IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

In Lonesome Dove

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

To those who oppose water charges:

Given that Ireland is running at a deficit at the moment, Imagine you do get the water charges abolished, how do you propose to close the deficit?

Water charge isn't the only way to do it so how do you propose to do it?

There are approximately 1756000 households in Ireland. A system similar to the TV licence system as an example with 200 euro a year as an example would bring in 351200000 a year.

Geuze

Banjo String wrote: »

Another valid question that could be asked, is why are GMC Sierra still attempting to install meters where the residents clearly do not want them,

If, "thousands are being installed elsewhere every day, with little or no protest, so why not concentrate on areas where they're welcomed, and facilitated?

And installing meters should be waaaay down the list of priorities now, if the bills are seemingly going to be capped for 3 years, therefore making the meters redundant until then?

GMC Sierra have a part to play in these protests too.

Even with no direct charges, meters help find leaks.

gandalf

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

However, IW was never going to scratch the surface of a €7bn overall deficit.

Nope seriously dealing with the cost of delivering services from Government would but that would involve firing PS's and I don't see any of our political parties with the balls to push that through. As usual they will try and squeeze more tax out of the usual suspects.

Yggr of Asgard

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

There are approximately 1756000 households in Ireland. A system similar to the TV licence system as an example with 200 euro a year as an example would bring in 351200000 a year.

Yes and the bribe that the goverment is offering it's citizens is going to require at least 175,600,000 € on additional tax revenue to come from somewhere. Plus the administrative cost to pay the bribe.

That is madness!

BoJack Horseman

Geuze wrote: »

Even with no direct charges, meters help find leaks.

True.

However as conservation & resource management are now no longer relevant, I think postponing meter installation would be prudent.

GMC can keep the contract and recommence should conservation ever be a priority.

Also, the full metering programme costs upwards of €500m
Without the relevance of conservation, that's an expensive leak detection programme.

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

I would consider being falsely imprisoned for a couple of hours, in a car , being rocked & shaken, while a huge amount of people were outside screaming at me, to be terrorising.

She didn't.

She's smirking into the camera here.

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/l/t1.0-9/10478534_354511718054972_1599145588846399155_n.jpg?oh=b755a83c64f24f2adb2e58203370b182&oe=54D2CF65

ebbsy

I might go on the dole. €74 a year for water ????

I will have a slice of dat.

Yggr of Asgard

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

True.

However as conservation & resource management are now no longer relevant, I think postponing meter installation would be prudent.

GMC can keep the contract and recommence should conservation ever be a priority.

Yes, congratulations to the anti-water protesters, conversation & resource management are now no longer relevant, exactly what this country needs, another short term victory losing sight for the future.

Phoebas

Tony EH wrote: »

She didn't.

She's smirking into the camera here.

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/l/t1.0-9/10478534_354511718054972_1599145588846399155_n.jpg?oh=b755a83c64f24f2adb2e58203370b182&oe=54D2CF65

That looks like smirking to you!

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

I for one am sick of how this and every other protest seems to be anti garda.
I thought protestors were anti water charges?

If these were genuine peaceful protests, people would appreciate the fact that gardai are doing their job. They have to do as they are detailed.
Gardai have been hit hard over the last, few years, do people really think they want to defend the people who are going to charge them more money?

They do their job no matter who is in government. There's not too many want to pay more bills.

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

I went to my local protest a few weeks ago. I am not anti garda. Stop lumping us all into the one bracket.

On the marches I was at in Dublin, the protestors were talking to the Gardai, laughing and joking. A few of them even recognised their mates and were having a good old time.

The hysterical (faux) "reaction" to the situation in Jobstown is a farce. A few people got out of hand and lost the cool to anger and a gob****e throws a brick an hour or more after the protest and some people go to pieces, although how genuine their concern is for Joan Burton is questionable. To say the very least.

Ridiculous.

Tony EH

Phoebas wrote: »

That looks like smirking to you!

Obviously not to you...because you're sooooooo worried about Joan.

:pac:

Banjo String

Geuze wrote: »

Even with no direct charges, meters help find leaks.

But surely they should be attempting to install in these particular areas as a last resort.

GMC Sierra and the Govt, state repeatedly that thousands of meters are being installed without any incidents around the country.

Why try to keep going into areas where there will be incidents.

It doesn't make very much sense imo.

Tony EH

My name is URL wrote: »

This bull**** again

Tell me, when is the last time that Secret Service or police opened fire at or shot someone trying to get close to a president.

