IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

ROCKMAN

denhaagenite wrote: »

A lot of them have been. When people can't spell, have questionable grammar, resort to personal attacks or questioning "Irish- ness" during the debate, I am concerned about whether or not they have the intelligence to really inform themselves of and properly comprehend the situation and make a judgement on it. In my opinion, the anti side are for the majority guilty of this. Good communication is very important if you want your view to have an impact, point scoring should be the least of their worries.

And cheap digs always get points across and have a great impact ..you are just so clever Sir

Thank you again Sir ,
I'll be climbin back in my box now ,And woul be bothering you and the other nice gentlemen Again..............

denhaagenite

hju6 wrote: »

If you read back thru the thread you will realise the pro side are in the majority for snide remarks, one liners, roll eyes, personal attacks ( one pro sider banned recently ), deflections, name calling etc
Some of the pro posts are cringeworthy

I would say more than one of the anti side have been banned aswell, and there are going to be absolute trolls on both sides.

Obviously I have empathy for people who can't afford the charges, but the guy with the dog, only able to afford a bag of food or a bag of coal- I doubt the as yet non- existent water charges are his issue. I love my dog to death, she is really my life, but if I can't afford her food I need to find her a new home and that's it. You might say- "What if it was a child?". It's not a child. There's no children's allowance, no V de P, no CWO to help you out with a dog. If you make the decision to get one, then be aware of the cost.

And of course there is more to life than money. I can guarantee that our tax bill here is ALOT higher than your tax bill there. And we're HAPPY to pay it, because that's socialism folks. It costs money, and it doesn't happen overnight. A lot of those screaming for the anti side are talking about future generations but unless changes are made now the same mess will be there 10 years down the road. Those in their 60s now were the cause of the ruination of the country for those in their 30s- large generalisation so spare me the hair pulling please. Be the people that made the difference, not the people that only worried about themselves- if you're going to protest and scream bloody murder, let it be for a reason. Think of solutions instead of problems. All you've achieved is this stupid flat charge, which is far far worse than pay by use.

denhaagenite

ROCKMAN wrote: »

And cheap digs always get points across and have a great impact ..you are just so clever Sir

Thank you again Sir ,
I'll be climbin back in my box now ,And woul be bothering you and the other nice gentlemen Again..............

OK, I'm trying to have an adult conversation. There was no cheap dig in my post whatsoever, to the contrary, I'm trying to get us all back to a point where we can have a sane conversation about all of this, no matter what our opinions are, because that is constructive.

Tony EH

denhaagenite wrote: »

A lot of them have been. When people can't spell, have questionable grammar, resort to personal attacks or questioning "Irish- ness" during the debate, I am concerned about whether or not they have the intelligence to really inform themselves of and properly comprehend the situation and make a judgement on it. In my opinion, the anti side are for the majority guilty of this. Good communication is very important if you want your view to have an impact, point scoring should be the least of their worries.

Christ almighty.

Very, very poor indeed.

:pac:

keithclancy

hju6 wrote: »

If you read back thru the thread you will realise the pro side are in the majority for snide remarks, one liners, roll eyes, personal attacks ( one pro sider banned recently ), deflections, name calling etc
Some of the pro posts are cringeworthy

The issue is you are lumping pro and against together.

There are Pro and Against and there are people that just want clean water to come out of the tap that doesn't taste of chlorine, or look like a glass of urine.

Banjo String

denhaagenite wrote: »

A lot of them have been. When people can't spell, have questionable grammar, resort to personal attacks or questioning "Irish- ness" during the debate, I am concerned about whether or not they have the intelligence to really inform themselves of and properly comprehend the situation and make a judgement on it. In my opinion, the anti side are for the majority guilty of this. Good communication is very important if you want your view to have an impact, point scoring should be the least of their worries.

Never mind any of this "pro side, anti side" bollixxology, if the feckin Govt and irishwater had some decent PR, and was able to communicate with the electorate at some kind of meaningful level, they prob wouldn't have had to resort to the "scaffolder in a lightning storm" climbdown we've seen.

Sure it was farcical half the stuff they were coming out with, plain to see they were making it all up as they went along.

denhaagenite wrote: »

I would say more than one of the anti side have been banned aswell, and there are going to be absolute trolls on both sides.

He meant site banned.

Satriale

denhaagenite wrote: »

OK, I'm trying to have an adult conversation. There was no cheap dig in my post whatsoever, to the contrary, I'm trying to get us all back to a point where we can have a sane conversation about all of this, no matter what our opinions are, because that is constructive.

you should read your post again, because you basically smeared sh1t on every one here who differs with your opinion, because of a perceived insult from one poster.

and yes i know i didn't capitalise. (grammar nazis

---

>)

ROCKMAN

denhaagenite wrote: »

OK, I'm trying to have an adult conversation. There was no cheap dig in my post whatsoever, to the contrary, I'm trying to get us all back to a point where we can have a sane conversation about all of this, no matter what our opinions are, because that is constructive.

denhaagenite wrote: »

A lot of them have been. When people can't spell, have questionable grammar, resort to personal attacks or questioning "Irish- ness" during the debate, I am concerned about whether or not they have the intelligence to really inform themselves of and properly comprehend the situation and make a judgement on it. In my opinion, the anti side are for the majority guilty of this. Good communication is very important if you want your view to have an impact, point scoring should be the least of their worries.

