IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

ROCKMAN

Right sorry to go off topic for a minute but anyone see anything of Irish Steve ???????

Was he banned ?
Did Enda have him silenced ?
Did Denis pay him off ?
Did he get seduced and changed over to the pro side ? (yes I'm looking at you Maryanne )

Sorry just miss reading his nice short to the point posts.....

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Still not seeing the confusion here. mandate has the right2water information on there site true enough yet right2water.ie is the official website of the campaign. Siptu is not listed anywhere because they weren't a member of the campaign in the first place and have only recently said theyd held talks with the right2water campaign about supporting it

Quite simply mandates info is only that info and the site is the official presence of the campaign on the web

Shin

To find out who was running right2water.ie I had to lookup the whois registration information for the domain.

The only reason it is clear to you now is because I pointed it out.

Right2Water is a pre-existing organisation with members in Ireland (Siptu/Impact)

Mandate have simply taken the same name for a similar purpose but with different objectives and goals.

The Right2Water run by Mandate is not the Right2Water that SIPTU and Impact are a member of.

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

To find out who was running right2water.ie I had to lookup the whois registration information for the domain.

The only reason it is clear to you now is because I pointed it out.

Right2Water is a pre-existing organisation with members in Ireland (Siptu/Impact)

Mandate have simply taken the same name for a similar purpose but with different objectives and goals.

The Right2Water run by Mandate is not the Right2Water that SIPTU and Impact are a member of.

Nope ive always known whose running what and who its the way your saying it it seems to be a revelation to you, ive been a member of the right2water facebook page since it was setup.

Shin

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Nope ive always known whose running what and who its the way your saying it it seems to be a revelation to you, ive been a member of the right2water facebook page since it was setup.

Shin

Well for me, they took someone elses name and misrepresented themselves.

I accept your disagreement of course.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

So for me, Right2Water just lost all credibility.

I was under the impression that they were an Irish arm of Right2Water Europe, which was strange because they don't appear to follow the same way of thinking.

I just received confirmation from Right2Water Europe that they are not affiliated in any way and just chose to use the same name.

Will be looking further into it as I'm not really sure if the European Organisation is fully aware how their name is being used.

so? it changes nothing for me!

shinzon

from Kathy Sinnott

the current situation as it stands as regards article 9.4

The Irish Exemption”

Update on Current Situation


by Kathy Sinnott

I recently tried to alert people to the existence of the “Irish Exemption”, Ireland's unique exemption from domestic water charging based on Article 9.4 of the EU Water Framework Directive. The exemption is based on the Irish Department of the Environment's commitment, strategy and budget to rectify the inadequacies in our water management without metering. This commitment is recorded in the 2008 Irish River Basin Management Plan. Former Minister for Environment John Gormley was able to confirm in 2008 that Ireland had obtained and was availing of the exemption from household water charges.I was assured at the time by the European Commission that the EU couldn't not take the exemption from us but Ireland could cancel it.
This week Minister for Environment Alan Kelly publicly denied we currently had an exemption from domestic water charging. He stated "We not have a derogation because we now have committed to the model that we have." Fortunately he is wrong.

In trying to confirm the current situation, I contact Brussels.

The good news is that the Water Framework Directive Article 9.4 exemption is still in place. The challenging news is that it is under imminent threat of cancellation by the Minister for the Environment, Alan Kelly himself!

In accordance with Article 9.4 of the Water Framework Directive our exemption is embedded in the 2008 River Basin Management Plan. Any renewal or cancellation of the exemption is done in the next 7 year RBMP. And it is the Minister for the Environment who assembles and submits this plan

This 2015 River Basin Management Plan is due on be handed into Brussels by New Years Day. Both the Irish government and the European Commission are expecting that Minister Kelly will not renew the exemption and will instead include domestic water charging as part of Irelands strategy.

Why are they so sure that the plan as yet incomplete and unpublished will include water charging? Because in 2010 the Troika told us to privatize and charge for water and both the Irish government and the EU Commission assume that we will meekly obey, that is we will state in the River Basin report that the only way we can protect our rivers is by charging for domestic water use!

But is this true?

If the money spent on metering is spent on pipe work the leaks will be repaired. And if the money already collected in taxes for water infrastructure was spent on upgrading treatment plants we would see a significant improvement to the water infrastructure to domestic homes and meet our part of the next 7 year targets on river basin management.

Because the EU water legislation is based on the “polluter pays principle”, the most obvious strategy for financing clean water is to identify the real polluters of water in Ireland and make them pay.