Did they shoot the armed guy that managed to get into an elevator with Obama? Or the one that scaled a fence and ran into the Whitehouse?

Did they shoot the man that flung his shoes (which could have just as easily been grenades) at GW Bush?

No they didn't.

The guy that attacked Cameron a few weeks back wasn't even roughed up like the woman outside Mansion House.

Stop talking bollix.

Some people are watching '24' too much.

BoJack Horseman

dublin-texas wrote: »

Yes, congratulations to the anti-water protesters, conversation & resource management are now no longer relevant, exactly what this country needs, another short term victory losing sight for the future.

Your absolutely right.

However, being cowards, politicians will take the easiest course.

More than likely the installation programme will continue..... There hasn't been any word regarding suspension.

Tony EH

bjork wrote: »

Perhaps, this is true. If only he was armed, he could have shot the protestor from the bonnet.


independent.ie/irish-news/politics/beefed-up-security-for-ministers-as-family-water-bills-now-down-to-160-30752835.html


A number of ministers may be assigned armed garda drivers as an "interim" measure as part of the overall review, security sources have revealed.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I wouldn't have an issue with that

Wow.

You're a joke.

Larbre34

Geuze wrote: »

Even with no direct charges, meters help find leaks.

Only a tiny percentage, i.e. those under properties on the customer side of the meter.

When you hear that figure quoted of 42% of treated water lost through leaks, most of those leaks are in the mains pipes under the roads and coming from the treatment plants where the water leeches away into the ground, not under private premises.

Also, only 16% of treated water is consumed by domestic homes. The majority is used by industry and commercial customers.

So, for conservation and network improvement, domestic meters are a massive great red herring.

listermint

dublin-texas wrote: »

Yes, congratulations to the anti-water protesters, conversation & resource management are now no longer relevant, exactly what this country needs, another short term victory losing sight for the future.

They never were, You know this because the government said explicitly if the usage drops the price increases this is recorded as fact.

So explain to be in full listed detail how it was a conservation and resource management issue from the outset. I will answer for you (it wasnt)

It is blatantly not true. The facts are there.

so your attempt to vilify the protestors against the guardian that is irish water is fairly transparent and utterly nonsensical.

but sure whatever your having yourself.

Yggr of Asgard

Tony EH wrote: »

On the marches I was at in Dublin, the protestors were talking to the Gardai, laughing and joking. A few of them even recognised their mates and were having a good old time.

The hysterical (faux) "reaction" to the situation in Jobstown is a farce. A few people got out of hand and lost the cool to anger and a gob****e throws a brick an hour or more after the protest and some people go to pieces, although how genuine their concern is for Joan Burton is questionable. To say the very least.

Ridiculous.

To be fair to the anti-water protesters, once can’t mix the vast amount of peaceful protesters that marched recently with the “rent a crowd” people that are hijacking the message and do stupid stunts like trapping a senior cabinet minister in her car or individuals that “in a kneejerk reaction” trying to hammer onto another’s one car.

I don’t agree with them nor do I agree with the Governments approach to make people pay for what they use; I am for the principle of water charges, just the execution of it is madness.

hedtcha

The ire and grievances that currently exist within most strata of Irish society have been generated by the current government, and past governments.
It’s a cumulative effective dating back as far as the foundation of the state. Cute hoor power aggrandizing, wealth accruing thieves such as Haughey and Ahearn, Ansbacher accounts, Garda corruption,
abdicating the responsibility for child care and education to the church, mass scale sexual abuse, Magdelane laundries, Industrial Schools, Stardust Inquiry, TD’s expenses and breath-taking arrogance, Hep-b scandals, quangos, A.I.B, golden circles, a rubber stamping energy regulator, excessive bonuses, politicians encouraging people to purchase over-priced property during the boom due to vested interests, cronyism, bonus schemes, USC, removal of funding to essential services for the most vulnerable in our society, a compliant media machine, Denis O’Brien, 160 euro a year to prop up RTE and their Steller TV personality’s giant salaries, LPT, Ivor the Engine, land rezoning, kickbacks, bugging of journalists – and now the setting up of a new quango that WILL eventually be privatised and your NEW utility bill will increase year on year. Have I left anything out? My parents accepted this as the norm back in the day, ‘That’s just the way it is’ – I don’t, I want a progressive and fair state, professionally run, where public servants are proud to serve the people. Instead we get Italy, with sh*t food.

