IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Rubber_Soul

Chucken wrote: »

LOL

Solid argument. WP.

Pocoyo

FG crony uncle Denis O'Brien won the contract to install the meters 15 days before the his company even existed..... Dodgy corrupt idiots!

Larbre34

IPSOS MRBI poll

48% will pay
33% will not pay
11% undecided whether to pay
8% charge does not apply to them (wells and tanks)

Thats a failure to achieve critical mass, insufficient revenue stream and anything up to 730,000 court dates. Good luck with that....

Neamhshuntasach

Larbre34 wrote: »

IPSOS MRBI poll

48% will pay
33% will not pay
11% undecided whether to pay
8% charge does not apply to them (wells and tanks)

Thats a failure to achieve critical mass, insufficient revenue stream and anything up to 730,000 court dates. Good luck with that....

My sister and her friend were asked as part of this poll. They both said yes to paying. But they don't plan on paying. I asked why they said yes and they said they felt embarrassed saying no as the poll taker would think they couldn't afford it. Wonder if they were the only two like that.

LuckyLloyd

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Solid argument. WP.

I think his 'LOL' is related to the fact that people are and have been preventing installations - i.e. the word can't that you used simply doesn't apply.

Banjo String

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Given they would be fitting them on public property you're not really in much of a position to stop them though to be fair.

Funny you should say that....

when the water meter fairies call to an estate, I expect the same logic to apply.

LuckyLloyd

The next protest is on Wednesday, a working day. What type of turnout can we reasonably expect? What type of numbers would be considered successful?

I'd like to get a gauge of this in advance from both sides so that we can reference it against purported turnouts next week.

Larbre34

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The next protest is on Wednesday, a working day. What type of turnout can we reasonably expect? What type of numbers would be considered successful?

I'd like to get a gauge of this in advance from both sides so that we can reference it against purported turnouts next week.

Paul Murphy TD very stupidly made himself a hostage to fortune yesterday by suggesting the country would "be brought to a standstill" next wednesday, meaning anything less than 4.6 million people on the streets will be thrown back at him.

On a working day two weeks before Christmas, my own view is 50,000 in Dublin would be very good going, with proportionate numbers elsewhere.

shinzon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The next protest is on Wednesday, a working day. What type of turnout can we reasonably expect? What type of numbers would be considered successful?

I'd like to get a gauge of this in advance from both sides so that we can reference it against purported turnouts next week.

nobody can answer that with 100% accuracy, it will definitely be a test of how much people want IW dead and buried, its a courage of your convictions moment.

Myself personally looking at all the anti water pages and the organisation of buses etc to the event it does look to be up on the amount that went to the first rally in Dublin in terms of numbers

I would expect it to exceed the 100000 mark of last time and that would be a win in my book, anything less then that and the government will slaughter the movement and say its dead in the water so to speak, so its put up or shut up time

Shin

LuckyLloyd

Larbre34 wrote: »

Paul Murphy TD very stupidly made himself a hostage to fortune yesterday by suggesting the country would "be brought to a standstill" next wednesday, meaning anything less than 4.6 million people on the streets will be thrown back at him.

On a working day two weeks before Christmas, my own view is 50,000 in Dublin would be very good going, with proportionate numbers elsewhere.

I agree that such talk from Murphy was of no help to his side.

shinzon wrote: »

nobody can answer that with 100% accuracy, it will definitely be a test of how much people want IW dead and buried, its a courage of your convictions moment.

Myself personally looking at all the anti water pages and the organisation of buses etc to the event it does look to be up on the amount that went to the first rally in Dublin in terms of numbers

I would expect it to exceed the 100000 mark of last time and that would be a win in my book, anything less then that and the government will slaughter the movement and say its dead in the water so to speak, so its put up or shut up time

Shin

I think 100k would be a superb turnout. I am personally annoyed that the protest is on a working Wednesday coming up to Christmas. Simply is not realistic for me to attend - I'd imagine that follows for a lot of working people.

ROCKMAN

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The next protest is on Wednesday, a working day. What type of turnout can we reasonably expect? What type of numbers would be considered successful?

I'd like to get a gauge of this in advance from both sides so that we can reference it against purported turnouts next week.

Good idea

Think with everything considered ,Work day ,Government concessions etc

Under 10 -15 K would be a disaster for Anti-water and would be a signal of the end .

Between 20K -35K Wouldn't be to bad and would leave things up in the air. For both sides.