In the 2008 plan, the sources of pollution are listed. They included agriculture and rural septic tanks. These sources have been tackled at great expense to rural dwellers and significant improvement has been made and progress is ongoing. Other sources like quarrying, mining including old tailings ponds, leaking landfills, forestry, industry are still major sources of pollution. If it is the polluter who is supposed to pay then it should be these for profit industries which should be paying for the purification of the water they polluter and for preventative measures not the ordinary householder who is already paying.

To give an example. We are told we need domestic water charging to deal with cryptosporidium in our water supply. But again is this true? Uplands all over the country were planted in coniferous forests.. Unlike deciduous forests natural to Ireland, these plantations of Sitka spruce trees acidify the soil and do not break down animal waste effectively. After a few decades these forests are “clear felled” with heavy machinery that rips up the forests leaving the soils exposed. Heavy rains wash the animal waste and acid soil down hill to the river below. The resulting pollution provides ideal condition for cryptosporidium and other contaminants. Why would the people in these areas who are innocent of causing the problem and who are already bearing the expense of bottled and boiled water asked to foot the bill for cleaning up water pollution they did not cause. The Department of the Environment should instead go to the real polluters,and recover the cost of cleaning up polluted water, or better preventing the pollution in the first place.

Privatization will not solve our water infrastructure problems because private companies are geared to profit. It will make sense to invest in 500 meters of new piping in a city because it will serve hundreds of paying houses. But it will cut into profits to replace 500 meters of leaking pipes in which serves only 5 homes. A privatized water system will still be a leaky water system!

Alan Kelly can save the Irish Exemption by making the commitment in the River Basin Management Plan that actual water polluters will pay, that funds collected for water infrastructure in existing taxes will be used to upgrade our systems and by creating incentives for improvements to domestic water use like rain water collection system.

There is still time to save the Irish Exemption...and the Irish people are in the mood to defend it because once the exemption is gone it is gone for good. We have one month to save it.

God bless

Kathy Sinnott

Former Member of the European Parliament

Former Member of the European Parliament Committee on Environment, Public Health and Food Safety


Link here http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/


Shin

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

[/B]

so? it changes nothing for me!

Do you support the Right2water campaign ?

And if so which one ?

Banjo String

Banjo String wrote: »

It wasn't supposed to be, just pointing out that you seem to be taking this to another level.

Whoever said Right2Water-Campai here had a connection to any other one?

I think you made these assumptions yourself.


When I attended the last protest, I represented my wife, kids and myself.

I don't need a leader/group to influence my decisions or to make representations on my behalf.

So my answer is no.

completely agree! it makes no difference who you think is "representing" us - Right2Water Europe/ Ireland whatever....... I represent myself and so do most. We are not part of a group and can protest with or without representation. KeithClancy you need to stop over analysising this.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Do you support the Right2water campaign ?

And if so which one ?

I actually dont care. I will protest and represent myself - I dont need to be affiliated to any group - I just know how all these charges taxes and levies have affected me and I cant afford another cent. I earn 208euro a week. I signed up to IW initially but that was before the myriad of revelations came out about its set up and overstaffing, bonuses etc etc. I have no trust now. Is that ok for you?

gladrags

keithclancy wrote: »

Do you support the Right2water campaign ?

And if so which one ?

What do you think?

Bearing in mind that 1+1=2

keithclancy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

completely agree! it makes no difference who you think is "representing" us - Right2Water Europe/ Ireland whatever....... I represent myself and so do most. We are not part of a group and can protest with or without representation. KeithClancy you need to stop over analysising this.

That's fine, but I support right2water. Not the one campaigning in their name with different goals

Have notified both parties now.

Let's see.

shinzon

Well looks like SIPTUS in finally

Message from the SIPTU National Executive...
"...we would encourage members to participate in the Right2Water protest which is scheduled to take place at Leinster House, Merrion Square, Dublin 2 at 1.00 p.m. on Wednesday 10th December 2014, of their own volition, if they are free and available to do so. We believe that every peacefully conducted protest and democratic action has the potential to help further the demands for an adequate supply of water to meet the normal domestic needs of every household at no direct cost and a Referendum to change the Constitution so as to prohibit the privatisation of the public water supply."

Shin

gladrags

shinzon wrote: »

Well looks like SIPTUS in finally

Message from the SIPTU National Executive...
"...we would encourage members to participate in the Right2Water protest which is scheduled to take place at Leinster House, Merrion Square, Dublin 2 at 1.00 p.m. on Wednesday 10th December 2014, of their own volition, if they are free and available to do so. We believe that every peacefully conducted protest and democratic action has the potential to help further the demands for an adequate supply of water to meet the normal domestic needs of every household at no direct cost and a Referendum to change the Constitution so as to prohibit the privatisation of the public water supply."

