap.

The current bunch of elected incompetants are performing poorly in the polls,

Since the Troika and the IMF left, it's been one extremely poor decision after another, with U turns, back downs, and then delusions of a "reasonable" electorate being happy with the U turns and back downs.

An election will happen and the sooner the better, and the citizens of this country will "replace them with what " they democratically vote for.

Then Gramps you may get on an ageing Aer Lingus jet ( subsidised many times by the tax payer, but not used by all) , and fly of to your Utopia where you pay for everything and less fortunates suffer and die,

Edit: maybe an Emirates flight would be the the best bet for your Utopian dream