Between 35K - 50K would be a great turn out and would IMHO signal the start of a very hard road for the government.

Anything between 55K -100K and the government are ****ed ,And we'll see backbenchers starting to run for cover ,And things will start to fall apart for them and Irish Water.

Over 100K and its a massive victory for the people.
Oh For the record I expect that the number will be somewhere between 45K -60K ..

_Kaiser_

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

My sister and her friend were asked as part of this poll. They both said yes to paying. But they don't plan on paying. I asked why they said yes and they said they felt embarrassed saying no as the poll taker would think they couldn't afford it. Wonder if they were the only two like that.

Probably not - it's not as if a poll taker would give a toss either way (and if they did I'd think they'd probably reckon they weren't paying because they don't agree with it or the background to the IW farce rather than affordability), but yet (and I genuinely don't mean any offence to your sister here) far too many Irish people are more worried about keeping up appearances no matter the cost.

Rubber_Soul

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think his 'LOL' is related to the fact that people are and have been preventing installations - i.e. the word can't that you used simply doesn't apply.

Well then it's an even sillier argument than I thought it was, of course you can illegally prevent installations.

Banjo String wrote: »

Funny you should say that....

when the water meter fairies call to an estate, I expect the same logic to apply.

I'm genuinely concerned, but not at all surprised, that you can't see the difference between the two.

Banjo String

StarshipPooper wrote: »

I'm genuinely concerned, but not at all surprised, that you can't see the difference between the two.

Well, you yourself conceded that the meter will be installed on public property.

How is a homeowner supposed to keep an eye on it 24/7?

Such a high level of hatred towards Irish Water, I dont think you should be surprised if a campaign of (unofficial) meter uninstalling / damaging takes place.

keithclancy

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Good idea

Think with everything considered ,Work day ,Government concessions etc

Under 10 -15 K would be a disaster for Anti-water and would be a signal of the end .

Between 20K -35K Wouldn't be to bad and would leave things up in the air. For both sides.

Between 35K - 50K would be a great turn out and would IMHO signal the start of a very hard road for the government.

Anything between 55K -100K and the government are ****ed ,And we'll see backbenchers starting to run for cover ,And things will start to fall apart for them and Irish Water.

Over 100K and its a massive victory for the people.
Oh For the record I expect that the number will be somewhere between 45K -60K ..

Doing it on a work day is risky.

Protesting for something to go into General Taxation, while the main people that would be financing it cannot attend due to full time employment.

We shall see I guess.

Would be nice if they did it like the Germans, I went (by accident) to a DGB protest in Berlin, it was awesome, they had beer, food carts and some music.

Took about an hour to realise it was a Trade Union protesting pay cuts.

Banjo String

No matter how many attend, it will be downplayed by some on here. (i could almost name them)

I posted from the protest on the 11th, and was doubted on here, and months on, some people refuse to acknowledge that the 100knfigures was more or less spot on.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I agree that such talk from Murphy was of no help to his side.



I think 100k would be a superb turnout. I am personally annoyed that the protest is on a working Wednesday coming up to Christmas. Simply is not realistic for me to attend - I'd imagine that follows for a lot of working people.

yeah why was that decided for the protest march?? I was annoyed too as I work in Drogheda and cant come down..... its a pity. I'll be there in heart and wont be paying water charges whether I'm there or not!

ROCKMAN

keithclancy wrote: »

Doing it on a work day is risky.

Protesting for something to go into General Taxation, while the main people that would be financing it cannot attend due to full time employment.

We shall see I guess.

Would be nice if they did it like the Germans, I went (by accident) to a DGB protest in Berlin, it was awesome, they had beer, food carts and some music.

Took about an hour to realise it was a Trade Union protesting pay cuts.

1. "TO GO INTO" think its already there....
2. Not so sure about this . A lot of people are reportedly taking time off, add in extended lunch breaks and they're partners I think the full time employed could be well represented...

I do agree with you ,having the protest on a work day could be risky. As for supplying Beer to masses of Irish people are you mad lol....

Beaner1

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Good idea

Think with everything considered ,Work day ,Government concessions etc

Under 10 -15 K would be a disaster for Anti-water and would be a signal of the end .

Between 20K -35K Wouldn't be to bad and would leave things up in the air. For both sides.

Between 35K - 50K would be a great turn out and would IMHO signal the start of a very hard road for the government.

Anything between 55K -100K and the government are ****ed ,And we'll see backbenchers starting to run for cover ,And things will start to fall apart for them and Irish Water.