Shin

Siptu are corrupt.

They were bought,and they are trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Too late,slush funds and all that.

ROCKMAN

gladrags wrote: »

Siptu are corrupt.

They were bought,and they are trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Too late,slush funds and all that.

I suppose the other way of looking at it Is Christ things must be really going the ANTI -Water way if Siptu are trying to jump on the bandwagon

hju6

shinzon wrote: »

from Kathy Sinnott

the current situation as it stands as regards article 9.4

The Irish Exemption”

Update on Current Situation


by Kathy Sinnott

I recently tried to alert people to the existence of the “Irish Exemption”, Ireland's unique exemption from domestic water charging based on Article 9.4 of the EU Water Framework Directive. The exemption is based on the Irish Department of the Environment's commitment, strategy and budget to rectify the inadequacies in our water management without metering. This commitment is recorded in the 2008 Irish River Basin Management Plan. Former Minister for Environment John Gormley was able to confirm in 2008 that Ireland had obtained and was availing of the exemption from household water charges.I was assured at the time by the European Commission that the EU couldn't not take the exemption from us but Ireland could cancel it.
This week Minister for Environment Alan Kelly publicly denied we currently had an exemption from domestic water charging. He stated "We not have a derogation because we now have committed to the model that we have." Fortunately he is wrong.

In trying to confirm the current situation, I contact Brussels.

The good news is that the Water Framework Directive Article 9.4 exemption is still in place. The challenging news is that it is under imminent threat of cancellation by the Minister for the Environment, Alan Kelly himself!

In accordance with Article 9.4 of the Water Framework Directive our exemption is embedded in the 2008 River Basin Management Plan. Any renewal or cancellation of the exemption is done in the next 7 year RBMP. And it is the Minister for the Environment who assembles and submits this plan

This 2015 River Basin Management Plan is due on be handed into Brussels by New Years Day. Both the Irish government and the European Commission are expecting that Minister Kelly will not renew the exemption and will instead include domestic water charging as part of Irelands strategy.

Why are they so sure that the plan as yet incomplete and unpublished will include water charging? Because in 2010 the Troika told us to privatize and charge for water and both the Irish government and the EU Commission assume that we will meekly obey, that is we will state in the River Basin report that the only way we can protect our rivers is by charging for domestic water use!

But is this true?

If the money spent on metering is spent on pipe work the leaks will be repaired. And if the money already collected in taxes for water infrastructure was spent on upgrading treatment plants we would see a significant improvement to the water infrastructure to domestic homes and meet our part of the next 7 year targets on river basin management.

Because the EU water legislation is based on the “polluter pays principle”, the most obvious strategy for financing clean water is to identify the real polluters of water in Ireland and make them pay.

In the 2008 plan, the sources of pollution are listed. They included agriculture and rural septic tanks. These sources have been tackled at great expense to rural dwellers and significant improvement has been made and progress is ongoing. Other sources like quarrying, mining including old tailings ponds, leaking landfills, forestry, industry are still major sources of pollution. If it is the polluter who is supposed to pay then it should be these for profit industries which should be paying for the purification of the water they polluter and for preventative measures not the ordinary householder who is already paying.

To give an example. We are told we need domestic water charging to deal with cryptosporidium in our water supply. But again is this true? Uplands all over the country were planted in coniferous forests.. Unlike deciduous forests natural to Ireland, these plantations of Sitka spruce trees acidify the soil and do not break down animal waste effectively. After a few decades these forests are “clear felled” with heavy machinery that rips up the forests leaving the soils exposed. Heavy rains wash the animal waste and acid soil down hill to the river below. The resulting pollution provides ideal condition for cryptosporidium and other contaminants. Why would the people in these areas who are innocent of causing the problem and who are already bearing the expense of bottled and boiled water asked to foot the bill for cleaning up water pollution they did not cause. The Department of the Environment should instead go to the real polluters,and recover the cost of cleaning up polluted water, or better preventing the pollution in the first place.

Privatization will not solve our water infrastructure problems because private companies are geared to profit. It will make sense to invest in 500 meters of new piping in a city because it will serve hundreds of paying houses. But it will cut into profits to replace 500 meters of leaking pipes in which serves only 5 homes. A privatized water system will still be a leaky water system!

Alan Kelly can save the Irish Exemption by making the commitment in the River Basin Management Plan that actual water polluters will pay, that funds collected for water infrastructure in existing taxes will be used to upgrade our systems and by creating incentives for improvements to domestic water use like rain water collection system.