I suppose it down to levels of intelligence to which way you interpret things.

Kermit.de.frog

The turnout for the Dec 10th protest is going to be hugely down on the last one despite the bluster from the hard left TDs.

ROCKMAN

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The turnout for the Dec 10th protest is going to be hugely down on the last one despite the bluster from the hard left TDs.

Is this just your opinion or do you have any cold hard facts to support this ?

keithclancy

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I suppose it down to levels of intelligence to which way you interpret things.

Ironic sentence is Ironic.

Daith

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Is this just your opinion or do you have any cold hard facts to support this ?

Cold hard facts is the last thing this thread needs.

gladrags

Banjo String wrote: »

Never mind any of this "pro side, anti side" bollixxology, if the feckin Govt and irishwater had some decent PR, and was able to communicate with the electorate at some kind of meaningful level, they prob wouldn't have had to resort to the "scaffolder in a lightning storm" climbdown we've seen.

Sure it was farcical half the stuff they were coming out with, plain to see they were making it all up as they went along.

Nothing like a dose of reality.

Lol

hju6

denhaagenite wrote: »

I would say more than one of the anti side have been banned aswell, and there are going to be absolute trolls on both sides.

Obviously I have empathy for people who can't afford the charges, but the guy with the dog, only able to afford a bag of food or a bag of coal- I doubt the as yet non- existent water charges are his issue. I love my dog to death, she is really my life, but if I can't afford her food I need to find her a new home and that's it. You might say- "What if it was a child?". It's not a child. There's no children's allowance, no V de P, no CWO to help you out with a dog. If you make the decision to get one, then be aware of the cost.

And of course there is more to life than money. I can guarantee that our tax bill here is ALOT higher than your tax bill there. And we're HAPPY to pay it, because that's socialism folks. It costs money, and it doesn't happen overnight. A lot of those screaming for the anti side are talking about future generations but unless changes are made now the same mess will be there 10 years down the road. Those in their 60s now were the cause of the ruination of the country for those in their 30s- large generalisation so spare me the hair pulling please. Be the people that made the difference, not the people that only worried about themselves- if you're going to protest and scream bloody murder, let it be for a reason. Think of solutions instead of problems. All you've achieved is this stupid flat charge, which is far far worse than pay by use.

Explain
' I can guarantee that our tax bill here is ALOT higher than your tax bill there'

Alun

Banjo String wrote: »

Never mind any of this "pro side, anti side" bollixxology, if the feckin Govt and irishwater had some decent PR, and was able to communicate with the electorate at some kind of meaningful level, they prob wouldn't have had to resort to the "scaffolder in a lightning storm" climbdown we've seen.

Sure it was farcical half the stuff they were coming out with, plain to see they were making it all up as they went along.

Even as a pro-IW'er I have to agree with you on this. Neither IW or the government have given the impression they even know what the abbreviation PR stands for.

gladrags

OK folks,we need to get this thread back on track...

With FG on 16% in the polls,and Labour on 6%.

What is the likelihood of a general election within 6 months?

And what is the likelihood of Kenny resigning,because of the water charges?

Tony EH

I'd say nil.

Kenny isn't going to call an election. They'd be crucified.

Fine Gael will try and ride out the storm and hope for calmer waters on the other end. If/when they fail, they'll simply fall back into opposition without too much fetter and default to their usual position of Fianna Fail spelt wrongly.

Labour will find that they've "rediscovered" their old values too in an unsurprising "twist", once they find themselves out of government.

keithclancy

hju6 wrote: »

Explain
' I can guarantee that our tax bill here is ALOT higher than your tax bill there'

It's called a Tax Equalisation Calculation for Seconded Employees Abroad.

In the Irish System I would pay 42%
In the Dutch System I pay 47%
In the German System I pay 44%
In the UK I would pay 52% (That was a surprise to me)

On top of that in NL you have:

• Water Rates - Per Cubic Meter (Brabant Water)
• Water Standing Charge (Brabant Water)
• Water Processing Charge (Waterschap De Dommel Waste Treatment works)
• Water Defence Charge (Rijkswaterstaat)
• City Tax 60 euros a month (Eindhoven Gemeente)
• Motor Tax (320 euros / Quarter on a 2.0 Liter Diesel)
• BPM (Belasting van personenauto's en motorrijwielen) basically the same as Irish VRT (Add roughly 30% on a standard car) a Bugatti Veyron here is 1.9 million Euro, 980000 euros of that is BPM (Registration Tax)
• The Cost to buy a house is 10%
• Mandatory Private Health Insurance, around 1200 euros per year per person, also the first 360 euros is own risk. (Although I got shafted on that one as I have to have German Insurance but still have to pay the Dutch own risk since I use the Dutch system)

Plus all the other normal costs, Electric (cheaper) Gas (more expensive)

Services here are bloody excellent though.

hju6

gladrags wrote: »

OK folks,we need to get this thread back on track...