Over 100K and its a massive victory for the people.
Oh For the record I expect that the number will be somewhere between 45K -60K ..

It's not an election. The numbers dont matter.

Banjo String

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's not an election. The numbers dont matter.

Welcome back.

LuckyLloyd

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's not an election. The numbers dont matter.

Oh yeah? Is your position therefore that the number of protestors was not a factor in the government climb downs achieved to date? That it the protests would have been less in number the government would still have caved?

keithclancy

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's not an election. The numbers dont matter.

I think you need at least 3 people for some sort of media coverage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_llr6_71USI

:pac:

ROCKMAN

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's not an election. The numbers dont matter.

Totally disagree ,
If the numbers are small it lets/helps the Government swipe the issue to the side and blissfully continue on as normal ...
If the numbers are huge it send a clear message that even this Government cannot spin or walk away from.

Neamhshuntasach

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Probably not - it's not as if a poll taker would give a toss either way (and if they did I'd think they'd probably reckon they weren't paying because they don't agree with it or the background to the IW farce rather than affordability), but yet (and I genuinely don't mean any offence to your sister here) far too many Irish people are more worried about keeping up appearances no matter the cost.

I agree. That was my point. She was far too worried about what the poll taker would think even though she has millions and dresses the part. And most likely, he wouldn't have cared in the slightest the reasons behind her saying no. I was just curious, if many Irish people with money that don't agree with the charges would be somewhat too proud to say they won't be paying when asked.

keithclancy

ROCKMAN wrote: »

[/B]

Totally disagree ,
If the numbers are small it lets/helps the Government swipe the issue to the side and blissfully continue on as normal ...
If the numbers are huge it send a clear message that even this Government cannot spin or walk away from.

If they can manage to distance themselves from the Skangers and the faux republican nutters it will help as well.

E.G. This guy:
http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/09/protesters-pictured-in-dublin-city-this-a-2-525x500.jpg

ROCKMAN

keithclancy wrote: »

If they can manage to distance themselves from the Skangers and the faux republican nutters it will help as well.

E.G. This guy:
http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/09/protesters-pictured-in-dublin-city-this-a-2-525x500.jpg

I totally agree 100% no place for these nutters

But they are nutters on both sides

http://www.finegael.ie/_internal/cimg!0/623879yro3jo4ir6y0veuygxcluo2cz

Tony EH

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The next protest is on Wednesday, a working day. What type of turnout can we reasonably expect? What type of numbers would be considered successful?

I'd like to get a gauge of this in advance from both sides so that we can reference it against purported turnouts next week.

Personally, I would find it very hard to call and I find the choice of a mid week, working day, a strange one to say the least.

I'd imagine there'll be a large enough turnout, because this issue exercises a huge number of peoples minds, but inevitably, I'd say numbers will be down due to the fact that it's a Wednesday.

In any case, regardless of the hundreds of thousands who have marched already, the best and most effective protest remains not paying and therefore not funding the fat disaster that is Irish Water.

LuckyLloyd

Tony EH wrote: »

Personally, I would find it very hard to call and I find the choice of a mid week, working day, a strange one to say the least.

I'd imagine there'll be a large enough turnout, because this issue exercises a huge number of peoples minds, but inevitably, I'd say numbers will be down due to the fact that it's a Wednesday.

In any case, regardless of the hundreds of thousands who have marched already, the best and most effective protest remains not paying and therefore not funding the fat disaster that is Irish Water.

I strongly agree with the last part, though I think public protests have been effective thus far and should continue.

Keep squeezing. Don't pay.

Tony EH

keithclancy wrote: »

Would be nice if they did it like the Germans, I went (by accident) to a DGB protest in Berlin, it was awesome, they had beer, food carts and some music.

:pac:

If they had beer, 80% of Dublin would turn up.

shinzon

in all honesty it shouldn't matter what day of the week it is protests shouldn't be organised for the convenience of the protestors. I think the very fact that its organised on a Wednesday is to show people getting off work to support the cause, that the workers are actually coming out to scare the government.

Risky it maybe but theres been enough time to organise the day off or get extended lunch breaks or shift swaps at this stage so there should be no excuses not to get to Dublin, there will always be people that cant organise it and its fully understandable given there particular circumstances.

Sorry to be blunt about it but you either want to have IW gone and have had the time to get your time organised around the protest or you don't

That's the choice here

Shin