There is still time to save the Irish Exemption...and the Irish people are in the mood to defend it because once the exemption is gone it is gone for good. We have one month to save it.

God bless

Kathy Sinnott

Former Member of the European Parliament

Former Member of the European Parliament Committee on Environment, Public Health and Food Safety

Shin

Once again the incompetents lie to us, Kelly saying things before he has moved to cancel it.

Fr. Peter McVerry on Mat Cooper show tonight talking of family's sleeping in the Airport and Garda stations, and other people putting their children into care so the children don't have to sleep on the street with them.

And all the while the incompetents speak of a recovery in the ecomomy, for a few maybe but not for all.

Time for a change and the sooner the better.

shinzon

gladrags wrote: »

Siptu are corrupt.

They were bought,and they are trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Too late,slush funds and all that.

The way id look at it is more bodies come the 10th more the merrier,

Shin

gladrags

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I suppose the other way of looking at it Is Christ things must be really going the ANTI -Water way if Siptu are trying to jump on the bandwagon

Yes.

They were found wanting.

They betrayed those who the supposedly represented.

James Connolly gave his life for these b******s

Pocoyo

People dying on our streets but the government wont raise rent allowance instead they plan on charging the poor twice for water.

I hope this and the former government can be brought to court by any new party in power. Stripped of entitlements and 20 years in prison will appease the public.

falan

keithclancy wrote: »

When you use an organisations name you represent yourself as that organisation.

Similar to if someone setup a shop called Tesco that sold groceries, its possible people might think they were related to Tesco the UK retail giant.

Been on about 5 or 6 water protests in the last few months and Right2water havent organised any of them apart from the one in Dublin.

keithclancy

Pocoyo wrote: »

People dying on our streets but the government wont raise rent allowance instead they plan on charging the poor twice for water.

I hope this and the former government can be brought to court by any new party in power. Stripped of entitlements and 20 years in prison will appease the public.

People have been dying on the streets for years. You only care now ?

Pocoyo

keithclancy wrote: »

People have been dying on the streets for years. You only care now ?

I have always cared,Heres a tip for you if you are ever donating your change in a shop please choose an irish charity, thanks.

arse..biscuits

keithclancy wrote: »

People have been dying on the streets for years. You only care now ?

Where did you get the impression that they only care now?

yipeeeee

Pocoyo wrote: »

People dying on our streets but the government wont raise rent allowance instead they plan on charging the poor twice for water.

I hope this and the former government can be brought to court by any new party in power. Stripped of entitlements and 20 years in prison will appease the public.

Ah yes more points scoring by bringing a dead man into it who had two houses bought for him and refused help but let's blame enda Kenny and expect him to solve a global problem of homelessness.

Roger Hassenforder

Pocoyo wrote: »

People dying on our streets but the government wont raise rent allowance instead they plan on charging the poor twice for water.

and if they raise rent allowance, where's that money going to come from, and where will it go?
from tax payers to landlords...
that's not a solution.

Xios

Satriale

Wasnt that lad playing the guitar on the high stool installing meters on another video a few weeks back? Fair dues to him, he has a fine voice!

keithclancy

Pocoyo wrote: »

I have always cared,Heres a tip for you if you are ever donating your change in a shop please choose an irish charity, thanks.

So how is this relevant to this topic ?

BTW .. Being homeless during the boom was worse than it is now.

Going Forward

shinzon wrote: »

from Kathy Sinnott

the current situation as it stands as regards article 9.4

The Irish Exemption”

Update on Current Situation


by Kathy Sinnott

I recently tried to alert people to the existence of the “Irish Exemption”, Ireland's unique exemption from domestic water charging based on Article 9.4 of the EU Water Framework Directive. The exemption is based on the Irish Department of the Environment's commitment, strategy and budget to rectify the inadequacies in our water management without metering. This commitment is recorded in the 2008 Irish River Basin Management Plan. Former Minister for Environment John Gormley was able to confirm in 2008 that Ireland had obtained and was availing of the exemption from household water charges.I was assured at the time by the European Commission that the EU couldn't not take the exemption from us but Ireland could cancel it.
This week Minister for Environment Alan Kelly publicly denied we currently had an exemption from domestic water charging. He stated "We not have a derogation because we now have committed to the model that we have." Fortunately he is wrong.

In trying to confirm the current situation, I contact Brussels.

The good news is that the Water Framework Directive Article 9.4 exemption is still in place. The challenging news is that it is under imminent threat of cancellation by the Minister for the Environment, Alan Kelly himself!