With FG on 16% in the polls,and Labour on 6%.

What is the likelihood of a general election within 6 months?

And what is the likelihood of Kenny resigning,because of the water charges?

I think it will have to be forced, due to the delusional arrogance of FG and Kenny,

hju6

keithclancy wrote: »

It's called a Tax Equalisation Calculation for Seconded Employees Abroad.

In the Irish System I would pay 42%
In the Dutch System I pay 47%
In the German System I pay 44%
In the UK I would pay 52% (That was a surprise to me)

On top of that in NL you have:

• Water Rates - Per Cubic Meter (Brabant Water)
• Water Standing Charge (Brabant Water)
• Water Processing Charge (Waterschap De Dommel Waste Treatment works)
• Water Defence Charge (Rijkswaterstaat)
• City Tax 60 euros a month (Eindhoven Gemeente)
• Motor Tax (320 euros / Quarter on a 2.0 Liter Diesel)
• BPM (Belasting van personenauto's en motorrijwielen) basically the same as Irish VRT (Add roughly 30% on a standard car) a Bugatti Veyron here is 1.9 million Euro, 980000 euros of that is BPM (Registration Tax)
• The Cost to buy a house is 10%
• Mandatory Private Health Insurance, around 1200 euros per year per person, also the first 360 euros is own risk. (Although I got shafted on that one as I have to have German Insurance but still have to pay the Dutch own risk since I use the Dutch system)

Plus all the other normal costs, Electric (cheaper) Gas (more expensive)

Services here are bloody excellent though.

Are you posting under 2 names ?

keithclancy

hju6 wrote: »

Are you posting under 2 names ?

Unless I grew a pair of boobs ... no :pac:

denhaagenite

hju6 wrote: »

Are you posting under 2 names ?

OH beat me to it :pac:

Bottom line is, there is a bigger picture. I'm not trying to patronise but it takes seeing how it all works to realise the cost. The current Irish government, and any future Irish government, will have to make changes that not everybody is going to like because they are looking at systems that are functioning at the moment on which to model their new system. I'm not denying the cronyism, far from it, it is disgusting and needs to end. Some of the anti side here seem to think that hysterically screaming "peaceful protest" has had some impact. Quite the contrary, if the change to the proposed billing is anything to go by. Those who are attempting to legitimately voice sound opinions and compromises are being drowned out, and the changes are down to the government and IW rightly deducing that they can silence a lot of protestors, who are either out for themselves or as I said lacking sufficient comprehension, with a two card switch.

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to insult anyone and apologies to anyone who might have felt that way. My opinion and the way I judge people is subjective obviously.

Tony EH

denhaagenite wrote: »

Some of the anti side here seem to think that hysterically screaming "peaceful protest" has had some impact.

Who?

denhaagenite

Tony EH wrote: »

Who?

This dude

shinzon wrote: »

Except those that protested and won the U-turn in the first place, per useage will never come in now due to the protestors its to toxic an issue and will never be allowed by the majority.

Shin

shinzon

denhaagenite wrote: »

This dude

What the hell has what I wrote there got anything to do with screaming "peaceful protest". Are you just plucking random names from the thread now

Delusional is all I can say

Shin

denhaagenite

shinzon wrote: »

What the hell has what I wrote there got anything to do with screaming "peaceful protest". Are you just plucking random names from the thread now

Delusional is all I can say

Shin

No I'm saying the U- turn outcome of flat rate charge is worse than the pay by use system. So well done.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Because it's a stupid question.

Give us YOUR ideal Government then, please. We hear how "corrupt" this lt are, yet not one of you have offered a crediable alternative. I mean ones with well thought out workable plans, that won't send us back into the bad old days of buying elections resulting in austerity to dig us out of the mire.

hju6

denhaagenite wrote: »

No I'm saying the U- turn outcome of flat rate charge is worse than the pay by use system. So well done.

the system that has been in place for decades should have been enough to provide water and up keep of infrastructure.

successive elected incompetents have squandered the money set aside for water.

the current set of incompetents want to wash their hands of their responsibility, they are elected and employed by us to look after the infrastructure of the country.

Wasting millions setting up IW, just to get water off the balance books, so they can borrow more money to waste.

The current set of incompetent liars cannot be trusted to run the country any more and need to go.

Lies about the LPT, transparency, water conservation etc, and all they do is twist and turn trying to save their overpaid jobs.

If I lied to my employer as much as this lot, I would be sacked and in court long ago.

Breffnigolfer

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What alternative Govt do you propose?
What policies do you want it to implement?

I've said before and I'll it again. I am not an Economist or a government minister. I'm not paid enough or educated enough to say what policies should be implemented. I am simply saying that most people feel they cannot go on paying so many taxes, levies and charges on the same income they have had for over 5 years.

Irish Water and it's set up showed just how out of touch and incompetent this government was and what a bad judgement call they made this time round.

I do not know how to balance the budget for this country. I struggle to balance my own budget every week. All I know is change is needed.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Because all the cards aren't on the table.

Quit clowning around.

You mean the AAA, PBP, Sf are NOT going to scrap water charges NOR tax the rich?