IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

suicide_circus

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Really?
Today, as on the last two marches, there was a considerable cross-section of society.
You're not focusing on the stupid neanderthals of eirigi now are you?

If 30, 000 people attended the protest today, dosnt that mean that 4, 470, 000 people didn't?

Sir Oxman

Foxhound38 wrote: »

You realize he was essentially given a poison chalice here? This is big Phil's doing, not Alan Kelly's.

I couldn't care less, he's one of the loons in the driving seat now - if he was a man of principle he'd do the right thing - resign if he doesn't believe in it.
<--I don't know whether the ladder-climber believes in anything bar his own new title and career.

oppenheimer1

Tinkersbell wrote: »

PS workers, private sector workers, Gardai, pensioners, women with children, self employed, PAYE staff, nurses, doctors, builders, pensioners and unemployed etc etc

Think that's fairly representative of Irish society as a whole ok.

It was pensioners and the unemployed that were out in force today. In other words those that get the most from the state. The rest of us were at work paying for their day out.

Amirani

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Really?
Today, as on the last two marches, there was a considerable cross-section of society.
You're not focusing on the stupid neanderthals of eirigi now are you?

"Around 18 months ago, a survey conducted by Amarach Research asked three simple questions about how people wanted to pay for water: would they pay by use (meters); by flat charge (the method we’ve ended up with); or by increased income tax and VAT (the one favoured by protesters)? Half said they would opt to pay by use; over a third by flat charge. That left just 16 in a 100 who wanted to pay for their water through general taxation"

Fine Gael promised to introduce water charges before the last election, they were the most popular party in the State. For all the people out protesting today, far more people said they didn't care enough or didn't support it by choosing to no go. 4.5 million or so.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

But these protesters did think of themselves.

Where were they protesting over some people in this country who always had to pay directly for water or have none?

sorry that sentence doesnt make any sense?

LorMal

Falthyron wrote: »

So, the 30-40,000 are representative of Irish Society as a whole? What about the other ~4,500,000? They are just..
Of course not everyone who are not in favour of the Governments position are protesting.
If those who support the imposition of Irish Water were asked to march next week, how many do you think would turn up? 11..12?

Sir Oxman

Falthyron wrote: »

So, the 30-40,000 are representative of Irish Society as a whole? What about the other ~4,500,000? They are just...inconsequential?

Look, it's like those voter polls you see in newspapers. 4.5milion people are never all going to make it or even want to march so what you get is a crowd of many thousands (let's split the difference this time and say 50k) and you garner from what walks of life they are from that you surmise.

It's a sample which is why we have seen the 1st climbdown by this govt with a massive majority after the first two protests - they're scared because they saw the amount and types of people who are disgusted by what they are railroading through in this country.

It's not that difficult.

Amirani

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Look, it's like those voter polls you see in newspapers. 4.5milion people are never all going to make it or even want to march so what you get is a crowd of many thousands (let's split the difference this time and say 50k) and you garner from what walks of life they are from that you surmise.

It's a sample

That's not how you take a representative sample. This a massively self-selected sample of people. By definition they're all anti-water charges or whatever, they're also all the sort of people who are willing to take time off work to protest (or they don't work). That's not representative, regardless of how the crowd was made up.

Falthyron

LorMal wrote: »

Falthyron wrote: »

So, the 30-40,000 are representative of Irish Society as a whole? What about the other ~4,500,000? They are just...inconsequential?[/

There are not 5 million citizens in ROI. Of course not everyone who are not in favour of the Governments position are protesting.
If those who support the imposition of Irish Water were asked to march next week, how many do you think would turn up? 11..12?

I didn't say there were 5 million. I said 4.5 million. According to CSO, there are 4,588,000. So my estimate was in fact quite accurate.

People generally don't march in support of something, they just let it be. 30-40,000 is nowhere near representative of the population. There are 350,000 people on Social Welfare. Even 350,000 and their views are not entirely reflective of Irish society.

We need to put some perspective on the word 'majority'. A 'majority' voted the current government into power and a small 'minority' are protesting their decisions.

end of the road

keithclancy wrote: »

they p1ssed off the hard working locals of the City with the largest population in Ireland.

they didn't piss me off. the few rabblers will get over it once they get home

My name is URL

suicide_circus wrote: »

If 30, 000 people attended the protest today, dosnt that mean that 4, 470, 000 people didn't?

What does that have to do with whether or not the people at the protest represented a cross section of society?

People from all backgrounds were in attendance, that's what represents a cross section of society... not the numbers present.

keithclancy

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Look, it's like those voter polls you see in newspapers. 4.5milion people are never all going to make it or even want to march so what you get is a crowd of many thousands (let's split the difference this time and say 50k) and you garner from what walks of life they are from that you surmise.

It's a sample which is why we have seen the 1st climbdown by this govt with a massive majority after the first two protests - they're scared because they saw the amount and types of people who are disgusted by what they are railroading through in this country.

It's not that difficult.

Then it was not a clear poll as many people in the protest were not protesting about water charges.

end of the road

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you listing the professions of the hundreds of thousands who have been stuck in traffic all day?

nobody has been stuck in traffic all day. for a few minutes here and there but not all day

[QUOTE=gerard_65;93391631]Just home after a long cold walk. All cross-city buses stopped. About 50 stupid looking ball-bags sitting on O'Connell Bridge. Hundreds standing at bus stops on the way home not knowing what was going on.
Had to walk passed these morons, a right bunch of free loaders. Don't know why they were protesting, by the look of them they don't use much water to wash.
Fcuk Paul Murphy, Boyd-Barrett and this shower of clowns.[/QUOTE]


are you serious? I walk 5 km to work an 5km home every single day, rain, sleet or snow to save money. Its cheaper to wear out shoes and boots than buy bus tickets or pay for car parking on just 208euro a week (CE Scheme).
I am not unwashed, uneducated, a scumbag, a free loader, or a moron. I have a degree and worked in banking and lost my job. Thank God you only had a long cold walk home today - and not every single day.:(

dashcamdanny

end of the road wrote: »

a bunch of old rabel rabel generalization bull****. you were always going to pay. enjoy being screwed to keep a few failures in a high paying job

Yeah its generalisation. But its the truth.