Little CuChulainn

Larbre34 wrote: »

Only a tiny percentage, i.e. those under properties on the customer side of the meter.

If you look at the amount pumped out and the amount received at each meter then you can tell if there is a major leak in that network.

listermint

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you look at the amount pumped out and the amount received at each meter then you can tell if there is a major leak in that network.

That only gives you the amount used at the house. Are the metering the top of each street or central root to get the amount pushed to the street or area?

Or are you speculating with very little knowledge of Water Engineering ?

Do you know what the are doing presently on the street to obtain these values that you are suggesting they will be able to do with this program?

Or are they merely metering each household. If thats the case then it wont tell you how much is wasted. Bearing in mind the leaks are not generally domestic.

Larbre34

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you look at the amount pumped out and the amount received at each meter then you can tell if there is a major leak in that network.

No, there is not enough interim measurement of flow through the network to be able to localise and identify even major leaks.

Telemetry systems only exist on a very small element of the network.

Tony EH

dublin-texas wrote: »

To be fair to the anti-water protesters, once can’t mix the vast amount of peaceful protesters that marched recently with the “rent a crowd” people that are hijacking the message and do stupid stunts like trapping a senior cabinet minister in her car or individuals that “in a kneejerk reaction” trying to hammer onto another’s one car.

I don’t agree with them nor do I agree with the Governments approach to make people pay for what they use; I am for the principle of water charges, just the execution of it is madness.

There were about 100 people or so at the Jobstown protest. A protest organised by people in Jobstown itself in a fairly impromptu manner. In other words badly organised. A fraction of that crowd let their temper get the better of them and unfortunately, that is all that it takes for a situation to get out of hand.

EVEN SO, at the end of the day, it was really a relatively minor incident in the grand scheme of things and the major incident of the fool and his brick occurred after the protest had ended.

The way some people are going on you'd think there was rioting in the streets like we saw in London a few years ago.

It's a ridiculous and over the top (and frankly fake) reaction from some people with dubious motives.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the execution of Irish Water has been a joke from beginning to end and that's why it must be dismantled completely. There are far, far too many people both vocal and silent that have absolutely no faith in it as an entity for whom the public interest is at heart.

gladrags

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

To those who oppose water charges:

Given that Ireland is running at a deficit at the moment, Imagine you do get the water charges abolished, how do you propose to close the deficit?

Water charge isn't the only way to do it so how do you propose to do it?

By using valid alternitaves.

This should have been the approach before the debacle that is Irish Water,became the lame duck quango that it is.

There was an option to levy the banks,as they have a debt to repay to this country.

Other EU countries formed a group this year to do exactly that.

I see that a levy on banks has now been mooted,to fund investment in water infrastructure.

Yggr of Asgard

listermint wrote: »

They never were, You know this because the government said explicitly if the usage drops the price increases this is recorded as fact.

So explain to be in full listed detail how it was a conservation and resource management issue from the outset. I will answer for you (it wasnt)

It is blatantly not true. The facts are there.

so your attempt to vilify the protestors against the guardian that is irish water is fairly transparent and utterly nonsensical.

but sure whatever your having yourself.

So in your mind the fact that people have a direct visibility of how much water they use and have to pay for is not leading to a conversation attempt by them leading to a reduction?

Never done any improvement to your house to reduce your gas/oil bill? Never decided to unplug an electrical device to safe power?

The fact that water charges were forced onto the government by the EU/IWF etc. does not change the point that the current way of funding our future water requirements did/does not work and that just with other utilities a pay as you use system is beneficial.

We need investment into the infrastructure and the money needs to come from somewhere and it’s fair that people pay for what they use.

Has the government once again made a mess out of the implementation? Yes, and I have said so from the beginning. IW is not fit for purpose, either commercially or political. I have several times advocated that IW needs to change to become a commercially viable business that does what needs to be done, from infrastructure improvement to billing.

Does that change my stance that water charges are needed, No, I am all for a pay as you use approach for utilities.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tony EH wrote: »

Wow.

You're a joke.

So you agree that any protester should be able to attack the head of states car whenever they want? This time it was a silly little girl who got her just desserts, What if next time it's someone with more sinister intentions?

Phoebas

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, there is not enough interim measurement of flow through the network to be able to localise and identify even major leaks.

Telemetry systems only exist on a very small element of the network.

All part of the plan.

Irish Water wrote:

Irish Water will focus on reducing the running costs of providing water services. The company will invest in a modern telemetry system to ensure that adequate control, monitoring and alarm systems are in place to allow for early detection of any issues and to target where key investment is needed. By the end of 2016, Irish Water will have the core systems in place to monitor water and wastewater systems serving approximately 80% of the population

gladrags

hedtcha wrote: »

The ire and grievances that currently exist within most strata of Irish society have been generated by the current government, and past governments.
It’s a cumulative effective dating back as far as the foundation of the state. Cute hoor power aggrandizing, wealth accruing thieves such as Haughey and Ahearn, Ansbacher accounts, Garda corruption,
abdicating the responsibility for child care and education to the church, mass scale sexual abuse, Magdelane laundries, Industrial Schools, Stardust Inquiry, TD’s expenses and breath-taking arrogance, Hep-b scandals, quangos, A.I.B, golden circles, a rubber stamping energy regulator, excessive bonuses, politicians encouraging people to purchase over-priced property during the boom due to vested interests, cronyism, bonus schemes, USC, removal of funding to essential services for the most vulnerable in our society, a compliant media machine, Denis O’Brien, 160 euro a year to prop up RTE and their Steller TV personality’s giant salaries, LPT, Ivor the Engine, land rezoning, kickbacks, bugging of journalists – and now the setting up of a new quango that WILL eventually be privatised and your NEW utility bill will increase year on year. Have I left anything out? My parents accepted this as the norm back in the day, ‘That’s just the way it is’ – I don’t, I want a progressive and fair state, professionally run, where public servants are proud to serve the people. Instead we get Italy, with sh*t food.

Well put,the reality of the protests,is that there were many grievances.

And those with the courage of their conviction,have stood up to be counted.

listermint

dublin-texas wrote: »

So in your mind the fact that people have a direct visibility of how much water they use and have to pay for is not leading to a conversation attempt by them leading to a reduction?

Never done any improvement to your house to reduce your gas/oil bill? Never decided to unplug an electrical device to safe power?

The fact that water charges were forced onto the government by the EU/IWF etc. does not change the point that the current way of funding our future water requirements did/does not work and that just with other utilities a pay as you use system is beneficial.

We need investment into the infrastructure and the money needs to come from somewhere and it’s fair that people pay for what they use.

Has the government once again made a mess out of the implementation? Yes, and I have said so from the beginning. IW is not fit for purpose, either commercially or political. I have several times advocated that IW needs to change to become a commercially viable business that does what needs to be done, from infrastructure improvement to billing.

Does that change my stance that water charges are needed, No, I am all for a pay as you use approach for utilities.

So what happens when this so called conservation is achieved. How do share holders make their excess profits ?

Praytell your master plan for National Water Security since you seem to be all about protecting this natural resource ?

Highflyer13

hedtcha wrote: »

The ire and grievances that currently exist within most strata of Irish society have been generated by the current government, and past governments.
It’s a cumulative effective dating back as far as the foundation of the state. Cute hoor power aggrandizing, wealth accruing thieves such as Haughey and Ahearn, Ansbacher accounts, Garda corruption,
abdicating the responsibility for child care and education to the church, mass scale sexual abuse, Magdelane laundries, Industrial Schools, Stardust Inquiry, TD’s expenses and breath-taking arrogance, Hep-b scandals, quangos, A.I.B, golden circles, a rubber stamping energy regulator, excessive bonuses, politicians encouraging people to purchase over-priced property during the boom due to vested interests, cronyism, bonus schemes, USC, removal of funding to essential services for the most vulnerable in our society, a compliant media machine, Denis O’Brien, 160 euro a year to prop up RTE and their Steller TV personality’s giant salaries, LPT, Ivor the Engine, land rezoning, kickbacks, bugging of journalists – and now the setting up of a new quango that WILL eventually be privatised and your NEW utility bill will increase year on year. Have I left anything out? My parents accepted this as the norm back in the day, ‘That’s just the way it is’ – I don’t, I want a progressive and fair state, professionally run, where public servants are proud to serve the people. Instead we get Italy, with sh*t food.

I think your right. Theres an underlying frustration at how things are dealt with by the state simmering away in people for years. We Irish have the 'ah sure it will be grand' attitude when its not really. Nothing gets dealt with as it should or nobody is held to account over failings within the state. The blame just gets passed around until the issue dies down and the next scandal arises. Rinse, wash and repeat then.