In accordance with Article 9.4 of the Water Framework Directive our exemption is embedded in the 2008 River Basin Management Plan. Any renewal or cancellation of the exemption is done in the next 7 year RBMP. And it is the Minister for the Environment who assembles and submits this plan

This 2015 River Basin Management Plan is due on be handed into Brussels by New Years Day. Both the Irish government and the European Commission are expecting that Minister Kelly will not renew the exemption and will instead include domestic water charging as part of Irelands strategy.

Why are they so sure that the plan as yet incomplete and unpublished will include water charging? Because in 2010 the Troika told us to privatize and charge for water and both the Irish government and the EU Commission assume that we will meekly obey, that is we will state in the River Basin report that the only way we can protect our rivers is by charging for domestic water use!

But is this true?

If the money spent on metering is spent on pipe work the leaks will be repaired. And if the money already collected in taxes for water infrastructure was spent on upgrading treatment plants we would see a significant improvement to the water infrastructure to domestic homes and meet our part of the next 7 year targets on river basin management.

Because the EU water legislation is based on the “polluter pays principle”, the most obvious strategy for financing clean water is to identify the real polluters of water in Ireland and make them pay.

In the 2008 plan, the sources of pollution are listed. They included agriculture and rural septic tanks. These sources have been tackled at great expense to rural dwellers and significant improvement has been made and progress is ongoing. Other sources like quarrying, mining including old tailings ponds, leaking landfills, forestry, industry are still major sources of pollution. If it is the polluter who is supposed to pay then it should be these for profit industries which should be paying for the purification of the water they polluter and for preventative measures not the ordinary householder who is already paying.

To give an example. We are told we need domestic water charging to deal with cryptosporidium in our water supply. But again is this true? Uplands all over the country were planted in coniferous forests.. Unlike deciduous forests natural to Ireland, these plantations of Sitka spruce trees acidify the soil and do not break down animal waste effectively. After a few decades these forests are “clear felled” with heavy machinery that rips up the forests leaving the soils exposed. Heavy rains wash the animal waste and acid soil down hill to the river below. The resulting pollution provides ideal condition for cryptosporidium and other contaminants. Why would the people in these areas who are innocent of causing the problem and who are already bearing the expense of bottled and boiled water asked to foot the bill for cleaning up water pollution they did not cause. The Department of the Environment should instead go to the real polluters,and recover the cost of cleaning up polluted water, or better preventing the pollution in the first place.

Privatization will not solve our water infrastructure problems because private companies are geared to profit. It will make sense to invest in 500 meters of new piping in a city because it will serve hundreds of paying houses. But it will cut into profits to replace 500 meters of leaking pipes in which serves only 5 homes. A privatized water system will still be a leaky water system!

Alan Kelly can save the Irish Exemption by making the commitment in the River Basin Management Plan that actual water polluters will pay, that funds collected for water infrastructure in existing taxes will be used to upgrade our systems and by creating incentives for improvements to domestic water use like rain water collection system.

There is still time to save the Irish Exemption...and the Irish people are in the mood to defend it because once the exemption is gone it is gone for good. We have one month to save it.

God bless

Kathy Sinnott

Former Member of the European Parliament

Former Member of the European Parliament Committee on Environment, Public Health and Food Safety

Shin

Any link to this Shin?

All the protest groups seem to have it published, but I cant find the source.

Isn't it a bit odd that even at this stage, the Department of the Environment still promotes the non charging of domestic water usage:

"Government policy requires local authorities to recover the cost of providing water services from the users of these services, with the exception of households using the services for domestic purposes.
This is in accordance with the polluter pays principle and the requirements of Article 9 of the EU Water Framework Directive."

-whilst at the same time promoting charging domestic users for water, on a different part of the same page!!

Anyone reading this from afar would think that signing up for Irish Water was purely "optional", if you have a few bob to spare throw it into the bucket, if not, don't worry, we actually have a derogation anyway which means we can't make you, and we're not going to turn off your water or anything like that if you don't.

hju6

keithclancy wrote: »

People have been dying on the streets for years. You only care now ?

No, this country was founded as a Republic, the constitution was written to include all, protect family and children no exclusions,

Upwards rents, lower wages, extra taxes, LPT and water, plus the stealth taxes are forcing the lower paid working family's out of their houses.

So now because of over taxing the poor and driving them from their homes, general taxation will have to rise to cover the cost of rehousing them, plus the cost of the support services,

Chucken

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/The_people_of_Ireland_Stop_Alan_Kelly_from_giving_away_Irelands_Domestic_Water_Charge_Exemption/?aNTBKib