Complete shambles of a set up. But if you think you will not pay more eventually, you are fooling yourself.

From what I hear from seemingly intelligent impartial people on the radio and TV, the water system needs more investment than it is currently getting.
No getting away from it.

That money has to come from ALL the people using it. Hopefully not just the working class in society.

Pocoyo

Diego Simeone wrote: »

"Around 18 months ago, a survey conducted by Amarach Research asked three simple questions about how people wanted to pay for water: would they pay by use (meters); by flat charge (the method we’ve ended up with); or by increased income tax and VAT (the one favoured by protesters)? Half said they would opt to pay by use; over a third by flat charge. That left just 16 in a 100 who wanted to pay for their water through general taxation"

Fine Gael promised to introduce water charges before the last election, they were the most popular party in the State. For all the people out protesting today, far more people said they didn't care enough or didn't support it by choosing to no go. 4.5 million or so.

Whats your opinion on water privatization do you support it?

Amirani

My name is URL wrote: »

People from all backgrounds were in attendance, that's what represents a cross section of society... not the numbers present.

No it's not. It represents a cross section of society that are willing to take time off work (or don't work). That doesn't constitute a sample of the population.

Amirani

Pocoyo wrote: »

Whats your opinion on water privatization do you support it?

No.

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

they didn't piss me off. the few rabblers will get over it once they get home

Well they pissed me off. They closed the city centre to traffic at evening rush hour and cost me more than €200 in the process, more than the annual charge for water

Pocoyo

Diego Simeone wrote: »

No.

Then stop supporting this silly travesty of a government.

Penny Tration

end of the road wrote: »

they didn't piss me off. the few rabblers will get over it once they get home

Few rabblers?

You mean the thousands of people stuck in traffic all evening? The gardai who were injured? The poor bus drivers who had to deal with diversions and delays and the inevitable ****e that came with that? The older people, stuck in the cold because the buses STILL can't run?

It's more than a 'few.'

I was actually in support of the protesters (as my much earlier posts in this thread show), but they can fcuk off now.

Falthyron

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Look, it's like those voter polls you see in newspapers. 4.5milion people are never all going to make it or even want to march so what you get is a crowd of many thousands (let's split the difference this time and say 50k) and you garner from what walks of life they are from that you surmise.

It's a sample which is why we have seen the 1st climbdown by this govt with a massive majority after the first two protests - they're scared because they saw the amount and types of people who are disgusted by what they are railroading through in this country.

It's not that difficult.

Indeed it is not that difficult. It is not that difficult for workers to organise a day of leave or use a holiday to come out and protest against something that is apparently ruining the country. And yet, only 30,000-40,000 turned up. It is not that difficult to see that the protesters are nothing more than a vocal minority. They talk about wanting democracy to rule over the affairs of the country, but that requires a majority. Where was the majority today? Where were the workers taking a day off to join the protesters? Nowhere to be seen. Well, actually, they are stuck on O'Connell street to be precise, trying to get home.

I get it. You want your cause to be a success, to win, to feel validated. But, if you want democracy to win, then you have to respect the 'majority'. Maybe, 2016 will bring a new government, who knows. But right now, the protesters and a small, vocal minority. The numbers reflect that, if nothing else.

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It was pensioners and the unemployed that were out in force today. In other words those that get the most from the state.

no they weren't. it was a cross section of people from all walks of life.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The rest of us were at work paying for their day out.

no we weren't all at work. many of us were protesting

Pocoyo

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Few rabblers?

You mean the thousands of people stuck in traffic all evening? The gardai who were injured? The poor bus drivers who had to deal with diversions and delays and the inevitable ****e that came with that? The older people, stuck in the cold because the buses STILL can't run?

It's more than a 'few.'

I was actually in support of the protesters (as my much earlier posts in this thread show), but they can fcuk off now.

Im more concerned about the kids that will go hungry because their families cant afford huge water bills.

Penny Tration

end of the road wrote: »

no they weren't. it was a cross section of people from all walks of life.



no we weren't all at work. many of us were protesting

And I'd wager that the majority of the protesters are unemployed.

Amirani

end of the road wrote: »

no we weren't all at work. many of us were protesting

Many = approximately 1% of the population. Right.

Tinkersbell

Falthyron wrote: »

So, the 30-40,000 are representative of Irish Society as a whole? What about the other ~4,500,000? They are just...inconsequential?

You do understand what a representative selection is, don't you?

Do you think the 166 TD's in Dail Eireann articulate the views of each and every citizen?

dashcamdanny

end of the road wrote: »

no they weren't. it was a cross section of people from all walks of life.



no we weren't all at work. many of us were protesting

This is the bit that I have a hard time believing.

Not many of us can afford to take a day off, especially coming up to christmas.

Penny Tration

Pocoyo wrote: »

Im more concerned about the kids that will go hungry because their families cant afford huge water bills.

Yeah, 'cause pissing off thousands of people is the way to fix that. Water meter protest groups are always talking about people needing to unite to beat the government. All they've done today is lost support.

Amirani

Tinkersbell wrote: »

You do understand what a representative selection is, don't you?

Yes. It's not a self-selecting sample of protesters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias